[bolger] Re: windows for pilot house
Thanks for the tips, Larry. the polish (liquid auto wax) is a good idea.
Good news, the window problem is two thirds solved. My buddy gave me
two louvered VW camper windows, each about 42" X 16" with the sandwich
type tempered glass in them. They will fit the pilot house sides like it
was built for them, well, I guess that's mostly 'cause it will be.
;-) With the frames (aluminum) the weight is a little more than I would
like, about 18 pounds each, but beggars can't be too picky They will
keep the rain out and open to let air in. What more can I ask?
Stan, SG; In mid America where it is warm enough in the day, to work on
boats but too cool at night to have to work on the garden yet.
Good news, the window problem is two thirds solved. My buddy gave me
two louvered VW camper windows, each about 42" X 16" with the sandwich
type tempered glass in them. They will fit the pilot house sides like it
was built for them, well, I guess that's mostly 'cause it will be.
;-) With the frames (aluminum) the weight is a little more than I would
like, about 18 pounds each, but beggars can't be too picky They will
keep the rain out and open to let air in. What more can I ask?
Stan, SG; In mid America where it is warm enough in the day, to work on
boats but too cool at night to have to work on the garden yet.
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, Lincoln Ross wrote:
These were used on naval vessels for many years--perhaps they still are.
I've seen them in movies, although not in person, and they work. Also
described in Alistair Maclean's first novel, HMS Oh-I-Forget.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I seem to recall National Fisherman used to carry ads for a circularThis works fine. It spins *very fast*, and so no water stays on for long.
> window gadget which spun to keep off rain. Not sure why it was better.
These were used on naval vessels for many years--perhaps they still are.
I've seen them in movies, although not in person, and they work. Also
described in Alistair Maclean's first novel, HMS Oh-I-Forget.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the informative input.
Bill in MN
Bill in MN
I don't know about salt water, but I recall that I couldn't see out of
the car below 40 mph or so! Above that speed the wind would clean
things off. Below that speed it made little tiny beads of water that
clouded up the windshield. Not a problem for my friend that used it as
he never drove slower than that. Explains the fingernail marks in two
circles above my eyes.
I seem to recall National Fisherman used to carry ads for a circular
window gadget which spun to keep off rain. Not sure why it was better.
Must now run off (should, anyway) and try to catch up with the needs
of the hi tech industry (yuck!).
"derek waters" <dg-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3604
the car below 40 mph or so! Above that speed the wind would clean
things off. Below that speed it made little tiny beads of water that
clouded up the windshield. Not a problem for my friend that used it as
he never drove slower than that. Explains the fingernail marks in two
circles above my eyes.
I seem to recall National Fisherman used to carry ads for a circular
window gadget which spun to keep off rain. Not sure why it was better.
Must now run off (should, anyway) and try to catch up with the needs
of the hi tech industry (yuck!).
"derek waters" <dg-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3604
> I'm a wee bit surprised no-one mentioned RainX - I've driven throughstorms
> without turning the truck wipers on, and it used to work great on my(lexan)
> motorcycle helmet visor.
>
> Maybe it's no good in brine?
>
> Derek
>
I'm a wee bit surprised no-one mentioned RainX - I've driven through storms
without turning the truck wipers on, and it used to work great on my (lexan)
motorcycle helmet visor.
Maybe it's no good in brine?
Derek
without turning the truck wipers on, and it used to work great on my (lexan)
motorcycle helmet visor.
Maybe it's no good in brine?
Derek
John,
This sounds like an intriguing idea. I see the main problem as the
migration of water between the glass and the polycarbonate. This
could be resolved with either a clear adhesive (`a la auto glass)
occupying all the space between the layers. Whether you could
achieve an optically acceptable panel using amateur techniques
with this is unknown, and the variation of thermal expansion rates
between the Lexan and the glass might result in a a mess of broken
glass glued to expensive and now useless Lexan. I've built
nonfogging double glazed windows (well, they're mostly nonfogging)
by having a semi-dead air space between the layers with small
ventilating holes going to the outside (cooler and drier in temperate
climates) side of the house, but I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what
would be the best way to ventilate such panels on a boat. A third
alternative would be to assemble the panels with edges sealed with a
very strong, nondrying caulk around the edges that would maintain an
airtight seal in spite of the different expansion rates of the materials.
The black glop used on commercially built double-glazed store
windows might do the trick. Assembly of the panels would have to
occur in a very dry environment, say in a heated workspace on a cold
winter night, certainly not a Florida summer day. Then the glass would
be close enough to the Lexan to be supported somewhat during shock
loads, and if the glass breaks it could be removed without destroying the
polycarbonate. Hey, I think this would be workable. Now if someone
else will just spend the money <g>....
david
John wrote:
This sounds like an intriguing idea. I see the main problem as the
migration of water between the glass and the polycarbonate. This
could be resolved with either a clear adhesive (`a la auto glass)
occupying all the space between the layers. Whether you could
achieve an optically acceptable panel using amateur techniques
with this is unknown, and the variation of thermal expansion rates
between the Lexan and the glass might result in a a mess of broken
glass glued to expensive and now useless Lexan. I've built
nonfogging double glazed windows (well, they're mostly nonfogging)
by having a semi-dead air space between the layers with small
ventilating holes going to the outside (cooler and drier in temperate
climates) side of the house, but I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what
would be the best way to ventilate such panels on a boat. A third
alternative would be to assemble the panels with edges sealed with a
very strong, nondrying caulk around the edges that would maintain an
airtight seal in spite of the different expansion rates of the materials.
The black glop used on commercially built double-glazed store
windows might do the trick. Assembly of the panels would have to
occur in a very dry environment, say in a heated workspace on a cold
winter night, certainly not a Florida summer day. Then the glass would
be close enough to the Lexan to be supported somewhat during shock
loads, and if the glass breaks it could be removed without destroying the
polycarbonate. Hey, I think this would be workable. Now if someone
else will just spend the money <g>....
david
John wrote:
> <windshield wipers. I am grateful to John McDaniel for noting the new
> hard-coated Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof
> of this,
> <
>
> 'Tis me, John McDaniel, and sorry if I inferred that the scratch
> resistant Lexan coating would make this product suitable for use with
> wipers. It may be, but I cannot confirm. We do not intend to use our
> coated Lexan as a testbed.....yep, we're chicken.
>
> I've given some thought to using the same technique that is sometimes
> used on "bulletproof" glazing for our forward facing/need wipers
> windows. That is the sandwiching of relatively light genuine glass
> (wiperproof) with heavier Lexan on the inside. Currently, my thought
> is to simply mount them in a common frame with no attempt to have "dead
> air space"....just mount them smack together.
>
> Regards,
> John McDaniel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The viking funeral in a micro is a great idea. Sort of the last great slam
at the yacht club guys.
at the yacht club guys.
>From: Stan Muller <smuller@...>______________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: windows for pilot house
>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:05:22 -0600
>
>Hi all, and thanks for the assistance. Good news; a friend informed me
>tonight that he has a collection of flat VW camper windows in his attic
>that I am welcome to so wish me luck. With all the changes necessary
>with the M-N-B-T conversion, I'm getting good at afterthought
>engineering so I should be able to work something out.
>
>Rennie wrote;
>(snip)
> >Of course suppose one should consider the intended purpose. Anyone
> >sailing offshore should buy lexan. Anyone sailing offshore should also
>buy
> >life insurance a life raft epirb and a bigger boat.
>End of quote,
> The only way the Snow Goose would be offshore with me in it would be
>if one of my idiot heirs thought I had wanted a Viking funeral. ;-) And
>even in that unlikely scenario, I would want, a life raft, epirb and a
>bigger boat! Sail a Micro out into the blue water, yes! If I were able,
>it would be great. BUT, motor a Micro-Navigator-Birdwatcher-Tug (with
>the possibility of a stern wheel drive) out into blue water, would fall
>into the category of; No way, I'm crazy, but I aint stupid. ;-)
>
>Thanks once again for all the advice and help, Stan, SG
>
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Why not let the the water run off? Seem gravity works that way.
Rennie
Rennie
>From: "John" <jmcdan@...>______________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To:bolger@...
>Subject: [bolger] Pilot house windows & wipers
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:47:19 -0800
>
>
>
><windshield wipers. I am grateful to John McDaniel for noting the new
>hard-coated Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof
>of this,
><
>
>
>
>
>'Tis me, John McDaniel, and sorry if I inferred that the scratch
>resistant Lexan coating would make this product suitable for use with
>wipers. It may be, but I cannot confirm. We do not intend to use our
>coated Lexan as a testbed.....yep, we're chicken.
>
>I've given some thought to using the same technique that is sometimes
>used on "bulletproof" glazing for our forward facing/need wipers
>windows. That is the sandwiching of relatively light genuine glass
>(wiperproof) with heavier Lexan on the inside. Currently, my thought
>is to simply mount them in a common frame with no attempt to have "dead
>air space"....just mount them smack together.
>
>Regards,
>John McDaniel
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
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>
>
Hi all, and thanks for the assistance. Good news; a friend informed me
tonight that he has a collection of flat VW camper windows in his attic
that I am welcome to so wish me luck. With all the changes necessary
with the M-N-B-T conversion, I'm getting good at afterthought
engineering so I should be able to work something out.
Rennie wrote;
(snip)
The only way the Snow Goose would be offshore with me in it would be
if one of my idiot heirs thought I had wanted a Viking funeral. ;-) And
even in that unlikely scenario, I would want, a life raft, epirb and a
bigger boat! Sail a Micro out into the blue water, yes! If I were able,
it would be great. BUT, motor a Micro-Navigator-Birdwatcher-Tug (with
the possibility of a stern wheel drive) out into blue water, would fall
into the category of; No way, I'm crazy, but I aint stupid. ;-)
Thanks once again for all the advice and help, Stan, SG
tonight that he has a collection of flat VW camper windows in his attic
that I am welcome to so wish me luck. With all the changes necessary
with the M-N-B-T conversion, I'm getting good at afterthought
engineering so I should be able to work something out.
Rennie wrote;
(snip)
>Of course suppose one should consider the intended purpose. AnyoneEnd of quote,
>sailing offshore should buy lexan. Anyone sailing offshore should also buy
>life insurance a life raft epirb and a bigger boat.
The only way the Snow Goose would be offshore with me in it would be
if one of my idiot heirs thought I had wanted a Viking funeral. ;-) And
even in that unlikely scenario, I would want, a life raft, epirb and a
bigger boat! Sail a Micro out into the blue water, yes! If I were able,
it would be great. BUT, motor a Micro-Navigator-Birdwatcher-Tug (with
the possibility of a stern wheel drive) out into blue water, would fall
into the category of; No way, I'm crazy, but I aint stupid. ;-)
Thanks once again for all the advice and help, Stan, SG
Between pickup truck rear windows and those roll-down tailgate windows
on full-size station wagons, a junkyard (or windshield replacement
company) is definitely the way to go, with no worries about wipers.
That is, IMHO.
Matthew
"lincoln ross" <lincoln-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3572
on full-size station wagons, a junkyard (or windshield replacement
company) is definitely the way to go, with no worries about wipers.
That is, IMHO.
Matthew
"lincoln ross" <lincoln-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3572
> I think some old station wagons had tempered glass rear windows.
> Possibly not so old. Nice and flat. THese would be windows that were
> under some stress, for instance if the hinges attached to the glass.
<windshield wipers. I am grateful to John McDaniel for noting the new
hard-coated Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof
of this,
<
'Tis me, John McDaniel, and sorry if I inferred that the scratch
resistant Lexan coating would make this product suitable for use with
wipers. It may be, but I cannot confirm. We do not intend to use our
coated Lexan as a testbed.....yep, we're chicken.
I've given some thought to using the same technique that is sometimes
used on "bulletproof" glazing for our forward facing/need wipers
windows. That is the sandwiching of relatively light genuine glass
(wiperproof) with heavier Lexan on the inside. Currently, my thought
is to simply mount them in a common frame with no attempt to have "dead
air space"....just mount them smack together.
Regards,
John McDaniel
hard-coated Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof
of this,
<
'Tis me, John McDaniel, and sorry if I inferred that the scratch
resistant Lexan coating would make this product suitable for use with
wipers. It may be, but I cannot confirm. We do not intend to use our
coated Lexan as a testbed.....yep, we're chicken.
I've given some thought to using the same technique that is sometimes
used on "bulletproof" glazing for our forward facing/need wipers
windows. That is the sandwiching of relatively light genuine glass
(wiperproof) with heavier Lexan on the inside. Currently, my thought
is to simply mount them in a common frame with no attempt to have "dead
air space"....just mount them smack together.
Regards,
John McDaniel
I think some old station wagons had tempered glass rear windows.
Possibly not so old. Nice and flat. THese would be windows that were
under some stress, for instance if the hinges attached to the glass.
david <galvin-@...> wrote:
osnip...As the name implies, safety glass will not shatter into jagged
pieces
Possibly not so old. Nice and flat. THese would be windows that were
under some stress, for instance if the hinges attached to the glass.
david <galvin-@...> wrote:
osnip...As the name implies, safety glass will not shatter into jagged
pieces
> when broken, but it really is not very strong, and if used, it wouldbe wise to
> have protective shutters if the panes are large and the vessel isgoing offshore.
>windshields or
> "Another type of glass is usually reserved for the glazing of
> large exposed windows. Known as armored or tempered glass, it is aplate glass
> snip
Bill,
Your puzzlement is due to your misunderstanding of the properties of the various types of glass. Quoting from _Modern Wooden Yacht Construction_, by John Guzzwell (International Marine, 1979, page 195): "....Safety glass, the type used in automotive windshields, is a laminated sheet glass and can also be used here....As the name implies, safety glass will not shatter into jagged pieces when broken, but it really is not very strong, and if used, it would be wise to have protective shutters if the panes are large and the vessel is going offshore.
"Another type of glass is usually reserved for the glazing of windshields or large exposed windows. Known as armored or tempered glass, it is a plate glass that is heat-treated and cooled rapidly to make it almost indestructible."
Guzzwell later does allow that safety glass can be used in small inland vessels. My concern is that a boat like Micro Navigator, although presently intended for inshore motoring, may eventually find itself with its designed sails out on the ocean, doing what it was originally designed to do, perhaps under new ownership. It is notable that Bolger specifies tempered glass, and not safety glass, for use in the forward facing windows of pilothouses that would use windshield wipers. I am grateful to John McDaniel for noting the new hard-coated Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof of this, however, I would opt for high strength tempered glass on my own boat, as the material is proven in this application, and tempered glass is probably cost competitive with "hard finished" Lexan. I Am sure that the Lexan is, pound for pound, considerably stronger than the tempered glass, but I have spent many years pearing over and around boat windsields of Lexan and Plexiglass that have been rendered all but opaque by windshield wipers, so I remain to be convinced that Lexan will work,
Thanks
david
Btw: You can learn more than you ever wanted to know about glass at: <http://www.cmog.org/Education/edglass.htm>. Tempered glass and it's properties are discussed there in a nontechnical manner.
Your puzzlement is due to your misunderstanding of the properties of the various types of glass. Quoting from _Modern Wooden Yacht Construction_, by John Guzzwell (International Marine, 1979, page 195): "....Safety glass, the type used in automotive windshields, is a laminated sheet glass and can also be used here....As the name implies, safety glass will not shatter into jagged pieces when broken, but it really is not very strong, and if used, it would be wise to have protective shutters if the panes are large and the vessel is going offshore.
"Another type of glass is usually reserved for the glazing of windshields or large exposed windows. Known as armored or tempered glass, it is a plate glass that is heat-treated and cooled rapidly to make it almost indestructible."
Guzzwell later does allow that safety glass can be used in small inland vessels. My concern is that a boat like Micro Navigator, although presently intended for inshore motoring, may eventually find itself with its designed sails out on the ocean, doing what it was originally designed to do, perhaps under new ownership. It is notable that Bolger specifies tempered glass, and not safety glass, for use in the forward facing windows of pilothouses that would use windshield wipers. I am grateful to John McDaniel for noting the new hard-coated Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof of this, however, I would opt for high strength tempered glass on my own boat, as the material is proven in this application, and tempered glass is probably cost competitive with "hard finished" Lexan. I Am sure that the Lexan is, pound for pound, considerably stronger than the tempered glass, but I have spent many years pearing over and around boat windsields of Lexan and Plexiglass that have been rendered all but opaque by windshield wipers, so I remain to be convinced that Lexan will work,
Thanks
david
Btw: You can learn more than you ever wanted to know about glass at: <http://www.cmog.org/Education/edglass.htm>. Tempered glass and it's properties are discussed there in a nontechnical manner.
Wmrpage@... wrote:
I am puzzled as to why David ruled out auto safety glass. Tempered glass may
be marginally stronger than regular plate glass, but its chief benefit, I
believe, is the difference in fracture characteristics - i.e. it fractures
into relatively small granules, rather than large, potentially lethal shards.
Auto safety glass has the advantage that the fragments are held in place by
plastic, surely an even better deal. Flat panes of safety glass should be
available at reasonable prices at any "auto recycling center" Cheaper that UV
protected Lexan, I would venture to guess, but also heavier. Auto glass
companies can readily cut panes to desired size. I recall my father having
(new) flat panes cut at such an establishment for replacement windshields on
a runabout he was restoring. I don't remember the cost, but it seemed quite
reasonable to me at the time.
Bill in semi-tropical MN (71 degrees F!! I'm starting to get seriously
concerned that global warming may become a problem in my lifetime!)
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The price of lexan for these six windows will equal the price of the hull.
Four of 6 could be covered with plywood safety panals, probably 5 of six. I
appreciate the meaphor of the sea breaking like a sledge hammer, but this
boat weighs only 1000 lbs and has a high flat hull to absorb most pounding
before the windows get touched.
Of course,I suppose one should consider the intended purpose. Anyone
sailing offshore should buy lexan. Anyone sailing offshore shoud also buy
life insurance a life raft epirb and a bigger boat.
Rennie
Four of 6 could be covered with plywood safety panals, probably 5 of six. I
appreciate the meaphor of the sea breaking like a sledge hammer, but this
boat weighs only 1000 lbs and has a high flat hull to absorb most pounding
before the windows get touched.
Of course,I suppose one should consider the intended purpose. Anyone
sailing offshore should buy lexan. Anyone sailing offshore shoud also buy
life insurance a life raft epirb and a bigger boat.
Rennie
>From: david <galvind@...>______________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: windows for pilot house
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:03:47 -0800
>
>Bill,
>Your puzzlement is due to your misunderstanding of the properties of the
>various
>types of glass. Quoting from _Modern Wooden Yacht Construction_, by John
>Guzzwell
>(International Marine, 1979, page 195): "....Safety glass, the type used in
>automotive windshields, is a laminated sheet glass and can also be used
>here....As the name implies, safety glass will not shatter into jagged
>pieces
>when broken, but it really is not very strong, and if used, it would be
>wise to
>have protective shutters if the panes are large and the vessel is going
>offshore.
>
> "Another type of glass is usually reserved for the glazing of
>windshields or
>large exposed windows. Known as armored or tempered glass, it is a plate
>glass
>that is heat-treated and cooled rapidly to make it almost indestructible."
> Guzzwell later does allow that safety glass can be used in small
>inland
>vessels. My concern is that a boat like Micro Navigator, although presently
>intended for inshore motoring, may eventually find itself with its designed
>sails
>out on the ocean, doing what it was originally designed to do, perhaps
>under new
>ownership. It is notable that Bolger specifies tempered glass, and not
>safety
>glass, for use in the forward facing windows of pilothouses that would use
>windshield wipers. I am grateful to John McDaniel for noting the new
>hard-coated
>Lexan that will, hopefully, tolerate wipers. Lacking proof of this,
>however, I
>would opt for high strength tempered glass on my own boat, as the material
>is
>proven in this application, and tempered glass is probably cost competitive
>with
>"hard finished" Lexan. I Am sure that the Lexan is, pound for pound,
>considerably
>stronger than the tempered glass, but I have spent many years pearing over
>and
>around boat windsields of Lexan and Plexiglass that have been rendered all
>but
>opaque by windshield wipers, so I remain to be convinced that Lexan will
>work,
>Thanks
>david
>Btw: You can learn more than you ever wanted to know about glass at:
><http://www.cmog.org/Education/edglass.htm>. Tempered glass and it's
>properties
>are discussed there in a nontechnical manner.
>
>Wmrpage@...wrote:
>
> > I am puzzled as to why David ruled out auto safety glass. Tempered
>glass may
> > be marginally stronger than regular plate glass, but its chief benefit,
>I
> > believe, is the difference in fracture characteristics - i.e. it
>fractures
> > into relatively small granules, rather than large, potentially lethal
>shards.
> > Auto safety glass has the advantage that the fragments are held in
>place by
> > plastic, surely an even better deal. Flat panes of safety glass should
>be
> > available at reasonable prices at any "auto recycling center" Cheaper
>that UV
> > protected Lexan, I would venture to guess, but also heavier. Auto glass
> > companies can readily cut panes to desired size. I recall my father
>having
> > (new) flat panes cut at such an establishment for replacement
>windshields on
> > a runabout he was restoring. I don't remember the cost, but it seemed
>quite
> > reasonable to me at the time.
> >
> > Bill in semi-tropical MN (71 degrees F!! I'm starting to get seriously
> > concerned that global warming may become a problem in my lifetime!)
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
> > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
> > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
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>
>
>
>
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Stan,
If you do go with the plastic window, 2 things I learned from motorcycle
windshields:
- Use liquid auto wax on them to help reduce the amount of rain/spay
sitting on the window. It won't work as well as for my bike -- you should
have a little less apparent wind :) . The wax also makes it easier to clean
the windows without scratching.
- When waxing, wipe one side vertically and the other horizontally. That
way you'll know whether to be inside or out when trying to clear that last
streak of wax.
Best of luck with your boat. I've enjoyed listening in on the impressive
combined creativity of the list.
Larry
--- From should-be-sunny Southern Oregon where the snow is way too far down
the mountains.
If you do go with the plastic window, 2 things I learned from motorcycle
windshields:
- Use liquid auto wax on them to help reduce the amount of rain/spay
sitting on the window. It won't work as well as for my bike -- you should
have a little less apparent wind :) . The wax also makes it easier to clean
the windows without scratching.
- When waxing, wipe one side vertically and the other horizontally. That
way you'll know whether to be inside or out when trying to clear that last
streak of wax.
Best of luck with your boat. I've enjoyed listening in on the impressive
combined creativity of the list.
Larry
--- From should-be-sunny Southern Oregon where the snow is way too far down
the mountains.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stan Muller <smuller@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: windows for pilot house
> Thanks one and all, for the help on the material selection for the pilot
> house windows. Based upon budget constraints, and not necessarily the
> best for the job, it looks as I will go acrylic, all around and not have
> the windshield wiper. If it gets bad enough to need one, I'll use the
> other option, anchor. I love to fish in the rain. ;-)
> Thanks again for the responses, Stan SG.
> PS: I can't get used to how great it is to have the availability of the
> knowledge on this list as a building resource.
>
I am puzzled as to why David ruled out auto safety glass. Tempered glass may
be marginally stronger than regular plate glass, but its chief benefit, I
believe, is the difference in fracture characteristics - i.e. it fractures
into relatively small granules, rather than large, potentially lethal shards.
Auto safety glass has the advantage that the fragments are held in place by
plastic, surely an even better deal. Flat panes of safety glass should be
available at reasonable prices at any "auto recycling center" Cheaper that UV
protected Lexan, I would venture to guess, but also heavier. Auto glass
companies can readily cut panes to desired size. I recall my father having
(new) flat panes cut at such an establishment for replacement windshields on
a runabout he was restoring. I don't remember the cost, but it seemed quite
reasonable to me at the time.
Bill in semi-tropical MN (71 degrees F!! I'm starting to get seriously
concerned that global warming may become a problem in my lifetime!)
be marginally stronger than regular plate glass, but its chief benefit, I
believe, is the difference in fracture characteristics - i.e. it fractures
into relatively small granules, rather than large, potentially lethal shards.
Auto safety glass has the advantage that the fragments are held in place by
plastic, surely an even better deal. Flat panes of safety glass should be
available at reasonable prices at any "auto recycling center" Cheaper that UV
protected Lexan, I would venture to guess, but also heavier. Auto glass
companies can readily cut panes to desired size. I recall my father having
(new) flat panes cut at such an establishment for replacement windshields on
a runabout he was restoring. I don't remember the cost, but it seemed quite
reasonable to me at the time.
Bill in semi-tropical MN (71 degrees F!! I'm starting to get seriously
concerned that global warming may become a problem in my lifetime!)
I wouldn't necessarily give up on the glass option.
It should be possible to dig around for an auto glass alternative in a
junkyard, an auto parts store, or a catalog like J.C. Whitney. Glass
for cars is certainly appropriate from a safety and uv perspective.
I see a lot of delivery vans, post office minivans, old cars etc. with
small, flat side windows or windows near the driver's feet. Of course,
you might have to fill in with plexiglass or accept a smaller glass
area.
Just an idea, but that's what I would do.
Matthew
stan muller <smulle-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3516
It should be possible to dig around for an auto glass alternative in a
junkyard, an auto parts store, or a catalog like J.C. Whitney. Glass
for cars is certainly appropriate from a safety and uv perspective.
I see a lot of delivery vans, post office minivans, old cars etc. with
small, flat side windows or windows near the driver's feet. Of course,
you might have to fill in with plexiglass or accept a smaller glass
area.
Just an idea, but that's what I would do.
Matthew
stan muller <smulle-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3516
> Thanks one and all, for the help on the material selection for thepilot
> house windows. Based upon budget constraints, and not necessarily thehave
> best for the job, it looks as I will go acrylic, all around and not
> the windshield wiper. If it gets bad enough to need one, I'll use thethe
> other option, anchor. I love to fish in the rain. ;-)
> Thanks again for the responses, Stan SG.
> PS: I can't get used to how great it is to have the availability of
> knowledge on this list as a building resource.
Thanks one and all, for the help on the material selection for the pilot
house windows. Based upon budget constraints, and not necessarily the
best for the job, it looks as I will go acrylic, all around and not have
the windshield wiper. If it gets bad enough to need one, I'll use the
other option, anchor. I love to fish in the rain. ;-)
Thanks again for the responses, Stan SG.
PS: I can't get used to how great it is to have the availability of the
knowledge on this list as a building resource.
house windows. Based upon budget constraints, and not necessarily the
best for the job, it looks as I will go acrylic, all around and not have
the windshield wiper. If it gets bad enough to need one, I'll use the
other option, anchor. I love to fish in the rain. ;-)
Thanks again for the responses, Stan SG.
PS: I can't get used to how great it is to have the availability of the
knowledge on this list as a building resource.
This sounds good, Clyde.
the UV-protected stuff cost four times as much. Wow! Go figure.
Gregg
--
Gregg Shadduck -- River Access, Mpls. MN -- S/V Surprise, St. Paul, MN
> I have learned from a home made window in my house, that one side ofBut when I bought a sheet of 3/8" Lexan for about $240 I was told that
> the lexan was UV protected and the other wasn't, so when I cut the 4X8
> sheet diagonially for double glazing, one side fogged in a couple
> years. Should have bought 2 sheets.
the UV-protected stuff cost four times as much. Wow! Go figure.
Gregg
--
Gregg Shadduck -- River Access, Mpls. MN -- S/V Surprise, St. Paul, MN
I have learned from a home made window in my house, that one side of the
lexan was UV protected and the other wasn't, so when I cut the 4X8 sheet
diagonially for double glazing, one side fogged in a couple years. Should
have bought 2 sheets. Clyde
Gordon Couger wrote:
Lexan is a great deal stronger than plex and weathers
better. Both scratch easily. On a boat I would always
go with lexan.
Gordon W5RED
G. C. Couger gcouger@... Stillwater, OK
www.couger.com/gcouger
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne
Gretzky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rennie Archibald" <shineon2000@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:52 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: windows for pilot house
>
> Stan:
>
> I was at TAP Plastic yesterday buying a replacement piece for my
forehatch.
> The folks tell me lexan is a little more flexible than acrylic
(plexiglass.
> Scratch resistance is minimally diferent. When Acrylic breaks
you get big
> shards. Not terribly dangerous. I'm not considering glass.
Acrylic is
1/2
> the cost of lexan. I wwent for acrylic. It's drillable.
I'm planning to
> install the piece tomorrow. Will let you know if I have difficulties.
>
> Rennie
>
> P.S. I too am building a Navigator. Did you build from
scratch or are
you
> converting a Micro? I've got the frames cut and glued and partially
coated
> with epoxy. The bottom and sides will wait a little while until
I can
> finish a dinghy I'm building. Need some room in the garage. A break
inthe
> rain would help!
> >From: Stan Muller <smuller@...>
> >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
> >To: bolger@egroups.com
> >Subject: [bolger] windows for pilot house
> >Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:08:07 -0600
> >
> >Help; Advice please! I have started to frame out the pilot house,
and
> >have run into my first problem. What should I use for the windows?
> >Lexan, Plexiglas, plate glass? What is the best buy, ease of cutting,
> >scratch resistant etc.? The windows are going to be mounted in groves
to
> >be able to slide open and closed.
> > The next question is where can I buy it? I'm
in a little town where
> >you can't even buy anchor nails, so is there any place on the net
that
> >you know of where I can buy the window material?
> > Thank you one and all for any help you can give.
In appreciation for
> >the help, I promise that while in my Micro-Navigator-birdwatcher-Tug,
I
> >will return any MJ I see to an upright position, have free dry towels
> >and hot coffee on board for the captain and crew of said stricken
> >vessel. ;-)
> >Stan, SG
> >PS; for anyone that feel they need additional flotation, and doesn't
> >want to use up space, I am trying to work out a design for a either
> >automatic, or manual pull release for a small Co2 bottle and a large
> >truck or tractor inner tube that would fit folded up in the frames
of
> >the cabin top, and fill up on the inside of the cabin when activated.
> >This would give flotation where you need it, up high in the boat.
If
> >anyone is interested, drop me an email and as soon as the work is
done,
> >I'll send you a copy of the plans.
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
> >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
> >0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
> >Apply NOW!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/5/_/3457/_/952491178/
> >
> >-- Check out your group's private Chat room
> >--http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
> as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees.
> Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/952498357/
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%
Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/936/5/_/3457/_/952499304/
-- Talk to your group with your own voice!
--http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
Lexan is a great deal stronger than plex and weathers
better. Both scratch easily. On a boat I would always
go with lexan.
Gordon W5RED
G. C. Cougergcouger@...Stillwater, OK
www.couger.com/gcouger
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
better. Both scratch easily. On a boat I would always
go with lexan.
Gordon W5RED
G. C. Cougergcouger@...Stillwater, OK
www.couger.com/gcouger
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rennie Archibald" <shineon2000@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:52 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: windows for pilot house
>
> Stan:
>
> I was at TAP Plastic yesterday buying a replacement piece for my
forehatch.
> The folks tell me lexan is a little more flexible than acrylic
(plexiglass.
> Scratch resistance is minimally diferent. When Acrylic breaks you get big
> shards. Not terribly dangerous. I'm not considering glass. Acrylic is
1/2
> the cost of lexan. I wwent for acrylic. It's drillable. I'm planning to
> install the piece tomorrow. Will let you know if I have difficulties.
>
> Rennie
>
> P.S. I too am building a Navigator. Did you build from scratch or are
you
> converting a Micro? I've got the frames cut and glued and partially
coated
> with epoxy. The bottom and sides will wait a little while until I can
> finish a dinghy I'm building. Need some room in the garage. A break inthe
> rain would help!
> >From: Stan Muller <smuller@...>
> >Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
> >To:bolger@egroups.com
> >Subject: [bolger] windows for pilot house
> >Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:08:07 -0600
> >
> >Help; Advice please! I have started to frame out the pilot house, and
> >have run into my first problem. What should I use for the windows?
> >Lexan, Plexiglas, plate glass? What is the best buy, ease of cutting,
> >scratch resistant etc.? The windows are going to be mounted in groves to
> >be able to slide open and closed.
> > The next question is where can I buy it? I'm in a little town where
> >you can't even buy anchor nails, so is there any place on the net that
> >you know of where I can buy the window material?
> > Thank you one and all for any help you can give. In appreciation for
> >the help, I promise that while in my Micro-Navigator-birdwatcher-Tug, I
> >will return any MJ I see to an upright position, have free dry towels
> >and hot coffee on board for the captain and crew of said stricken
> >vessel. ;-)
> >Stan, SG
> >PS; for anyone that feel they need additional flotation, and doesn't
> >want to use up space, I am trying to work out a design for a either
> >automatic, or manual pull release for a small Co2 bottle and a large
> >truck or tractor inner tube that would fit folded up in the frames of
> >the cabin top, and fill up on the inside of the cabin when activated.
> >This would give flotation where you need it, up high in the boat. If
> >anyone is interested, drop me an email and as soon as the work is done,
> >I'll send you a copy of the plans.
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
> >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
> >0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
> >Apply NOW!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/5/_/3457/_/952491178/
> >
> >-- Check out your group's private Chat room
> >--http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
> as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees.
> Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/952498357/
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
Stan:
I was at TAP Plastic yesterday buying a replacement piece for my forehatch.
The folks tell me lexan is a little more flexible than acrylic (plexiglass.
Scratch resistance is minimally diferent. When Acrylic breaks you get big
shards. Not terribly dangerous. I'm not considering glass. Acrylic is 1/2
the cost of lexan. I wwent for acrylic. It's drillable. I'm planning to
install the piece tomorrow. Will let you know if I have difficulties.
Rennie
P.S. I too am building a Navigator. Did you build from scratch or are you
converting a Micro? I've got the frames cut and glued and partially coated
with epoxy. The bottom and sides will wait a little while until I can
finish a dinghy I'm building. Need some room in the garage. A break inthe
rain would help!
I was at TAP Plastic yesterday buying a replacement piece for my forehatch.
The folks tell me lexan is a little more flexible than acrylic (plexiglass.
Scratch resistance is minimally diferent. When Acrylic breaks you get big
shards. Not terribly dangerous. I'm not considering glass. Acrylic is 1/2
the cost of lexan. I wwent for acrylic. It's drillable. I'm planning to
install the piece tomorrow. Will let you know if I have difficulties.
Rennie
P.S. I too am building a Navigator. Did you build from scratch or are you
converting a Micro? I've got the frames cut and glued and partially coated
with epoxy. The bottom and sides will wait a little while until I can
finish a dinghy I'm building. Need some room in the garage. A break inthe
rain would help!
>From: Stan Muller <smuller@...>______________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] windows for pilot house
>Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:08:07 -0600
>
>Help; Advice please! I have started to frame out the pilot house, and
>have run into my first problem. What should I use for the windows?
>Lexan, Plexiglas, plate glass? What is the best buy, ease of cutting,
>scratch resistant etc.? The windows are going to be mounted in groves to
>be able to slide open and closed.
> The next question is where can I buy it? I'm in a little town where
>you can't even buy anchor nails, so is there any place on the net that
>you know of where I can buy the window material?
> Thank you one and all for any help you can give. In appreciation for
>the help, I promise that while in my Micro-Navigator-birdwatcher-Tug, I
>will return any MJ I see to an upright position, have free dry towels
>and hot coffee on board for the captain and crew of said stricken
>vessel. ;-)
>Stan, SG
>PS; for anyone that feel they need additional flotation, and doesn't
>want to use up space, I am trying to work out a design for a either
>automatic, or manual pull release for a small Co2 bottle and a large
>truck or tractor inner tube that would fit folded up in the frames of
>the cabin top, and fill up on the inside of the cabin when activated.
>This would give flotation where you need it, up high in the boat. If
>anyone is interested, drop me an email and as soon as the work is done,
>I'll send you a copy of the plans.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
>Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
>0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
>Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/5/_/3457/_/952491178/
>
>-- Check out your group's private Chat room
>--http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
>
>
Two cents worth . . .
Putting thoughts of nasty jagged shards to one side, glass is heavy and
you'll be carrying the weight fairly high. Lexan (and similar) is hard to
break, but not that hard to scratch. Plexiglass isn't as tough, but has
natural UV stability. You'll find plastics materials properties at
http://www.indplastic.com/products.htm
and an online store at
http://store.yahoo.com/ecomplastics/index.html
Sign makers use a lot of sheet plastic, and will usually cut you a good
deal. Maybe there's one in the next 'little town' along the road?
Derek
Putting thoughts of nasty jagged shards to one side, glass is heavy and
you'll be carrying the weight fairly high. Lexan (and similar) is hard to
break, but not that hard to scratch. Plexiglass isn't as tough, but has
natural UV stability. You'll find plastics materials properties at
http://www.indplastic.com/products.htm
and an online store at
http://store.yahoo.com/ecomplastics/index.html
Sign makers use a lot of sheet plastic, and will usually cut you a good
deal. Maybe there's one in the next 'little town' along the road?
Derek
Help; Advice please! I have started to frame out the pilot house, and
have run into my first problem. What should I use for the windows?
Lexan, Plexiglas, plate glass? What is the best buy, ease of cutting,
scratch resistant etc.? The windows are going to be mounted in groves to
be able to slide open and closed.
The next question is where can I buy it? I'm in a little town where
you can't even buy anchor nails, so is there any place on the net that
you know of where I can buy the window material?
Thank you one and all for any help you can give. In appreciation for
the help, I promise that while in my Micro-Navigator-birdwatcher-Tug, I
will return any MJ I see to an upright position, have free dry towels
and hot coffee on board for the captain and crew of said stricken
vessel. ;-)
Stan, SG
PS; for anyone that feel they need additional flotation, and doesn't
want to use up space, I am trying to work out a design for a either
automatic, or manual pull release for a small Co2 bottle and a large
truck or tractor inner tube that would fit folded up in the frames of
the cabin top, and fill up on the inside of the cabin when activated.
This would give flotation where you need it, up high in the boat. If
anyone is interested, drop me an email and as soon as the work is done,
I'll send you a copy of the plans.
have run into my first problem. What should I use for the windows?
Lexan, Plexiglas, plate glass? What is the best buy, ease of cutting,
scratch resistant etc.? The windows are going to be mounted in groves to
be able to slide open and closed.
The next question is where can I buy it? I'm in a little town where
you can't even buy anchor nails, so is there any place on the net that
you know of where I can buy the window material?
Thank you one and all for any help you can give. In appreciation for
the help, I promise that while in my Micro-Navigator-birdwatcher-Tug, I
will return any MJ I see to an upright position, have free dry towels
and hot coffee on board for the captain and crew of said stricken
vessel. ;-)
Stan, SG
PS; for anyone that feel they need additional flotation, and doesn't
want to use up space, I am trying to work out a design for a either
automatic, or manual pull release for a small Co2 bottle and a large
truck or tractor inner tube that would fit folded up in the frames of
the cabin top, and fill up on the inside of the cabin when activated.
This would give flotation where you need it, up high in the boat. If
anyone is interested, drop me an email and as soon as the work is done,
I'll send you a copy of the plans.