Re: [bolger] Re: English vs Metric
I'm surprised that there is a question about obtaining scales with the
appropriate markings. MSC is just one of a variety of vendors of "stuff" to
keep a tool room or factory running. On their catalog pages devoted to
steel rules there is:
Graduations (note: the fractions refer to parts of an inch)
3R 32nds, 64ths, 10ths, 50ths
4R 8ths, 16ths, 32nds, 64ths
5R 32nds, 64ths, 10ths, 100ths
6R 50ths, 50ths, 10ths, 10ths
9R 64ths only, 16ths, 32nds
16R 32nds, 64ths, 50ths, 100ths
ENG/MET 32nds, 64ths, mm, 1/2mm
DEC/MET1 10ths, 50ths, mm, 1/2mm
DEC/MET2 10ths, 100ths, mm, 1/2mm
METRIC mm, 1/2mm, mm, 1/2mm
These are pretty standard reference designators for scales which come in
flexible and rigid and in lengths from 3" to over 8'. (I have an 8' yard
stick which is of great use in marking out panels, once one learns to use a
spring clamp on the far end.) I like 5R for my 6" SS fingernail.
As for "why," the answer is that for government/military procurements, the
customer provides a "data item description" which specifies in great detail
how the documentation should be prepared. If the DID says metric, that's
what they get. If it says furlongs and varas, we can do that too.
Note that a civil engineer (bridges, roads, dams, sewers) is much more
likely to be calculating the stress/strain on the scantlings and the decimal
fractions of an inch make it easier to key into his calculator or find on
his slide rule. My impression is that naval architects use "tradition!" at
least for small boats. The load factors are really obtuse.
Roger
derbyrm at starband.net
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
appropriate markings. MSC is just one of a variety of vendors of "stuff" to
keep a tool room or factory running. On their catalog pages devoted to
steel rules there is:
Graduations (note: the fractions refer to parts of an inch)
3R 32nds, 64ths, 10ths, 50ths
4R 8ths, 16ths, 32nds, 64ths
5R 32nds, 64ths, 10ths, 100ths
6R 50ths, 50ths, 10ths, 10ths
9R 64ths only, 16ths, 32nds
16R 32nds, 64ths, 50ths, 100ths
ENG/MET 32nds, 64ths, mm, 1/2mm
DEC/MET1 10ths, 50ths, mm, 1/2mm
DEC/MET2 10ths, 100ths, mm, 1/2mm
METRIC mm, 1/2mm, mm, 1/2mm
These are pretty standard reference designators for scales which come in
flexible and rigid and in lengths from 3" to over 8'. (I have an 8' yard
stick which is of great use in marking out panels, once one learns to use a
spring clamp on the far end.) I like 5R for my 6" SS fingernail.
As for "why," the answer is that for government/military procurements, the
customer provides a "data item description" which specifies in great detail
how the documentation should be prepared. If the DID says metric, that's
what they get. If it says furlongs and varas, we can do that too.
Note that a civil engineer (bridges, roads, dams, sewers) is much more
likely to be calculating the stress/strain on the scantlings and the decimal
fractions of an inch make it easier to key into his calculator or find on
his slide rule. My impression is that naval architects use "tradition!" at
least for small boats. The load factors are really obtuse.
Roger
derbyrm at starband.net
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gavin Atkin" <gavinatkin@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
> > > I suspect in the US, the only time tenths of inches were
> > > ever used was in bridge construction - no, I have no
> > > idea why. Needless to say converting tenths to fractions
> > > can only be approximate but that's just loose enough to
> > > fuzz layouts.
> > > Any opinions?
>
> My opinion is that I've tripped over this stuff time and time again
> and really have no simple answer. An Englishman, I have tended to
> draw my few small boats in inches and tenths (i) because my American
> software does that by default and does it well and (ii) because it's
> close to second nature for us. Even now, years after official
> metrication, every child's ruler here has inches and fractions,
> inches and tenths, and centimetres and millimetres, and even metres
> if they are long enough.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
and really have no simple answer. An Englishman, I have tended to
draw my few small boats in inches and tenths (i) because my American
software does that by default and does it well and (ii) because it's
close to second nature for us. Even now, years after official
metrication, every child's ruler here has inches and fractions,
inches and tenths, and centimetres and millimetres, and even metres
if they are long enough.
Now, this might be ok for many Brits, but it causes many people in
the US to worry about where they can get inches and tenths rulers,
and seems to give traditionalists in particular the fully developed
devil-invoking collywobbles. What's more, this feet and inches stuff
is no use at all to our European cousins, who are out there in
numbers but (i) don't seem to 'get' inches at all, and who in any
case work with plywood of different dimensions. That's a problem, I'm
sure you will agree.
I haven't got the energy to re-dimension everything for each of these
three 'markets' for no fee (I haven't even thought about the other
units that may be known around the world), but some of my drawings
have been converted in one direction or another, sometimes with a
little help from one or two friends. In doing so, I think the best
technique is clearly to open the dxf files I supply using a CAD
system, which should produce rather fairer approximations than
converting the fractions direct - that usually seems to work and is
clearly fine for stitch and glue/tack and tape/whatever you call it,
but I'm sure it must be fuzzy from the perspective of a master
boatbuilder.
Luckily, I'm never going to be one of those...
Gav
> > I suspect in the US, the only timecan
> > tenths of inches were ever used was in bridge construction - no, I
> > have no idea why. Needless to say converting tenths to fractions
> > only be approximate but that's just loose enough to fuzz layouts.Any
> > opinions?My opinion is that I've tripped over this stuff time and time again
and really have no simple answer. An Englishman, I have tended to
draw my few small boats in inches and tenths (i) because my American
software does that by default and does it well and (ii) because it's
close to second nature for us. Even now, years after official
metrication, every child's ruler here has inches and fractions,
inches and tenths, and centimetres and millimetres, and even metres
if they are long enough.
Now, this might be ok for many Brits, but it causes many people in
the US to worry about where they can get inches and tenths rulers,
and seems to give traditionalists in particular the fully developed
devil-invoking collywobbles. What's more, this feet and inches stuff
is no use at all to our European cousins, who are out there in
numbers but (i) don't seem to 'get' inches at all, and who in any
case work with plywood of different dimensions. That's a problem, I'm
sure you will agree.
I haven't got the energy to re-dimension everything for each of these
three 'markets' for no fee (I haven't even thought about the other
units that may be known around the world), but some of my drawings
have been converted in one direction or another, sometimes with a
little help from one or two friends. In doing so, I think the best
technique is clearly to open the dxf files I supply using a CAD
system, which should produce rather fairer approximations than
converting the fractions direct - that usually seems to work and is
clearly fine for stitch and glue/tack and tape/whatever you call it,
but I'm sure it must be fuzzy from the perspective of a master
boatbuilder.
Luckily, I'm never going to be one of those...
Gav
I hear you Bryant, what's up with decimal inches....
I recently bought a set of plans done in imperial feet and decimal
inches... A given half breath is "27.17", which I work out to be two
feet, three inches, and 17/100ths of an inch.... or in my mind, pretty
close to "2 - 3 - 1+" (two feet, three inches, 1/8" plus leave the
line) Not sure if I have that right? But if I do, I certainly don't
have a measuring stick with 27.17 etched on it, so I guess I convert the
whole table...
So what's the easy way to convert decimal inches to eighths of an inch?
Then in some places he uses decimal feet, telling me I have to multiply
the decimal feet by 12 to get inches. Hasn't a foot been 12 inches for a
long time now.......?
There has got to be a reason other than chaos that this was done...
Anyone know why??
If not, I'm ready for that imperial measure of rum from that decimal
bottle....
Thanks,
Rick
b_owen_ca wrote:
I recently bought a set of plans done in imperial feet and decimal
inches... A given half breath is "27.17", which I work out to be two
feet, three inches, and 17/100ths of an inch.... or in my mind, pretty
close to "2 - 3 - 1+" (two feet, three inches, 1/8" plus leave the
line) Not sure if I have that right? But if I do, I certainly don't
have a measuring stick with 27.17 etched on it, so I guess I convert the
whole table...
So what's the easy way to convert decimal inches to eighths of an inch?
Then in some places he uses decimal feet, telling me I have to multiply
the decimal feet by 12 to get inches. Hasn't a foot been 12 inches for a
long time now.......?
There has got to be a reason other than chaos that this was done...
Anyone know why??
If not, I'm ready for that imperial measure of rum from that decimal
bottle....
Thanks,
Rick
b_owen_ca wrote:
>
>
> The measuring question I have is this. I've some Brit developed boat
> plans that are in TENTHs of inches.
> I suspect in the US, the only time
> tenths of inches were ever used was in bridge construction - no, I
> have no idea why. Needless to say converting tenths to fractions can
> only be approximate but that's just loose enough to fuzz layouts. Any
> opinions?
>
> Bryant - who can order a 1 1/2 oz shot out of a 750 ml bottle of rum!
>
>
It's that 2-8-3 that makes laying out so easy. At least that's what the
old Yankee taught me when I was a kid....
Three simple whole numbers, no fractions, no decimals to deal with. ....
Like you say the first is feet, most can grasp that. The second number,
inches, can only be from 0 to 11, not so bad. The third, eighths, (ya
it's a fraction, but you don't have to explain the concept of fractions
to the augerhead with the rule, just tell him to count the little lines
which can only be from 0 to 7) and as most measurements are shorter than
12 feet, (anything longer than that means get out the bosses long tape,
and he's the only one who can use that), the only numbers you need
formal schooling on are the whole number from zero to twelve... Even
with only ten fingers I can deal with that...
Sometimes a little + is tacked on after the last number, I was taught
that means instead of cutting on the line, leave it... A saw kerf being
1/8", leaving, rather than splitting the line adds a 1/16". Again the
crew doesn't need an education in fractions, just say leave the line......
Never had to halve a given dimension, so not sure what that fuss is
about.. The usual thing is a need to double the half breaths... doubling
a 2, an 8, and a 3 is something most can do in their heads. I suppose
some might have trouble with how many inches is sixteen inches.... :-)
Rick
Jeff wrote:
old Yankee taught me when I was a kid....
Three simple whole numbers, no fractions, no decimals to deal with. ....
Like you say the first is feet, most can grasp that. The second number,
inches, can only be from 0 to 11, not so bad. The third, eighths, (ya
it's a fraction, but you don't have to explain the concept of fractions
to the augerhead with the rule, just tell him to count the little lines
which can only be from 0 to 7) and as most measurements are shorter than
12 feet, (anything longer than that means get out the bosses long tape,
and he's the only one who can use that), the only numbers you need
formal schooling on are the whole number from zero to twelve... Even
with only ten fingers I can deal with that...
Sometimes a little + is tacked on after the last number, I was taught
that means instead of cutting on the line, leave it... A saw kerf being
1/8", leaving, rather than splitting the line adds a 1/16". Again the
crew doesn't need an education in fractions, just say leave the line......
Never had to halve a given dimension, so not sure what that fuss is
about.. The usual thing is a need to double the half breaths... doubling
a 2, an 8, and a 3 is something most can do in their heads. I suppose
some might have trouble with how many inches is sixteen inches.... :-)
Rick
Jeff wrote:
> A table of offsets or plan measures are usually listed as (
> feet,inches,eighths.)
>
> 2.8.3 would mean 2 feet, 8 inches, and 3/8 inch.
>
>
Great discussion - I agree with the line of thought that says use
the measure that your plans are based on (in Australia, I'm of an
age where I can still remember enough of feet and inches to be
comfortable) but the bit that bites us here from time to time is
that some varieties (usually the ones you want to use but based on
where they are manufactured)) of plywood are being manufactured in
2400 by 1200 millimeter sheets - depending on plans this can be a
pain in that the small amount of extra you get in an imperial 8 by 4
feet sheet may be needed to keep faith with the plan or force you to
plan the use of additional sheets. I've got a good stock of
imperial/metric tape measures..........
the measure that your plans are based on (in Australia, I'm of an
age where I can still remember enough of feet and inches to be
comfortable) but the bit that bites us here from time to time is
that some varieties (usually the ones you want to use but based on
where they are manufactured)) of plywood are being manufactured in
2400 by 1200 millimeter sheets - depending on plans this can be a
pain in that the small amount of extra you get in an imperial 8 by 4
feet sheet may be needed to keep faith with the plan or force you to
plan the use of additional sheets. I've got a good stock of
imperial/metric tape measures..........
This subject seems to have generated some heat but I guess that's to
be expected. In my original post I did mention that I have found a
tape measure with inches on it (an '8m' one though) and no longer
have to battle with conversions.
But a couple of points:
- metric is not a French system, it is handled by the ISO. The metre
has been redefined many times.
-America has been metric for nearly 150 years; all your weights and
measures are described in metric terms, against metric standards.
I have worked with both, and with the Japanese traditional measuring
system (which is decimal based, they went metric for business/
internationalization reasons). We still commonly use many traditional
measures, my mother needs to know big our new baby is in pounds for
example.
I have nothing against English measurements I'm as happy to say I'm
six foot as 182cm, but as for 2 sets of wrenches? Why? Just don't buy
an American car and the problem goes away. Perhaps that's why they
have been out of the market for so long. 1/4-20 bolt is the world
standard in what parallel universe? Framing timbers sizes don't need
to change- 25mm to the inch is an adequate approximation. The timber
doesn't know how big it is, and it will change laterally with age
anyway.
As I said, building houses cured me of feet and inches- try this,
you have to cut out a wall to fit a window and need to add some
things up to get the size right, then divide by six to get the number
of studs, etc. To do that with feet and inches you would need a slide
rule, in metric, a pencil. No draughtsman required.
Decimal is not the be all and end all. My father still happily
builds his boats in feet and inches, but I bet I can tell you what
half of 13.9 cm is quicker than you can work out half of 1' 7" 3/16.
And to the boatbuilder- one litre weighs one kilo, one metre weighs
one ton(ne) (fresh water, but a very useful rule of thumb all the
same. So engineers also do everything in mm?
And another thing.. whats that.. something about a dead horse?
Anyway, Paul Crawford
be expected. In my original post I did mention that I have found a
tape measure with inches on it (an '8m' one though) and no longer
have to battle with conversions.
But a couple of points:
- metric is not a French system, it is handled by the ISO. The metre
has been redefined many times.
-America has been metric for nearly 150 years; all your weights and
measures are described in metric terms, against metric standards.
I have worked with both, and with the Japanese traditional measuring
system (which is decimal based, they went metric for business/
internationalization reasons). We still commonly use many traditional
measures, my mother needs to know big our new baby is in pounds for
example.
I have nothing against English measurements I'm as happy to say I'm
six foot as 182cm, but as for 2 sets of wrenches? Why? Just don't buy
an American car and the problem goes away. Perhaps that's why they
have been out of the market for so long. 1/4-20 bolt is the world
standard in what parallel universe? Framing timbers sizes don't need
to change- 25mm to the inch is an adequate approximation. The timber
doesn't know how big it is, and it will change laterally with age
anyway.
As I said, building houses cured me of feet and inches- try this,
you have to cut out a wall to fit a window and need to add some
things up to get the size right, then divide by six to get the number
of studs, etc. To do that with feet and inches you would need a slide
rule, in metric, a pencil. No draughtsman required.
Decimal is not the be all and end all. My father still happily
builds his boats in feet and inches, but I bet I can tell you what
half of 13.9 cm is quicker than you can work out half of 1' 7" 3/16.
And to the boatbuilder- one litre weighs one kilo, one metre weighs
one ton(ne) (fresh water, but a very useful rule of thumb all the
same. So engineers also do everything in mm?
And another thing.. whats that.. something about a dead horse?
Anyway, Paul Crawford
Hugo
I'm 46 and was in school when the change over happened and remember you
couldn't buy a imperial ruler or tape measure for several years , a bit of a
enforced change over , I stiff need to work in feet and inches to know how
big something is , while I know that 188cm is 6'2" I only know that because
that is my height , if there is a report on TV to look out for a individual
170 cm tall then I have no idea , but it probably wouldn't do any good as
they never tell you if the individual is white , black or brindle , I still
tend to think in feet and inches but work in metric because it's easier , I
too am a shooter and while 2800 fps means some thing to me 853 mps wouldn't
mean any thing , kph means more to me than mph but miles per gallon I can
understand while litres per 100 km means nothing , so I have to work in both
systems , very annoying
David Wallace
I'm 46 and was in school when the change over happened and remember you
couldn't buy a imperial ruler or tape measure for several years , a bit of a
enforced change over , I stiff need to work in feet and inches to know how
big something is , while I know that 188cm is 6'2" I only know that because
that is my height , if there is a report on TV to look out for a individual
170 cm tall then I have no idea , but it probably wouldn't do any good as
they never tell you if the individual is white , black or brindle , I still
tend to think in feet and inches but work in metric because it's easier , I
too am a shooter and while 2800 fps means some thing to me 853 mps wouldn't
mean any thing , kph means more to me than mph but miles per gallon I can
understand while litres per 100 km means nothing , so I have to work in both
systems , very annoying
David Wallace
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugo Tyson" <hhetyson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: English vs Metric
> While I'm relatively young so to speak (35) and live in Australia which
had adopted the metric system before I was born .I still prefer using the
imperial system as many boat plans, especially older ones are in feet,
inches and eighths, also I'm into shooting and generally speaking the
majority of firearms specifications and calibres are still in imperial
measurements. I find myself re calculating measurements from metric to
imperial for just about anything, distances, people's height, weight, speeds
etc.Thats the influence of having a father who always had and has a boat
book(Mainly Bolger) or a plan always out to look at and dream!
>
> Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:I'm old enogh to have been
edu-ma-kated in Imperial, yet I was a young
> adult when Canada switched to metric.
>
> I still think in inches, pounds and miles while my son wonders what
> the heck I'm talking about.
>
> John Welsford's Seagull was my first experience building in metric, on
> imperial sheets of plywood and dimensional lumber. It was fast, and
> fun, and I ended up with a 1" twist in my beloved "Twisted Seagull".
> Go figure!
>
> Thank goodness it doesn't seem to have affected her rowing
> performance. Thanks to a skeg with a starboard twist.
>
> The danger, I think, lies in the converting.
>
> If'n yer' gonna' build in inches, use an imperial ruler.
>
> In metric, use a metric scale.
>
> Forget convering.
>
> The main thing to keep in mind is the end use, the fun, the
> water-borne days, etc. Not the scale.
>
> Bruce Hector
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
While I'm relatively young so to speak (35) and live in Australia which had adopted the metric system before I was born .I still prefer using the imperial system as many boat plans, especially older ones are in feet, inches and eighths, also I'm into shooting and generally speaking the majority of firearms specifications and calibres are still in imperial measurements. I find myself re calculating measurements from metric to imperial for just about anything, distances, people's height, weight, speeds etc.Thats the influence of having a father who always had and has a boat book(Mainly Bolger) or a plan always out to look at and dream!
Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:I'm old enogh to have been edu-ma-kated in Imperial, yet I was a young
adult when Canada switched to metric.
I still think in inches, pounds and miles while my son wonders what
the heck I'm talking about.
John Welsford's Seagull was my first experience building in metric, on
imperial sheets of plywood and dimensional lumber. It was fast, and
fun, and I ended up with a 1" twist in my beloved "Twisted Seagull".
Go figure!
Thank goodness it doesn't seem to have affected her rowing
performance. Thanks to a skeg with a starboard twist.
The danger, I think, lies in the converting.
If'n yer' gonna' build in inches, use an imperial ruler.
In metric, use a metric scale.
Forget convering.
The main thing to keep in mind is the end use, the fun, the
water-borne days, etc. Not the scale.
Bruce Hector
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:I'm old enogh to have been edu-ma-kated in Imperial, yet I was a young
adult when Canada switched to metric.
I still think in inches, pounds and miles while my son wonders what
the heck I'm talking about.
John Welsford's Seagull was my first experience building in metric, on
imperial sheets of plywood and dimensional lumber. It was fast, and
fun, and I ended up with a 1" twist in my beloved "Twisted Seagull".
Go figure!
Thank goodness it doesn't seem to have affected her rowing
performance. Thanks to a skeg with a starboard twist.
The danger, I think, lies in the converting.
If'n yer' gonna' build in inches, use an imperial ruler.
In metric, use a metric scale.
Forget convering.
The main thing to keep in mind is the end use, the fun, the
water-borne days, etc. Not the scale.
Bruce Hector
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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- New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm old enogh to have been edu-ma-kated in Imperial, yet I was a young
adult when Canada switched to metric.
I still think in inches, pounds and miles while my son wonders what
the heck I'm talking about.
John Welsford's Seagull was my first experience building in metric, on
imperial sheets of plywood and dimensional lumber. It was fast, and
fun, and I ended up with a 1" twist in my beloved "Twisted Seagull".
Go figure!
Thank goodness it doesn't seem to have affected her rowing
performance. Thanks to a skeg with a starboard twist.
The danger, I think, lies in the converting.
If'n yer' gonna' build in inches, use an imperial ruler.
In metric, use a metric scale.
Forget convering.
The main thing to keep in mind is the end use, the fun, the
water-borne days, etc. Not the scale.
Bruce Hector
adult when Canada switched to metric.
I still think in inches, pounds and miles while my son wonders what
the heck I'm talking about.
John Welsford's Seagull was my first experience building in metric, on
imperial sheets of plywood and dimensional lumber. It was fast, and
fun, and I ended up with a 1" twist in my beloved "Twisted Seagull".
Go figure!
Thank goodness it doesn't seem to have affected her rowing
performance. Thanks to a skeg with a starboard twist.
The danger, I think, lies in the converting.
If'n yer' gonna' build in inches, use an imperial ruler.
In metric, use a metric scale.
Forget convering.
The main thing to keep in mind is the end use, the fun, the
water-borne days, etc. Not the scale.
Bruce Hector
Canada, like many of the other "colonies" has switched from Imperial
to some form of Metric (SI) but unlike most of the others like
Australia and New Zealand, we seem to be stuck in some kind of
transitional state. Maybe it's because we're nominally a bilingual
country that we became bimeasurement. ALL my construction measuring
devices - like tape measures - are in both Imperial and SI scale.
Building material is still Imperial for stock lumber but plywood and
other sheeting is starting to go metric. On a practical level I tend
to stay with inches but I've been known to plan out and work in
Metric on occasion. Chacun a son gout as some of us say here.
The measuring question I have is this. I've some Brit developed boat
plans that are in TENTHs of inches. Is this tenths common over there?
AFAIK over here in Canada, and I suspect in the US, the only time
tenths of inches were ever used was in bridge construction - no, I
have no idea why. Needless to say converting tenths to fractions can
only be approximate but that's just loose enough to fuzz layouts. Any
opinions?
Bryant - who can order a 1 1/2 oz shot out of a 750 ml bottle of rum!
to some form of Metric (SI) but unlike most of the others like
Australia and New Zealand, we seem to be stuck in some kind of
transitional state. Maybe it's because we're nominally a bilingual
country that we became bimeasurement. ALL my construction measuring
devices - like tape measures - are in both Imperial and SI scale.
Building material is still Imperial for stock lumber but plywood and
other sheeting is starting to go metric. On a practical level I tend
to stay with inches but I've been known to plan out and work in
Metric on occasion. Chacun a son gout as some of us say here.
The measuring question I have is this. I've some Brit developed boat
plans that are in TENTHs of inches. Is this tenths common over there?
AFAIK over here in Canada, and I suspect in the US, the only time
tenths of inches were ever used was in bridge construction - no, I
have no idea why. Needless to say converting tenths to fractions can
only be approximate but that's just loose enough to fuzz layouts. Any
opinions?
Bryant - who can order a 1 1/2 oz shot out of a 750 ml bottle of rum!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mike Culp <mmsculp@y...> wrote:
> I have lived and worked for years at a time in both systems.
Niether is
> perfect, but either will work. The real problem - worldwide - is
that the two
> systems are being used concurrently. That is a pain.
I have lived and worked for years at a time in both systems. Niether is
perfect, but either will work. The real problem - worldwide - is that the two
systems are being used concurrently. That is a pain.
I agree the easiest method for the present is to buy the correct measurement
instrument and live with the change.
--- Roger Derby <derbyrm@...> wrote:
perfect, but either will work. The real problem - worldwide - is that the two
systems are being used concurrently. That is a pain.
I agree the easiest method for the present is to buy the correct measurement
instrument and live with the change.
--- Roger Derby <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> Arrgh! Here come the French again. Next we know, the prime meridian will
> be moved from Greenwich to Paris.
>
> I had to learn all of the several metric systems while studying physics in
> the 1950s. CGS, MKS, MKS rationalized, and a couple of other variations on
> the MKS system. Granted the variations in the MKS systems are in such
> things as the permittivity of free space and/or the relationship of MMF &
> flux, it still didn't ever make sense to me that we should STANDARDIZE on a
> system which had not written the needed standards. (Roll pins and circlips
> are two that were missing when needed.) To me, standardization allows
> reaching into the scrap box and finding a part that will fit. The 1/4-20
> bolt and nut are THE standard for the world.
>
> The drive for metrification has cost us all a lot of money (two sets of
> wrenches as a minimum) and it is a pain.
>
> Note that we do not use the "Imperial" system. We use the American system;
> e.g. the ASME for mechanical stuff. (Yes, I do still have a couple of
> Whitworth sockets needed for a 1958 MG with Lucas electrical parts.) Most
> of the Brits came around in the late 1940s to the Unified Standard for
> threads.
>
> As a designer of computer systems for 35 years, I worked with many number
> bases. One tenth is an irrational number to the average computer. I do a
> much better job of doubling and halving for most calculations, and the
> omnipresent calculator or spreadsheet does the rest.
>
> If you're going to insist on a purely decimal system, perhaps we should
> convert the clocks, calendars and lat./long. as well? But then, we're
> really talking about French pride and not rationality; otherwise the meter
> would have been redefined once the true size of the earth was determined.
> (The official survey party made a serious error and Paris hushed it up for
> many, many years.)
>
> Rant off. Sorry.
>
> Roger
> derbyrm at starband.net
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cha62759@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:26 PM
> Subject: [bolger] English vs Metric
>
>
> > There was an effort some years ago to start the US towards metric.
> > Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
> > to start teaching metrics.
> >
> > Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
> > while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
> > crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
> >
> > A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
> > oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
> > the hair when doing carpentry.
> >
> > Maybe in the next millenium.
> >
> > Bob Chamberland
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
A table of offsets or plan measures are usually listed as ( feet,inches,eighths.)
2.8.3 would mean 2 feet, 8 inches, and 3/8 inch.
1/8 is .125 decimal. so it's 24 + 8 + .375 = 32.375 gives your the inches in decimal form.
Multiply the inches by 2.54 to get CM or 82.23 CM.
With just a little practice, you can get the inches without a calculator then and multiply by 2.54 and you have CM.
Jeff
2.8.3 would mean 2 feet, 8 inches, and 3/8 inch.
1/8 is .125 decimal. so it's 24 + 8 + .375 = 32.375 gives your the inches in decimal form.
Multiply the inches by 2.54 to get CM or 82.23 CM.
With just a little practice, you can get the inches without a calculator then and multiply by 2.54 and you have CM.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: David Romasco
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] English vs Metric
In 1973, PCB wrote: "If anybody brought up on metrics badly wants to use one
of the English-scale plans, I'd say it will work better to buy an English
scale and puzzle out how to use it long enough to get the lofting done full
size, rather than try to translate a table of offsets." Despite such
archaic references as 'table of offsets' (in the same piece, he mentioned an
ancient ritual calculating stick, referred to at the time as a 'slide
rule'), his advice is still sound. Stay in the system the plans are drawn
in!
I, too, have a trick calculator that's intended for conversions and I use it
frequently. One of my trickiest tools was one I found by accident: it's a
digital caliper from Harbor Freight. I was lazy when I ordered it and just
picked a 12" model. Turned out it's much too large for convenient thickness
measurement, which was what I really wanted it for, but I found that it's a
dandy tool for measuring and marking up to that 12" limit. What makes it so
convenient is that it switches from Imperial to metric at the tap of a
button. I slide it until I get the measure I want, lock the slide, and mark
the piece. Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a tape measure, but
this works for me. Just a suggestion to all....
David Romasco
_____
From:cha62759@...[mailto:cha62759@...]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] English vs Metric
There was an effort some years ago to start the US towards metric.
Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
to start teaching metrics.
Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
the hair when doing carpentry.
Maybe in the next millenium.
Bob Chamberland
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Arrgh! Here come the French again. Next we know, the prime meridian will
be moved from Greenwich to Paris.
I had to learn all of the several metric systems while studying physics in
the 1950s. CGS, MKS, MKS rationalized, and a couple of other variations on
the MKS system. Granted the variations in the MKS systems are in such
things as the permittivity of free space and/or the relationship of MMF &
flux, it still didn't ever make sense to me that we should STANDARDIZE on a
system which had not written the needed standards. (Roll pins and circlips
are two that were missing when needed.) To me, standardization allows
reaching into the scrap box and finding a part that will fit. The 1/4-20
bolt and nut are THE standard for the world.
The drive for metrification has cost us all a lot of money (two sets of
wrenches as a minimum) and it is a pain.
Note that we do not use the "Imperial" system. We use the American system;
e.g. the ASME for mechanical stuff. (Yes, I do still have a couple of
Whitworth sockets needed for a 1958 MG with Lucas electrical parts.) Most
of the Brits came around in the late 1940s to the Unified Standard for
threads.
As a designer of computer systems for 35 years, I worked with many number
bases. One tenth is an irrational number to the average computer. I do a
much better job of doubling and halving for most calculations, and the
omnipresent calculator or spreadsheet does the rest.
If you're going to insist on a purely decimal system, perhaps we should
convert the clocks, calendars and lat./long. as well? But then, we're
really talking about French pride and not rationality; otherwise the meter
would have been redefined once the true size of the earth was determined.
(The official survey party made a serious error and Paris hushed it up for
many, many years.)
Rant off. Sorry.
Roger
derbyrm at starband.net
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
be moved from Greenwich to Paris.
I had to learn all of the several metric systems while studying physics in
the 1950s. CGS, MKS, MKS rationalized, and a couple of other variations on
the MKS system. Granted the variations in the MKS systems are in such
things as the permittivity of free space and/or the relationship of MMF &
flux, it still didn't ever make sense to me that we should STANDARDIZE on a
system which had not written the needed standards. (Roll pins and circlips
are two that were missing when needed.) To me, standardization allows
reaching into the scrap box and finding a part that will fit. The 1/4-20
bolt and nut are THE standard for the world.
The drive for metrification has cost us all a lot of money (two sets of
wrenches as a minimum) and it is a pain.
Note that we do not use the "Imperial" system. We use the American system;
e.g. the ASME for mechanical stuff. (Yes, I do still have a couple of
Whitworth sockets needed for a 1958 MG with Lucas electrical parts.) Most
of the Brits came around in the late 1940s to the Unified Standard for
threads.
As a designer of computer systems for 35 years, I worked with many number
bases. One tenth is an irrational number to the average computer. I do a
much better job of doubling and halving for most calculations, and the
omnipresent calculator or spreadsheet does the rest.
If you're going to insist on a purely decimal system, perhaps we should
convert the clocks, calendars and lat./long. as well? But then, we're
really talking about French pride and not rationality; otherwise the meter
would have been redefined once the true size of the earth was determined.
(The official survey party made a serious error and Paris hushed it up for
many, many years.)
Rant off. Sorry.
Roger
derbyrm at starband.net
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <cha62759@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:26 PM
Subject: [bolger] English vs Metric
> There was an effort some years ago to start the US towards metric.
> Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
> to start teaching metrics.
>
> Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
> while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
> crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
>
> A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
> oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
> the hair when doing carpentry.
>
> Maybe in the next millenium.
>
> Bob Chamberland
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
I have a house builder's calculator that among other functions
will convert English measurements to metric and vice versa. I
don't know the cost since I received it as a gift. One could always
measure the dimensions on the drawing in metric and multiply
by the scale ratio if one didn't like working in fourths and eighths,
etc. However, it would certainly make the job easier to locate a
tape measure for the English or Imperial system. Bolger drew
the Dakota plans in metric, so I had to order a metric tape
measure. Finally found one in the Sears catalog. I do like the
metric system for boat building.
Vince Chew
will convert English measurements to metric and vice versa. I
don't know the cost since I received it as a gift. One could always
measure the dimensions on the drawing in metric and multiply
by the scale ratio if one didn't like working in fourths and eighths,
etc. However, it would certainly make the job easier to locate a
tape measure for the English or Imperial system. Bolger drew
the Dakota plans in metric, so I had to order a metric tape
measure. Finally found one in the Sears catalog. I do like the
metric system for boat building.
Vince Chew
In 1973, PCB wrote: "If anybody brought up on metrics badly wants to use one
of the English-scale plans, I'd say it will work better to buy an English
scale and puzzle out how to use it long enough to get the lofting done full
size, rather than try to translate a table of offsets." Despite such
archaic references as 'table of offsets' (in the same piece, he mentioned an
ancient ritual calculating stick, referred to at the time as a 'slide
rule'), his advice is still sound. Stay in the system the plans are drawn
in!
I, too, have a trick calculator that's intended for conversions and I use it
frequently. One of my trickiest tools was one I found by accident: it's a
digital caliper from Harbor Freight. I was lazy when I ordered it and just
picked a 12" model. Turned out it's much too large for convenient thickness
measurement, which was what I really wanted it for, but I found that it's a
dandy tool for measuring and marking up to that 12" limit. What makes it so
convenient is that it switches from Imperial to metric at the tap of a
button. I slide it until I get the measure I want, lock the slide, and mark
the piece. Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a tape measure, but
this works for me. Just a suggestion to all....
David Romasco
_____
From:cha62759@...[mailto:cha62759@...]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] English vs Metric
There was an effort some years ago to start the US towards metric.
Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
to start teaching metrics.
Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
the hair when doing carpentry.
Maybe in the next millenium.
Bob Chamberland
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cogaeut/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1074633993/A=1945637/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Def
ault?mqso=60178397&partid=4116730> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1945637/rand=329134292>
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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of the English-scale plans, I'd say it will work better to buy an English
scale and puzzle out how to use it long enough to get the lofting done full
size, rather than try to translate a table of offsets." Despite such
archaic references as 'table of offsets' (in the same piece, he mentioned an
ancient ritual calculating stick, referred to at the time as a 'slide
rule'), his advice is still sound. Stay in the system the plans are drawn
in!
I, too, have a trick calculator that's intended for conversions and I use it
frequently. One of my trickiest tools was one I found by accident: it's a
digital caliper from Harbor Freight. I was lazy when I ordered it and just
picked a 12" model. Turned out it's much too large for convenient thickness
measurement, which was what I really wanted it for, but I found that it's a
dandy tool for measuring and marking up to that 12" limit. What makes it so
convenient is that it switches from Imperial to metric at the tap of a
button. I slide it until I get the measure I want, lock the slide, and mark
the piece. Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a tape measure, but
this works for me. Just a suggestion to all....
David Romasco
_____
From:cha62759@...[mailto:cha62759@...]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] English vs Metric
There was an effort some years ago to start the US towards metric.
Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
to start teaching metrics.
Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
the hair when doing carpentry.
Maybe in the next millenium.
Bob Chamberland
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cogaeut/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1074633993/A=1945637/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Def
ault?mqso=60178397&partid=4116730> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1945637/rand=329134292>
_____
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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There was an effort some years ago to start the US towards metric.
Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
to start teaching metrics.
Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
the hair when doing carpentry.
Maybe in the next millenium.
Bob Chamberland
Highway signs started to sprout kilometers and schools were mandated
to start teaching metrics.
Unfortunately the Luddites took over and all came to naught. Once in a
while driving the back country or when you get close to the border
crossings you might run into a sign giving kms to the next attraction.
A long time ago I bought a calculator that would add all those
oddities up. Imagine plugging in 1/8 plus 1/32 etc. But it does save
the hair when doing carpentry.
Maybe in the next millenium.
Bob Chamberland