Re: Filling in the State Series, was: neural mass
I'm looking ahead also. Of course living space is a very personal
choice, but this isn't a project I'd sign up for.
I see Illinois and Puffer as true live aboard capable for two who
sleep together but also need to enjoy a bit of room. Illinois has
everything you describe below at the same time plus more.
Two aboard Tenn, Idaho, Dakota, or even Wyoming seems tight to me.
They are each my idea of a nice vaction boat for perhaps even a
couple months but not "forever". There is a Wyoming in Australia
with lots of cabin added, even so, Illinois seems a better use of
space to me. You can spend time in separate cabin spaces.
My path there is Work Skiff 18 with a slot top cuddy added, then
Idaho/Dakota, finally Illinois.
My Illinois will have a 100+hp outdrive so it can cover some miles
and 7' overheads but otherwise will follow the Bolger design and
philosophy.
All are sharpies with similar construction so my skill set will grow
through each buildup.
Here is a link with an essay in which PCB talks about Illinois,
Puffer, and the design philosophy.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
Puffer is in bolger2 files, big bolger boats
Here is a link to view "Turtle" which I understand to be about the
size of Tennessee, with lots of superstructure.
http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/turtle.htm
Don Schultz
choice, but this isn't a project I'd sign up for.
I see Illinois and Puffer as true live aboard capable for two who
sleep together but also need to enjoy a bit of room. Illinois has
everything you describe below at the same time plus more.
Two aboard Tenn, Idaho, Dakota, or even Wyoming seems tight to me.
They are each my idea of a nice vaction boat for perhaps even a
couple months but not "forever". There is a Wyoming in Australia
with lots of cabin added, even so, Illinois seems a better use of
space to me. You can spend time in separate cabin spaces.
My path there is Work Skiff 18 with a slot top cuddy added, then
Idaho/Dakota, finally Illinois.
My Illinois will have a 100+hp outdrive so it can cover some miles
and 7' overheads but otherwise will follow the Bolger design and
philosophy.
All are sharpies with similar construction so my skill set will grow
through each buildup.
Here is a link with an essay in which PCB talks about Illinois,
Puffer, and the design philosophy.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
Puffer is in bolger2 files, big bolger boats
Here is a link to view "Turtle" which I understand to be about the
size of Tennessee, with lots of superstructure.
http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/turtle.htm
Don Schultz
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, johnfader <johnfader@b...> wrote:
> Time to get serious or drop this idea. It is plain that there is a
gap
> between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two). Now,
> obviously Tennessee is more liveaboard than Idaho, so could be said
to
> work here, but is TN really large enough for two or for one as a
> permanent home?
>
> Anyone have an idea what PCB charges these days for a commission
like
> this? I'm guessing that a dozen of so folks sould share this
commission
> and each would be out about the cost of a set of plans; if the
total
> commission fee could be negotiated to include a set of plans for
each
> one in the group.....
>
> I envision a design with a half-dozen different accomodation
options,
> from nearly open dayboat to full Dakota-like liveaboard cabin. Full
> standing headroom would be useful, but I could live with a lower
> coachroof, solid over a center main saloon but slot-topped fore and
aft.
> A rear deck large barely enough to accomodate either a small I/O
drive
> or large tankage for an outboard would be nice. There must be a
small
> foredeck for lounging on a couple of lawn chairs. Wet anchor well
afore
> would be useful (would Bolger even be willing to design without one
> these days??? :-)
>
> Enclosed head with sitting shower capability and a loose galley are
> necessary. I think the galley could be combined with the main
saloon and
> helm given a pull-out second berth on the port side. Head would be
best
> in or adjoining this saloon.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Don Tyson <tysond99@y...> wrote:
Sounds like"there's no time like the present to get things
started" :-)
Seriously though,Windermere would be like the Airstream of
trailer boats if used only to trailer once in a while to the water.A
lighter boat with more straight forward,basic interior elements would
be more appropriate for your present needs.......however,keep in mind
that time does fly and those kids will be gone in a twinkling of the
eye...........
Windermeres beam is 8'3",over the guards.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> Peter,and mom and I travel and stay aboard for weeks at a time.
> Windmere reminds me of something I'd want once the kids are gone
>Don,
> What is the beam of Windmere?
>
> Cheers
>
> Don Tyson
Sounds like"there's no time like the present to get things
started" :-)
Seriously though,Windermere would be like the Airstream of
trailer boats if used only to trailer once in a while to the water.A
lighter boat with more straight forward,basic interior elements would
be more appropriate for your present needs.......however,keep in mind
that time does fly and those kids will be gone in a twinkling of the
eye...........
Windermeres beam is 8'3",over the guards.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Peter,
I generally agree with your synopsis of Windmere's good qualities, most especially the enormus tankage. Another good quality is the weight of Windmere. I have just come down off owning an 8000lb 28' sail boat with 4' of draft and I no the value of a heavy boat when at anchor or in a heavy cross-chop. I have however changed or adjusted my requirements and intentions of how I might use my next boat.
It has been decided that frequent trailering will be the norm and extreme shallow draft cruising also. The flat-bottomed sharpies are usually best for that.
On the off-season (oct-dec and mar-may) I will station the boat at various marinas for use as a hotel. I will only sleep on the boat during this time and so all systems will be drained and winterized. I will not be near the boat when not sleeping aboard and therefore want the accomodations to be of low maintenance. I am slightly embarassed to admit that an abbrieviated Mundoo III would suit me well, however, it would never be a Windmere if a Windmere is what is required.
Windmere reminds me of something I'd want once the kids are gone and mom and I travel and stay aboard for weeks at a time.
What is the beam of Windmere?
Cheers
Don Tyson
Peter Lenihan <lestat@...> wrote:
Hi Don,
If you are really seeking a comfortable live-a-board that can
realistically offer 4 season comfort yet not be too big for
trailering and/or storing beside the home,perhaps Windermere is worth
a more considered study.
Without wishing to bore the entire group,consider some of
Windermeres'"features";
hull draft a scant 10",1'8" with outboard lowered.
displacement of empty boat,7000lbs
200 gals gasoline
100 gals potable water
160 gals holding tank
Power from outboard= ability to haul motor to shop for repairs/tune-
ups,minimum fuss with through-hulls etc....
Space for two hard dinghys on roof top and davits to deal with them.
Optional fold down platform aft for sundeck/patio great for al fresco
dining or casting for supper.
Storage locker aft for folding biycles
Full length standing headroom with dedicated living areas(even a
private stateroom for when you feel "grumpy"),fully enclosed head
with shower option.Loads of enclosed storage areas for the stuff we
all need for serious long term boating/live-a-board living.Completely
insulated cabin space for serious heating or cooling options.House
standard galley area and seperate comfortable dining area.The best
possible location of the helm(other then a flying bridge) for perfect
visibilty regardless the weather.Dedicated anchor hoisting boom to
maintain good back health and eliminate any excuses for not using
serious heavy anchors to deal with anything short of a hurricane,in
other words,a good nights sleep :-).Fully developed and expanded bow
which does away with the typical sharpie slapping at anchor or while
driving into a chop.
Reserves sufficiant to keep you away from the need of a marina for at
least a couple of weeks,great autonomy:-) A nice big solid
centerboard to ensure excellent low speed tracking in cross
winds,very handy for tight marinas or channels.Many variable
combinations of opened/closed/screened and curtained windows and
doors to maintain optimum comfort/protection from the elements.
And finally,she is good lookin' !
O.K.,this is not entirely un-biased Don but understand that this is
perhaps one of Bolgers best power sharpies,in that size,which
seriously addresses live-a-board issues while maintaining a level of
comfort which is most civilized and can really be used throughout the
four seasons.She was not an excercise in minimulist living or record
breaking endeavours.
At any rate,at least something to chew on.......
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder and Bolger fan,from along the white,
snow-blanketed, gusty shores of the St.Lawrence.........
I generally agree with your synopsis of Windmere's good qualities, most especially the enormus tankage. Another good quality is the weight of Windmere. I have just come down off owning an 8000lb 28' sail boat with 4' of draft and I no the value of a heavy boat when at anchor or in a heavy cross-chop. I have however changed or adjusted my requirements and intentions of how I might use my next boat.
It has been decided that frequent trailering will be the norm and extreme shallow draft cruising also. The flat-bottomed sharpies are usually best for that.
On the off-season (oct-dec and mar-may) I will station the boat at various marinas for use as a hotel. I will only sleep on the boat during this time and so all systems will be drained and winterized. I will not be near the boat when not sleeping aboard and therefore want the accomodations to be of low maintenance. I am slightly embarassed to admit that an abbrieviated Mundoo III would suit me well, however, it would never be a Windmere if a Windmere is what is required.
Windmere reminds me of something I'd want once the kids are gone and mom and I travel and stay aboard for weeks at a time.
What is the beam of Windmere?
Cheers
Don Tyson
Peter Lenihan <lestat@...> wrote:
Hi Don,
If you are really seeking a comfortable live-a-board that can
realistically offer 4 season comfort yet not be too big for
trailering and/or storing beside the home,perhaps Windermere is worth
a more considered study.
Without wishing to bore the entire group,consider some of
Windermeres'"features";
hull draft a scant 10",1'8" with outboard lowered.
displacement of empty boat,7000lbs
200 gals gasoline
100 gals potable water
160 gals holding tank
Power from outboard= ability to haul motor to shop for repairs/tune-
ups,minimum fuss with through-hulls etc....
Space for two hard dinghys on roof top and davits to deal with them.
Optional fold down platform aft for sundeck/patio great for al fresco
dining or casting for supper.
Storage locker aft for folding biycles
Full length standing headroom with dedicated living areas(even a
private stateroom for when you feel "grumpy"),fully enclosed head
with shower option.Loads of enclosed storage areas for the stuff we
all need for serious long term boating/live-a-board living.Completely
insulated cabin space for serious heating or cooling options.House
standard galley area and seperate comfortable dining area.The best
possible location of the helm(other then a flying bridge) for perfect
visibilty regardless the weather.Dedicated anchor hoisting boom to
maintain good back health and eliminate any excuses for not using
serious heavy anchors to deal with anything short of a hurricane,in
other words,a good nights sleep :-).Fully developed and expanded bow
which does away with the typical sharpie slapping at anchor or while
driving into a chop.
Reserves sufficiant to keep you away from the need of a marina for at
least a couple of weeks,great autonomy:-) A nice big solid
centerboard to ensure excellent low speed tracking in cross
winds,very handy for tight marinas or channels.Many variable
combinations of opened/closed/screened and curtained windows and
doors to maintain optimum comfort/protection from the elements.
And finally,she is good lookin' !
O.K.,this is not entirely un-biased Don but understand that this is
perhaps one of Bolgers best power sharpies,in that size,which
seriously addresses live-a-board issues while maintaining a level of
comfort which is most civilized and can really be used throughout the
four seasons.She was not an excercise in minimulist living or record
breaking endeavours.
At any rate,at least something to chew on.......
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder and Bolger fan,from along the white,
snow-blanketed, gusty shores of the St.Lawrence.........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, johnfader wrote:
> Time to get serious or drop this idea.
Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
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- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce,
I was really talking of investment in time as much as cost. If you
look at the structure of the Windemere hull, you're building three
major structures, the flat, the shoe, and the fairing. I'd guess
that's triple the work compared to a flat-bottomed sharpie. Then as
far as cost, there's a whole bunch more epoxy and supplies, though the
wood bill is likely close to equal.
But then add the building jigs, the flipping table, etc. These have to
be funded (and labored over) as well, even though you don't get to
"float" them ;-) The sharpies can be built on the floor, bottom down
(except you wouldn't have do that with the Sneakeasy as it is so easy
to flip by hand..
The 25% figure for the hull, I've usually seen in respect of an
auxiliary sailboat, including an engine and rig. I'd guess that the
hull as a percentage of total cost is a good bit more expensive in
say, Tennessee, or even Dakota. These are just guesses; I've not built
one of either, and I'd not try to defend my guesses too rigorously.
Cheers/Fader
still lhoping to see Minnesota
I was really talking of investment in time as much as cost. If you
look at the structure of the Windemere hull, you're building three
major structures, the flat, the shoe, and the fairing. I'd guess
that's triple the work compared to a flat-bottomed sharpie. Then as
far as cost, there's a whole bunch more epoxy and supplies, though the
wood bill is likely close to equal.
But then add the building jigs, the flipping table, etc. These have to
be funded (and labored over) as well, even though you don't get to
"float" them ;-) The sharpies can be built on the floor, bottom down
(except you wouldn't have do that with the Sneakeasy as it is so easy
to flip by hand..
The 25% figure for the hull, I've usually seen in respect of an
auxiliary sailboat, including an engine and rig. I'd guess that the
hull as a percentage of total cost is a good bit more expensive in
say, Tennessee, or even Dakota. These are just guesses; I've not built
one of either, and I'd not try to defend my guesses too rigorously.
Cheers/Fader
still lhoping to see Minnesota
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> --- john_fader wrote:
> > the more complex hull
> > just isn't worth the investment
>
> I see that the interior work on
> Windermere, [and most boats] amounts
> to the majority of the work [cost].
>
> The hull is less than 25% of the
> work [cost] of the boat and economy
> with the hull doesn't yield much
> savings for the project overall!
>
> Heck, I am realizing that
> the trailer for my Micro
> Navigator could easily
> cost more that the hull!
--- john_fader wrote:
Windermere, [and most boats] amounts
to the majority of the work [cost].
The hull is less than 25% of the
work [cost] of the boat and economy
with the hull doesn't yield much
savings for the project overall!
Heck, I am realizing that
the trailer for my Micro
Navigator could easily
cost more that the hull!
> the more complex hullI see that the interior work on
> just isn't worth the investment
Windermere, [and most boats] amounts
to the majority of the work [cost].
The hull is less than 25% of the
work [cost] of the boat and economy
with the hull doesn't yield much
savings for the project overall!
Heck, I am realizing that
the trailer for my Micro
Navigator could easily
cost more that the hull!
Minnesota??? Hmmm...I think I've read the name, but have never run
across a drawing or any specs. Have any leads?
Cheers/Fader
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
across a drawing or any specs. Have any leads?
Cheers/Fader
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, johnfader <johnfader@b...> wrote:there
> is a gap between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two).
>
> You're pretty much describing the Minnesotta, fits the bill already,
> planing hull, traditional appearance and accomodations for two, but
> with the twist of the toilet being in an outhouse at the stern!
>
> Or the Champlain, if you want the similar accomodations but more
> economy with a lower speed potential.
>
> Bruce Hector
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
two items in that file.Maybe this link will work:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%20Construction%
20photos/
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
wrote:
> Peter, I know you have done this in the past, butSure Sam,just go to Bolger2,files,Windermere...it will be the last
> could you link to/post some line drawings or cartoons,
> and even Bolger's description, of Windermere? I still
> am hazy on the hull shape/construction of the boat.
> Thanks, Sam
two items in that file.Maybe this link will work:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%20Construction%
20photos/
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Peter,
I fossicked about in the various Bolger Groups and got a good feel for
Windermere. In size and accomodation, she is just right, though I'd
like to see a larger open foredeck. However, the more complex hull
just isn't worth the investment for my particular use. It does make an
immensely strong truss foundation for the rest of the boat, though.
That accomodation could be easily applied to an enlarged Clam Skiff
hull to get just what I want. However, it would badly violate the 6:1
rule, so would be only a low-speed cruiser (my prime use, anyway) for
safety. I'd hate to hear what Bolger would say about such a boat with
a 100 hp outboard :-)
Cheers/Fader
I fossicked about in the various Bolger Groups and got a good feel for
Windermere. In size and accomodation, she is just right, though I'd
like to see a larger open foredeck. However, the more complex hull
just isn't worth the investment for my particular use. It does make an
immensely strong truss foundation for the rest of the boat, though.
That accomodation could be easily applied to an enlarged Clam Skiff
hull to get just what I want. However, it would badly violate the 6:1
rule, so would be only a low-speed cruiser (my prime use, anyway) for
safety. I'd hate to hear what Bolger would say about such a boat with
a 100 hp outboard :-)
Cheers/Fader
--- leewan wrote:
Series Sharpie'?
Key, I see, is the length to
width ratio: 5:1 to 6:1 plus.
I think Bolger was thinking
classic US Battleship
proportions, 'sharpies', and
several battleships have State
names too.
In the shorter size range all
these are riverine, or protected
water boats.
I think you could add Sneakeasy
to the list:
Sneakeasy 26.5 x 4
Topaz should probably not be in
the 'State Series' as she is too
wide. She is in another class,
with perhaps Sitka Explorer,
Tahiti, and Fiji.
I suspect that the reason there
are no Bolger power sharpies
[with cabins] shorter than 29'
to be that to remain a 'sharpie'
the shorter boats are too narrow.
He solves that problem somewhat
with the box keel of Micro Trawler,
Champlain, and Windermere. Though
I argue that Bolger doesn't consider
those boats to be sharpies, and
not of the 'State Series'.
Champlain and Windermere, as their
names suggest, are more properly
part of the distinct 'Lake Series'.
Are there other 'Lake Series' boats?
> trying to get a sense of what ...What is the definition of a 'State
> these boats... are ...
>...what is the intended function
> of each design?
> Tennessee 29x6
> Idaho 31x5
> Minnesota 31x6.5
> Topaz 31x7.4
> Dakota 37x7
> Wyoming 51x8
> Illinois 63x10
Series Sharpie'?
Key, I see, is the length to
width ratio: 5:1 to 6:1 plus.
I think Bolger was thinking
classic US Battleship
proportions, 'sharpies', and
several battleships have State
names too.
In the shorter size range all
these are riverine, or protected
water boats.
I think you could add Sneakeasy
to the list:
Sneakeasy 26.5 x 4
Topaz should probably not be in
the 'State Series' as she is too
wide. She is in another class,
with perhaps Sitka Explorer,
Tahiti, and Fiji.
I suspect that the reason there
are no Bolger power sharpies
[with cabins] shorter than 29'
to be that to remain a 'sharpie'
the shorter boats are too narrow.
He solves that problem somewhat
with the box keel of Micro Trawler,
Champlain, and Windermere. Though
I argue that Bolger doesn't consider
those boats to be sharpies, and
not of the 'State Series'.
Champlain and Windermere, as their
names suggest, are more properly
part of the distinct 'Lake Series'.
Are there other 'Lake Series' boats?
Peter,
the attraction of the State series is *really* simple construction. I
have this feeling that Windermere has a much more complex hull to
build. Is this not true? I know that you've been talking about her for
quite a while, but I don't think I've ever looked at a lines drawing.
I'm headed for files right now to see if you've posted those.
Well, didn't see anything; maybe it is there under a different title.
I don't even recall the dimensions of the design. I'm disinclined to
add expense/time for a complex hull on a boat that would be used in
river/lake/harbor/waterway cruising where the sharpie hull isn't much
of a disadvantage.
I do plan to build a Sneakeasy this spring to see how I might like a
larger version of the same hull.
Cheers/The Fader
BTW, "syndicate" was the word I was looking for. I knew that it would
come to me, despite my encroaching lethonomia.
the attraction of the State series is *really* simple construction. I
have this feeling that Windermere has a much more complex hull to
build. Is this not true? I know that you've been talking about her for
quite a while, but I don't think I've ever looked at a lines drawing.
I'm headed for files right now to see if you've posted those.
Well, didn't see anything; maybe it is there under a different title.
I don't even recall the dimensions of the design. I'm disinclined to
add expense/time for a complex hull on a boat that would be used in
river/lake/harbor/waterway cruising where the sharpie hull isn't much
of a disadvantage.
I do plan to build a Sneakeasy this spring to see how I might like a
larger version of the same hull.
Cheers/The Fader
BTW, "syndicate" was the word I was looking for. I knew that it would
come to me, despite my encroaching lethonomia.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <lestat@b...> wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> If you are really seeking a comfortable live-a-board that can
> realistically offer 4 season comfort yet not be too big for
> trailering and/or storing beside the home,perhaps Windermere is
worth a more considered study.
Peter, I know you have done this in the past, but
could you link to/post some line drawings or cartoons,
and even Bolger's description, of Windermere? I still
am hazy on the hull shape/construction of the boat.
Thanks, Sam
--- Peter Lenihan <lestat@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
could you link to/post some line drawings or cartoons,
and even Bolger's description, of Windermere? I still
am hazy on the hull shape/construction of the boat.
Thanks, Sam
--- Peter Lenihan <lestat@...> wrote:
> Hi Don,__________________________________
>
> If you are really seeking a comfortable
> live-a-board that can
> realistically offer 4 season comfort yet not be too
> big for
> trailering and/or storing beside the home,perhaps
> Windermere is worth
> a more considered study.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Hi Don,
If you are really seeking a comfortable live-a-board that can
realistically offer 4 season comfort yet not be too big for
trailering and/or storing beside the home,perhaps Windermere is worth
a more considered study.
Without wishing to bore the entire group,consider some of
Windermeres'"features";
hull draft a scant 10",1'8" with outboard lowered.
displacement of empty boat,7000lbs
200 gals gasoline
100 gals potable water
160 gals holding tank
Power from outboard= ability to haul motor to shop for repairs/tune-
ups,minimum fuss with through-hulls etc....
Space for two hard dinghys on roof top and davits to deal with them.
Optional fold down platform aft for sundeck/patio great for al fresco
dining or casting for supper.
Storage locker aft for folding biycles
Full length standing headroom with dedicated living areas(even a
private stateroom for when you feel "grumpy"),fully enclosed head
with shower option.Loads of enclosed storage areas for the stuff we
all need for serious long term boating/live-a-board living.Completely
insulated cabin space for serious heating or cooling options.House
standard galley area and seperate comfortable dining area.The best
possible location of the helm(other then a flying bridge) for perfect
visibilty regardless the weather.Dedicated anchor hoisting boom to
maintain good back health and eliminate any excuses for not using
serious heavy anchors to deal with anything short of a hurricane,in
other words,a good nights sleep :-).Fully developed and expanded bow
which does away with the typical sharpie slapping at anchor or while
driving into a chop.
Reserves sufficiant to keep you away from the need of a marina for at
least a couple of weeks,great autonomy:-) A nice big solid
centerboard to ensure excellent low speed tracking in cross
winds,very handy for tight marinas or channels.Many variable
combinations of opened/closed/screened and curtained windows and
doors to maintain optimum comfort/protection from the elements.
And finally,she is good lookin' !
O.K.,this is not entirely un-biased Don but understand that this is
perhaps one of Bolgers best power sharpies,in that size,which
seriously addresses live-a-board issues while maintaining a level of
comfort which is most civilized and can really be used throughout the
four seasons.She was not an excercise in minimulist living or record
breaking endeavours.
At any rate,at least something to chew on.......
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder and Bolger fan,from along the white,
snow-blanketed, gusty shores of the St.Lawrence.........
If you are really seeking a comfortable live-a-board that can
realistically offer 4 season comfort yet not be too big for
trailering and/or storing beside the home,perhaps Windermere is worth
a more considered study.
Without wishing to bore the entire group,consider some of
Windermeres'"features";
hull draft a scant 10",1'8" with outboard lowered.
displacement of empty boat,7000lbs
200 gals gasoline
100 gals potable water
160 gals holding tank
Power from outboard= ability to haul motor to shop for repairs/tune-
ups,minimum fuss with through-hulls etc....
Space for two hard dinghys on roof top and davits to deal with them.
Optional fold down platform aft for sundeck/patio great for al fresco
dining or casting for supper.
Storage locker aft for folding biycles
Full length standing headroom with dedicated living areas(even a
private stateroom for when you feel "grumpy"),fully enclosed head
with shower option.Loads of enclosed storage areas for the stuff we
all need for serious long term boating/live-a-board living.Completely
insulated cabin space for serious heating or cooling options.House
standard galley area and seperate comfortable dining area.The best
possible location of the helm(other then a flying bridge) for perfect
visibilty regardless the weather.Dedicated anchor hoisting boom to
maintain good back health and eliminate any excuses for not using
serious heavy anchors to deal with anything short of a hurricane,in
other words,a good nights sleep :-).Fully developed and expanded bow
which does away with the typical sharpie slapping at anchor or while
driving into a chop.
Reserves sufficiant to keep you away from the need of a marina for at
least a couple of weeks,great autonomy:-) A nice big solid
centerboard to ensure excellent low speed tracking in cross
winds,very handy for tight marinas or channels.Many variable
combinations of opened/closed/screened and curtained windows and
doors to maintain optimum comfort/protection from the elements.
And finally,she is good lookin' !
O.K.,this is not entirely un-biased Don but understand that this is
perhaps one of Bolgers best power sharpies,in that size,which
seriously addresses live-a-board issues while maintaining a level of
comfort which is most civilized and can really be used throughout the
four seasons.She was not an excercise in minimulist living or record
breaking endeavours.
At any rate,at least something to chew on.......
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder and Bolger fan,from along the white,
snow-blanketed, gusty shores of the St.Lawrence.........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, johnfader <johnfader@b...> wrote:
> Time to get serious or drop this idea.
I am not an expert but in trying to get a sense of what is available
with these boats these are the numbers I have come up with, they
need to be confirmed. Maybe the first step is to evaluate what is
available, i.e. where does Windermere, Champlain, etc fall? And
maybe more importantly what is the intended function of each design?
Tennessee 29x6
Idaho 31x5
Minnesota 31x6.5
Topaz 31x7.4
Dakota 37x7
Wyoming 51x8
Illinois 63x10
I would support a group effort.
chuck
with these boats these are the numbers I have come up with, they
need to be confirmed. Maybe the first step is to evaluate what is
available, i.e. where does Windermere, Champlain, etc fall? And
maybe more importantly what is the intended function of each design?
Tennessee 29x6
Idaho 31x5
Minnesota 31x6.5
Topaz 31x7.4
Dakota 37x7
Wyoming 51x8
Illinois 63x10
I would support a group effort.
chuck
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> Sorry, I thought the Minnesota sat between the Dakota and
Tennessee.
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: johnfader
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 8:13 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Filling in the State Series, was: neural
mass
>
>
> Time to get serious or drop this idea. It is plain that there is
a gap
> between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two). Now,
> obviously Tennessee is more liveaboard than Idaho, so could be
said to
> work here, but is TN really large enough for two or for one as a
> permanent home?
>
> Anyone have an idea what PCB charges these days for a commission
like
> this? I'm guessing that a dozen of so folks sould share this
commission
> and each would be out about the cost of a set of plans; if the
total
> commission fee could be negotiated to include a set of plans for
each
> one in the group.....
>
> I envision a design with a half-dozen different accomodation
options,
> from nearly open dayboat to full Dakota-like liveaboard cabin.
Full
> standing headroom would be useful, but I could live with a lower
> coachroof, solid over a center main saloon but slot-topped fore
and aft.
> A rear deck large barely enough to accomodate either a small I/O
drive
> or large tankage for an outboard would be nice. There must be a
small
> foredeck for lounging on a couple of lawn chairs. Wet anchor
well afore
> would be useful (would Bolger even be willing to design without
one
> these days??? :-)
>
> Enclosed head with sitting shower capability and a loose galley
are
> necessary. I think the galley could be combined with the main
saloon and
> helm given a pull-out second berth on the port side. Head would
be best
> in or adjoining this saloon.
>
> Anyway, the details are just as *I* would have them and there
are a
> zillion good ideas in our collective heads. These ideas would
obviously
> not come only from the members of the cartel (there's a better
word, but
> I haven't thought of it and am too lazy to go get the thesaurus)
but
> from the group at large. These would be winnowed by the cartel
members
> for presentation to PCB.
>
> I've read here that he is accepting few commissions right now,
but maybe
> this would be interesting enough to get him going.
>
> Who's in?
>
> Cheers/The Fader
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorry, I thought the Minnesota sat between the Dakota and Tennessee.
Jeff
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: johnfader
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Filling in the State Series, was: neural mass
Time to get serious or drop this idea. It is plain that there is a gap
between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two). Now,
obviously Tennessee is more liveaboard than Idaho, so could be said to
work here, but is TN really large enough for two or for one as a
permanent home?
Anyone have an idea what PCB charges these days for a commission like
this? I'm guessing that a dozen of so folks sould share this commission
and each would be out about the cost of a set of plans; if the total
commission fee could be negotiated to include a set of plans for each
one in the group.....
I envision a design with a half-dozen different accomodation options,
from nearly open dayboat to full Dakota-like liveaboard cabin. Full
standing headroom would be useful, but I could live with a lower
coachroof, solid over a center main saloon but slot-topped fore and aft.
A rear deck large barely enough to accomodate either a small I/O drive
or large tankage for an outboard would be nice. There must be a small
foredeck for lounging on a couple of lawn chairs. Wet anchor well afore
would be useful (would Bolger even be willing to design without one
these days??? :-)
Enclosed head with sitting shower capability and a loose galley are
necessary. I think the galley could be combined with the main saloon and
helm given a pull-out second berth on the port side. Head would be best
in or adjoining this saloon.
Anyway, the details are just as *I* would have them and there are a
zillion good ideas in our collective heads. These ideas would obviously
not come only from the members of the cartel (there's a better word, but
I haven't thought of it and am too lazy to go get the thesaurus) but
from the group at large. These would be winnowed by the cartel members
for presentation to PCB.
I've read here that he is accepting few commissions right now, but maybe
this would be interesting enough to get him going.
Who's in?
Cheers/The Fader
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, johnfader <johnfader@b...> wrote: there
is a gap between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two).
You're pretty much describing the Minnesotta, fits the bill already,
planing hull, traditional appearance and accomodations for two, but
with the twist of the toilet being in an outhouse at the stern!
Or the Champlain, if you want the similar accomodations but more
economy with a lower speed potential.
Bruce Hector
is a gap between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two).
You're pretty much describing the Minnesotta, fits the bill already,
planing hull, traditional appearance and accomodations for two, but
with the twist of the toilet being in an outhouse at the stern!
Or the Champlain, if you want the similar accomodations but more
economy with a lower speed potential.
Bruce Hector
Time to get serious or drop this idea. It is plain that there is a gap
between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two). Now,
obviously Tennessee is more liveaboard than Idaho, so could be said to
work here, but is TN really large enough for two or for one as a
permanent home?
Anyone have an idea what PCB charges these days for a commission like
this? I'm guessing that a dozen of so folks sould share this commission
and each would be out about the cost of a set of plans; if the total
commission fee could be negotiated to include a set of plans for each
one in the group.....
I envision a design with a half-dozen different accomodation options,
from nearly open dayboat to full Dakota-like liveaboard cabin. Full
standing headroom would be useful, but I could live with a lower
coachroof, solid over a center main saloon but slot-topped fore and aft.
A rear deck large barely enough to accomodate either a small I/O drive
or large tankage for an outboard would be nice. There must be a small
foredeck for lounging on a couple of lawn chairs. Wet anchor well afore
would be useful (would Bolger even be willing to design without one
these days??? :-)
Enclosed head with sitting shower capability and a loose galley are
necessary. I think the galley could be combined with the main saloon and
helm given a pull-out second berth on the port side. Head would be best
in or adjoining this saloon.
Anyway, the details are just as *I* would have them and there are a
zillion good ideas in our collective heads. These ideas would obviously
not come only from the members of the cartel (there's a better word, but
I haven't thought of it and am too lazy to go get the thesaurus) but
from the group at large. These would be winnowed by the cartel members
for presentation to PCB.
I've read here that he is accepting few commissions right now, but maybe
this would be interesting enough to get him going.
Who's in?
Cheers/The Fader
between Idaho (day launch) and Dakota (liveaboard for two). Now,
obviously Tennessee is more liveaboard than Idaho, so could be said to
work here, but is TN really large enough for two or for one as a
permanent home?
Anyone have an idea what PCB charges these days for a commission like
this? I'm guessing that a dozen of so folks sould share this commission
and each would be out about the cost of a set of plans; if the total
commission fee could be negotiated to include a set of plans for each
one in the group.....
I envision a design with a half-dozen different accomodation options,
from nearly open dayboat to full Dakota-like liveaboard cabin. Full
standing headroom would be useful, but I could live with a lower
coachroof, solid over a center main saloon but slot-topped fore and aft.
A rear deck large barely enough to accomodate either a small I/O drive
or large tankage for an outboard would be nice. There must be a small
foredeck for lounging on a couple of lawn chairs. Wet anchor well afore
would be useful (would Bolger even be willing to design without one
these days??? :-)
Enclosed head with sitting shower capability and a loose galley are
necessary. I think the galley could be combined with the main saloon and
helm given a pull-out second berth on the port side. Head would be best
in or adjoining this saloon.
Anyway, the details are just as *I* would have them and there are a
zillion good ideas in our collective heads. These ideas would obviously
not come only from the members of the cartel (there's a better word, but
I haven't thought of it and am too lazy to go get the thesaurus) but
from the group at large. These would be winnowed by the cartel members
for presentation to PCB.
I've read here that he is accepting few commissions right now, but maybe
this would be interesting enough to get him going.
Who's in?
Cheers/The Fader