Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger's Designs
10/4 good buddy! Drip free roofs are encouraging.
the potential for malfuctioning water ballast valves still scares me.
Don
Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell"
wrote:
houses, vehicles and boats.
1. Cutting holes in the floor.
2. Cutting openings in the roof.
3. Bringing in dirty water.
Guess I am old-fashioned and behind the times that way.
Cheers, Nels
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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the potential for malfuctioning water ballast valves still scares me.
Don
Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell"
wrote:
> That, and the authorities don't frown on you dumping water ballastover the
> side on a downwind leg.Three things that seem counter-intuitive to me, when it comes to
>
houses, vehicles and boats.
1. Cutting holes in the floor.
2. Cutting openings in the roof.
3. Bringing in dirty water.
Guess I am old-fashioned and behind the times that way.
Cheers, Nels
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
houses, vehicles and boats.
1. Cutting holes in the floor.
2. Cutting openings in the roof.
3. Bringing in dirty water.
Guess I am old-fashioned and behind the times that way.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> That, and the authorities don't frown on you dumping water ballastover the
> side on a downwind leg.Three things that seem counter-intuitive to me, when it comes to
>
houses, vehicles and boats.
1. Cutting holes in the floor.
2. Cutting openings in the roof.
3. Bringing in dirty water.
Guess I am old-fashioned and behind the times that way.
Cheers, Nels
That, and the authorities don't frown on you dumping water ballast over the
side on a downwind leg.
side on a downwind leg.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Romasco" <dromasco@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Bolger's Designs
> As a fat guy, may I point out that we're an endangered species in racing
> since water ballast entered the scene (water ballast, apparently, doesn't
> consume beer.... hard to imagine, really).
>
> David Romasco
>
Someone earlier quoted Dynamite Payson
on building from the 'Instant Boat' books.
Here is a similar quote from PCB.
Quoting from the 'Bolger Corner' feature
in SBJ#61, July 1988:
=========================================
Plans from Cartoons
I have always admired the Herreshoff
12�, but could not afford or justify the cost
of the modern replicas. For this reason, I
was delighted to see your article on the
Plywood 12� (SBJ#56). I�m aware that no
plans are available, as yet. But might I,
through a series of enlargements on the
copy machine, make my own set?
CV. Miller
Sullivan, Indiana
All these 'cartoons' are supposed to be
among other things, idea material for other
designers, both amateur and professional. I
lay no proprietary claim to any of them.
The original tracings would be much easier
to scale from and use in developing work-
ing drawings. P.C.B.
[...copies of tracings available for $5
from SBJ Ed.]
on building from the 'Instant Boat' books.
Here is a similar quote from PCB.
Quoting from the 'Bolger Corner' feature
in SBJ#61, July 1988:
=========================================
Plans from Cartoons
I have always admired the Herreshoff
12�, but could not afford or justify the cost
of the modern replicas. For this reason, I
was delighted to see your article on the
Plywood 12� (SBJ#56). I�m aware that no
plans are available, as yet. But might I,
through a series of enlargements on the
copy machine, make my own set?
CV. Miller
Sullivan, Indiana
All these 'cartoons' are supposed to be
among other things, idea material for other
designers, both amateur and professional. I
lay no proprietary claim to any of them.
The original tracings would be much easier
to scale from and use in developing work-
ing drawings. P.C.B.
[...copies of tracings available for $5
from SBJ Ed.]
As a fat guy, may I point out that we're an endangered species in racing
since water ballast entered the scene (water ballast, apparently, doesn't
consume beer.... hard to imagine, really).
David Romasco
_____
From: John Bell [mailto:smallboatdesigner@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 3:47 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger's Designs
In this case it can be above the LWL. Water is the equivalent of
having bunch of fat guys sitting on the rail to increase righting
moment. The reason it works is the because it is only on one side,
shifting the yacht's center of gravity. It isn't really important
whether it's above or below the LWL, but instead how far outboard it
is from the center of bouyancy. CG distance from the CB is righting
moment. The further apart those two are, the greater the righting
moment.
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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since water ballast entered the scene (water ballast, apparently, doesn't
consume beer.... hard to imagine, really).
David Romasco
_____
From: John Bell [mailto:smallboatdesigner@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 3:47 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger's Designs
In this case it can be above the LWL. Water is the equivalent of
having bunch of fat guys sitting on the rail to increase righting
moment. The reason it works is the because it is only on one side,
shifting the yacht's center of gravity. It isn't really important
whether it's above or below the LWL, but instead how far outboard it
is from the center of bouyancy. CG distance from the CB is righting
moment. The further apart those two are, the greater the righting
moment.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>Bolger rules!!!
> wrote: > 2) In the case of a racing boat, using water as movable
> ballast. > How and why is that done? To get around ballest rules? To
> put ballest where it will provide the most effectiveness - i.e. above
> the LWL?
>
> Nels
>
>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cc7520u/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1075409711/A=1945638/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Def
ault?mqso=60178383&partid=4116732> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1945638/rand=245435384>
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
automatically - using sheep. Seems to me it was voiced by a famous
naval figure - whom I won't mention, as he is wintering in Florida.
Cheers, Nels
> > Where it will provide the most effectiveness - i.e. above the LWL?I believe I heard once where you could get the same effect
>
> No, no, no, no, no.
>
> It is put where it will provide the most effectiviness: on the
> windward side.
>
> Peter
automatically - using sheep. Seems to me it was voiced by a famous
naval figure - whom I won't mention, as he is wintering in Florida.
Cheers, Nels
In this case it can be above the LWL. Water is the equivalent of
having bunch of fat guys sitting on the rail to increase righting
moment. The reason it works is the because it is only on one side,
shifting the yacht's center of gravity. It isn't really important
whether it's above or below the LWL, but instead how far outboard it
is from the center of bouyancy. CG distance from the CB is righting
moment. The further apart those two are, the greater the righting
moment.
having bunch of fat guys sitting on the rail to increase righting
moment. The reason it works is the because it is only on one side,
shifting the yacht's center of gravity. It isn't really important
whether it's above or below the LWL, but instead how far outboard it
is from the center of bouyancy. CG distance from the CB is righting
moment. The further apart those two are, the greater the righting
moment.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
> wrote: > 2) In the case of a racing boat, using water as movable
> ballast. > How and why is that done? To get around ballest rules? To
> put ballest where it will provide the most effectiveness - i.e. above
> the LWL?
>
> Nels
>
>
> Where it will provide the most effectiveness - i.e. above the LWL?No, no, no, no, no.
It is put where it will provide the most effectiviness: on the
windward side.
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
where it will provide the most effectiveness - i.e. above the LWL?
Nels
wrote:
> 2) In the case of a racing boat, using water as movable ballast.How and why is that done? To get around ballest rules? To put ballest
>
where it will provide the most effectiveness - i.e. above the LWL?
Nels
Allow me to rephrase that: No *sane* person is going to trailer a 40'
sailboat very often. ;-)
sailboat very often. ;-)
> John Bell:
> > After all, nobody is going to trailer a 40' sailboat very often, if
> > at all.
>
> Heh. Speak for yourself. :-)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
John Bell:
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> After all, nobody is going to trailer a 40' sailboat very often,Heh. Speak for yourself. :-)
> if at all.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Water ballast is really only useful in yacht in two cases:
1) The boat will be frequently trailered, and the owner does not care
to haul the extra weight of the ballast around.
2) In the case of a racing boat, using water as movable ballast.
Otherwise it has a number of drawbacks compared to metal, concrete,
beach shingle, etc. The first and formost of these is the space that
it takes up in the hull. Since lead is an order of magnitude denser
than water, it takes up an order of magnitude less space inside a
hull making more room for stores or people.
If a boat not going to be trailered or only very infrequently so,
then metal ballast (inside or outside) makes a lot more sense.
Bolger hasn't be drawing very many small trailer sailboats lately, so that may be why you don't see water ballast being incorporated in his designs. After all, nobody is going to trailer a 40' sailboat very often, it at all.
1) The boat will be frequently trailered, and the owner does not care
to haul the extra weight of the ballast around.
2) In the case of a racing boat, using water as movable ballast.
Otherwise it has a number of drawbacks compared to metal, concrete,
beach shingle, etc. The first and formost of these is the space that
it takes up in the hull. Since lead is an order of magnitude denser
than water, it takes up an order of magnitude less space inside a
hull making more room for stores or people.
If a boat not going to be trailered or only very infrequently so,
then metal ballast (inside or outside) makes a lot more sense.
Bolger hasn't be drawing very many small trailer sailboats lately, so that may be why you don't see water ballast being incorporated in his designs. After all, nobody is going to trailer a 40' sailboat very often, it at all.
> Is anybody aware of any recent Bolger boat designs that call for water
> ballast? Or leeboards for that matter? Say, in the last five years?
> (Other than improved versions of existing designs.)
>
> William Jochem's is the last one I recall. Bjorn mentioned to me that
> if he built it again he would not use water ballast, but then he does
> not plan to trailer it.
>
> Is there any conclusions one can draw from this? Perhaps Suesanne's
> engineering influence?
>
> Nels
>
>
Is anybody aware of any recent Bolger boat designs that call for
water ballest? Or leeboards for that matter? Say, in the last five
years? (Other than improved versions of existing designs.)
William Jochem's is the last one I recall. Bjorn mentioned to me that
if he built it again he would not use water ballest, but then he does
not plan to trailer it.
Is there any conclusions one can draw from this? Perhaps Suesanne's
engineering influence?
Nels
water ballest? Or leeboards for that matter? Say, in the last five
years? (Other than improved versions of existing designs.)
William Jochem's is the last one I recall. Bjorn mentioned to me that
if he built it again he would not use water ballest, but then he does
not plan to trailer it.
Is there any conclusions one can draw from this? Perhaps Suesanne's
engineering influence?
Nels