Re: dutchman ...
A 63' of Illinois' displacement would take some big party to turn
over. IMO the center spine/keel made of several layers of ply would
be glued up resting in a big concrete floor. It might be handled by
a crew with some rented equipment for turning to glass up really
good, but for the most part, she'd need to be built upright.
IMO it may be a good hull to redesign in steel for the most basic
hull, then fit her decks and interior in wood. IMO any local tank
constructor could build the basic hull.
over. IMO the center spine/keel made of several layers of ply would
be glued up resting in a big concrete floor. It might be handled by
a crew with some rented equipment for turning to glass up really
good, but for the most part, she'd need to be built upright.
IMO it may be a good hull to redesign in steel for the most basic
hull, then fit her decks and interior in wood. IMO any local tank
constructor could build the basic hull.
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rund" <trund1024@y...> wrote:
> Does Phil include instructions on constructing a building jig for
the
> Illinois? Is it built upside down like the windermere?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
> wrote:
> > Illinois is 63' long, has a bridge clearance of about 11'6",
draws
> > about 18", and a beam of about 10'. Puffer would seem to offer
> > similar living space on a wider format.
> >
> > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
> >
> > Illinois' 2nd front mounted outboard would be critical to her
> > maneuverability.
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan"
<peterlenihan@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...>
wrote:
> > > > Has anyone mentioned a design which I think was called
Puffer,
> > > meant as
> > > > a simple liveaboard?
> > >
> > >
> > > Puffer,which can be viewed here,:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/BIG%20BOLGER%
20BOATS/
> > >
> > > may be a wee bit too big for small canals and low bridges with
> its'
> > > beam of 14' and an above waterline height of 14'.Also,she is
over
> > 1'
> > > foot deeper in the water then most of Bolgers' narrower
cruising
> > > sharpies :-)
> > > Despite these"failings",she is a most alluring concept for a
> > spacious
> > > live-a-board and would undoubtably make for a most gracious
means
> > of
> > > travelling/living on the water.
> > > I sure wish our Hero would stop coming up with such
> > > attractive,sensible and buildable designs for us amateurs!
> Doesn't
> > he
> > > know that we can't build them all and having them rubbed in our
> > > faces, through vehicles like MAIBs, is only driving some of us
> > crazy
> > > with distraction?!?!?!
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Peter Lenihan,already crazy but refusing to be distracted from
> his
> > > WINDERMERE,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
posting a correction since most would know it was a typo......but
thanks just the same.......I guess perks are what one could expect if
the Pert chart pleases the big boys :-)
Peter Lenihan
> Ah, Peter. That's spoken like a true manager. Those of us who hadto keep
> a project on track used PERT charts (Program Evaluation and ReviewI saw it only after I posted Roger and just figured it wasn't worth
> Technique).
>
> Roger (I love Freudian slips.)
> derbyrm@s...
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
>
posting a correction since most would know it was a typo......but
thanks just the same.......I guess perks are what one could expect if
the Pert chart pleases the big boys :-)
Peter Lenihan
Ah, Peter. That's spoken like a true manager. Those of us who had to keep
a project on track used PERT charts (Program Evaluation and Review
Technique).
Roger (I love Freudian slips.)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
a project on track used PERT charts (Program Evaluation and Review
Technique).
Roger (I love Freudian slips.)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
>
> Tom,
<snip>
> For example; one should also possess an ability to perk chart a large
> project,see the whole process both as individual elements and as an
> integrated whole before building,and if not equiped with a building
> crew and appropriate budget, be prepared to see the light at the end
> of a multi-year tunnel.
<snip>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rund" <trund1024@y...> wrote:
Haven't seen the plans but the bottom may indeed have to be
assembled upside down on some sort of jig.With the half inch plywood
called for and the bottom being 5 1/2" inches thick along the center
line(a shoe,no doubt,and not the real thickness of the entire bottom
structure) a goodly portion of the 450 odd sheets of required plywood
for the boat is going into that massive bottom panel assembly.Bolger
does warn that the building of this boat will require the use of some
heavy equipement rentals and I suspect that a crane to flip the
bottom over is one of those rentals.
I also further suspect that this boat is HUGE in real life and
will require more then a firm grasp of basic wood working skills.For
example; one should also possess an ability to perk chart a large
project,see the whole process both as individual elements and as an
integrated whole before building,and if not equiped with a building
crew and appropriate budget, be prepared to see the light at the end
of a multi-year tunnel.
Consider that a Devlin designed stitch and glue plywood Sockeye
45 at 38000 lbs displacement consumed 13000 manhours,in a pro shop
with building crew,over a 15 month period.A solo builder,not set up
for production work,would have to work at least 4 1/2 years at eight
hours per day and NEVER take a day off to reach the same number of
hours.Factor in time down for family,life,work etc and it is not
unreasonable for this project to double in time.9 years to build a
45' plywood boat............Now think about ILLINOIS again and
visualize what you may be up against.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who would rather see a thousand BRICKS then one broken
hearted fellow with a large pile of rotting ILLINOIS lumber..........
> Does Phil include instructions on constructing a building jig forthe
> Illinois? Is it built upside down like the windermere?Tom,
>
> Tom
Haven't seen the plans but the bottom may indeed have to be
assembled upside down on some sort of jig.With the half inch plywood
called for and the bottom being 5 1/2" inches thick along the center
line(a shoe,no doubt,and not the real thickness of the entire bottom
structure) a goodly portion of the 450 odd sheets of required plywood
for the boat is going into that massive bottom panel assembly.Bolger
does warn that the building of this boat will require the use of some
heavy equipement rentals and I suspect that a crane to flip the
bottom over is one of those rentals.
I also further suspect that this boat is HUGE in real life and
will require more then a firm grasp of basic wood working skills.For
example; one should also possess an ability to perk chart a large
project,see the whole process both as individual elements and as an
integrated whole before building,and if not equiped with a building
crew and appropriate budget, be prepared to see the light at the end
of a multi-year tunnel.
Consider that a Devlin designed stitch and glue plywood Sockeye
45 at 38000 lbs displacement consumed 13000 manhours,in a pro shop
with building crew,over a 15 month period.A solo builder,not set up
for production work,would have to work at least 4 1/2 years at eight
hours per day and NEVER take a day off to reach the same number of
hours.Factor in time down for family,life,work etc and it is not
unreasonable for this project to double in time.9 years to build a
45' plywood boat............Now think about ILLINOIS again and
visualize what you may be up against.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who would rather see a thousand BRICKS then one broken
hearted fellow with a large pile of rotting ILLINOIS lumber..........
--- Tom Rund wrote:
You probably would find it easier to flip
the bottom after doing your bottom finish,
but I bet you could figure out a way to
flip it as three 21 foot sections,
and join the pieces lying on your back.
> Does Phil include instructionsI believe not.
> on constructing a
> building jig for the
> Illinois? Is it built
> upside down like the
> windermere?
You probably would find it easier to flip
the bottom after doing your bottom finish,
but I bet you could figure out a way to
flip it as three 21 foot sections,
and join the pieces lying on your back.
Does Phil include instructions on constructing a building jig for the
Illinois? Is it built upside down like the windermere?
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
Illinois? Is it built upside down like the windermere?
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
> Illinois is 63' long, has a bridge clearance of about 11'6", drawsits'
> about 18", and a beam of about 10'. Puffer would seem to offer
> similar living space on a wider format.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
>
> Illinois' 2nd front mounted outboard would be critical to her
> maneuverability.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
> wrote:
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> > > Has anyone mentioned a design which I think was called Puffer,
> > meant as
> > > a simple liveaboard?
> >
> >
> > Puffer,which can be viewed here,:
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/BIG%20BOLGER%20BOATS/
> >
> > may be a wee bit too big for small canals and low bridges with
> > beam of 14' and an above waterline height of 14'.Also,she is overDoesn't
> 1'
> > foot deeper in the water then most of Bolgers' narrower cruising
> > sharpies :-)
> > Despite these"failings",she is a most alluring concept for a
> spacious
> > live-a-board and would undoubtably make for a most gracious means
> of
> > travelling/living on the water.
> > I sure wish our Hero would stop coming up with such
> > attractive,sensible and buildable designs for us amateurs!
> hehis
> > know that we can't build them all and having them rubbed in our
> > faces, through vehicles like MAIBs, is only driving some of us
> crazy
> > with distraction?!?!?!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Peter Lenihan,already crazy but refusing to be distracted from
> > WINDERMERE,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.........
Illinois is so long that I
figure it would need to stay
at an anchorage most of the
time. Puffer is clever in
that it is sized to berth
in a conventional marina,
taking two side by side slips.
Both of these boats are huge,
sized to be the equivalent of
city apartments, with balcony,
and million dollar views!
[at a fraction of the $$$]
With cell phone and fax, they
could both serve as a floating
home office.]
figure it would need to stay
at an anchorage most of the
time. Puffer is clever in
that it is sized to berth
in a conventional marina,
taking two side by side slips.
Both of these boats are huge,
sized to be the equivalent of
city apartments, with balcony,
and million dollar views!
[at a fraction of the $$$]
With cell phone and fax, they
could both serve as a floating
home office.]
Illinois is 63' long, has a bridge clearance of about 11'6", draws
about 18", and a beam of about 10'. Puffer would seem to offer
similar living space on a wider format.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
Illinois' 2nd front mounted outboard would be critical to her
maneuverability.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
about 18", and a beam of about 10'. Puffer would seem to offer
similar living space on a wider format.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
Illinois' 2nd front mounted outboard would be critical to her
maneuverability.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:1'
> > Has anyone mentioned a design which I think was called Puffer,
> meant as
> > a simple liveaboard?
>
>
> Puffer,which can be viewed here,:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/BIG%20BOLGER%20BOATS/
>
> may be a wee bit too big for small canals and low bridges with its'
> beam of 14' and an above waterline height of 14'.Also,she is over
> foot deeper in the water then most of Bolgers' narrower cruisingspacious
> sharpies :-)
> Despite these"failings",she is a most alluring concept for a
> live-a-board and would undoubtably make for a most gracious meansof
> travelling/living on the water.he
> I sure wish our Hero would stop coming up with such
> attractive,sensible and buildable designs for us amateurs! Doesn't
> know that we can't build them all and having them rubbed in ourcrazy
> faces, through vehicles like MAIBs, is only driving some of us
> with distraction?!?!?!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,already crazy but refusing to be distracted from his
> WINDERMERE,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
RE liveaboards by Bolger, There are many, for both sail, inboard, and
outboard. I find myself longing for an Illinois, with a slight
stretch to accomodate a diesel outdrive of about 125hp to give the
boat some greater travel ability, heat, and power. I like Bolger's
philosophy in designing Illinois as expressed in MAIB, but want the
ability to get up and down the Illinois and Missouri rivers a bit
better.
Puffer appears shorter and beamier but with the same general design
philosophy.
I would consider a Wyoming or even a Tennessee, for no more than a
single year of travel as described. More likely a 6-9 month stay.
IN the sail category, the AS29 and Loose Moose are suspects.
> Has anyone mentioned a design which I think was called Puffer,meant as
> a simple liveaboard?There is a drawing of Puffer in Bolger2/Files/Big Bolger Boats.
RE liveaboards by Bolger, There are many, for both sail, inboard, and
outboard. I find myself longing for an Illinois, with a slight
stretch to accomodate a diesel outdrive of about 125hp to give the
boat some greater travel ability, heat, and power. I like Bolger's
philosophy in designing Illinois as expressed in MAIB, but want the
ability to get up and down the Illinois and Missouri rivers a bit
better.
Puffer appears shorter and beamier but with the same general design
philosophy.
I would consider a Wyoming or even a Tennessee, for no more than a
single year of travel as described. More likely a 6-9 month stay.
IN the sail category, the AS29 and Loose Moose are suspects.
--- Peter Lenihan
We should encourage dutchman,
or someone to build a Puffer!
That design is only partially
finished, and PB&F are waiting
for a builder, to make it pay
to complete that design, a
favorite of mine.
> Puffer...is a houseboat.
We should encourage dutchman,
or someone to build a Puffer!
That design is only partially
finished, and PB&F are waiting
for a builder, to make it pay
to complete that design, a
favorite of mine.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/BIG%20BOLGER%20BOATS/
may be a wee bit too big for small canals and low bridges with its'
beam of 14' and an above waterline height of 14'.Also,she is over 1'
foot deeper in the water then most of Bolgers' narrower cruising
sharpies :-)
Despite these"failings",she is a most alluring concept for a spacious
live-a-board and would undoubtably make for a most gracious means of
travelling/living on the water.
I sure wish our Hero would stop coming up with such
attractive,sensible and buildable designs for us amateurs! Doesn't he
know that we can't build them all and having them rubbed in our
faces, through vehicles like MAIBs, is only driving some of us crazy
with distraction?!?!?!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,already crazy but refusing to be distracted from his
WINDERMERE,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.........
> Has anyone mentioned a design which I think was called Puffer,meant as
> a simple liveaboard?Puffer,which can be viewed here,:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/BIG%20BOLGER%20BOATS/
may be a wee bit too big for small canals and low bridges with its'
beam of 14' and an above waterline height of 14'.Also,she is over 1'
foot deeper in the water then most of Bolgers' narrower cruising
sharpies :-)
Despite these"failings",she is a most alluring concept for a spacious
live-a-board and would undoubtably make for a most gracious means of
travelling/living on the water.
I sure wish our Hero would stop coming up with such
attractive,sensible and buildable designs for us amateurs! Doesn't he
know that we can't build them all and having them rubbed in our
faces, through vehicles like MAIBs, is only driving some of us crazy
with distraction?!?!?!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,already crazy but refusing to be distracted from his
WINDERMERE,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.........
Has anyone mentioned a design which I think was called Puffer, meant as
a simple liveaboard?
a simple liveaboard?
> I stumbled uponn is that theIn America, shantyboats are flat-bottomed.
>bolger-design goes for the flatbottommed boat, and mr.bolger's ideas
>about the reasons behind that are sounding quite logic to me ... but
>that the 'traditional' shantyboats all have a slightly more curved
>hull ...?!? I Wonder why that is ).
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "alternateuser2001"
<alternateuser2001@y...> wrote:
And to think I thought this was about spar making and how to make
knots disappear..............
Anyhow, I second Bruces' suggestion for either a CHAMPLAIN or a
WINDERMERE for total comfort and drop dead classic looks.Mind you I
am a bit biased having been aboard an exquisitely well rendered
CHAMPLAIN (Han Van Pelt,owner/builder) and in the throes of ecstasy
building WINDERMERE.
Both the CHAMPLAIN and WINDERMERE have fantastic mileage,storage
capacity and full standing headroom. WINDERMERE is even insulated for
year round living-a-board.With their shallow draft and narrow beams
these canal/esturary cruisers offer comforts unheard of in similar
sized boats.Check them out :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who lost the cheese off his cracker years ago,from
along the strangely cold again shores of the St.Lawrence........
<alternateuser2001@y...> wrote:
And to think I thought this was about spar making and how to make
knots disappear..............
Anyhow, I second Bruces' suggestion for either a CHAMPLAIN or a
WINDERMERE for total comfort and drop dead classic looks.Mind you I
am a bit biased having been aboard an exquisitely well rendered
CHAMPLAIN (Han Van Pelt,owner/builder) and in the throes of ecstasy
building WINDERMERE.
Both the CHAMPLAIN and WINDERMERE have fantastic mileage,storage
capacity and full standing headroom. WINDERMERE is even insulated for
year round living-a-board.With their shallow draft and narrow beams
these canal/esturary cruisers offer comforts unheard of in similar
sized boats.Check them out :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who lost the cheese off his cracker years ago,from
along the strangely cold again shores of the St.Lawrence........
--- alternateuser2001 wrote:
There are dozens of Bolger boats that
might meet your needs. I presume
you are thinking of an outboard
motor power boat.
How many manhours are you willing
to spend? What is your budget?
Lacking answers to these questions,
may I suggest Bolger's Champlain.
There are many other options, Idaho,
Tennesee, Dakota, Windermere, Wyoming,
Minnesota. [for plywood options]
'curvy' Merlin/Marina Cruiser, 'One
Man Live-a-Board', and others that
are slipping my mind right now.
Building a smaller boat now, to learn
on, and bigger boat later, to live on
is probably a good idea.
actually have a lot of curve in
their bottoms. But it appears flat
because plywood only bends in one
direction at a time.
The 'curvy' required planks, or strips,
and if plywood is used, it is cut
first in to narrow planks.
> One question ... I like to...a trailerable
> build myself a kind of 'shantyboat'
> and 'still-boat-looking' houseboatYour question is a bit 'open'.
There are dozens of Bolger boats that
might meet your needs. I presume
you are thinking of an outboard
motor power boat.
How many manhours are you willing
to spend? What is your budget?
Lacking answers to these questions,
may I suggest Bolger's Champlain.
There are many other options, Idaho,
Tennesee, Dakota, Windermere, Wyoming,
Minnesota. [for plywood options]
'curvy' Merlin/Marina Cruiser, 'One
Man Live-a-Board', and others that
are slipping my mind right now.
Building a smaller boat now, to learn
on, and bigger boat later, to live on
is probably a good idea.
> Question is ; do I go forMost of the 'boxy' Bolger boats
> the flat bottom, or do I
> still choose a
> slightly more 'round' , curved one.
actually have a lot of curve in
their bottoms. But it appears flat
because plywood only bends in one
direction at a time.
The 'curvy' required planks, or strips,
and if plywood is used, it is cut
first in to narrow planks.
Sorry to barge in like that, in the middle off the discussion goin'
on inhere ... 'Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm impressed by
this group !; how busy it is inhere - Great !!
And thanks offcourse for having me here- I've been visiting quite a
few groups on yahoo about boat-building now, but this one 's by far
the most active around .Thanks also for sharing all the valuable
info, and pics - while getting deeper and deeper into this subject
the name "bolger" gotto pop up sooner or later I guess.
Real nice designs, and clever(!) too-something all too often
forgotten in the boating-business by my opinion.
One question I do want to ask you people if it's ok ... I like to
build myself a kind of 'shantyboat'...a trailerable and 'still-boat-
looking' houseboat so to speak ... Or as mr Bolger called it in one
of his designs : a "canalboat" . The purpose of her is to be at first
just a sort of 'weekender ' and 'vacationer' (to stay within bolger-
terminology ;),she will only come to travel the protected small
waters and canals -not deep, quiet waters. Eventually I want to try
and live on her permanently ...
Question is ; do I go for the flat bottom, or do I still choose a
slightly more 'round' , curved one.
I've tried to read as much as possible about the two designs and all
their plus and downsides ...but I still like an opnion or two on that
as well ...anyone ?? (one odd thing I stumbled uponn is that the
bolger-design goes for the flatbottommed boat, and mr.bolger's ideas
about the reasons behind that are sounding quite logic to me ... but
that the 'traditional' shantyboats all have a slightly more curved
hull ...?!? I Wonder why that is ).
Sincere greetings ,
M.Hulleman, the Netherlands
PS while us dutchies are quite the waterloving typ ... it goes
without saying that if anyone of you people is looking for anything
(brochures, pictures or other info ) about Holland regarding to the
subject that I will be more than happy to look for it overhere and
provide you with it !
on inhere ... 'Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm impressed by
this group !; how busy it is inhere - Great !!
And thanks offcourse for having me here- I've been visiting quite a
few groups on yahoo about boat-building now, but this one 's by far
the most active around .Thanks also for sharing all the valuable
info, and pics - while getting deeper and deeper into this subject
the name "bolger" gotto pop up sooner or later I guess.
Real nice designs, and clever(!) too-something all too often
forgotten in the boating-business by my opinion.
One question I do want to ask you people if it's ok ... I like to
build myself a kind of 'shantyboat'...a trailerable and 'still-boat-
looking' houseboat so to speak ... Or as mr Bolger called it in one
of his designs : a "canalboat" . The purpose of her is to be at first
just a sort of 'weekender ' and 'vacationer' (to stay within bolger-
terminology ;),she will only come to travel the protected small
waters and canals -not deep, quiet waters. Eventually I want to try
and live on her permanently ...
Question is ; do I go for the flat bottom, or do I still choose a
slightly more 'round' , curved one.
I've tried to read as much as possible about the two designs and all
their plus and downsides ...but I still like an opnion or two on that
as well ...anyone ?? (one odd thing I stumbled uponn is that the
bolger-design goes for the flatbottommed boat, and mr.bolger's ideas
about the reasons behind that are sounding quite logic to me ... but
that the 'traditional' shantyboats all have a slightly more curved
hull ...?!? I Wonder why that is ).
Sincere greetings ,
M.Hulleman, the Netherlands
PS while us dutchies are quite the waterloving typ ... it goes
without saying that if anyone of you people is looking for anything
(brochures, pictures or other info ) about Holland regarding to the
subject that I will be more than happy to look for it overhere and
provide you with it !