Re: New Folding Schooner in the works, the Origami!
Go there and download the mast.zip file. It's located right
underneath the Shareware for boat design section.
http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware
It uses the same formula I believe as the article mentioned in
woodenboat magazine from a few years ago. We actually used the
formula from the printed article to base our calculations and double
checked with the software.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oceanplodder2003" <dana-
tenacity@u...> wrote:
underneath the Shareware for boat design section.
http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware
It uses the same formula I believe as the article mentioned in
woodenboat magazine from a few years ago. We actually used the
formula from the printed article to base our calculations and double
checked with the software.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oceanplodder2003" <dana-
tenacity@u...> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm new so maybe this is old stiff, but I like the staved mast.
>
> Is there a calculation for stave width vs mast diam. What about
> shaving the flat edge for a tapered spar.
>
> I've finally arrived back in Kiwiland from the US and am still
> fantasizing about the LS.
>
> David
There is a Shields that races at the local Yacht Club. That's a 26
or 28 footer... open boat no accomodations what so ever. That boat
is PHRF rated. Perhaps it has a fixed keel..? I don't know.
Would that make a difference though?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@n...>
wrote:
or 28 footer... open boat no accomodations what so ever. That boat
is PHRF rated. Perhaps it has a fixed keel..? I don't know.
Would that make a difference though?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Meddock" <jmeddock@n...>
wrote:
>rating -
> > As far as the choice between a FS or LS, I picked the FS only
> > because I wanted a 30'+ boat. I'm gonna try to get a PHRF
> >rating,
>
> PHRF is intended to rate ballasted monohull boats with
> cooking/sleeping/potty accomodations.
> Lots of info at ussailing.org
> You may be able to get your local sailing club to issue you a
> even though the FS does not fit the basic profile of a PHRF boat.
> Don't count on it without checking first.
>
> Justin
Thank you Don for the praises! We appreciate that!
Different web hosting is in the works. I'll update it and will let
you know...
Different web hosting is in the works. I'll update it and will let
you know...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
> Most impressive spar Roger. For some extra work now, you will be
> reaping reward everytime you handle it, look at it, and also your
> boat will feel better for sailing with it too.
> Yes, I got the overloading message from Geocities. Really, those
huge
> adverts are a big turnoff. Especially when you can get a secure
site
> with none, for the princley rental of 50c a week.
> DonB
> >
> > I tell ya I can't wait to get this baby planning hard and fast
> > though the swells!!! :-) We all know how to swim, right!?! :-)
> >
> > Please feel free to go visit the site
> >http://geocities.com/schoonerorigami/and place your comments -
if
> > any! - on the message group for everyone to read.
> >
> > However, I have encountered a problem with the site: Geocities
> > (owned by Yahoo) tells me from time to time that too much data
> > transfer has occurred and the site goes down for awhile...
Should
> > this happen when you look at it, be patient and go back a little
> > later. I guess the site is too busy for their liking... A .com
> > website might be in the works shortly...
> >
> > I welcome any comments, ideas or suggestions, good or bad (!),
and
> > look forward to a great season sailing and racing!
> >
> > Again, thank you to all of you.
> > Sorry about such a long post.
> >
> > Roger
> > Captain Capsize
> > Schooner Origami
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "schoonerorigami"
<schoonerorigami@y...> wrote:
Having built 9 sails now from poly tarp( only the first was no good)
I would not hesitate to make my own out of Dacron using the same
technique. Dont bother with the tape, contact cement is fine.
I presently have a large headsail ,400ft2, that i got for free that
i will start to cut up for schooner sails to replace the polytarp
ones.
why dont you go to a yacht club and put up a notice asking for any
old sails? No hesitation there...!
same volume ow woodas the 3" solid one that I pick up in one hand.
add the bottom plug that you will need , it will probably be
heavier , but I reckon the feeliing when you unclampedit must have
been excellent
it is a lot more work than just slapping 2 2x4's together
it took longer to slap em together than youd think as theyhad to be
untwisted first then the rapid glueing and the 51 clamps. no slapping
on that job.
fancier and more expensivethe varnish the worse it got. Ive gone
back to an oilbase varnish diluted with linseed and no epoxy
saturation on the Bright bits
marina they wouldnt even let me unfold in the carpark before moving
to the ramp, so i did it on the rampand blocked it all off - we'll
also add extra
whole point of theFS is the roominess under sail . you recline at
yuor ease on the floorboards
out
"Oh boy! I can hear it already..! Cap'ain! She's gonna
cheers Paul AUS 3 "Waltzing Matilda"
<schoonerorigami@y...> wrote:
> I decided to go with tarp sails to start: I can getreal
> the entire tarp sail plan here
>http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/products.htmfor $150 when
> Dacron sails from Sailrite would be $650..Thats a lot!!.
Having built 9 sails now from poly tarp( only the first was no good)
I would not hesitate to make my own out of Dacron using the same
technique. Dont bother with the tape, contact cement is fine.
I presently have a large headsail ,400ft2, that i got for free that
i will start to cut up for schooner sails to replace the polytarp
ones.
why dont you go to a yacht club and put up a notice asking for any
old sails? No hesitation there...!
> We figured that the tarp sails will be almost as good, at first,such
> than real sails and will require a little less work to put together
> (Inexpensive and no sowing). It'll get us that much quicker in the
> water since the budget shrunk dramatically over the past couple of
> months...
>
> Also, we decided to go with the Bird's Mouth method of building
> spars only because of the lightness, flexibility and durability
> a construction allows. Some people who have viewed the site haveA quick calculation by me would sugest that you would have about the
> asked me why I built such a massive mast. It is only 4"1/4 in
> diameter which is barely more than what the plan calls for... It
> just looks big! :-)
same volume ow woodas the 3" solid one that I pick up in one hand.
add the bottom plug that you will need , it will probably be
heavier , but I reckon the feeliing when you unclampedit must have
been excellent
it is a lot more work than just slapping 2 2x4's together
it took longer to slap em together than youd think as theyhad to be
untwisted first then the rapid glueing and the 51 clamps. no slapping
on that job.
> then plane,One of the things Ive had no luck with is varnish over epoxy. the
> sand, coat with epoxy then varnish every piece! PPPFFFffff...!!!
> I sure hope they'll look good and work great and can't wait to
> see
> the final result!
fancier and more expensivethe varnish the worse it got. Ive gone
back to an oilbase varnish diluted with linseed and no epoxy
saturation on the Bright bits
>They wont even think you are a boat, let alone a yacht . In one
> As far as the choice between a FS or LS, I picked the FS only
> because I wanted a 30'+ boat. I'm gonna try to get a PHRF rating -
> If they let me!
marina they wouldnt even let me unfold in the carpark before moving
to the ramp, so i did it on the rampand blocked it all off - we'll
also add extra
> small frames in the aft hull (as suggested by one FS builder).I only added an internal gunwale of 1 1/2 " to stiffen things. the
> Hopefully, that will allow for a drier boat and perhaps remove some
> of the "hull twisting" I've been reading about here...
whole point of theFS is the roominess under sail . you recline at
yuor ease on the floorboards
>Mind you we had no masts upand I was the only one who wanted to go
> A lot of people claim that either the LS or FS are not really
> seaworthy boats as far as sailing in strong winds and swells...
> Well.., the Australian folks who built a FS and a LS sure seemed to
> have a lot of fun in 25+ knots!!!
out
"Oh boy! I can hear it already..! Cap'ain! She's gonna
> broach!!!".you wont that much talking time matey
cheers Paul AUS 3 "Waltzing Matilda"
>
>
The July/August 1999 issue of Wooden Boat had an article on how Mountain
Marine builds "bird's mouth" spars, aka the Noble System. In it they
suggested the thickness was between 0.1 and 0.2 times the diameter; thicker
for bigger boats and softer lumber. For spruce, use 0.2x. For Douglas Fir,
use 0.15x.
The width is 0.4 times the diameter, and yes, the flat side is tapered to
provide the spar's taper.
Build up a short section to get familiar with the process (my test piece is
about 9"). Get lots of hose clamps and use very slow setting epoxy. Have a
rack to support the spar while the epoxy is setting and pound it straight
before the final tightening of the clamps.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
Marine builds "bird's mouth" spars, aka the Noble System. In it they
suggested the thickness was between 0.1 and 0.2 times the diameter; thicker
for bigger boats and softer lumber. For spruce, use 0.2x. For Douglas Fir,
use 0.15x.
The width is 0.4 times the diameter, and yes, the flat side is tapered to
provide the spar's taper.
Build up a short section to get familiar with the process (my test piece is
about 9"). Get lots of hose clamps and use very slow setting epoxy. Have a
rack to support the spar while the epoxy is setting and pound it straight
before the final tightening of the clamps.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "oceanplodder2003" <dana-tenacity@...>
> I'm new so maybe this is old stiff, but I like the staved mast.
>
> Is there a calculation for stave width vs mast diam. What about
> shaving the flat edge for a tapered spar.
Hi
I'm new so maybe this is old stiff, but I like the staved mast.
Is there a calculation for stave width vs mast diam. What about
shaving the flat edge for a tapered spar.
I've finally arrived back in Kiwiland from the US and am still
fantasizing about the LS.
David
I'm new so maybe this is old stiff, but I like the staved mast.
Is there a calculation for stave width vs mast diam. What about
shaving the flat edge for a tapered spar.
I've finally arrived back in Kiwiland from the US and am still
fantasizing about the LS.
David
> As far as the choice between a FS or LS, I picked the FS onlyPHRF is intended to rate ballasted monohull boats with
> because I wanted a 30'+ boat. I'm gonna try to get a PHRF rating -
>
cooking/sleeping/potty accomodations.
Lots of info at ussailing.org
You may be able to get your local sailing club to issue you a rating,
even though the FS does not fit the basic profile of a PHRF boat.
Don't count on it without checking first.
Justin
Most impressive spar Roger. For some extra work now, you will be
reaping reward everytime you handle it, look at it, and also your
boat will feel better for sailing with it too.
Yes, I got the overloading message from Geocities. Really, those huge
adverts are a big turnoff. Especially when you can get a secure site
with none, for the princley rental of 50c a week.
DonB
reaping reward everytime you handle it, look at it, and also your
boat will feel better for sailing with it too.
Yes, I got the overloading message from Geocities. Really, those huge
adverts are a big turnoff. Especially when you can get a secure site
with none, for the princley rental of 50c a week.
DonB
>
> I tell ya I can't wait to get this baby planning hard and fast
> though the swells!!! :-) We all know how to swim, right!?! :-)
>
> Please feel free to go visit the site
>http://geocities.com/schoonerorigami/and place your comments - if
> any! - on the message group for everyone to read.
>
> However, I have encountered a problem with the site: Geocities
> (owned by Yahoo) tells me from time to time that too much data
> transfer has occurred and the site goes down for awhile... Should
> this happen when you look at it, be patient and go back a little
> later. I guess the site is too busy for their liking... A .com
> website might be in the works shortly...
>
> I welcome any comments, ideas or suggestions, good or bad (!), and
> look forward to a great season sailing and racing!
>
> Again, thank you to all of you.
> Sorry about such a long post.
>
> Roger
> Captain Capsize
> Schooner Origami
Hello all!
Thank you to all of you for posting your ideas and remarks in this
group! This has been a great inspiration with a lot of topics! I
finally got a new schooner email (!), signed up recently with the
group and wanted to share with all of you the work that has been
done so far on my future Folding Schooner, the Origami!
To get back to a few topics talked about lately in the group (sail
cloth and spars) I decided to go with tarp sails to start: I can get
the entire tarp sail plan here
http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/products.htmfor $150 when real
Dacron sails from Sailrite would be $650... No hesitation there...!
We figured that the tarp sails will be almost as good, at first,
than real sails and will require a little less work to put together
(Inexpensive and no sowing). It'll get us that much quicker in the
water since the budget shrunk dramatically over the past couple of
months...
Also, we decided to go with the Bird's Mouth method of building
spars only because of the lightness, flexibility and durability such
a construction allows. Some people who have viewed the site have
asked me why I built such a massive mast. It is only 4"1/4 in
diameter which is barely more than what the plan calls for... It
just looks big! :-) We're actually very proud of it (I had never
built such a "thing" before! It's been actually a lot of
fun and we kept the beer flowing! That was the best help!!!) and
yes, it is a lot more work than just slapping 2 2x4's together but
the result is definitely more impressive! It felt real good to
actually build the spars that way... It's a process all right!
And I still need to build the 2nd mast and the 2 gaffs then plane,
sand, coat with epoxy then varnish every piece! PPPFFFffff...!!!
I sure hope they'll look good and work great and can't wait to
see
the final result!
As far as the choice between a FS or LS, I picked the FS only
because I wanted a 30'+ boat. I'm gonna try to get a PHRF rating -
If they let me! - to be able to enter small regattas around here and
most boats I would like to compete against are in the 27' to 35'
class... If any of you have tried to get a PHRF rating with any of
Bolger's designs, please let me know. Being a fairly green sailor, I
am very interested in hearing your comments regarding this matter...
In the event that I would not be able to secure a PHRF rating, plan
B is to go, for example, to the Gloucester Schooner Festival in
Gloucester, MA at the end of July and hopefully make it next year to
the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival in Nova Scotia where it would be
a lot of fun to race against Folding and Light Schooners there...!
The only design change to the Origami is the addition of decking all
around just like on the LS and most likely we'll also add extra
small frames in the aft hull (as suggested by one FS builder).
Hopefully, that will allow for a drier boat and perhaps remove some
of the "hull twisting" I've been reading about here...
A lot of people claim that either the LS or FS are not really
seaworthy boats as far as sailing in strong winds and swells...
Well.., the Australian folks who built a FS and a LS sure seemed to
have a lot of fun in 25+ knots!!! My buddies and I are looking
forward to find that out ourselves and if the Nantucket Sound will
be the best place to prove that idea wrong!
"Oh boy! I can hear it already..! Cap'ain! She's gonna
broach!!!"
I tell ya I can't wait to get this baby planning hard and fast
though the swells!!! :-) We all know how to swim, right!?! :-)
Please feel free to go visit the site
http://geocities.com/schoonerorigami/and place your comments - if
any! - on the message group for everyone to read.
However, I have encountered a problem with the site: Geocities
(owned by Yahoo) tells me from time to time that too much data
transfer has occurred and the site goes down for awhile... Should
this happen when you look at it, be patient and go back a little
later. I guess the site is too busy for their liking... A .com
website might be in the works shortly...
I welcome any comments, ideas or suggestions, good or bad (!), and
look forward to a great season sailing and racing!
Again, thank you to all of you.
Sorry about such a long post.
Roger
Captain Capsize
Schooner Origami
Thank you to all of you for posting your ideas and remarks in this
group! This has been a great inspiration with a lot of topics! I
finally got a new schooner email (!), signed up recently with the
group and wanted to share with all of you the work that has been
done so far on my future Folding Schooner, the Origami!
To get back to a few topics talked about lately in the group (sail
cloth and spars) I decided to go with tarp sails to start: I can get
the entire tarp sail plan here
http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/products.htmfor $150 when real
Dacron sails from Sailrite would be $650... No hesitation there...!
We figured that the tarp sails will be almost as good, at first,
than real sails and will require a little less work to put together
(Inexpensive and no sowing). It'll get us that much quicker in the
water since the budget shrunk dramatically over the past couple of
months...
Also, we decided to go with the Bird's Mouth method of building
spars only because of the lightness, flexibility and durability such
a construction allows. Some people who have viewed the site have
asked me why I built such a massive mast. It is only 4"1/4 in
diameter which is barely more than what the plan calls for... It
just looks big! :-) We're actually very proud of it (I had never
built such a "thing" before! It's been actually a lot of
fun and we kept the beer flowing! That was the best help!!!) and
yes, it is a lot more work than just slapping 2 2x4's together but
the result is definitely more impressive! It felt real good to
actually build the spars that way... It's a process all right!
And I still need to build the 2nd mast and the 2 gaffs then plane,
sand, coat with epoxy then varnish every piece! PPPFFFffff...!!!
I sure hope they'll look good and work great and can't wait to
see
the final result!
As far as the choice between a FS or LS, I picked the FS only
because I wanted a 30'+ boat. I'm gonna try to get a PHRF rating -
If they let me! - to be able to enter small regattas around here and
most boats I would like to compete against are in the 27' to 35'
class... If any of you have tried to get a PHRF rating with any of
Bolger's designs, please let me know. Being a fairly green sailor, I
am very interested in hearing your comments regarding this matter...
In the event that I would not be able to secure a PHRF rating, plan
B is to go, for example, to the Gloucester Schooner Festival in
Gloucester, MA at the end of July and hopefully make it next year to
the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival in Nova Scotia where it would be
a lot of fun to race against Folding and Light Schooners there...!
The only design change to the Origami is the addition of decking all
around just like on the LS and most likely we'll also add extra
small frames in the aft hull (as suggested by one FS builder).
Hopefully, that will allow for a drier boat and perhaps remove some
of the "hull twisting" I've been reading about here...
A lot of people claim that either the LS or FS are not really
seaworthy boats as far as sailing in strong winds and swells...
Well.., the Australian folks who built a FS and a LS sure seemed to
have a lot of fun in 25+ knots!!! My buddies and I are looking
forward to find that out ourselves and if the Nantucket Sound will
be the best place to prove that idea wrong!
"Oh boy! I can hear it already..! Cap'ain! She's gonna
broach!!!"
I tell ya I can't wait to get this baby planning hard and fast
though the swells!!! :-) We all know how to swim, right!?! :-)
Please feel free to go visit the site
http://geocities.com/schoonerorigami/and place your comments - if
any! - on the message group for everyone to read.
However, I have encountered a problem with the site: Geocities
(owned by Yahoo) tells me from time to time that too much data
transfer has occurred and the site goes down for awhile... Should
this happen when you look at it, be patient and go back a little
later. I guess the site is too busy for their liking... A .com
website might be in the works shortly...
I welcome any comments, ideas or suggestions, good or bad (!), and
look forward to a great season sailing and racing!
Again, thank you to all of you.
Sorry about such a long post.
Roger
Captain Capsize
Schooner Origami