Re: MONET - a pre-Bolgerite?
Did you notice that it's a spud barge. Two poles on the starboard side
that can be dropped into the mud/botom to anchor it in place for hors
of sketching or painting without changing the view.
Strange, how we tend to think we've just invented everything last week.
Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SunCoastRowingClub/
Join us for a fun pull every Wednesday eve on Florida's west coast.
that can be dropped into the mud/botom to anchor it in place for hors
of sketching or painting without changing the view.
Strange, how we tend to think we've just invented everything last week.
Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SunCoastRowingClub/
Join us for a fun pull every Wednesday eve on Florida's west coast.
I have uploaded a digitized copy of Monet's painting of his
houseboat. It could easily be a Bolger design. It's in a folder in
Photos called CRAFT AS ART.
houseboat. It could easily be a Bolger design. It's in a folder in
Photos called CRAFT AS ART.
Hi Derek
Thank you for the reply.
I showed the cartoon and specs to my SO last evening--figured I might as well break it to her sooner than later--and then showed her the Micro for comparison. She wants a Micro (and cabin and more room), something I didn't even expect. So, after our conversation, I'm going for the larger boat. I suppose the next step is to order plans and start looking for ply.
Thanks again.
John
Derek Waters <dgw@...> wrote:
Hi John
How many Oldshoes are out there, I wonder? As a Micro owner I cannot justify
building one myself, despite having a strong fondness for the design. Build!
Think of all the vicarious pleasure you'll be giving...
If you care to extrapolate from Micro experiences, I'd expect Oldshoe to
sail faster than her LWL would indicate. If you apply the " 1.34 times root
of LWL" calculation Micro should only make four and a half knots. In fact,
five and a half is easy, and I've seen the GPS nudging upwards from there.
Once sailing, Oldshoe will be all LWL.
Motoring, you will find that the keel prevents her from being blown away in
crosswinds, but I'd expect a strong current to grab her more than it would
say a fishing 'tinny'.
Beer-wise, I guess anything from a 'microbrewery' should be OK. Quality
rather than quantity being the Micro theme.
Not that there's anything to be said against quantity, beerwise :)
cheers
Derek
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you for the reply.
I showed the cartoon and specs to my SO last evening--figured I might as well break it to her sooner than later--and then showed her the Micro for comparison. She wants a Micro (and cabin and more room), something I didn't even expect. So, after our conversation, I'm going for the larger boat. I suppose the next step is to order plans and start looking for ply.
Thanks again.
John
Derek Waters <dgw@...> wrote:
Hi John
How many Oldshoes are out there, I wonder? As a Micro owner I cannot justify
building one myself, despite having a strong fondness for the design. Build!
Think of all the vicarious pleasure you'll be giving...
If you care to extrapolate from Micro experiences, I'd expect Oldshoe to
sail faster than her LWL would indicate. If you apply the " 1.34 times root
of LWL" calculation Micro should only make four and a half knots. In fact,
five and a half is easy, and I've seen the GPS nudging upwards from there.
Once sailing, Oldshoe will be all LWL.
Motoring, you will find that the keel prevents her from being blown away in
crosswinds, but I'd expect a strong current to grab her more than it would
say a fishing 'tinny'.
Beer-wise, I guess anything from a 'microbrewery' should be OK. Quality
rather than quantity being the Micro theme.
Not that there's anything to be said against quantity, beerwise :)
cheers
Derek
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi John
How many Oldshoes are out there, I wonder? As a Micro owner I cannot justify
building one myself, despite having a strong fondness for the design. Build!
Think of all the vicarious pleasure you'll be giving...
If you care to extrapolate from Micro experiences, I'd expect Oldshoe to
sail faster than her LWL would indicate. If you apply the " 1.34 times root
of LWL" calculation Micro should only make four and a half knots. In fact,
five and a half is easy, and I've seen the GPS nudging upwards from there.
Once sailing, Oldshoe will be all LWL.
Motoring, you will find that the keel prevents her from being blown away in
crosswinds, but I'd expect a strong current to grab her more than it would
say a fishing 'tinny'.
Beer-wise, I guess anything from a 'microbrewery' should be OK. Quality
rather than quantity being the Micro theme.
Not that there's anything to be said against quantity, beerwise :)
cheers
Derek
How many Oldshoes are out there, I wonder? As a Micro owner I cannot justify
building one myself, despite having a strong fondness for the design. Build!
Think of all the vicarious pleasure you'll be giving...
If you care to extrapolate from Micro experiences, I'd expect Oldshoe to
sail faster than her LWL would indicate. If you apply the " 1.34 times root
of LWL" calculation Micro should only make four and a half knots. In fact,
five and a half is easy, and I've seen the GPS nudging upwards from there.
Once sailing, Oldshoe will be all LWL.
Motoring, you will find that the keel prevents her from being blown away in
crosswinds, but I'd expect a strong current to grab her more than it would
say a fishing 'tinny'.
Beer-wise, I guess anything from a 'microbrewery' should be OK. Quality
rather than quantity being the Micro theme.
Not that there's anything to be said against quantity, beerwise :)
cheers
Derek
A newbie here, so please excuse any ignorance I may (and probably
will) display.
I know that this thread is a little old, but reading all of this
discussion has made me research the Oldshoe a bit--and I am
impressed...and so I now have a couple of questions if y'all don't
mind. I also might add that I've owned several small (plastic)
sailboats and built several other small boats so am somewhat familiar
with displacement/planing design/performance and such--but nothing
with Oldshoe's shape.
So, understanding that it is a 12' displacement sailboat (and not a
Laser)--just how slow is it? How does it compare to other small open
boats of similar size?
How well does it motor? I live and fish near the mouth of a large
river (strong current on the outgoing tide) and see myself using it
without sail on occasion--just under power. Any comments or
suggestions about this?
Is there a particular beer that should be considered the official
brew of the Micro family or should I just wing it with something
local?
Thanks all.
John in Oregon
will) display.
I know that this thread is a little old, but reading all of this
discussion has made me research the Oldshoe a bit--and I am
impressed...and so I now have a couple of questions if y'all don't
mind. I also might add that I've owned several small (plastic)
sailboats and built several other small boats so am somewhat familiar
with displacement/planing design/performance and such--but nothing
with Oldshoe's shape.
So, understanding that it is a 12' displacement sailboat (and not a
Laser)--just how slow is it? How does it compare to other small open
boats of similar size?
How well does it motor? I live and fish near the mouth of a large
river (strong current on the outgoing tide) and see myself using it
without sail on occasion--just under power. Any comments or
suggestions about this?
Is there a particular beer that should be considered the official
brew of the Micro family or should I just wing it with something
local?
Thanks all.
John in Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, gavin atkin <gavinatkin@y...> wrote:
>
>
>bolger@yahoogroups.comwrote:
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:00:16 -0000
> From: "pvanderwaart"
>
> Subject: Re: Micro comparisons
>
>
> >Anyone considering Micro, and who rejects Long Micro as too big,
> should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
> through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
> building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No
cabin
> at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it a
cruiser.
> >Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.
>
>
> I've wondered about that too, for it seems to me that in many ways
it would make a good boat for an open boat cruising enthusiast, and
an inexpensive day boat for others.
>
> I think the answer must be that weight and slow speed are prices
people are prepared to pay for sheltered accommodation - but a
lighter, faster boat is more appealing to them the rest of the time.
>
> I'm half-guessing about the speed bit, but I don't think the
Oldshoe is going to be a Laser.
>
>
> Gav
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and
save £80
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- David Romasco casually wrote:
You probably just picked it up on
a trip to the store for a gallon
of milk and loaf of bread :/
Of course, I am immensely jealous,
must know more details and see photos!
> I have a recently acquired Oldshoe!!!
You probably just picked it up on
a trip to the store for a gallon
of milk and loaf of bread :/
Of course, I am immensely jealous,
must know more details and see photos!
That's "GasparillA", my dear Hector. Nice to see you're drinking lager
actually made for human consumption these days..
Sadly, the HighTops PCB design exercise was in fact an exercise in dry wit,
which in retrospect may be all wet.
Say, which boat is logging more time these days (or are you clapped under
hatches on the Bounty)?
David Romasco
_____
From: Bruce Hector [mailto:bruce_hector@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:34 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro comparisons
actually made for human consumption these days..
Sadly, the HighTops PCB design exercise was in fact an exercise in dry wit,
which in retrospect may be all wet.
Say, which boat is logging more time these days (or are you clapped under
hatches on the Bounty)?
David Romasco
_____
From: Bruce Hector [mailto:bruce_hector@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:34 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro comparisons
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
that's because you've never seen PCB's cruising version of Oldshoe,
called `Hightops'...
Now David,
Don't tease me like that! Please post more on Hightops, including a
sketch, cartoon or photo.
Drool, Drool, Drool!
J'sut le mouton noir de Largo, FL.
Blackheart Bo'son Bruce
Kicking aside the empty bottles of Newcastle Nut Brown,and Sam Adams
to get to the keyboard after last nights practice party for Tampa
Bay's pirate fest "Gasparill 2004" happening this Friday.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Remember, I'm quoting hearsay on Oldshoe's performance; actual experience
yet to come... but I suspect the somewhat globular proportions may have more
influence than that keel and ballast. The Herreshoff 12-1/2 has
considerably sleeker lines and much more weight than Oldshoe (1350 vs. 450,
for heaven's sake!)
I hear you on trailering; I'm still assembling a suitable trailer. The
relative merits between Oldshoe and a centerboard boat probably seem more
obvious to people of a certain age who like to sail sitting upright. I've
seen sailing Oldshoe compared to sailing a 30-footer, in terms of motion and
comfort. That speaks to me.
David Romasco
_____
From: pvanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:04 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro comparisons
of the Herreshoff 12 1/2, especially as a balm to anxiety in rough
water, and you pop up with this more or less contrary view.
Another Oldshoe downside is that someone looking at a 12 foot boat
may well **think** a light weight, centerboard boat is more suitable
for trailering and whatnot.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yet to come... but I suspect the somewhat globular proportions may have more
influence than that keel and ballast. The Herreshoff 12-1/2 has
considerably sleeker lines and much more weight than Oldshoe (1350 vs. 450,
for heaven's sake!)
I hear you on trailering; I'm still assembling a suitable trailer. The
relative merits between Oldshoe and a centerboard boat probably seem more
obvious to people of a certain age who like to sail sitting upright. I've
seen sailing Oldshoe compared to sailing a 30-footer, in terms of motion and
comfort. That speaks to me.
David Romasco
_____
From: pvanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:04 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro comparisons
> I understand she moves well unless confronted with aI was thinking of posting that Oldshoe might have some of the virtues
> certain amount of chop.
of the Herreshoff 12 1/2, especially as a balm to anxiety in rough
water, and you pop up with this more or less contrary view.
Another Oldshoe downside is that someone looking at a 12 foot boat
may well **think** a light weight, centerboard boat is more suitable
for trailering and whatnot.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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ADVERTISEMENT
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web/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1075734311/A=1950447/R=0/*http:/ashnin.com/clk/muryu
taitakenattogyo?YH=4464812&yhad=1950447> click here
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
that's because you've never seen PCB's cruising version of Oldshoe,
called `Hightops' .
Now David,
Don't tease me like that! Please post more on Hightops, including a
sketch, cartoon or photo.
Drool, Drool, Drool!
J'sut le mouton noir de Largo, FL.
Blackheart Bo'son Bruce
Kicking aside the empty bottles of Newcastle Nut Brown,and Sam Adams
to get to the keyboard after last nights practice party for Tampa
Bay's pirate fest "Gasparill 2004" happening this Friday.
> I understand she moves well unless confronted with aI was thinking of posting that Oldshoe might have some of the virtues
> certain amount of chop.
of the Herreshoff 12 1/2, especially as a balm to anxiety in rough
water, and you pop up with this more or less contrary view.
Another Oldshoe downside is that someone looking at a 12 foot boat
may well **think** a light weight, centerboard boat is more suitable
for trailering and whatnot.
Peter
Well, Peter, thats because youve never seen PCBs cruising version of
Oldshoe, called Hightops .
I have a recently acquired Oldshoe under a tarp (and under a considerable
amount of snow and ice) in the back yard of my shop, waiting for the first
sail of spring. I understand she moves well unless confronted with a
certain amount of chop. We shall see!
But I think the answer to tother Peters question is simply that, when
youre comparing building costs, why not build the Micro? I do think,
however, that Oldshoe has a far more comfortable cockpit. It is, in fact, a
cockpit with fairing bits tacked on fore and aft.
David Romasco
_____
From: Peter Lenihan [mailto:lestat@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 6:09 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro comparisons
Oldshoe, called Hightops .
I have a recently acquired Oldshoe under a tarp (and under a considerable
amount of snow and ice) in the back yard of my shop, waiting for the first
sail of spring. I understand she moves well unless confronted with a
certain amount of chop. We shall see!
But I think the answer to tother Peters question is simply that, when
youre comparing building costs, why not build the Micro? I do think,
however, that Oldshoe has a far more comfortable cockpit. It is, in fact, a
cockpit with fairing bits tacked on fore and aft.
David Romasco
_____
From: Peter Lenihan [mailto:lestat@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 6:09 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro comparisons
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> Anyone considering Micro
> should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
> through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
> building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No
cabin
> at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it a
cruiser.
> Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.
>
> Peter
Peter,
Old Shoe jsut couldn't fill her bigger sisters shoes :-) And
that is what I think the "problem" is vis-à-vis the Old Shoe. If
there was no Micro, then I suspect the Old Shoe would be much more
popular.In fact,so popular that crafty amateurs would scheme ways of
putting some kind of little cabin on her to at least overnight in.In
short order,folks would be wondering "why not just use 2 full-length
sheets of plywood for the hull sides?" adding a few feet in length
to gain added space and comfort.All of this would lead to a Yahoo
Group called OLD SHOE,where the membership would hotly discuss
exactly how much more lead they would need in a lengthened Old
Shoe,how much the sail area must be increased,whether 100lbs of
water weighed more then 100 lbs of lead and where the best place to
postion it would be for best effect etc.... Finally,someone would
commission Bolger to draw up a"proper" bigger version of Old Shoe
for those who think they need more space and the Micro would be
born. Unfortunately, things did not happen in that order and the
Queen of the Fleet was born first.
That's my take on it,viewed from a not too unbiased eye.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
Sorry Hugo,it was a mere typo for JUST. I have a standing policy to
never come anywhere near a keyboard while under the magic spell of
the demon. Besides, I make a big enough fool of myself already
without any outside agency to assist me :-)
Mind you,when under the spell,I have been known to converse in three
different languages and actually have folks understand
me......weird,eh?!
Sincerely,
Peter"stone cold sober" Lenihan,from along the shores of the arctic
cold shores of the St.Lawrence..........
> Peter,of Home-brewed dyslexia? !@!*
> jsut
>
> j'sut ? is this some weird French-Canadian term? !! or JSUT a case
Sorry Hugo,it was a mere typo for JUST. I have a standing policy to
never come anywhere near a keyboard while under the magic spell of
the demon. Besides, I make a big enough fool of myself already
without any outside agency to assist me :-)
Mind you,when under the spell,I have been known to converse in three
different languages and actually have folks understand
me......weird,eh?!
Sincerely,
Peter"stone cold sober" Lenihan,from along the shores of the arctic
cold shores of the St.Lawrence..........
Peter Lenihan <lestat@...>
Peter,
jsut
j'sut ? is this some weird French-Canadian term? !! or JSUT a case of Home-brewed dyslexia? !@!*
On a more relevant topic. I had a fairly detailed conversation by phone the other night(actually early morning 1.15 a.m. my time-Australian) with Phil Bolger and Susanne Altenburger about the progress of "Silver Blaze" a 26'0" x 6'6" Torpedo-Sterned Inboard speedboat that they're in the process of designing for me. Apparently the design has progressed quite a bit and they will post me out some drawings soon so I can have a long awaited look at her. Hopefully the design will be completed in the next couple of months or so, though I probably won't be able to begin construction till April-May at the earliest.
My father has just about finished his Bolger designed 15' x7'1" Harbinger Catboat so we are expecting to launch her sometime in February.I'll post some photos.
Hugo Tyson. Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Peter,
jsut
j'sut ? is this some weird French-Canadian term? !! or JSUT a case of Home-brewed dyslexia? !@!*
On a more relevant topic. I had a fairly detailed conversation by phone the other night(actually early morning 1.15 a.m. my time-Australian) with Phil Bolger and Susanne Altenburger about the progress of "Silver Blaze" a 26'0" x 6'6" Torpedo-Sterned Inboard speedboat that they're in the process of designing for me. Apparently the design has progressed quite a bit and they will post me out some drawings soon so I can have a long awaited look at her. Hopefully the design will be completed in the next couple of months or so, though I probably won't be able to begin construction till April-May at the earliest.
My father has just about finished his Bolger designed 15' x7'1" Harbinger Catboat so we are expecting to launch her sometime in February.I'll post some photos.
Hugo Tyson. Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
Old Shoe jsut couldn't fill her bigger sisters shoes :-) And
that is what I think the "problem" is vis-à-vis the Old Shoe. If
there was no Micro, then I suspect the Old Shoe would be much more
popular.In fact,so popular that crafty amateurs would scheme ways of
putting some kind of little cabin on her to at least overnight in.In
short order,folks would be wondering "why not just use 2 full-length
sheets of plywood for the hull sides?" adding a few feet in length
to gain added space and comfort.All of this would lead to a Yahoo
Group called OLD SHOE,where the membership would hotly discuss
exactly how much more lead they would need in a lengthened Old
Shoe,how much the sail area must be increased,whether 100lbs of
water weighed more then 100 lbs of lead and where the best place to
postion it would be for best effect etc.... Finally,someone would
commission Bolger to draw up a"proper" bigger version of Old Shoe
for those who think they need more space and the Micro would be
born. Unfortunately, things did not happen in that order and the
Queen of the Fleet was born first.
That's my take on it,viewed from a not too unbiased eye.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> Anyone considering Microcabin
> should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
> through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
> building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No
> at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it acruiser.
> Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.Peter,
>
> Peter
Old Shoe jsut couldn't fill her bigger sisters shoes :-) And
that is what I think the "problem" is vis-à-vis the Old Shoe. If
there was no Micro, then I suspect the Old Shoe would be much more
popular.In fact,so popular that crafty amateurs would scheme ways of
putting some kind of little cabin on her to at least overnight in.In
short order,folks would be wondering "why not just use 2 full-length
sheets of plywood for the hull sides?" adding a few feet in length
to gain added space and comfort.All of this would lead to a Yahoo
Group called OLD SHOE,where the membership would hotly discuss
exactly how much more lead they would need in a lengthened Old
Shoe,how much the sail area must be increased,whether 100lbs of
water weighed more then 100 lbs of lead and where the best place to
postion it would be for best effect etc.... Finally,someone would
commission Bolger to draw up a"proper" bigger version of Old Shoe
for those who think they need more space and the Micro would be
born. Unfortunately, things did not happen in that order and the
Queen of the Fleet was born first.
That's my take on it,viewed from a not too unbiased eye.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
bolger@yahoogroups.comwrote:
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:00:16 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart"
Subject: Re: Micro comparisons
through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No cabin
at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it a cruiser.
I think the answer must be that weight and slow speed are prices people are prepared to pay for sheltered accommodation - but a lighter, faster boat is more appealing to them the rest of the time.
I'm half-guessing about the speed bit, but I don't think the Oldshoe is going to be a Laser.
Gav
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:00:16 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart"
Subject: Re: Micro comparisons
>Anyone considering Micro, and who rejects Long Micro as too big,should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No cabin
at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it a cruiser.
>Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.I've wondered about that too, for it seems to me that in many ways it would make a good boat for an open boat cruising enthusiast, and an inexpensive day boat for others.
I think the answer must be that weight and slow speed are prices people are prepared to pay for sheltered accommodation - but a lighter, faster boat is more appealing to them the rest of the time.
I'm half-guessing about the speed bit, but I don't think the Oldshoe is going to be a Laser.
Gav
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
I would like to have one of each with the LONGMICRO with a
pilothouse:-)
Nels
>cabin
> I don't suppose that I really have a good enough reason for
> resurrecting this thread, but..
>
> Anyone considering Micro, and who rejects Long Micro as too big,
> should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
> through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
> building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No
> at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it acruiser.
> Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.Right on Peter,
>
> Peter
I would like to have one of each with the LONGMICRO with a
pilothouse:-)
Nels
I don't suppose that I really have a good enough reason for
resurrecting this thread, but..
Anyone considering Micro, and who rejects Long Micro as too big,
should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No cabin
at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it a cruiser.
Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.
Peter
resurrecting this thread, but..
Anyone considering Micro, and who rejects Long Micro as too big,
should run Oldshoe (http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm)
through the mental processor. It's enough smaller to make the
building easier and quicker, but the cockpit may be better. No cabin
at all of course, and it would take some doing to make it a cruiser.
Still, I sometimes wonder why it hasn't been more popular.
Peter
>> Our Microtrawler has the same slap. We anchor by a stern quarter for asilent night. <<
Hi Rick
Thanks for the tip. Stern to has to be about the only thing we have not yet
tried. I'll give it a go next time we 're out in appropriate conditions, but
I suspect that Microtrawler's flat run aft is what makes the arrangement
successful. By comparison Micro is pretty much double ended, and will slap
at the stern as soon as at the bow. On a waterline of about twelve feet it
might as well be the same place :) In addition, Micro has a rudder aft that
you do not, and even firmly lashed, there is a 'clunk clunk' from the
bearings as the chop bangs the rudder sideways.
cheers
Derek
Our Microtrawler has the same slap. We anchor by a stern quarter for a
silent night. Anchoring by the bow first and pulling a loop of the rode
around a stern cleat. Very easy to flip it off should the need to be bow
on to the wind arise.
Rick
Derek Waters wrote:
silent night. Anchoring by the bow first and pulling a loop of the rode
around a stern cleat. Very easy to flip it off should the need to be bow
on to the wind arise.
Rick
Derek Waters wrote:
>
>
> We've found the cabin to be a rough place to sleep in anything other than
> calm water. Our local water has a nasty propensity for building a short
> steep chop in the middle of the night. The 'slapping at anchor' resulting
> from the flat bottom is quite pleasant by day, but a bear at night.
Thinking overnight, I felt I should have added that the Bolger Box
shape of Micro makes her the champ as far as usable interior space in
a 15' boat as long as you keep the novel features of the plan, e.g.
the foot hatch to below decks in lieu of a cockpit. Changing to a
traditional cockpit arrangement would cost a lot.
About the Cynthia J. I found that I was happiest with a crew member
to operate the leeboards, and if there was any weight in the wind, I
was happier still with two passengers. I would not recommend her for
singlehanding with the wind above 10 or 12 kts. Unlike the Micro, the
cat rig becomes unbalanced when reefed, and you have to sail well
heeled to counteract the lee helm. I never thought that Bolger's
comment that she could heel enough to take water in the cockpit
without capsizing was correct. If she went that far - which is very
far- the crew would grab on something and their weight would drag her
over. Or so I believe. After 3 or 4 years of ownership I got tired of
the noise from the flat bottom.
You might consider the Catfish Beachcruiser
(http://www.instantboats.com/catfish.htm), especially if sleeping
aboard and camping is your interest. The hull form would be more
seakindly both underway and at anchor. The original cabin arrangement
is, well, peculiar. It's a good try, but where does the crew go when
the boat is sailing. Bolger has made a couple of alternatives to the
plan, including an straight open cat (like a bigger tiny cat). It has
a Micro-like ballasted shoal keel (not ballasted?) which makes for a
much roomier boat that a centerboard.
Peter
shape of Micro makes her the champ as far as usable interior space in
a 15' boat as long as you keep the novel features of the plan, e.g.
the foot hatch to below decks in lieu of a cockpit. Changing to a
traditional cockpit arrangement would cost a lot.
About the Cynthia J. I found that I was happiest with a crew member
to operate the leeboards, and if there was any weight in the wind, I
was happier still with two passengers. I would not recommend her for
singlehanding with the wind above 10 or 12 kts. Unlike the Micro, the
cat rig becomes unbalanced when reefed, and you have to sail well
heeled to counteract the lee helm. I never thought that Bolger's
comment that she could heel enough to take water in the cockpit
without capsizing was correct. If she went that far - which is very
far- the crew would grab on something and their weight would drag her
over. Or so I believe. After 3 or 4 years of ownership I got tired of
the noise from the flat bottom.
You might consider the Catfish Beachcruiser
(http://www.instantboats.com/catfish.htm), especially if sleeping
aboard and camping is your interest. The hull form would be more
seakindly both underway and at anchor. The original cabin arrangement
is, well, peculiar. It's a good try, but where does the crew go when
the boat is sailing. Bolger has made a couple of alternatives to the
plan, including an straight open cat (like a bigger tiny cat). It has
a Micro-like ballasted shoal keel (not ballasted?) which makes for a
much roomier boat that a centerboard.
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
self- righting.
http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf
Cheers, Nels
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "queeqeg87" <queeqeg87@y...> wrote:The keel has been re-designed for shallow draft, and it is also fully
> > And, as a bonus question, has anyone actually towed a Micro
> > behind a compat car? I own a Toyota Corolla.
>
>Also thereis STORMPETREL - Which could be very easily towed.
self- righting.
http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "queeqeg87" <queeqeg87@y...> wrote:
would want to use it for towing a MICRO any distance.
If I was going to look at building a boat suitable for a small tow
car I would seriously consider #640 CAMPER. It is a very appealing
design in my opinion. Great camping accomodations in a 2-person
row/sail boat. 18'X5'3"
You can see it in Bolger main files section under "Birdwatcher".
A fellow in CA built the prototype but I have not heard from him
since he finished it. He was very enthused about the design, had a
few glitches and he and Mr. Bolger sorted them out from what I
understand.
I tow my MICRO with a full-sized van which is a bit of overkill, but
I also camp out of the van so it is perfect for me.
Cheers, Nels
> And, as a bonus question, has anyone actually towed a MicroThe Corolla is a really great little car - but I am not sure if I
> behind a compat car? I own a Toyota Corolla.
would want to use it for towing a MICRO any distance.
If I was going to look at building a boat suitable for a small tow
car I would seriously consider #640 CAMPER. It is a very appealing
design in my opinion. Great camping accomodations in a 2-person
row/sail boat. 18'X5'3"
You can see it in Bolger main files section under "Birdwatcher".
A fellow in CA built the prototype but I have not heard from him
since he finished it. He was very enthused about the design, had a
few glitches and he and Mr. Bolger sorted them out from what I
understand.
I tow my MICRO with a full-sized van which is a bit of overkill, but
I also camp out of the van so it is perfect for me.
Cheers, Nels
Hi 'Queeqeg'
The old 'water ballast' chestnut. I'll keep out of that discussion, thanks
:)
Your comments about Micro are about right. It is a lot of space on a short
LOA. Having built one I'd offer the following observations:
Broadly speaking the boat performs as advertised. We like ours. Folk who
have them seem to like them. Folk who used to have them seem to wish they
still did...
Pottering around on the lake, I find pointing ability is fine. Not racing
class, but not embarrassing either. For a sixteen footer the feeling of
solidity is amazing. I'm not a small guy, and I can hang way out over the
lee rail in a rising wind and the boat scarcely cares. Don't ask why I
know...
Since ours is rigged as a 'Chinese Gaff' sail rig comments are perhaps out
of line. The yawl is fun to play with, steering with the mizzen sheet
instead of the rudder. Our winds can be both light and squally; if yours are
similar I'd think hard about reefing arrangements. FWIW I'd happily
recommend the gaffer, although I've never sailed a standard Micro so have no
baseline for comparison. IIRC, PCB now recommends a taller mainsail and a
larger mainsail on the sprit boom rig. Stepping even our shorter mainmast is
a dry-land operation for me.
We've found the cabin to be a rough place to sleep in anything other than
calm water. Our local water has a nasty propensity for building a short
steep chop in the middle of the night. The 'slapping at anchor' resulting
from the flat bottom is quite pleasant by day, but a bear at night. A swell
would be no problem, I'd guess.YMMV.
Lots and lots of room, but you knew that already. The cockpit is a great
place to stretch out for a snooze in the sun, but as drawn there is not much
back support for long periods at the helm. The bow transom seems to throw
the water up and to the sides rather than back. Night sailing through the
aforementioned short chop I've seen the spray glinting in the nav lights
eight or ten feet in the air without any of it wetting me.
In the end I suspect these decisions are never 100% rational anyway. If you
like the boat, go for it.
cheers
Derek
The old 'water ballast' chestnut. I'll keep out of that discussion, thanks
:)
Your comments about Micro are about right. It is a lot of space on a short
LOA. Having built one I'd offer the following observations:
Broadly speaking the boat performs as advertised. We like ours. Folk who
have them seem to like them. Folk who used to have them seem to wish they
still did...
Pottering around on the lake, I find pointing ability is fine. Not racing
class, but not embarrassing either. For a sixteen footer the feeling of
solidity is amazing. I'm not a small guy, and I can hang way out over the
lee rail in a rising wind and the boat scarcely cares. Don't ask why I
know...
Since ours is rigged as a 'Chinese Gaff' sail rig comments are perhaps out
of line. The yawl is fun to play with, steering with the mizzen sheet
instead of the rudder. Our winds can be both light and squally; if yours are
similar I'd think hard about reefing arrangements. FWIW I'd happily
recommend the gaffer, although I've never sailed a standard Micro so have no
baseline for comparison. IIRC, PCB now recommends a taller mainsail and a
larger mainsail on the sprit boom rig. Stepping even our shorter mainmast is
a dry-land operation for me.
We've found the cabin to be a rough place to sleep in anything other than
calm water. Our local water has a nasty propensity for building a short
steep chop in the middle of the night. The 'slapping at anchor' resulting
from the flat bottom is quite pleasant by day, but a bear at night. A swell
would be no problem, I'd guess.YMMV.
Lots and lots of room, but you knew that already. The cockpit is a great
place to stretch out for a snooze in the sun, but as drawn there is not much
back support for long periods at the helm. The bow transom seems to throw
the water up and to the sides rather than back. Night sailing through the
aforementioned short chop I've seen the spray glinting in the nav lights
eight or ten feet in the air without any of it wetting me.
In the end I suspect these decisions are never 100% rational anyway. If you
like the boat, go for it.
cheers
Derek
I'm not surprised, she's pretty bad looking when compared to micro!!!
Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:I'm surprised PV hasn't mentioned Micro's unballasted, lee-boarded
pre-dessor, Cynthi J.
Picks and phots in Bolger 2 files and photsos.
Bruce Hector
Bolger rules!!!
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Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:I'm surprised PV hasn't mentioned Micro's unballasted, lee-boarded
pre-dessor, Cynthi J.
Picks and phots in Bolger 2 files and photsos.
Bruce Hector
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> OK, against my better judgement, I'm getting close to orderingThere's the Paradox (see the "paradoxbuilders" Yahoo! group), which is
> plans for the Micro and commiting myself to a new project. But,
> does anyone know of any boats that are similar to the Micro in
> terms of size and ability?
both similar and different. She's a remarkably clever boat, and
pretty in ways that the Micro isn't.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mat_man22" <mat_man@u...> wrote:
soft spot for the Lake Erie sharpie rig. If I didn't have the H&HS,
and an I60 on the way, I'd be sorely tempted....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>Ooo, the "Southwind" from the same site is *gorgeous*. And I have a
> Blue Moon 16' flat bottom, free plans:
>http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=SailBoats/BlueMoon
> I think a Turkish group is updating this to S&G.
soft spot for the Lake Erie sharpie rig. If I didn't have the H&HS,
and an I60 on the way, I'd be sorely tempted....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I'm surprised PV hasn't mentioned Micro's unballasted, lee-boarded
pre-dessor, Cynthi J.
Picks and phots in Bolger 2 files and photsos.
Bruce Hector
pre-dessor, Cynthi J.
Picks and phots in Bolger 2 files and photsos.
Bruce Hector
Blue Moon 16' flat bottom, free plans:
http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=SailBoats/BlueMoon
I think a Turkish group is updating this to S&G.
Best resale would be Weekender and it takes only takes
11 sheets of ply. Some are trying external lead.
SIMPLICITY 14, flat bottom, 11 sheets
http://www.selway-fisher.com/PCup16.htm#SIMP
Lots of other good plans.
16' Grey Dawn, flat bottom, $5 plans
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=26455&item=2456611626
Planked not plywood, 2200 lbs displacement.
http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=SailBoats/BlueMoon
I think a Turkish group is updating this to S&G.
Best resale would be Weekender and it takes only takes
11 sheets of ply. Some are trying external lead.
SIMPLICITY 14, flat bottom, 11 sheets
http://www.selway-fisher.com/PCup16.htm#SIMP
Lots of other good plans.
16' Grey Dawn, flat bottom, $5 plans
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=26455&item=2456611626
Planked not plywood, 2200 lbs displacement.
Thanks Peter. It's nice have confirmed some of the ideas I was
thinking about. For awhile, I seriously considered the
Weekender. The designer is probably correct when he says it's
all the boat you'll ever need. However, my El Toro was probably
all the boat I would ever need too. The Weekender has great sex
appeal. Love those lines. But what I like about the Micro is that it
has a cabin big enough that I can actually visualize climbing into
it, it's seriously self righting, and self bailing. I like the idea that
the anchor is out of the way and there's a spot for nasty stuff like
fuel and a port-potty. It appears that I could take it offshore and
sneak up the coast if I really wanted to. In fact, it looks very
capable. It's biggest weakness, in that sense, would be me. But
even if I keep it in the bay, I want to be able to fantasize about
riding those ocean swells and making it into a nearby harbor on
my way down to San Francisco. And, hey, you never know. I had
noticed the "treadlightly" boat, but even though it's only a couple
feet smaller than a Micro, it seems really tiny in comparison.
There's ALWAYS a temptation to consider something longer, but
I came up with a excellent reason to keep it smaller. At about 15
ft. plus the tongue of the trailer, it will fit in my garage. Case
closed on that! I'm not about to park a wooden boat in my rainy
environment, which is so damp that moss grows on the roof of
the house. And another aspect of the Micro that seems
interesting: It sounds like I could have a lot of fun with that
interesting sailing rig. It looks like there are lots of possibilities
and interesting things to learn. So, as it stands, I'm definitly
leaning toward a Micro. I'd love to hear any argument to the
contrary. I'd also like to hear some criticisms of the Micro.
Thanks for indulging me. I'm new here and it's very possible that
I'm treading on well-worn territory.
thinking about. For awhile, I seriously considered the
Weekender. The designer is probably correct when he says it's
all the boat you'll ever need. However, my El Toro was probably
all the boat I would ever need too. The Weekender has great sex
appeal. Love those lines. But what I like about the Micro is that it
has a cabin big enough that I can actually visualize climbing into
it, it's seriously self righting, and self bailing. I like the idea that
the anchor is out of the way and there's a spot for nasty stuff like
fuel and a port-potty. It appears that I could take it offshore and
sneak up the coast if I really wanted to. In fact, it looks very
capable. It's biggest weakness, in that sense, would be me. But
even if I keep it in the bay, I want to be able to fantasize about
riding those ocean swells and making it into a nearby harbor on
my way down to San Francisco. And, hey, you never know. I had
noticed the "treadlightly" boat, but even though it's only a couple
feet smaller than a Micro, it seems really tiny in comparison.
There's ALWAYS a temptation to consider something longer, but
I came up with a excellent reason to keep it smaller. At about 15
ft. plus the tongue of the trailer, it will fit in my garage. Case
closed on that! I'm not about to park a wooden boat in my rainy
environment, which is so damp that moss grows on the roof of
the house. And another aspect of the Micro that seems
interesting: It sounds like I could have a lot of fun with that
interesting sailing rig. It looks like there are lots of possibilities
and interesting things to learn. So, as it stands, I'm definitly
leaning toward a Micro. I'd love to hear any argument to the
contrary. I'd also like to hear some criticisms of the Micro.
Thanks for indulging me. I'm new here and it's very possible that
I'm treading on well-worn territory.
> Welsford's Treadlightly. It's a little smaller overall ...John is working on a larger version:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jwbuilders/message/192
"The big sister to Tread Lightly is one of the reasons I
cant take any more on for a while, she will be 16 or 17 ft,
have really good bunks for two and room in the cockpit
for a child or two under a tent, space for the portapotti,
a workable galley and she should not weigh much more than 1200."
Have you seen the keeless pre-dessor to Micro, the Cynthia J?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/CynthiaJ/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Cynthia%20J/
Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/CynthiaJ/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Cynthia%20J/
Bruce Hector
> does anyone know of any boats that are similar to the Micro inComparisons between boats have a subjective side as well as the
> terms of size and ability?
objective one, so I feel a little tentative about saying such-and-
such is 'similar to the Micro.' However, suggesting boat designs to
people is a major sympton of my addiction, so here goes...
1) For my money, one of the closest in target market is John
Welsford's Treadlightly. It's a little smaller overall, and the form
doesn't have the cubic efficiency of the Bolger Box, but it's close.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/treadlightly/index.htm
2) There was a quote from PB&F (I think from Suzanne A.) that they
feel that you the extra work and money to get a Long Micro rather
than the standard is well worth it.
3) In terms of the marketplace, I think the Stevenson Weekender has
to be mentioned, discussed. Then I would disgard it. But it is about
the same size, and a lot have been built.
4) The Bolger Chebacco is a better boat than the Micro in some ways,
and I imagine that cost and time of build are not greatly different.
The building techniques and challenges are different.
5) The Catbird 16 from Karl Stambaugh is probably a little more work
to build, but it's a real nice boat.
http://www.cmdboats.com/catbird16.htm
That's a start.
Peter
OK, against my better judgement, I'm getting close to ordering
plans for the Micro and commiting myself to a new project. But,
does anyone know of any boats that are similar to the Micro in
terms of size and ability? I want to see my full range of options.
Now that the information has penetrated my dense brain tissue, I
can clearly see that there's really no comparison between the
MusicBox and the Micro. One cannot ignore the impact of 400 lbs
of lead hanging under a small boat, eh?
And, as a bonus question, has anyone actually towed a Micro
behind a compat car? I own a Toyota Corolla.
plans for the Micro and commiting myself to a new project. But,
does anyone know of any boats that are similar to the Micro in
terms of size and ability? I want to see my full range of options.
Now that the information has penetrated my dense brain tissue, I
can clearly see that there's really no comparison between the
MusicBox and the Micro. One cannot ignore the impact of 400 lbs
of lead hanging under a small boat, eh?
And, as a bonus question, has anyone actually towed a Micro
behind a compat car? I own a Toyota Corolla.