Re: [bolger] Re: Payson's Book (and thanks for suggestions on measurements)
California. I just didn't buy it. Not blaming metric, 2400x1200 does
seem like nice dimensions..
Rick
fountainb@...wrote:
seem like nice dimensions..
Rick
fountainb@...wrote:
> Rick wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > But the metric ply sold here is 2400x1200 so I'd get a short, narrow
> > boat....
>
> Where is here? I once got caught with 2400x1200 (hoop pine marine
> ply in Sydney) and had to shorten the D4 slightly. It is very uncommon
> though, and a bloody stupid thing to do.
>
> Fact is, being metric doesn't make the ply shorter. You could measure
> it in imperial and it would still be short :-)
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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>
>
If you buy the cheap ply , like hoop pine, proof ply and exterior grade ply (all not the ideal ply for boatbuilding except perhaps Hoop Pine) they all come in 2400 x 1200mm sheets.
For the top quality Marine plywoods(Which should be used if you can afford them) like Gaboon AA grade and Gaboon(Okume)BB Grade, Pacific Maple ,Mahogany (Khaya) Ply all these come in 2500 x 1220mm Sheets.
This is in AUSTRALIA so I imagine that these plywoods would be available in New Zealand if the Kiwis could afford them instead of spending all their spare money on vile brews and sheep!(Only joking!) as well as other parts of Austral-Asia (Southern Pacific).
paul42weta <paul42weta@...> wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the ply is quite smart enough to know how long
it is. "Here" is Auckland but most sheets this side of the ditch are
2400x1200. Except for MDF for some reason. And, as it turns out, the
meranti I bought to build the Diablo. However, it shouldn't matter as
the Diablo will fit inside 24x12 sheets anyway.
Just a thought but would you end up with a shorter, narrower boat or
just a smaller one; i.e. the sheets are an inch off all round,
wouldn't the boat also be?
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the top quality Marine plywoods(Which should be used if you can afford them) like Gaboon AA grade and Gaboon(Okume)BB Grade, Pacific Maple ,Mahogany (Khaya) Ply all these come in 2500 x 1220mm Sheets.
This is in AUSTRALIA so I imagine that these plywoods would be available in New Zealand if the Kiwis could afford them instead of spending all their spare money on vile brews and sheep!(Only joking!) as well as other parts of Austral-Asia (Southern Pacific).
paul42weta <paul42weta@...> wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the ply is quite smart enough to know how long
it is. "Here" is Auckland but most sheets this side of the ditch are
2400x1200. Except for MDF for some reason. And, as it turns out, the
meranti I bought to build the Diablo. However, it shouldn't matter as
the Diablo will fit inside 24x12 sheets anyway.
Just a thought but would you end up with a shorter, narrower boat or
just a smaller one; i.e. the sheets are an inch off all round,
wouldn't the boat also be?
> Rick wrote:narrow
> > But the metric ply sold here is 2400x1200 so I'd get a short,
> > boat....uncommon
>
> Where is here? I once got caught with 2400x1200 (hoop pine marine
> ply in Sydney) and had to shorten the D4 slightly. It is very
> though, and a bloody stupid thing to do.measure
>
> Fact is, being metric doesn't make the ply shorter. You could
> it in imperial and it would still be short :-)Bolger rules!!!
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yeah, I don't think the ply is quite smart enough to know how long
it is. "Here" is Auckland but most sheets this side of the ditch are
2400x1200. Except for MDF for some reason. And, as it turns out, the
meranti I bought to build the Diablo. However, it shouldn't matter as
the Diablo will fit inside 24x12 sheets anyway.
Just a thought but would you end up with a shorter, narrower boat or
just a smaller one; i.e. the sheets are an inch off all round,
wouldn't the boat also be?
it is. "Here" is Auckland but most sheets this side of the ditch are
2400x1200. Except for MDF for some reason. And, as it turns out, the
meranti I bought to build the Diablo. However, it shouldn't matter as
the Diablo will fit inside 24x12 sheets anyway.
Just a thought but would you end up with a shorter, narrower boat or
just a smaller one; i.e. the sheets are an inch off all round,
wouldn't the boat also be?
> Rick wrote:narrow
> > But the metric ply sold here is 2400x1200 so I'd get a short,
> > boat....uncommon
>
> Where is here? I once got caught with 2400x1200 (hoop pine marine
> ply in Sydney) and had to shorten the D4 slightly. It is very
> though, and a bloody stupid thing to do.measure
>
> Fact is, being metric doesn't make the ply shorter. You could
> it in imperial and it would still be short :-)
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
Rick wrote:
ply in Sydney) and had to shorten the D4 slightly. It is very uncommon
though, and a bloody stupid thing to do.
Fact is, being metric doesn't make the ply shorter. You could measure
it in imperial and it would still be short :-)
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> But the metric ply sold here is 2400x1200 so I'd get a short, narrowWhere is here? I once got caught with 2400x1200 (hoop pine marine
> boat....
ply in Sydney) and had to shorten the D4 slightly. It is very uncommon
though, and a bloody stupid thing to do.
Fact is, being metric doesn't make the ply shorter. You could measure
it in imperial and it would still be short :-)
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
But the metric ply sold here is 2400x1200 so I'd get a short, narrow
boat....
Rick
boat....
Rick
>
>
> It is not as hard as it seems. Plywood panels are 2440x1220mm.
>
>People around here might appreciateHey, Bruce, congratulations!
>my excitement, just having bought a
>complete set [less three issues] of
>the magazine Small Boat Journal, 73
>issues in all, 1979=>1991.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
Jeff wrote:
would call 3/4 inch boards are 19mm. etc
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> All of our dimensional lumber is based that system.It is not as hard as it seems. Plywood panels are 2440x1220mm. What you
> 4x8 plywood panels, 96 inch 2x4 lumber, etc. Switching
> would be a monumental task.
would call 3/4 inch boards are 19mm. etc
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
Bruce Hallman wrote:
is going to be accurate to fractions of a millimeter.
I find it is best to always work in mm, never in
cm or m. That way you never need to remember the units
or worry about decimal places.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> Half of 13.9 cm is????7cm of course! Nothing I am ever going to build
is going to be accurate to fractions of a millimeter.
I find it is best to always work in mm, never in
cm or m. That way you never need to remember the units
or worry about decimal places.
> Also, approximately, one eighth ofOw! Ow! Stop it! You are hurting my brain!
> an inch equals one hundredth of a foot,
> so when you choose, you can convert
> easily back and forth from a numbering
> system based on 10 when you want.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
--- paul42weta wrote:
you.
Personally, doing mental math in
feet, inches and eights comes
easy to my mind. [after some
practice.]
Base 12, has advantages over base 10
when it comes to common factors
12 is divisible by 1,2,3,4,6,
...while
10 is only divisible by 1 & 5
Half of 3/4 inch is 3/8
half of 3/8 is 3/16
[just double the denominator]
Half of 13.9 cm is????
Also, I find that making an error
by an order of magnitude is much
easier in the metric system.
Also, approximately, one eighth of
an inch equals one hundredth of a foot,
so when you choose, you can convert
easily back and forth from a numbering
system based on 10 when you want.
> working in base 10Certainly, Phil Bolger agrees with
> is too facile?
you.
Personally, doing mental math in
feet, inches and eights comes
easy to my mind. [after some
practice.]
Base 12, has advantages over base 10
when it comes to common factors
12 is divisible by 1,2,3,4,6,
...while
10 is only divisible by 1 & 5
Half of 3/4 inch is 3/8
half of 3/8 is 3/16
[just double the denominator]
Half of 13.9 cm is????
Also, I find that making an error
by an order of magnitude is much
easier in the metric system.
Also, approximately, one eighth of
an inch equals one hundredth of a foot,
so when you choose, you can convert
easily back and forth from a numbering
system based on 10 when you want.
Paul,
We're a mad lot here in the States, to be sure. I taught myself the metric
system as a child as it seemed a more logical system to me. Later, when the
long arm of public education collared me and dragged me off, I was forced to
calculate in eighths and elevenths, not to mention liquid measures! Dear
God, pints and quarts and firkins and such!
I wound up managing ship construction in the Far East, and suddenly I was in
a rational world again (barring the frequent confusion regarding exactly
WHICH 'ton' might be referred to at certain points). Lately, I've been
working on several projects involving designs from a fella you might have
heard of down your way, John Welsford. Once again, I'm happily working in a
world that matches my current number of fingers.... rather than a system
based on some Limey king's thumb joint.
The only sensible advice I can give is to say measure twice AND WRITE IT
DOWN before you cut. Then, when the piece is ludicrously wrong, you can see
whether it was your reading or your measurement that's at fault Painfully,
this is more serious advice than not (experience is a harsh teacher). I've
purchased metric tapes, drywall squares and metal rules (including metric
engineering scaled rules). I advise the same; work solely in the system the
plans are in; conversions on the fly lead to madness and a very expensive
scrap pile.
David Romasco
_____
From: paul42weta [mailto:paul42weta@...]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Payson's Book (and thanks for suggestions on
measurements)
I had wondered about that. I assume he is getting royalties from
book sales anyway. The main reason I'm building from the book is that
if I had to go to a bank to get foreign currency or a bank draft then
send that away and wait for the plans to arrive the fishing season
will be over. I'm building take and tape because of speed and cost.
By the way, I found a tape measure that has feet and inches on one
side, which has made things a lot easier. It's also a good excercise
in mental flexibility, using a different number base. Do tradesmen
use imperial measurements in the US? It is so cumbersome it seems
unlikely, but everything we see in American publications is in feet
and inches. Do you just tolerate the extra cost? Or are American
tradesmen such accomplished mental gymnasts that working in base 10
is too facile?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...>
wrote:
ordered my plans for the Sneakeasy from Mr. Payson, I included a
question in my letter ..
guilty.
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We're a mad lot here in the States, to be sure. I taught myself the metric
system as a child as it seemed a more logical system to me. Later, when the
long arm of public education collared me and dragged me off, I was forced to
calculate in eighths and elevenths, not to mention liquid measures! Dear
God, pints and quarts and firkins and such!
I wound up managing ship construction in the Far East, and suddenly I was in
a rational world again (barring the frequent confusion regarding exactly
WHICH 'ton' might be referred to at certain points). Lately, I've been
working on several projects involving designs from a fella you might have
heard of down your way, John Welsford. Once again, I'm happily working in a
world that matches my current number of fingers.... rather than a system
based on some Limey king's thumb joint.
The only sensible advice I can give is to say measure twice AND WRITE IT
DOWN before you cut. Then, when the piece is ludicrously wrong, you can see
whether it was your reading or your measurement that's at fault Painfully,
this is more serious advice than not (experience is a harsh teacher). I've
purchased metric tapes, drywall squares and metal rules (including metric
engineering scaled rules). I advise the same; work solely in the system the
plans are in; conversions on the fly lead to madness and a very expensive
scrap pile.
David Romasco
_____
From: paul42weta [mailto:paul42weta@...]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Payson's Book (and thanks for suggestions on
measurements)
I had wondered about that. I assume he is getting royalties from
book sales anyway. The main reason I'm building from the book is that
if I had to go to a bank to get foreign currency or a bank draft then
send that away and wait for the plans to arrive the fishing season
will be over. I'm building take and tape because of speed and cost.
By the way, I found a tape measure that has feet and inches on one
side, which has made things a lot easier. It's also a good excercise
in mental flexibility, using a different number base. Do tradesmen
use imperial measurements in the US? It is so cumbersome it seems
unlikely, but everything we see in American publications is in feet
and inches. Do you just tolerate the extra cost? Or are American
tradesmen such accomplished mental gymnasts that working in base 10
is too facile?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...>
wrote:
> The last message reminded be of some postings we had about theethics of building from Mr. Payson's "Instant Boats" book. When I
ordered my plans for the Sneakeasy from Mr. Payson, I included a
question in my letter ..
>Boats book? Or is it appropriate to order the plans from you."
> "Would it be proper to build a boat directly from your Instant
>easier to work with and are to scale."
> His answer:
>
> "Jeff, build from the book if you eyesight is good. Plans are much
>Instant Boats book, can in fact build from the book without feeling
> It was signed H.H. "Dynamite" Payson.
>
> So I would take from his answer that those of us who have the
guilty.
>Bolger rules!!!
> Jeff
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As far as I know, everything here in the USA is in inches and feet. All of our dimensional lumber is based that system. 4x8 plywood panels, 96 inch 2x4 lumber, etc. Switching would be a monumental task.
Being trained into the Imperial measure, I've never thought that it required mental gymnastics to work with but I have to admit, working with a base 10 could be easier.
Jeff
Being trained into the Imperial measure, I've never thought that it required mental gymnastics to work with but I have to admit, working with a base 10 could be easier.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: paul42weta
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:15 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Payson's Book (and thanks for suggestions on measurements)
I had wondered about that. I assume he is getting royalties from
book sales anyway. The main reason I'm building from the book is that
if I had to go to a bank to get foreign currency or a bank draft then
send that away and wait for the plans to arrive the fishing season
will be over. I'm building take and tape because of speed and cost.
By the way, I found a tape measure that has feet and inches on one
side, which has made things a lot easier. It's also a good excercise
in mental flexibility, using a different number base. Do tradesmen
use imperial measurements in the US? It is so cumbersome it seems
unlikely, but everything we see in American publications is in feet
and inches. Do you just tolerate the extra cost? Or are American
tradesmen such accomplished mental gymnasts that working in base 10
is too facile?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...>
wrote:
> The last message reminded be of some postings we had about the
ethics of building from Mr. Payson's "Instant Boats" book. When I
ordered my plans for the Sneakeasy from Mr. Payson, I included a
question in my letter ..
>
> "Would it be proper to build a boat directly from your Instant
Boats book? Or is it appropriate to order the plans from you."
>
> His answer:
>
> "Jeff, build from the book if you eyesight is good. Plans are much
easier to work with and are to scale."
>
> It was signed H.H. "Dynamite" Payson.
>
> So I would take from his answer that those of us who have the
Instant Boats book, can in fact build from the book without feeling
guilty.
>
> Jeff
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had wondered about that. I assume he is getting royalties from
book sales anyway. The main reason I'm building from the book is that
if I had to go to a bank to get foreign currency or a bank draft then
send that away and wait for the plans to arrive the fishing season
will be over. I'm building take and tape because of speed and cost.
By the way, I found a tape measure that has feet and inches on one
side, which has made things a lot easier. It's also a good excercise
in mental flexibility, using a different number base. Do tradesmen
use imperial measurements in the US? It is so cumbersome it seems
unlikely, but everything we see in American publications is in feet
and inches. Do you just tolerate the extra cost? Or are American
tradesmen such accomplished mental gymnasts that working in base 10
is too facile?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...>
wrote:
ordered my plans for the Sneakeasy from Mr. Payson, I included a
question in my letter ..
guilty.
book sales anyway. The main reason I'm building from the book is that
if I had to go to a bank to get foreign currency or a bank draft then
send that away and wait for the plans to arrive the fishing season
will be over. I'm building take and tape because of speed and cost.
By the way, I found a tape measure that has feet and inches on one
side, which has made things a lot easier. It's also a good excercise
in mental flexibility, using a different number base. Do tradesmen
use imperial measurements in the US? It is so cumbersome it seems
unlikely, but everything we see in American publications is in feet
and inches. Do you just tolerate the extra cost? Or are American
tradesmen such accomplished mental gymnasts that working in base 10
is too facile?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...>
wrote:
> The last message reminded be of some postings we had about theethics of building from Mr. Payson's "Instant Boats" book. When I
ordered my plans for the Sneakeasy from Mr. Payson, I included a
question in my letter ..
>Boats book? Or is it appropriate to order the plans from you."
> "Would it be proper to build a boat directly from your Instant
>easier to work with and are to scale."
> His answer:
>
> "Jeff, build from the book if you eyesight is good. Plans are much
>Instant Boats book, can in fact build from the book without feeling
> It was signed H.H. "Dynamite" Payson.
>
> So I would take from his answer that those of us who have the
guilty.
>
> Jeff
People around here might appreciate
my excitement, just having bought a
complete set [less three issues] of
the magazine Small Boat Journal, 73
issues in all, 1979=>1991.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3580169931
my excitement, just having bought a
complete set [less three issues] of
the magazine Small Boat Journal, 73
issues in all, 1979=>1991.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3580169931
The last message reminded be of some postings we had about the ethics of building from Mr. Payson's "Instant Boats" book. When I ordered my plans for the Sneakeasy from Mr. Payson, I included a question in my letter ..
"Would it be proper to build a boat directly from your Instant Boats book? Or is it appropriate to order the plans from you."
His answer:
"Jeff, build from the book if you eyesight is good. Plans are much easier to work with and are to scale."
It was signed H.H. "Dynamite" Payson.
So I would take from his answer that those of us who have the Instant Boats book, can in fact build from the book without feeling guilty.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Would it be proper to build a boat directly from your Instant Boats book? Or is it appropriate to order the plans from you."
His answer:
"Jeff, build from the book if you eyesight is good. Plans are much easier to work with and are to scale."
It was signed H.H. "Dynamite" Payson.
So I would take from his answer that those of us who have the Instant Boats book, can in fact build from the book without feeling guilty.
Jeff
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