Re: Taped Seams Concern/Boat Status
If the epoxy hasn't been setting all that long, a cabinet scraper or a
blade removed from a hand plane can do a nice job of knocking off those
runs. No dust, just shavings. If the epoxy is still newish (2 or 3 days)
they (lots of people) say you can get a chemical bond without sanding,
just so the blush is washed off.
blade removed from a hand plane can do a nice job of knocking off those
runs. No dust, just shavings. If the epoxy is still newish (2 or 3 days)
they (lots of people) say you can get a chemical bond without sanding,
just so the blush is washed off.
>Tim Rohrer wrote:
>Rick,
>
>Thanks for the detailed post! Great info and I like
>the thoughts. I had not known about using fairing
>filler so I will try that. I also like that idea
>better than sanding. However, I have a few spots
>where the epoxy ran/slid. Would it be a good idea to
>knock those off with the grinder even if they are not
>real big?
>
>According to the West Systems guide, dried epoxy
>should be sanded to rough it up before application of
>a finishing coat of epoxy. I had *assumed* that was
>to ensure the new layer adhered well to the existing
>epoxy but what I am hearing you say is that is not
>necessary?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim
>
You mentioned WEST System epoxy literature, it should be there. Or go to
their site or Gougeon Bros. (sp?). and check it out.
But basically it's a compound that forms on the outermost surface of
some epoxy formulations during cure. More is released under high
humidity conditions and cooler temps. When real bad you can rub your
hand over the hardened epoxy and it feels greasy.. No problem as it is
soluble in clear water.... Most recommend water rinse with a light
scrubbing using a dishwashing type or Scotch abrasive pad. then rinse
again. . Some add soap of ammonia, but I'da know about that....
Nothing to fear, just something you need to deal with...
Rick
Tim Rohrer wrote:
their site or Gougeon Bros. (sp?). and check it out.
But basically it's a compound that forms on the outermost surface of
some epoxy formulations during cure. More is released under high
humidity conditions and cooler temps. When real bad you can rub your
hand over the hardened epoxy and it feels greasy.. No problem as it is
soluble in clear water.... Most recommend water rinse with a light
scrubbing using a dishwashing type or Scotch abrasive pad. then rinse
again. . Some add soap of ammonia, but I'da know about that....
Nothing to fear, just something you need to deal with...
Rick
Tim Rohrer wrote:
> Thanks. Since I'm learning so much, I have to ask[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> what is amine blush? You mentioned it before but I'm
> not familiar with that term.
>
> Wr, Tim
>
> --- sctree <sctree@...> wrote:
> [snip]
> > time I've seen epoxy peel off epoxy you could feel
> > the amine blush that
> > had been left on between the layers...
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
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Thanks. Since I'm learning so much, I have to ask
what is amine blush? You mentioned it before but I'm
not familiar with that term.
Wr, Tim
--- sctree <sctree@...> wrote:
[snip]
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what is amine blush? You mentioned it before but I'm
not familiar with that term.
Wr, Tim
--- sctree <sctree@...> wrote:
[snip]
> time I've seen epoxy peel off epoxy you could feel__________________________________
> the amine blush that
> had been left on between the layers...
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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Tim Rohrer wrote:
once final paint is on, but are not that hard to remove. So yes, try and
knock down the largest of them. A sharp scraper is good at this,
slightly warming the epoxy runs with a heating gun will soften them
making them easier to scrape off. Watch out for epoxy fumes and don't
overheat which can weaken the remaining epoxy. You can also use a
carefully controlled grinder. 3-M makes a "Paint and Rust" remover. It's
a coarse plastic wheel (looks like a black, hole filled sponge wheel)
that chucks into a drill for about $6 that works well but creates clouds
of nasty dust.. Or glue a cut open coarse grit sanding belt to a scrap
of 1/4" plywood. Once they are mostly gone, some epoxy with fairing
filler applied with a firm wide putty knife should finish hiding them.
something to it using more epoxy then yes, I'd sand. However all you are
adding is epoxy and whatever paint you coat the epoxy with. I don't see
the need for the added assurance of a better mechanical bond that
sanding would give you. Epoxy stick really well to epoxy... The only
time I've seen epoxy peel off epoxy you could feel the amine blush that
had been left on between the layers...
Rick
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Rick,These "drips" are hard to "hide" with fairing filler and really show up
>
> Thanks for the detailed post! Great info and I like
> the thoughts. I had not known about using fairing
> filler so I will try that. I also like that idea
> better than sanding. However, I have a few spots
> where the epoxy ran/slid. Would it be a good idea to
> knock those off with the grinder even if they are not
> real big?
once final paint is on, but are not that hard to remove. So yes, try and
knock down the largest of them. A sharp scraper is good at this,
slightly warming the epoxy runs with a heating gun will soften them
making them easier to scrape off. Watch out for epoxy fumes and don't
overheat which can weaken the remaining epoxy. You can also use a
carefully controlled grinder. 3-M makes a "Paint and Rust" remover. It's
a coarse plastic wheel (looks like a black, hole filled sponge wheel)
that chucks into a drill for about $6 that works well but creates clouds
of nasty dust.. Or glue a cut open coarse grit sanding belt to a scrap
of 1/4" plywood. Once they are mostly gone, some epoxy with fairing
filler applied with a firm wide putty knife should finish hiding them.
>Well if I was prepping an area of cured epoxy in order to attach
>
> According to the West Systems guide, dried epoxy
> should be sanded to rough it up before application of
> a finishing coat of epoxy. I had *assumed* that was
> to ensure the new layer adhered well to the existing
> epoxy but what I am hearing you say is that is not
> necessary?
something to it using more epoxy then yes, I'd sand. However all you are
adding is epoxy and whatever paint you coat the epoxy with. I don't see
the need for the added assurance of a better mechanical bond that
sanding would give you. Epoxy stick really well to epoxy... The only
time I've seen epoxy peel off epoxy you could feel the amine blush that
had been left on between the layers...
Rick
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And, lo and behold, there is the answer. I should
have kept reading : )
Tim
--- Roger Derby <derbyrm@...> wrote:
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have kept reading : )
Tim
--- Roger Derby <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> I can't speak from my own trials, but the System__________________________________
> Three "Epoxy Book" suggests
> that sanding is required between coats to create a
> mechanical bond IF more
> than 72 hours has elapsed on the earlier coat. This
> would be knocking the
> gloss off with, perhaps, 100 grit stuff; not the
> smoothing or fairing that
> takes so much work.
>
> As you say, first rinse with water so that you're
> not grinding the amine
> blush into the old coat.
>
> Planers are good for knocking down the rough finish
> on used lumber (or new
> from the sawmill) so that you can see your pencil
> marks. Like you, I've
> been trying to figure out what I'd use a jointer
> for.
>
> Don't confuse a planer with an electric block plane.
> They're wonderful!
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sctree" <sctree@...>
> <snip>
> > I always argue against sanding.. Sanding is a bad
> thing, it takes off
> > some of that expensive epoxy, may expose dry cloth
> or even worse bare
> > wood, the dust is bad for you, and for most folks
> anyway, it's a real
> > chore... All for what? To get a smoother finish? I
> say get that finish
> > by building up the low spots up to a fair, smooth
> finish...
> >
> > First you should water rinse if there is any
> possibility of amine blush.
> > Sanding before the rinse will spread the amine
> around, causing trouble
> > with additional epoxy or paint curing. After
> rinsing, instead of sanding
> > everything in sight, grind down or coarse sand the
> worst of the high
> > spots, then squeegee on a layer of epoxy with
> fairing filler to bring up
> > the low spots.... repeat over the worst spots as
> necessary. Won't take
> > long to get a ready for primer finish...
>
>
>
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Rick,
Thanks for the detailed post! Great info and I like
the thoughts. I had not known about using fairing
filler so I will try that. I also like that idea
better than sanding. However, I have a few spots
where the epoxy ran/slid. Would it be a good idea to
knock those off with the grinder even if they are not
real big?
According to the West Systems guide, dried epoxy
should be sanded to rough it up before application of
a finishing coat of epoxy. I had *assumed* that was
to ensure the new layer adhered well to the existing
epoxy but what I am hearing you say is that is not
necessary?
Thanks,
Tim
--- sctree <sctree@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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Thanks for the detailed post! Great info and I like
the thoughts. I had not known about using fairing
filler so I will try that. I also like that idea
better than sanding. However, I have a few spots
where the epoxy ran/slid. Would it be a good idea to
knock those off with the grinder even if they are not
real big?
According to the West Systems guide, dried epoxy
should be sanded to rough it up before application of
a finishing coat of epoxy. I had *assumed* that was
to ensure the new layer adhered well to the existing
epoxy but what I am hearing you say is that is not
necessary?
Thanks,
Tim
--- sctree <sctree@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
>
> Tim Rohrer wrote:
>
> > I
> > have enough to finish putting the cloth on but I
> don't
> > think I have enough to put a third coat of epoxy
> over
> > the hull so I'll have to wait to do that step.
>
> You should be adding a fairing filler to the epoxy
> once you have the
> initial epoxy with glass cloth sheathing coat on.
> Which means you'll
> need much less epoxy than on the initial sheathing
> coat.
>
> > I know
> > I should sand it a bit before I put on the third
> coat.
>
> I always argue against sanding.. Sanding is a bad
> thing, it takes off
> some of that expensive epoxy, may expose dry cloth
> or even worse bare
> wood, the dust is bad for you, and for most folks
> anyway, it's a real
> chore... All for what? To get a smoother finish? I
> say get that finish
> by building up the low spots up to a fair, smooth
> finish...
>
> First you should water rinse if there is any
> possibility of amine blush.
> Sanding before the rinse will spread the amine
> around, causing trouble
> with additional epoxy or paint curing. After
> rinsing, instead of sanding
> everything in sight, grind down or coarse sand the
> worst of the high
> spots, then squeegee on a layer of epoxy with
> fairing filler to bring up
> the low spots.... repeat over the worst spots as
> necessary. Won't take
> long to get a ready for primer finish...
>
> >
> > I am seriously thinking about a planer/joiner but
> will
> > have to put it in the priority list with other
> stuff :
> > ) For those that use planer/joiners in boat
> building,
> > any difference in requirements found with cabinet
> > making/wood working?
>
> I've forgotten what boat you're building, but those
> that I've built have
> (by design) few straight edges, and even fewer 90
> degree cuts.... I do
> have a benchtop type planer to dress up pieces I rip
> on the table saw,
> but all the boats I've built have been designed to
> use standard
> dimension lumber.... I really don't need the planer
> and can't imaging a
> need for a jointer.... Now some of the tool happy
> guys could argue that
> you can't build a boat without either along with a
> truckload of other
> tools...
>
> Happy fairing,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
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I can't speak from my own trials, but the System Three "Epoxy Book" suggests
that sanding is required between coats to create a mechanical bond IF more
than 72 hours has elapsed on the earlier coat. This would be knocking the
gloss off with, perhaps, 100 grit stuff; not the smoothing or fairing that
takes so much work.
As you say, first rinse with water so that you're not grinding the amine
blush into the old coat.
Planers are good for knocking down the rough finish on used lumber (or new
from the sawmill) so that you can see your pencil marks. Like you, I've
been trying to figure out what I'd use a jointer for.
Don't confuse a planer with an electric block plane. They're wonderful!
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
that sanding is required between coats to create a mechanical bond IF more
than 72 hours has elapsed on the earlier coat. This would be knocking the
gloss off with, perhaps, 100 grit stuff; not the smoothing or fairing that
takes so much work.
As you say, first rinse with water so that you're not grinding the amine
blush into the old coat.
Planers are good for knocking down the rough finish on used lumber (or new
from the sawmill) so that you can see your pencil marks. Like you, I've
been trying to figure out what I'd use a jointer for.
Don't confuse a planer with an electric block plane. They're wonderful!
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "sctree" <sctree@...>
<snip>
> I always argue against sanding.. Sanding is a bad thing, it takes off
> some of that expensive epoxy, may expose dry cloth or even worse bare
> wood, the dust is bad for you, and for most folks anyway, it's a real
> chore... All for what? To get a smoother finish? I say get that finish
> by building up the low spots up to a fair, smooth finish...
>
> First you should water rinse if there is any possibility of amine blush.
> Sanding before the rinse will spread the amine around, causing trouble
> with additional epoxy or paint curing. After rinsing, instead of sanding
> everything in sight, grind down or coarse sand the worst of the high
> spots, then squeegee on a layer of epoxy with fairing filler to bring up
> the low spots.... repeat over the worst spots as necessary. Won't take
> long to get a ready for primer finish...
Tim Rohrer wrote:
initial epoxy with glass cloth sheathing coat on. Which means you'll
need much less epoxy than on the initial sheathing coat.
some of that expensive epoxy, may expose dry cloth or even worse bare
wood, the dust is bad for you, and for most folks anyway, it's a real
chore... All for what? To get a smoother finish? I say get that finish
by building up the low spots up to a fair, smooth finish...
First you should water rinse if there is any possibility of amine blush.
Sanding before the rinse will spread the amine around, causing trouble
with additional epoxy or paint curing. After rinsing, instead of sanding
everything in sight, grind down or coarse sand the worst of the high
spots, then squeegee on a layer of epoxy with fairing filler to bring up
the low spots.... repeat over the worst spots as necessary. Won't take
long to get a ready for primer finish...
(by design) few straight edges, and even fewer 90 degree cuts.... I do
have a benchtop type planer to dress up pieces I rip on the table saw,
but all the boats I've built have been designed to use standard
dimension lumber.... I really don't need the planer and can't imaging a
need for a jointer.... Now some of the tool happy guys could argue that
you can't build a boat without either along with a truckload of other
tools...
Happy fairing,
Rick
> IYou should be adding a fairing filler to the epoxy once you have the
> have enough to finish putting the cloth on but I don't
> think I have enough to put a third coat of epoxy over
> the hull so I'll have to wait to do that step.
initial epoxy with glass cloth sheathing coat on. Which means you'll
need much less epoxy than on the initial sheathing coat.
> I knowI always argue against sanding.. Sanding is a bad thing, it takes off
> I should sand it a bit before I put on the third coat.
some of that expensive epoxy, may expose dry cloth or even worse bare
wood, the dust is bad for you, and for most folks anyway, it's a real
chore... All for what? To get a smoother finish? I say get that finish
by building up the low spots up to a fair, smooth finish...
First you should water rinse if there is any possibility of amine blush.
Sanding before the rinse will spread the amine around, causing trouble
with additional epoxy or paint curing. After rinsing, instead of sanding
everything in sight, grind down or coarse sand the worst of the high
spots, then squeegee on a layer of epoxy with fairing filler to bring up
the low spots.... repeat over the worst spots as necessary. Won't take
long to get a ready for primer finish...
>I've forgotten what boat you're building, but those that I've built have
> I am seriously thinking about a planer/joiner but will
> have to put it in the priority list with other stuff :
> ) For those that use planer/joiners in boat building,
> any difference in requirements found with cabinet
> making/wood working?
(by design) few straight edges, and even fewer 90 degree cuts.... I do
have a benchtop type planer to dress up pieces I rip on the table saw,
but all the boats I've built have been designed to use standard
dimension lumber.... I really don't need the planer and can't imaging a
need for a jointer.... Now some of the tool happy guys could argue that
you can't build a boat without either along with a truckload of other
tools...
Happy fairing,
Rick
I was glad to see *someone* saw things my way : )
I proceeded and put most of the fiberglass sheath on
yesterday. I may finish that up today. I have been
surprised at how much epoxy I have gone through up to
this point. I am about 1/2 way through my third
gallon of resin so I had to place another order. I
have enough to finish putting the cloth on but I don't
think I have enough to put a third coat of epoxy over
the hull so I'll have to wait to do that step. I know
I should sand it a bit before I put on the third coat.
I am seriously thinking about a planer/joiner but will
have to put it in the priority list with other stuff :
) For those that use planer/joiners in boat building,
any difference in requirements found with cabinet
making/wood working?
Wr, Tim
tgrohrer@...
--- XROMAD <xromad@...> wrote:
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I proceeded and put most of the fiberglass sheath on
yesterday. I may finish that up today. I have been
surprised at how much epoxy I have gone through up to
this point. I am about 1/2 way through my third
gallon of resin so I had to place another order. I
have enough to finish putting the cloth on but I don't
think I have enough to put a third coat of epoxy over
the hull so I'll have to wait to do that step. I know
I should sand it a bit before I put on the third coat.
I am seriously thinking about a planer/joiner but will
have to put it in the priority list with other stuff :
) For those that use planer/joiners in boat building,
any difference in requirements found with cabinet
making/wood working?
Wr, Tim
tgrohrer@...
--- XROMAD <xromad@...> wrote:
> Tim, you waited until I was out of town before you__________________________________
> asked this very
> important question.
>
> OPTION B, OPTION B, OPTION B, but you will also need
> a few other tools
> to help...Welder, Air Compressor, Band Saw, Lathe...
>
> > > >a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole
> > > project
> > > >over.
> > > >b) Whine to my wife that we really should use
> the
> > > >Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
> > > >jointer.
> > > >c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the
> places
> > > >that came up and then proceed.
> > > >d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when
> I
> > > am
>
> If that doesn't work then fill them smooth with
> thickened epoxy and go
> sailing.
>
> ALWAYS REMEMBER:
>
> "Putty and paint makes the boatbuilder what he
> aint."
>
> Brent
>
>
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Tim, you waited until I was out of town before you asked this very
important question.
OPTION B, OPTION B, OPTION B, but you will also need a few other tools
to help...Welder, Air Compressor, Band Saw, Lathe...
sailing.
ALWAYS REMEMBER:
"Putty and paint makes the boatbuilder what he aint."
Brent
important question.
OPTION B, OPTION B, OPTION B, but you will also need a few other tools
to help...Welder, Air Compressor, Band Saw, Lathe...
> > >a) Light the hull on fire and start the wholeIf that doesn't work then fill them smooth with thickened epoxy and go
> > project
> > >over.
> > >b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
> > >Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
> > >jointer.
> > >c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
> > >that came up and then proceed.
> > >d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I
> > am
sailing.
ALWAYS REMEMBER:
"Putty and paint makes the boatbuilder what he aint."
Brent
Thank you all for your responses. As the boat I am
building is indeed a small hull (Gypsy), I will apply
some putty to the holes along the exterior seams and
look at cloth "tape" as a way to rework the stem. I
appreciate all the suggestions.
However, I must say I am a little surprised that no
one picked option b) : )
Wr, Tim
--- craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
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building is indeed a small hull (Gypsy), I will apply
some putty to the holes along the exterior seams and
look at cloth "tape" as a way to rework the stem. I
appreciate all the suggestions.
However, I must say I am a little surprised that no
one picked option b) : )
Wr, Tim
--- craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
>__________________________________
> >
> >a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole
> project
> >over.
> >b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
> >Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
> >jointer.
> >c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
> >that came up and then proceed.
> >d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I
> am
>
>
> Mix thickened epoxy til it's like peanut butter.
> Fill holes. I've had this
> problem many times.
>
> For curved areas you can cut "tape" by taking
> diagonal slices from wide
> cloth. Goes on much smoother.
> --
> Craig O'Donnell
> Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
>
> <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
> The Proa FAQ
> <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
> The Cheap Pages
> <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
> Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails,
> Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
> American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor
> Roll,
> Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
> _________________________________
>
> -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
> -- Macintosh kinda guy
> Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
> _________________________________
>
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>Mix thickened epoxy til it's like peanut butter. Fill holes. I've had this
>a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
>over.
>b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
>Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
>jointer.
>c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
>that came up and then proceed.
>d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
problem many times.
For curved areas you can cut "tape" by taking diagonal slices from wide
cloth. Goes on much smoother.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
Fill the holes with epoxy with filler. Cut up some scrap fiberglass tape
threads for a decent filler, or go buy some fairing filler. Grind the
high spots, fill the low spots then do your glass sheathing. A strip of
cloth cut diagonally will be much easier that cloth tape to stretch over
the stem then fair it into the hull with fairing filler...
Then as Dynamite Payson says, "Paint her the color of your choice and
have a lawn-chin paddie"
Rick
Tim Rohrer wrote:
threads for a decent filler, or go buy some fairing filler. Grind the
high spots, fill the low spots then do your glass sheathing. A strip of
cloth cut diagonally will be much easier that cloth tape to stretch over
the stem then fair it into the hull with fairing filler...
Then as Dynamite Payson says, "Paint her the color of your choice and
have a lawn-chin paddie"
Rick
Tim Rohrer wrote:
> Good Evening Folks,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I am very close to putting cloth down on the hull but
None of these. Unless there are an awful lot of holes, mix some epoxy
with something fine and powdery and fill the holes. Microballoons and a
bit of fumed silica are what I would use, but I've heard of all sorts of
improbable things, like wood flour, baking flour, and powdered
limestone. Then no one has to know.
with something fine and powdery and fill the holes. Microballoons and a
bit of fumed silica are what I would use, but I've heard of all sorts of
improbable things, like wood flour, baking flour, and powdered
limestone. Then no one has to know.
>Tim Rohrer wrote:
>Good Evening Folks,
>snip When I sanded those out, I
>was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
>is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
>big. snip should I:
>
>a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
>over.
>b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
>Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
>jointer.
>c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
>that came up and then proceed.
>d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
>done, I should consider this a success.
>
>TIA,
>
>Tim Rohrer
>
Epoxy and glass are very forgiving. The major purpose of the tape I
believe is to stop the seam 'working', then opening, and the odd hole
in a low-tech boat won't matter too much. Having said that, I would
probably slap a patch on, and plenty of resin, and grind it flat
again. Then a final coat of resin over those areas. Depends how fussy
you are.
DonB
micronavigator site
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
believe is to stop the seam 'working', then opening, and the odd hole
in a low-tech boat won't matter too much. Having said that, I would
probably slap a patch on, and plenty of resin, and grind it flat
again. Then a final coat of resin over those areas. Depends how fussy
you are.
DonB
micronavigator site
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Tim Rohrer <tgrohrer@y...> wrote:
> Good Evening Folks,
>
> I am very close to putting cloth down on the hull but
> have a concern about two parts that I wanted to bounce
> off the experts here. First, the tape I bought is a
> much tighter weave then I should have used and some
> bubbles were "inevitable". When I sanded those out, I
> was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
> is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
> big. I also am not particularly pleased with the tape
> along the stem (it was hard to get it to lay down
> around the curve and) and when I ground it, a fair
> amount came up. So, my question is, should I:
>
> a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
> over.
> b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
> Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
> jointer.
> c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
> that came up and then proceed.
> d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
> done, I should consider this a success.
>
> TIA,
>
> Tim Rohrer
> tgrohrer@y...
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
>http://mail.yahoo.com
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
David
> None of these. Unless there are an awful lot of holes, mix someepoxy
> with something fine and powdery and fill the holes. Microballoonsand a
> bit of fumed silica are what I would use, but I've heard of allsorts of
> improbable things, like wood flour, baking flour, and powderedForgot babypowder, cheap,and easy to get almost anywhere!!
> limestone. Then no one has to know.
David
>
> >Tim Rohrer wrote:
> >Good Evening Folks,
> >snip When I sanded those out, I
> >was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
> >is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
> >big. snip should I:
--- Tim Rohrer
us what type of boat
it is?
I believe that row boats
and small sail boats don't
experience the stresses that
larger sailboats and power
boat must endure.
> on the hullDid I miss you telling
us what type of boat
it is?
I believe that row boats
and small sail boats don't
experience the stresses that
larger sailboats and power
boat must endure.
Or you can just stuff the crater with a mix of epoxy and milled glass
fibers, then grind the whole thing smooth later. It's theoretically a weak
spot, but probably not significant if it's only an inch or so. This is best
done within 72 hours of the original glassing so the epoxy coats can bond
chemically.
For the stem, it might be worth grinding down to the wood and starting over
with ordinary glass rather than "tape." (Pluck a strand to create a "run"
which your scissors can follow to make a straight cut.) You won't have a
selved edge, so to prevent the edge-fraying from driving you crazy with
epoxy spider webs, outline the area with 2" masking tape, glass onto it,
then (when green; i.e., soft-solid but tacky) slice along the tape's edge.
If the glass lifts, push it back down.
As for the multi-part question, only a) is wrong. The only burning allowed
in these parts is that associated with "clearing a hedge-row" and few boats
are found in hedges.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
fibers, then grind the whole thing smooth later. It's theoretically a weak
spot, but probably not significant if it's only an inch or so. This is best
done within 72 hours of the original glassing so the epoxy coats can bond
chemically.
For the stem, it might be worth grinding down to the wood and starting over
with ordinary glass rather than "tape." (Pluck a strand to create a "run"
which your scissors can follow to make a straight cut.) You won't have a
selved edge, so to prevent the edge-fraying from driving you crazy with
epoxy spider webs, outline the area with 2" masking tape, glass onto it,
then (when green; i.e., soft-solid but tacky) slice along the tape's edge.
If the glass lifts, push it back down.
As for the multi-part question, only a) is wrong. The only burning allowed
in these parts is that associated with "clearing a hedge-row" and few boats
are found in hedges.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Heins" <eheins@...>
> Tim,
> The great thing about building your own boat is that there is little you
can screw up that can't be fixed.. Most of us have had some cloth go wrong
at one time or another. If it's not totally bad, I'd sand or grind it back
to where you have good tape then put new tape down again. Chances are it
will even look like it was intended to be that way.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Rohrer
> I am very close to putting cloth down on the hull but
> have a concern about two parts that I wanted to bounce
> off the experts here. First, the tape I bought is a
> much tighter weave then I should have used and some
> bubbles were "inevitable". When I sanded those out, I
> was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
> is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
> big.
>
> I also am not particularly pleased with the tape
> along the stem (it was hard to get it to lay down
> around the curve and) and when I ground it, a fair
> amount came up. So, my question is, should I:
>
> a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
> over.
> b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
> Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
> jointer.
> c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
> that came up and then proceed.
> d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
> done, I should consider this a success.
Tim Rohrer wrote:
on the inside, and a taped radius on the outside? I am
going to assume that only your outside tapes have holes
and go with d). I don't think a few holes in the taping
will be a problem. Make sure you seal the wood with
epoxy though.
I would probably be tempted to go with c) for the stem
though - try using normal glass cloth cut on the bias,
rather than tape. It will follow the curves better.
Of course, it depends on the boat. The above comments
apply to a small dinghy or tender. For a large boat or a
go-fast-speed-demon all bets are off.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole projectIs this stitch-and-glue style, with taped epoxy fillets
> over.
> b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
> Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
> jointer.
> c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
> that came up and then proceed.
> d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
> done, I should consider this a success.
on the inside, and a taped radius on the outside? I am
going to assume that only your outside tapes have holes
and go with d). I don't think a few holes in the taping
will be a problem. Make sure you seal the wood with
epoxy though.
I would probably be tempted to go with c) for the stem
though - try using normal glass cloth cut on the bias,
rather than tape. It will follow the curves better.
Of course, it depends on the boat. The above comments
apply to a small dinghy or tender. For a large boat or a
go-fast-speed-demon all bets are off.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
Tim,
The great thing about building your own boat is that there is little you can screw up that can't be fixed.. Most of us have had some cloth go wrong at one time or another. If it's not totally bad, I'd sand or grind it back to where you have good tape then put new tape down again. Chances are it will even look like it was intended to be that way.
The great thing about building your own boat is that there is little you can screw up that can't be fixed.. Most of us have had some cloth go wrong at one time or another. If it's not totally bad, I'd sand or grind it back to where you have good tape then put new tape down again. Chances are it will even look like it was intended to be that way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Rohrer
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:49 PM
Subject: [bolger] Taped Seams Concern/Boat Status
Good Evening Folks,
I am very close to putting cloth down on the hull but
have a concern about two parts that I wanted to bounce
off the experts here. First, the tape I bought is a
much tighter weave then I should have used and some
bubbles were "inevitable". When I sanded those out, I
was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
big. I also am not particularly pleased with the tape
along the stem (it was hard to get it to lay down
around the curve and) and when I ground it, a fair
amount came up. So, my question is, should I:
a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
over.
b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
jointer.
c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
that came up and then proceed.
d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
done, I should consider this a success.
TIA,
Tim Rohrer
tgrohrer@...
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good Evening Folks,
I am very close to putting cloth down on the hull but
have a concern about two parts that I wanted to bounce
off the experts here. First, the tape I bought is a
much tighter weave then I should have used and some
bubbles were "inevitable". When I sanded those out, I
was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
big. I also am not particularly pleased with the tape
along the stem (it was hard to get it to lay down
around the curve and) and when I ground it, a fair
amount came up. So, my question is, should I:
a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
over.
b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
jointer.
c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
that came up and then proceed.
d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
done, I should consider this a success.
TIA,
Tim Rohrer
tgrohrer@...
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com
I am very close to putting cloth down on the hull but
have a concern about two parts that I wanted to bounce
off the experts here. First, the tape I bought is a
much tighter weave then I should have used and some
bubbles were "inevitable". When I sanded those out, I
was left with some "holes" in the tape and now plywood
is visible. None of the "holes" are much over an inch
big. I also am not particularly pleased with the tape
along the stem (it was hard to get it to lay down
around the curve and) and when I ground it, a fair
amount came up. So, my question is, should I:
a) Light the hull on fire and start the whole project
over.
b) Whine to my wife that we really should use the
Federal tax return money to buy a planer and a
jointer.
c) Put a couple more strips of tape over the places
that came up and then proceed.
d) Not sweat any of it; if the boat floats when I am
done, I should consider this a success.
TIA,
Tim Rohrer
tgrohrer@...
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com