Re: Re: inboard engine
Sorry, but there seem to be lots and lots of designs masquerading as
"Seabright Skiffs". The one shown in Chappelle's book, if converted to
inboard instead of rowing and sailing, ought to go on 5hp (or less if
low rpm and high torque, I'd guess), but on the web I see designs
alleged to be "Seabright Skiffs" that are planing hulls that could
probably use 10 or more times the horsepower. BTW, Bolger mentions these
(I think he means the version in Chappelle or something similar) in an
essay in which he shows a design for a many-sailed boat for something
like a summer camp or Outward Bound type program. Anyway, the essay
implies that the Seabright Skiff is hard to build.
"Seabright Skiffs". The one shown in Chappelle's book, if converted to
inboard instead of rowing and sailing, ought to go on 5hp (or less if
low rpm and high torque, I'd guess), but on the web I see designs
alleged to be "Seabright Skiffs" that are planing hulls that could
probably use 10 or more times the horsepower. BTW, Bolger mentions these
(I think he means the version in Chappelle or something similar) in an
essay in which he shows a design for a many-sailed boat for something
like a summer camp or Outward Bound type program. Anyway, the essay
implies that the Seabright Skiff is hard to build.
>lon wells wrote:
>
>It would be for a Seabright Skiff I am thinking about
>building.
> Lon
>
Has anyone built/seen the Bolger power (wide stern)
canoe from Boats with an Open Mind? Pretty little
boat, to my eye. Sam
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canoe from Boats with an Open Mind? Pretty little
boat, to my eye. Sam
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
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I seem to remember an essay by the great man including a section on
people buying diesels for their boats and then, the next season,
building flying bridges to get away from the noise. Or it might have
been in an essay by Thomas Firth Jones. I have a mind like a steel sieve....
Seems to me there must be a lot of dying sailboats with small inboard
installations. Not sure what rebuilds cost. Gasoline motor should be
cheaper and quieter if you can deal with it.
What sort of boat is this for?
Lincoln Ross
about as far from an expert on this as you can get
people buying diesels for their boats and then, the next season,
building flying bridges to get away from the noise. Or it might have
been in an essay by Thomas Firth Jones. I have a mind like a steel sieve....
Seems to me there must be a lot of dying sailboats with small inboard
installations. Not sure what rebuilds cost. Gasoline motor should be
cheaper and quieter if you can deal with it.
What sort of boat is this for?
Lincoln Ross
about as far from an expert on this as you can get
I think the Geo motor might make good power for a light speedboat, but would
be excessively buzzy for the moderate speed boats you've been discussing
over on the Atkin group. And marinizing one would be a hassle.
It's too bad there aren't any real marine gas engines made in the moderate
power range any more. <sigh> The picture isn't completely bleak though.
There are lots of Universal Atomic Fours out there. Every day someone is
pulling one out of a sailboat to replace it with a noisy, smelly (but more
fuel efficient) diesel. Parts are readily available, and you can even buy
rebuilt engines ready to drop right in. I believe the usual power rating (it
varied over the years) is 25 hp.
For a bit more push, I've thought about getting one of those GM four-
cylinder engines that they used to put in a lot of I/O boats. They're
readily available used, already marinized, and parts are easy to find. I
don't know what they're rated at. I think they're a 140 cu. in. Chevy engine
that was rated at 78-87 hp. at around 4,400 rpm. in an automobile. But I'd
plan on running it slower, maybe in the 3,000 range max, and getting a much
lower output, but quieter running. Ideally, one would rebuild the engine
with a cam profile optimized for that engine speed, lower compression and a
smaller carburettor, but the quick and dirty method might be to just put a
big enough prop, with enough pitch, so the engine can't rev any faster than
3,000. Another ploy would be to prop the boat so the boat goes at the speed
you want with the engine running at part throttle. In a boat designed for
35-40 hp., opening up the throttle more would probably either dig a hole in
the water, or create excessive excitement (not healthy for a man your age,
Lon <g>) with little benefit.
be excessively buzzy for the moderate speed boats you've been discussing
over on the Atkin group. And marinizing one would be a hassle.
It's too bad there aren't any real marine gas engines made in the moderate
power range any more. <sigh> The picture isn't completely bleak though.
There are lots of Universal Atomic Fours out there. Every day someone is
pulling one out of a sailboat to replace it with a noisy, smelly (but more
fuel efficient) diesel. Parts are readily available, and you can even buy
rebuilt engines ready to drop right in. I believe the usual power rating (it
varied over the years) is 25 hp.
For a bit more push, I've thought about getting one of those GM four-
cylinder engines that they used to put in a lot of I/O boats. They're
readily available used, already marinized, and parts are easy to find. I
don't know what they're rated at. I think they're a 140 cu. in. Chevy engine
that was rated at 78-87 hp. at around 4,400 rpm. in an automobile. But I'd
plan on running it slower, maybe in the 3,000 range max, and getting a much
lower output, but quieter running. Ideally, one would rebuild the engine
with a cam profile optimized for that engine speed, lower compression and a
smaller carburettor, but the quick and dirty method might be to just put a
big enough prop, with enough pitch, so the engine can't rev any faster than
3,000. Another ploy would be to prop the boat so the boat goes at the speed
you want with the engine running at part throttle. In a boat designed for
35-40 hp., opening up the throttle more would probably either dig a hole in
the water, or create excessive excitement (not healthy for a man your age,
Lon <g>) with little benefit.
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:16:45 -0800 (PST), Lon wrote:
> I do mean small inboard gasoline engines. My wife
> hates the noise and smell of diesels, and for me
> boating and the water is a family thing.
> ...
> The Suzuki (Chevrolet Geo)
> 1. Light weight 135#
> 2. Parts are easy to find
> 3, Used engines are plentiful and less than $400.00.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
When I think of the number of disagreeable people that I know have gone
to a better world, I am sure hell won't be so bad at all. <Mark Twain>
It would be for a Seabright Skiff I am thinking about
building.
Lon
--- Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...> wrote:
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building.
Lon
--- Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...> wrote:
> I seem to remember an essay by the great man__________________________________
> including a section on
> people buying diesels for their boats and then, the
> next season,
> building flying bridges to get away from the noise.
> Or it might have
> been in an essay by Thomas Firth Jones. I have a
> mind like a steel sieve....
>
> Seems to me there must be a lot of dying sailboats
> with small inboard
> installations. Not sure what rebuilds cost. Gasoline
> motor should be
> cheaper and quieter if you can deal with it.
>
> What sort of boat is this for?
>
> Lincoln Ross
> about as far from an expert on this as you can get
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
I do mean small inboard gasoline engines. My wife
hates the noise and smell of diesels, and for me
boating and the water is a family thing. I have had
several diesels, Gardener, Perkins, Detroit and
Kubota.
I asked by friend Dennis the old diesel mechanic how
to quite down the Detroit Diesel in my tugboat he
said, "Turn it off"! :)
A diesel is the only way to go on a large boat where
there is a engine room and you can have distance from
the motor. But in a small open boat it is hard to
escape the smell and noise. Many of the small diesels
are two cycle and there is that cloud of smoke.
The Suzuki (Chevrolet Geo)
1. Light weight 135#
2. Parts are easy to find
3, Used engines are plentiful and less than $400.00.
4 Suzuki did use this motor in their 3 cylinder
outboard with freshwater cooling (they turned it up on
end and had a closed oil system).
5 Cooling, Since the cost of a replacement motor
would be less than a heat exchanger and it has a
proven record as a freshwater cooled motor, fresh
water cooling might be the way to go. The boat would
not be used in salt water.
6 Marine exhaust would be required. I could build a
set or I have also heard of wrapping the exhaust with
copper tubing and running water through the tubing.
7 Reduction gear would be by a centrifugal clutch to
the Suzuki and use belts or chain pulley size as
reduction gear.
8. The starter and alternator would be converted to
marine use by the local auto electric shop the
9. The Japanese version has carburetors and I would
install flame arrestors on the carburetors.
10 A kitchen rudder (they were used by the British
Navy for over 70 years)
http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/SLAkitchen.gif
would supply forward, neutral and reverse.
11. Spark proof blowers and ventilation would need to
be installed.
12.This motor is successfully used by the experimental
aircraft and hovercraft people.
I was hunting for some thoughts on this conversion
Lon
__________________________________
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hates the noise and smell of diesels, and for me
boating and the water is a family thing. I have had
several diesels, Gardener, Perkins, Detroit and
Kubota.
I asked by friend Dennis the old diesel mechanic how
to quite down the Detroit Diesel in my tugboat he
said, "Turn it off"! :)
A diesel is the only way to go on a large boat where
there is a engine room and you can have distance from
the motor. But in a small open boat it is hard to
escape the smell and noise. Many of the small diesels
are two cycle and there is that cloud of smoke.
The Suzuki (Chevrolet Geo)
1. Light weight 135#
2. Parts are easy to find
3, Used engines are plentiful and less than $400.00.
4 Suzuki did use this motor in their 3 cylinder
outboard with freshwater cooling (they turned it up on
end and had a closed oil system).
5 Cooling, Since the cost of a replacement motor
would be less than a heat exchanger and it has a
proven record as a freshwater cooled motor, fresh
water cooling might be the way to go. The boat would
not be used in salt water.
6 Marine exhaust would be required. I could build a
set or I have also heard of wrapping the exhaust with
copper tubing and running water through the tubing.
7 Reduction gear would be by a centrifugal clutch to
the Suzuki and use belts or chain pulley size as
reduction gear.
8. The starter and alternator would be converted to
marine use by the local auto electric shop the
9. The Japanese version has carburetors and I would
install flame arrestors on the carburetors.
10 A kitchen rudder (they were used by the British
Navy for over 70 years)
http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/SLAkitchen.gif
would supply forward, neutral and reverse.
11. Spark proof blowers and ventilation would need to
be installed.
12.This motor is successfully used by the experimental
aircraft and hovercraft people.
I was hunting for some thoughts on this conversion
Lon
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
There are a few excellent marine engines that will meet your specifications.
One of the best, but no longer available would be the Sabb 30HP (on the
used market). Nowadays, marine die hards recommend Bukh - which is one of
the only true marine engines (not a tractor conversion). Isuzu has a few
excellent options as does Phasor (based off Kubota) and Beta Marine (also
based off Kubota) -- these are easy to service engines. Many choose
Westerbeke as an auxiliary option as well. Volvo has quite a few options
out there and a significant used market -- beware of part costs though. The
main question is the demand for continious usage; if the requirements are
high, I would go with Bukh which is used on virtually every lifeboat. For a
real workhorse the Detroit Diesel 2-71 is rated at 62+/- HP. All of these
engines and dealers are well represented on the Internet.
The options are plentiful.
Having done significant research on the subject, I would strongly discourage
the marinization of an auto engine -- mostly for safety reasons and secondly
because there are no cost savings considering Coast Guard regulations and
gas economy. You might wish to refer to the subject on boatdesign.net which
has a thread on the subject. Considering that there are dozens of options
at affordable prices, whether ebay or dealer, I can't see the benefits for
an auto conversion. For real penny pinching, a Yanmar (diesel from tractor)
conversion or the like would be the better way to go.
JB
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
ESPN.http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
One of the best, but no longer available would be the Sabb 30HP (on the
used market). Nowadays, marine die hards recommend Bukh - which is one of
the only true marine engines (not a tractor conversion). Isuzu has a few
excellent options as does Phasor (based off Kubota) and Beta Marine (also
based off Kubota) -- these are easy to service engines. Many choose
Westerbeke as an auxiliary option as well. Volvo has quite a few options
out there and a significant used market -- beware of part costs though. The
main question is the demand for continious usage; if the requirements are
high, I would go with Bukh which is used on virtually every lifeboat. For a
real workhorse the Detroit Diesel 2-71 is rated at 62+/- HP. All of these
engines and dealers are well represented on the Internet.
The options are plentiful.
Having done significant research on the subject, I would strongly discourage
the marinization of an auto engine -- mostly for safety reasons and secondly
because there are no cost savings considering Coast Guard regulations and
gas economy. You might wish to refer to the subject on boatdesign.net which
has a thread on the subject. Considering that there are dozens of options
at affordable prices, whether ebay or dealer, I can't see the benefits for
an auto conversion. For real penny pinching, a Yanmar (diesel from tractor)
conversion or the like would be the better way to go.
JB
>From: grant corson <corson@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [bolger] inboard engine
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:38:41 -0500
>on 3/22/04 7:03 PM, Lon Wells atlononriver@...wrote:
>
> > I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)inboard
> > boat engines without success. Does any one know of small inboards
> > that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
> > converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
> > experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
> > Lon
>There are a number of small diesel IB engines available, just type marine
>diesel into your search engine and take your pick,
>Grant
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
>Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
ESPN.http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
These small diesels are good engines, I know from personal experience with a Yanmar 2GM20 18 HP motor in my Father's "Merlin" (Marina Cruiser from BWAOM).Also for larger boats a Toyota 3.4L 4cylinder, 90HP at 3400rpm would make a good choice as my father has had one in his Toyota Landcruiser for 21 Years without any mechanical problems at all, except a change of Glow Plugs in nearly 500,000 Kilometers of motoring. I asked Bolger in letter if this size Toyota engine would be suitable for "Bunny R" 28' x10' x 2' 8'' Maine Inshore Lobster Boat and he said it would be ideal, with power in reserve! (Bunny R is a displacement Hull not designed to do much more than 10.5 Knots).
BUT maybe you are missing the point about what Lon Well's is after? Its pretty easy to find info on any of the currently available Marine diesel engines of any size range but ( Lon didn't specify ) I think he maybe after more info on the availability of Inboard Gasoline Engines under 70HP which is another thing entirely, especially new production Inboard Marine Gasoline engines. I too am interested in new production Marine inboards in the 50-150HP(4cyl., V-6) range but most seem to be your huge V8 Chev Block engines of 200+ HP with appalling fuel economy and lots of weight!
It'd be great if a company like Yamaha or Mercury made available their 4 cycle engines used in their 4 stroke outboards for inboard use, then you'd could have a nice, quite and compact 15HP, 25HP, 40,50 or 60HP engine. How about looking around for one of these New 4 strokes with a damaged leg and scavaging the motor and adapting that to an inboard?
Probably a bit of work involved but it has possibilities?
Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania. AUSTRALIA.
David Davis <sharpie3444@...> wrote:
BUT maybe you are missing the point about what Lon Well's is after? Its pretty easy to find info on any of the currently available Marine diesel engines of any size range but ( Lon didn't specify ) I think he maybe after more info on the availability of Inboard Gasoline Engines under 70HP which is another thing entirely, especially new production Inboard Marine Gasoline engines. I too am interested in new production Marine inboards in the 50-150HP(4cyl., V-6) range but most seem to be your huge V8 Chev Block engines of 200+ HP with appalling fuel economy and lots of weight!
It'd be great if a company like Yamaha or Mercury made available their 4 cycle engines used in their 4 stroke outboards for inboard use, then you'd could have a nice, quite and compact 15HP, 25HP, 40,50 or 60HP engine. How about looking around for one of these New 4 strokes with a damaged leg and scavaging the motor and adapting that to an inboard?
Probably a bit of work involved but it has possibilities?
Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania. AUSTRALIA.
David Davis <sharpie3444@...> wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, grant corson <corson@a...> wrote:
> on 3/22/04 7:03 PM, Lon Wells at lononriver@y... wrote:
>
> > I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)
inboard
> > boat engines without success. Does any one know of small
inboards
> > that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
> > converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
> > experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
> > Lon
>
The 50 HP turbocharged VW diesel might be converted to marine use.
A used engine from a junker may have a lot of life left in it. I
sold a Jetta with 230000 miles on it with the engine still going
strong.Parts available worldwide!
David
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, grant corson <corson@a...> wrote:
A used engine from a junker may have a lot of life left in it. I
sold a Jetta with 230000 miles on it with the engine still going
strong.Parts available worldwide!
David
> on 3/22/04 7:03 PM, Lon Wells at lononriver@y... wrote:inboard
>
> > I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)
> > boat engines without success. Does any one know of smallinboards
> > that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking aboutThe 50 HP turbocharged VW diesel might be converted to marine use.
> > converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
> > experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
> > Lon
>
A used engine from a junker may have a lot of life left in it. I
sold a Jetta with 230000 miles on it with the engine still going
strong.Parts available worldwide!
David
> >horses
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snipaway
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Lon, you might want to look at Deutz. PCB recommends them for his Tahiti
design. They come in a range of sizes. The 2011's sound like what you
might be interested in.
http://www.staufferdiesel.com/deutzindratings.html
You can probably find more info doing a Google search.
FrankB
-----Original Message-----
From: Lon Wells [mailto:lononriver@...]
I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)inboard
boat engines without success. Does any one know of small inboards
that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
design. They come in a range of sizes. The 2011's sound like what you
might be interested in.
http://www.staufferdiesel.com/deutzindratings.html
You can probably find more info doing a Google search.
FrankB
-----Original Message-----
From: Lon Wells [mailto:lononriver@...]
I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)inboard
boat engines without success. Does any one know of small inboards
that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
on 3/22/04 7:03 PM, Lon Wells atlononriver@...wrote:
diesel into your search engine and take your pick,
Grant
> I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)inboardThere are a number of small diesel IB engines available, just type marine
> boat engines without success. Does any one know of small inboards
> that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
> converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
> experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
> Lon
diesel into your search engine and take your pick,
Grant
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Around every body of water, there are a small number of businesses
that get the lion's share of the engine business. Here on Long Island
Sound, one is Old Lyme Marina.
Seehttp://www.oldlymemarina.com/mainfiles/repower.htm
There is probably some magic ratio of one engine business per 100
miles of shoreline or something like that. If you peruse the ads in
your more local boating publications (you know, the ones they have to
give away free because no one actually subscribes tot them), you can
probably find the one closest to you.
There is a pretty review of the possibilities at the link above. In
the smaller sizes, say 25hp and under, there are more brands than
their are different engines. That is, several brands sell the same
engine. I'm not sure if there are any that are not made in Japan.
Kubota engines are re-branded a lot, and have the advantage that
parts are available at tractor and industrial equipment places and
prices.
Peter
that get the lion's share of the engine business. Here on Long Island
Sound, one is Old Lyme Marina.
Seehttp://www.oldlymemarina.com/mainfiles/repower.htm
There is probably some magic ratio of one engine business per 100
miles of shoreline or something like that. If you peruse the ads in
your more local boating publications (you know, the ones they have to
give away free because no one actually subscribes tot them), you can
probably find the one closest to you.
There is a pretty review of the possibilities at the link above. In
the smaller sizes, say 25hp and under, there are more brands than
their are different engines. That is, several brands sell the same
engine. I'm not sure if there are any that are not made in Japan.
Kubota engines are re-branded a lot, and have the advantage that
parts are available at tractor and industrial equipment places and
prices.
Peter
I have been looking for information on small (less than 70 hp)inboard
boat engines without success. Does any one know of small inboards
that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
Lon
boat engines without success. Does any one know of small inboards
that are currently being manufactured? I was even thinking about
converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder (Chevrolet Geo they are used for
experimental aircraft and hovercraft).
Lon