Re: plywood?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Hi All,
Another, very similar product to check out is "Apple Ply" from States
Industries in Eugene, Oregon. It is also a multi-ply, low/no void,
very strong, high-quality panel. Check out the glue spec. I'd be
surprised if it wasn't exterior, but don't know for sure. One thing I
also like about it is that it comes in 48" X 96" sheets. The baltic
birch I've only seen in 60" square sheets.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
Mom, why can't I swim in the ocean?
There are sharks
But Mom, Dad's swimming in the ocean!
That's different...he's insured
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:**************************************
> > This is the biggest reason I'm considering better grade ply (likely
> > MDO) for future projects.
> Another plywood to consider is what is called "Baltic birch" around***********************************
> here. It is not considered suitable for exterior use, but has a lot
> of potential for interiors. It is used in Europe a lot it seems. Once
> ecapsulated with epoxy, and painted it is long lasting. A lot of it
> comes from Russia nowadays, whereas the top quality stuff tradionally
> comes from Finland. The Finnish product has water-proof glue, but the
> Russian stuff is questionable.
>
> Cheers, Nels
Hi All,
Another, very similar product to check out is "Apple Ply" from States
Industries in Eugene, Oregon. It is also a multi-ply, low/no void,
very strong, high-quality panel. Check out the glue spec. I'd be
surprised if it wasn't exterior, but don't know for sure. One thing I
also like about it is that it comes in 48" X 96" sheets. The baltic
birch I've only seen in 60" square sheets.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
Mom, why can't I swim in the ocean?
There are sharks
But Mom, Dad's swimming in the ocean!
That's different...he's insured
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
here. It is not considered suitable for exterior use, but has a lot
of potential for interiors. It is used in Europe a lot it seems. Once
ecapsulated with epoxy, and painted it is long lasting. A lot of it
comes from Russia nowadays, whereas the top quality stuff tradionally
comes from Finland. The Finnish product has water-proof glue, but the
Russian stuff is questionable.
Cheers, Nels
> This is the biggest reason I'm considering better grade ply (likelyprep
> MDO) for future projects. It takes a lot of resin and filler to
> the C side of AC fir for glassing. It might be marginally cheaperto
> do this than to start with a more expensive smooth surface, but theto
> epoxy part of boat building is my least favorite. Might be easier
> simply start with something like MDO.Another plywood to consider is what is called "Baltic birch" around
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
here. It is not considered suitable for exterior use, but has a lot
of potential for interiors. It is used in Europe a lot it seems. Once
ecapsulated with epoxy, and painted it is long lasting. A lot of it
comes from Russia nowadays, whereas the top quality stuff tradionally
comes from Finland. The Finnish product has water-proof glue, but the
Russian stuff is questionable.
Cheers, Nels
>Indeed! And don't forget to consider all the time and extra epoxyThis is the biggest reason I'm considering better grade ply (likely
>etc... just to correct the defects and/or make a silk purse from a
>sows ear.For some,money may not be an object or they already have
MDO) for future projects. It takes a lot of resin and filler to prep
the C side of AC fir for glassing. It might be marginally cheaper to
do this than to start with a more expensive smooth surface, but the
epoxy part of boat building is my least favorite. Might be easier to
simply start with something like MDO.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I've used about 80 sheets of 1/2" Meranti 6566 on the Wyoming and it is fantastic stuff for the money. It's better than any marine ply I can find around here anyway. I tried to finish it bright but it does tend to fade even under the varnish. I had 8 coats on the bow section and it has still it changed color. It maybe my varnish but it was rated "good" by Practical Sailor so it should have been able to protect it.
Still, it's great plywood with no voids and doesn't seem to check like the pine and fir types. I have about $45.00 a sheet invested including delivery from Toronto to Denver.
Jeff
Still, it's great plywood with no voids and doesn't seem to check like the pine and fir types. I have about $45.00 a sheet invested including delivery from Toronto to Denver.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Waters
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: plywood?
Hi David
I've built a couple of boats out of BS1088 and 6566 Meranti. Great stuff -
I'd seek it out again. Very friendly to work with and [to my eye] pretty
enough to finish bright [not that I did :) ]. Passed the soak-boil-dry
repeat test cycles without any problems and has held up fine on boats stored
outside in our 4 season climate.
Some suppliers told me that they wouldn't touch it, having had delam
problems, so it pays to batch test I guess.
The stuff cost less than Doug. Fir marine, here in the Pacific North West
where the Fir ply is presumably made...
cheers
Derek
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi David
I've built a couple of boats out of BS1088 and 6566 Meranti. Great stuff -
I'd seek it out again. Very friendly to work with and [to my eye] pretty
enough to finish bright [not that I did :) ]. Passed the soak-boil-dry
repeat test cycles without any problems and has held up fine on boats stored
outside in our 4 season climate.
Some suppliers told me that they wouldn't touch it, having had delam
problems, so it pays to batch test I guess.
The stuff cost less than Doug. Fir marine, here in the Pacific North West
where the Fir ply is presumably made...
cheers
Derek
I've built a couple of boats out of BS1088 and 6566 Meranti. Great stuff -
I'd seek it out again. Very friendly to work with and [to my eye] pretty
enough to finish bright [not that I did :) ]. Passed the soak-boil-dry
repeat test cycles without any problems and has held up fine on boats stored
outside in our 4 season climate.
Some suppliers told me that they wouldn't touch it, having had delam
problems, so it pays to batch test I guess.
The stuff cost less than Doug. Fir marine, here in the Pacific North West
where the Fir ply is presumably made...
cheers
Derek
Has anyone used the red merenti ply? This looks like a great
alternative to ACX.
I used marine grade fir ply for my Micro and the finishing was
relatively easy. I used ACX for Diablo. It has held up fine for a
period of 10 years, but still looks horrible inside (outside glassed
in epoxy/dynel). The framing lumber has been more of an issue, with
the seat framing rotting out, and the transom rotted, (note: the
transom was constructed of 3/8th Luan...never use this in a boat!) I
have replaced all and the boat is fine now!
We will be building a Pointy Skiff or two this summer as my old one
will be left at the landing. No one would dare steal it!
David Jost
alternative to ACX.
I used marine grade fir ply for my Micro and the finishing was
relatively easy. I used ACX for Diablo. It has held up fine for a
period of 10 years, but still looks horrible inside (outside glassed
in epoxy/dynel). The framing lumber has been more of an issue, with
the seat framing rotting out, and the transom rotted, (note: the
transom was constructed of 3/8th Luan...never use this in a boat!) I
have replaced all and the boat is fine now!
We will be building a Pointy Skiff or two this summer as my old one
will be left at the landing. No one would dare steal it!
David Jost
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Davis" <sharpie3444@y...> wrote:
It may be worth defining what is meant by the term "flexing"
especially since wood can virtually flex"forever" without failure.
(example; free standing wood spars).Certainly,if one follows a
competent designers scantlings,then one can expect the boat to be
plenty solid.Experiencing some deflection in a panel will not destroy
the panels integrity but may feel "odd" to someone sitting in the
boat,at least, and if built to too light a scantling(under-
engineered),at worse, may result in the bonds failing between say
panels and structural members.This,of course,may lead to disasterous
results.It all depends on just how excessive the loading
is.Hopefully,most of us will not find ourselves out in weather where
extreme conditions can overwhelm not only the crew but the boat
itself.
this "free" time to ensure careful and accurate setups of station
molds/bulkheads etc...or to fuss with attaining"perfect"
joints.Careful preparation in the early stages can go a long way
toward eliminating virtually all low spots or high spots.What little
may remain are readily addressed with lots of sanding.Time consumming
but cheap since time is plentiful.......
required to float or use a boat.Besides,just about anything can be
made to float with a minimum of effort. I do however,have two
observations regarding the much flaunted"workboat finish" ethic. The
first is that some folks appear to use this appellation to excuse or
justify what is essentially shoddy workmanship,both in material
selection and construction methods, and pass it on to an unsuspecting
public.It has always been my understanding that a workboat finish
refers to the lack of "high maintenance" varnished surfaces
and,instead,leaving these surfaces simply painted.
The second observation is that boats that look"cheap-n-dirty" end up
recieving cheap-n-dirty maintenence which is quickly followed on its
heels by its close cousin,abject neglect.The short term consequence
of this is a failing interest towards using the boat by its owner.The
long term,and perhaps more significant consequence,is a dismal regard
for wooden boats in general and the public perception that wooden
boats are somehow "cheap" and too difficult to maintain,ie;not worth
investing much into them. With todays technologies and now proven
construction methods,it is clear that if attention is paid to the
details,especially in the early stages, and time is made to "get it
right" then the finished product will be a lasting testament to those
efforts and both a joy to behold and use for its owner(s).
I know it can be tempting as all get out to want to be on the water
and not in the shop ASAP! Many folks have enquired of me as to
exactly when do I expect to launch. I would dearly love to respond
with a "tomorrow!" but I know too that any corners I cut now will
sooner or later have to be properly addressed.With my luck that
usually will mean that after the boat is launched and probably right
in the middle of high summer,I will be forced to stop playing Captain
Molson,tell all the invited guests and celebrities to go home,empty
out the boat and correct what I short-changed during the construction
phase.Believe me, this is NOT something I want to ever have to do,
being such a lazy beer drinking boat bum that I am, and I figure it
is mucho easier to work things out now before the festivities are
even thought of :-)
But that is just my opinion.Perhaps it is true what some say and I
lost all my marbles years ago and need to get back to basics like
some good ole ACX ply,a bucket of polyester resin,some balcony paint
and a bed sheet and get sailing sooner.Who Knows............:-)
Sorry about this ridiculously long post.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,practicing his English once again,from along the shores
of the St.Lawrence..........
> Talking lead keel sailboats now, it can't be good for the plywoodDavid,
> to flex, it is tough but no matter what it only has so many flexes
> in it before failure,
It may be worth defining what is meant by the term "flexing"
especially since wood can virtually flex"forever" without failure.
(example; free standing wood spars).Certainly,if one follows a
competent designers scantlings,then one can expect the boat to be
plenty solid.Experiencing some deflection in a panel will not destroy
the panels integrity but may feel "odd" to someone sitting in the
boat,at least, and if built to too light a scantling(under-
engineered),at worse, may result in the bonds failing between say
panels and structural members.This,of course,may lead to disasterous
results.It all depends on just how excessive the loading
is.Hopefully,most of us will not find ourselves out in weather where
extreme conditions can overwhelm not only the crew but the boat
itself.
> Still remember some of us have more time than money and $ 20.00If time is indeed plentiful, then there is little reason not to use
> worth of bondo will fill a lot of low spots that make sanding the
> high spots easy or not needed.
this "free" time to ensure careful and accurate setups of station
molds/bulkheads etc...or to fuss with attaining"perfect"
joints.Careful preparation in the early stages can go a long way
toward eliminating virtually all low spots or high spots.What little
may remain are readily addressed with lots of sanding.Time consumming
but cheap since time is plentiful.......
> Did Mr. Bolger intend for the "cheap" plywood boats to be supergoes
> finished?? Can if you want to, whatever gives you pleasure, but
> that don,t get them on the water!! Sometimes "Workboat finish"
> with the character of the boat and that is all that is needed.I think Bolger has at times mentioned that a yacht finish is not
required to float or use a boat.Besides,just about anything can be
made to float with a minimum of effort. I do however,have two
observations regarding the much flaunted"workboat finish" ethic. The
first is that some folks appear to use this appellation to excuse or
justify what is essentially shoddy workmanship,both in material
selection and construction methods, and pass it on to an unsuspecting
public.It has always been my understanding that a workboat finish
refers to the lack of "high maintenance" varnished surfaces
and,instead,leaving these surfaces simply painted.
The second observation is that boats that look"cheap-n-dirty" end up
recieving cheap-n-dirty maintenence which is quickly followed on its
heels by its close cousin,abject neglect.The short term consequence
of this is a failing interest towards using the boat by its owner.The
long term,and perhaps more significant consequence,is a dismal regard
for wooden boats in general and the public perception that wooden
boats are somehow "cheap" and too difficult to maintain,ie;not worth
investing much into them. With todays technologies and now proven
construction methods,it is clear that if attention is paid to the
details,especially in the early stages, and time is made to "get it
right" then the finished product will be a lasting testament to those
efforts and both a joy to behold and use for its owner(s).
I know it can be tempting as all get out to want to be on the water
and not in the shop ASAP! Many folks have enquired of me as to
exactly when do I expect to launch. I would dearly love to respond
with a "tomorrow!" but I know too that any corners I cut now will
sooner or later have to be properly addressed.With my luck that
usually will mean that after the boat is launched and probably right
in the middle of high summer,I will be forced to stop playing Captain
Molson,tell all the invited guests and celebrities to go home,empty
out the boat and correct what I short-changed during the construction
phase.Believe me, this is NOT something I want to ever have to do,
being such a lazy beer drinking boat bum that I am, and I figure it
is mucho easier to work things out now before the festivities are
even thought of :-)
But that is just my opinion.Perhaps it is true what some say and I
lost all my marbles years ago and need to get back to basics like
some good ole ACX ply,a bucket of polyester resin,some balcony paint
and a bed sheet and get sailing sooner.Who Knows............:-)
Sorry about this ridiculously long post.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,practicing his English once again,from along the shores
of the St.Lawrence..........
Thanks Peter and Nels,
I've been whiling away the non-buildable hours trying to get better
organized for when I can jump back in, and this popped into my head the
other day. I like the idea of easy maintenance! Sounds like it is worth a
try.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Lenihan [mailto:peterlenihan@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
I've been whiling away the non-buildable hours trying to get better
organized for when I can jump back in, and this popped into my head the
other day. I like the idea of easy maintenance! Sounds like it is worth a
try.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Lenihan [mailto:peterlenihan@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
are you referring
> to 'Cetol Marine' as a sort of stain coat and then 'Cetol Marine
Gloss' as a
> varnish-like topcoat? > Paul
Hi Paul,
If I may,the reply to your question is indeed Cetol Marine which
relies on an oil based sealer/stain coats left as is or subsequently
top coated with their satin or gloss varnish-like finish.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
are you referring
> to 'Cetol Marine' as a sort of stain coat and then 'Cetol Marine
Gloss' as a
> varnish-like topcoat? > Paul
Hi Paul,
If I may,the reply to your question is indeed Cetol Marine which
relies on an oil based sealer/stain coats left as is or subsequently
top coated with their satin or gloss varnish-like finish.
Maintenance of this finish is dead simple as it requires but a
slight scuffing up of the surface,with say a 3m scouring pad,and
presto! you are ready to re-apply a few coats of "varnish".Unless you
intend on keeping your Micro down in the sunny-all-the-time
tropics,following the instructions on the can will give a remarkably
stable and durable low-maintenance finish.Ideal for exposed hardwoods
such as toerails,rubrails,companionway rails etc....
The areas on board LESTAT,which Nels refers,to represent the
results of two seasons worth of shameful neglect on my part since
LESTAT sat under semi-covered storage while I was happily playing
boatbuilder with WINDERMEREs bottom :-)
I think you will greatly appreciate Paul,just how nicely this product
gives you a uniform and stable sub-surface to support a slick low-
maintenance top coat finish.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who hasn't forgotten to send Nels his Cetol but is just
waiting for the chandler to re-open for this coming seasons boating
maddness,from along the shores of the ice-chunk-packed
St.Lawrence.........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Davis" <sharpie3444@y...> wrote:
and deck surfaces. This is also where some extra bracing may be
useful. As for the hull itself, there should be no flexing at all,
unless one gets a good thump, then a bit of flex may be helpful.
On a Bolger sharpie, once the topsides and bottom are bent over and
around the bulkheads and then a box keel or keelson added - you
really have an incredibley strong "box beam" assembly. Using better
quality ply makes it even stronger as all the plys are effectively
adding their bending qualities. I would suggest there is a huge
difference between 5 ply marine grade and the cheap stuff that has
one thick ply in the center and two thin skins on the outside. It is
however quite easy to understand why 5 equally thick skins is a much
more expensive process and demands better quality wood to begin with.
Therefore a MICRO built from 5 ply 1/4 inch would quite likely be
strong enough. But if cheaper plywood is used one might want to go up
to whatever thickness it takes to get 5 plys. The trade off would be,
thinner veneer skins and more voids.
If finished to Peter's standards it could last 100 years. If not, it
could last 10 to 15 probably. Either way it will make a pretty good
boat. It is amazing how quickly 10 years go by - and how quickly the
price of plywood rises:-)
Cheers, Nels
>> Talking lead keel sailboats now, it can't be good for the plywoodWhen I was talking about flexing I was referring more to the cabin
> to flex, it is tough but no matter what it only has so many flexes
> in it before failure, a second or third layer on the bottom has a
> lot of advantages--on flatties of any kind it is the easy place to
> add layers and weight where it is usefully.
and deck surfaces. This is also where some extra bracing may be
useful. As for the hull itself, there should be no flexing at all,
unless one gets a good thump, then a bit of flex may be helpful.
On a Bolger sharpie, once the topsides and bottom are bent over and
around the bulkheads and then a box keel or keelson added - you
really have an incredibley strong "box beam" assembly. Using better
quality ply makes it even stronger as all the plys are effectively
adding their bending qualities. I would suggest there is a huge
difference between 5 ply marine grade and the cheap stuff that has
one thick ply in the center and two thin skins on the outside. It is
however quite easy to understand why 5 equally thick skins is a much
more expensive process and demands better quality wood to begin with.
Therefore a MICRO built from 5 ply 1/4 inch would quite likely be
strong enough. But if cheaper plywood is used one might want to go up
to whatever thickness it takes to get 5 plys. The trade off would be,
thinner veneer skins and more voids.
If finished to Peter's standards it could last 100 years. If not, it
could last 10 to 15 probably. Either way it will make a pretty good
boat. It is amazing how quickly 10 years go by - and how quickly the
price of plywood rises:-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
I remembered
> hearing rave reviews years ago about a product that was lower
maintenance
> than regular varnish, and it sounds like this is it. All I know
about boat
> finishes is epoxy and Epifanes, from my lengthy but rather narrow
> boatbuilding focus up until Micro...
>
> Paul
Hi Paul,
I don't have the background information handy. Maybe Peter will
respond. But this is certainly lower mainenance, compared to the best
regular Captain's varnish. And is very UV resistant. I believe he
used the satin finish and not the high gloss. The only areas where it
is crazing a bit is along the top edges of the brightwork - the areas
that get the bulk of the sun. It is made by Sikkens. I don't have any
myself and could not find it locally so Peter is going to send me
some, when I follow up on MY commitments.
(Sending him a video of our trip to get the boat. I still have to
edit it to make it suitable for family viewing;-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
paint it and put it in the water crowd". Hope I fall somewhere in
the middle.
The discussion started with 1000 to 2000 pound boats with lead keels
and moved to avid canoeist, can't be discussed in the same sentence.
I like the comment about the 1/2 BC plywood lasting 10 years and
going strong on the little tug boat, the 3/8 BC ply may be too light-
depends on the frame spacing and bracing. Also I like the above
comment about added bracing. With 1/2 BC pine ply sides and 1/2
inch BC pine"box" framing for a couple bunks the Bolger Box type of
sharpie should be stiff at least up to 22 feet.
Talking lead keel sailboats now, it can't be good for the plywood
to flex, it is tough but no matter what it only has so many flexes
in it before failure, a second or third layer on the bottom has a
lot of advantages--on flatties of any kind it is the easy place to
add layers and weight where it is usefully. With 500 to 1000 pounds
of lead ballast in use it is silly to be concerned about and extra
1/8 inch of wood in the plywood, can't be more than 50 to 100 pounds
on a 1500 pound boat designed to carry 1000 to 1200 pounds of crew
and cargo, besides maybe half of it would be below the waterline and
displace more than its own weight and act as good ballast at the
same time.
Still remember some of us have more time than money and $ 20.00
worth of bondo will fill a lot of low spots that make sanding the
high spots easy or not needed.
Did Mr. Bolger intend for the "cheap" plywood boats to be super
finished?? Can if you want to, whatever gives you pleasure, but
that don,t get them on the water!! Sometimes "Workboat finish" goes
with the character of the boat and that is all that is needed.
Have Fun, Wonderful discussion!!
David
>might
> I would tend to agree with Bob as well, being an avid canoeist
> myself - heavier is not necessarily stronger, or better. When it
> comes to plywood, moving up to quality and down one thickness
> be the best way to go. If a person wants to add stiffness, you canGood discussion, The bright and flawless finishers and the "just
> either add glass or more bracing. Just because plywood flexes does
> not mean you are going to fall through:
>
> Cheers, Nels
paint it and put it in the water crowd". Hope I fall somewhere in
the middle.
The discussion started with 1000 to 2000 pound boats with lead keels
and moved to avid canoeist, can't be discussed in the same sentence.
I like the comment about the 1/2 BC plywood lasting 10 years and
going strong on the little tug boat, the 3/8 BC ply may be too light-
depends on the frame spacing and bracing. Also I like the above
comment about added bracing. With 1/2 BC pine ply sides and 1/2
inch BC pine"box" framing for a couple bunks the Bolger Box type of
sharpie should be stiff at least up to 22 feet.
Talking lead keel sailboats now, it can't be good for the plywood
to flex, it is tough but no matter what it only has so many flexes
in it before failure, a second or third layer on the bottom has a
lot of advantages--on flatties of any kind it is the easy place to
add layers and weight where it is usefully. With 500 to 1000 pounds
of lead ballast in use it is silly to be concerned about and extra
1/8 inch of wood in the plywood, can't be more than 50 to 100 pounds
on a 1500 pound boat designed to carry 1000 to 1200 pounds of crew
and cargo, besides maybe half of it would be below the waterline and
displace more than its own weight and act as good ballast at the
same time.
Still remember some of us have more time than money and $ 20.00
worth of bondo will fill a lot of low spots that make sanding the
high spots easy or not needed.
Did Mr. Bolger intend for the "cheap" plywood boats to be super
finished?? Can if you want to, whatever gives you pleasure, but
that don,t get them on the water!! Sometimes "Workboat finish" goes
with the character of the boat and that is all that is needed.
Have Fun, Wonderful discussion!!
David
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
I'd weigh in with the guys reccommending quality ply. Additionally
the okume can be finished natural nicely on the interior topsides and
bulkheads, etc. Good FIR ply (five ply half inch) will serve for the
bottom but is better sheathed both sides. I used the S1 epoxy sealer
on fir ply on the last boat I built (quite awhile ago) and that
mostly killed the checking monster. But I vowed never again fir ply.
Someone once wrote that the joy of saving money doesn't last long
where the pain of poor quality does. Robert
wrote:
I'd weigh in with the guys reccommending quality ply. Additionally
the okume can be finished natural nicely on the interior topsides and
bulkheads, etc. Good FIR ply (five ply half inch) will serve for the
bottom but is better sheathed both sides. I used the S1 epoxy sealer
on fir ply on the last boat I built (quite awhile ago) and that
mostly killed the checking monster. But I vowed never again fir ply.
Someone once wrote that the joy of saving money doesn't last long
where the pain of poor quality does. Robert
> I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered theit
> dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
> this afternoon. Have the silicon bronze ring nails and screws in my
> hand. Got a quote i can agree with for tanbark sails with 3 reefs
> for either of the boats. Just can't decide if i want to go with
> marine okume or luberyard stuff(fir or pine crap). I have this fear
> of severe checking even though i'm not real sure i even know what
> is. I have'nt had any of the other boats i've build more than ayear
> so i don't know what happened to them when they moved on. Is itand
> feasible to use lesser quality where they are no curves i.e.
> bulkheads. I plan to coat everything with epoxy, tape the chines
> keel and cover the bottom with dynel so i'm not so worried aboutmuch
> water getting in just how it will look/hold together in 5 years.
> This is a big project for me and i'm not in too big a hurry, but
> ordering 900 dollars worth of bs1088 okume plywood is almost to
> to stomach, i'm not rich just have quite a bit of free time! After
> putting this much time into a boat i want it to last.....help
> Jason Stancil
> PS i'm planing on 1/4" all around with two layers of 1/4" on the
> bottom
-----Original Message-----
From: Nels [mailto:arvent@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
to 'Cetol Marine' as a sort of stain coat and then 'Cetol Marine Gloss' as a
varnish-like topcoat? I think this is the information I was looking for
yesterday in my post 'mahogany finishes' that got no replies; I remembered
hearing rave reviews years ago about a product that was lower maintenance
than regular varnish, and it sounds like this is it. All I know about boat
finishes is epoxy and Epifanes, from my lengthy but rather narrow
boatbuilding focus up until Micro...
Paul
From: Nels [mailto:arvent@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
>Another finish that he uses is Cetol on the brightwork, which is muchNels, I just did a little search on this to learn more - are you referring
>more durable than varnish. The masts and sprits are varnished, and
>they are the only parts that need re-finishing, although I plan to
>sand and redo the brightwork with Cetol. Not because it needs it but
>because Peter told me to:-)
>Cheers, Nels
to 'Cetol Marine' as a sort of stain coat and then 'Cetol Marine Gloss' as a
varnish-like topcoat? I think this is the information I was looking for
yesterday in my post 'mahogany finishes' that got no replies; I remembered
hearing rave reviews years ago about a product that was lower maintenance
than regular varnish, and it sounds like this is it. All I know about boat
finishes is epoxy and Epifanes, from my lengthy but rather narrow
boatbuilding focus up until Micro...
Paul
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> >
Anyway,all that to say I agree with Bob.
myself - heavier is not necessarily stronger, or better. When it
comes to plywood, moving up to quality and down one thickness might
be the best way to go. If a person wants to add stiffness, you can
either add glass or more bracing. Just because plywood flexes does
not mean you are going to fall through:-)
For a visual comparison of good quality plywoods go here:
http://www.noahsmarine.com/United_States/Plywoods-us/plywoods-us.html
You will notice three things. First the higher quality wood has more
plys than the cheap. Generally five plys in 1/4" size. Also, you will
notice that the better plywoods have the thicker face veneers.And
understand that you pay a premium for the Lloyds designation.
An example here is the 1088 meranti. The 1/2" has 9 plys and 1.5 mm
face veneers. It is not Lloyds certified, but I would bet it is a
really good plywood. A manufacturer would just not use poor quality
materials to make a plywood with those kinds of specs. It would not
make economic sense.
Cheers, Nels
Anyway,all that to say I agree with Bob.
>I would tend to agree with Bob as well, being an avid canoeist
> Best of luck with your Bantam, Bob and post pictures of her for us
> to ooogle along with you.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,glad to know he is not alone.........
myself - heavier is not necessarily stronger, or better. When it
comes to plywood, moving up to quality and down one thickness might
be the best way to go. If a person wants to add stiffness, you can
either add glass or more bracing. Just because plywood flexes does
not mean you are going to fall through:-)
For a visual comparison of good quality plywoods go here:
http://www.noahsmarine.com/United_States/Plywoods-us/plywoods-us.html
You will notice three things. First the higher quality wood has more
plys than the cheap. Generally five plys in 1/4" size. Also, you will
notice that the better plywoods have the thicker face veneers.And
understand that you pay a premium for the Lloyds designation.
An example here is the 1088 meranti. The 1/2" has 9 plys and 1.5 mm
face veneers. It is not Lloyds certified, but I would bet it is a
really good plywood. A manufacturer would just not use poor quality
materials to make a plywood with those kinds of specs. It would not
make economic sense.
Cheers, Nels
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Lenihan [mailto:peterlenihan@...]
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
the temps to warm up enough to pull the tarp off her and get back to work.
It was a mercifully short winter though - I was working outdoors on her up
until the first weekend in January! Can't complain.
I'll try to get some pics up soon
Paul
From: Peter Lenihan [mailto:peterlenihan@...]
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
>Can't wait to see some photos Paul........you must be going crazyActually I'm going nuts waiting for last week's late-season snow to melt and
>with excitement contemplating the launch!
the temps to warm up enough to pull the tarp off her and get back to work.
It was a mercifully short winter though - I was working outdoors on her up
until the first weekend in January! Can't complain.
I'll try to get some pics up soon
Paul
I hope you got a quote from Boulter Plywood. They did real well for me a
couple of years ago on BS 1088.
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
Roger (just a satisfied customer)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
couple of years ago on BS 1088.
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
Roger (just a satisfied customer)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillip Lea" <phillip_lea@...>
> Jason,
>
> Please share with us your findings. Max (in St. Louis) said that
> his closest source was Kansas City. I am interested in suppliers,
> shipping costs, etc.
>
> Phil Lea
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
> <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> > I just requested a
> > quote for 13 sheets of 3/8 inch MDO in both the traffic
> > and two step
> > grades. What can i expect compared to the high grade
> > okume i already got a quote for. I'm scared.
> > Jason Stancil
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
<jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
with the MDO you'll have perhaps the finest surface that you can get
for sealing and painting.Also,it is a pleasure to do all your layout
right on the overlay with a pencil.Almost like drawing on paper!
Your lines will be clear and straight,mistakes can simply be erased
and your cuts will have crisp sharp edges.If you make the time for a
good finish,your efforts will be rewarded with outstanding
results.I'd be inclined to use high grade real marine ply only for
areas that I know will be expected to be varnished and if that
particular look of natural wood grain is valued. Otherwise it seems
a shame to cover all that beauty with paint.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
<jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> I just requested astep
> quote for 13 sheets of 3/8 inch MDO in both the traffic and two
> grades. What can i expect compared to the high grade okume ialready
> got a quote for.No need to fear Jason! I can't say what to expect price-wise but
> I'm scared.
> Jason Stancil
with the MDO you'll have perhaps the finest surface that you can get
for sealing and painting.Also,it is a pleasure to do all your layout
right on the overlay with a pencil.Almost like drawing on paper!
Your lines will be clear and straight,mistakes can simply be erased
and your cuts will have crisp sharp edges.If you make the time for a
good finish,your efforts will be rewarded with outstanding
results.I'd be inclined to use high grade real marine ply only for
areas that I know will be expected to be varnished and if that
particular look of natural wood grain is valued. Otherwise it seems
a shame to cover all that beauty with paint.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
Ain't whining,just lamenting:-) You'll know that feeling too
if you can just finish your own Micro instead of drumming up
interest for homemade aircraft carriers,longest-narrowest-boat-
record attempts,raiding parties in gigs,polishing everyones war
relic and just going for a short 3200 mile drive..........
Are you still down South harrassing the neighbours,terrorizing the
citizens and basically drinking their bars dry? What's that? You
are? Great!!!We of the North are still safe for a while yet then,eh!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,relieved to know that his stash of brewskis is safe
from "Thirstys" wide open and bottomless trap.......at least for a
little while.............
wrote:
> Quit yer' crying and git' building that gin palace of'n yer's.Hi Buddy Bruce!
>
> Bo'sun Bruce
Ain't whining,just lamenting:-) You'll know that feeling too
if you can just finish your own Micro instead of drumming up
interest for homemade aircraft carriers,longest-narrowest-boat-
record attempts,raiding parties in gigs,polishing everyones war
relic and just going for a short 3200 mile drive..........
Are you still down South harrassing the neighbours,terrorizing the
citizens and basically drinking their bars dry? What's that? You
are? Great!!!We of the North are still safe for a while yet then,eh!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,relieved to know that his stash of brewskis is safe
from "Thirstys" wide open and bottomless trap.......at least for a
little while.............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, RKAMILS@a... wrote:
I don't want to spend all that time to build a boat
> only to have problems with crappy plywood. It's a poor savings.
>
> Bob
Indeed! And don't forget to consider all the time and extra epoxy
etc... just to correct the defects and/or make a silk purse from a
sows ear.For some,money may not be an object or they already have
gallons of epoxy"left over" from a previous project thus making it
easier to rationalize the use of crappier plywood.However,there is
nothing more discouraging during a new build then to waste valuable
time doing jobs you just know would not be necessary had a better
quality material been used in the first place.
Something I have noticed too is that few folks actually know just
how long they will keep a boat.Many intend on keeping it for oh,say
a season or two,but life happens and the next thing you know 5 years
have flown right by,everyone is having a grand time with the boat
BUT the darned thing is falling apart! Kinda makes you wish you did
it right or at least better the first time,no?
Anyway,all that to say I agree with Bob.
Best of luck with your Bantam, Bob and post pictures of her for us
to ooogle along with you.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,glad to know he is not alone.........
Jason,
Please share with us your findings. Max (in St. Louis) said that
his closest source was Kansas City. I am interested in suppliers,
shipping costs, etc.
Phil Lea
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
<jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
Please share with us your findings. Max (in St. Louis) said that
his closest source was Kansas City. I am interested in suppliers,
shipping costs, etc.
Phil Lea
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
<jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> I just requested a
> quote for 13 sheets of 3/8 inch MDO in both the traffic
> and two step
> grades. What can i expect compared to the high grade
> okume i already got a quote for. I'm scared.
> Jason Stancil
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> wrote:
WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!"
Quit yer' crying and git' building that gin palace of'n yer's.
Bo'sun Bruce
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! I miss my baby!!!!!!!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!"
Quit yer' crying and git' building that gin palace of'n yer's.
Bo'sun Bruce
Here's something I haven't seen anyone address on why marine play versus reg.
BC, etc. It is the number of plys. More plys make for a stiffer, stronger
panel. I used BC from Menards to build my Micro Trawler, but that called for
1/2", which is really overkill for a 14'6" boat, so the cheaper ply, glassed,
worked fine. It's 10 years old now and still in great shape.
1/4" or 3/8" is a problem because, at least around here, both only come in 3
ply, which is crap. With an unknown void in the thick middle ply, it's too
weak.
I'm using 1/4" Meranti marine ply for building Bantam, because, as others
have already pointed out, I don't want to spend all that time to build a boat
only to have problems with crappy plywood. It's a poor savings.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BC, etc. It is the number of plys. More plys make for a stiffer, stronger
panel. I used BC from Menards to build my Micro Trawler, but that called for
1/2", which is really overkill for a 14'6" boat, so the cheaper ply, glassed,
worked fine. It's 10 years old now and still in great shape.
1/4" or 3/8" is a problem because, at least around here, both only come in 3
ply, which is crap. With an unknown void in the thick middle ply, it's too
weak.
I'm using 1/4" Meranti marine ply for building Bantam, because, as others
have already pointed out, I don't want to spend all that time to build a boat
only to have problems with crappy plywood. It's a poor savings.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I thought it was question of two types of ply and now it's three.
Lestat's builder made it sound soooo good. Doh! I just requested a
quote for 13 sheets of 3/8 inch MDO in both the traffic and two step
grades. What can i expect compared to the high grade okume i already
got a quote for.
I'm scared.
Jason Stancil
Lestat's builder made it sound soooo good. Doh! I just requested a
quote for 13 sheets of 3/8 inch MDO in both the traffic and two step
grades. What can i expect compared to the high grade okume i already
got a quote for.
I'm scared.
Jason Stancil
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
You have almost as many pictures as I've got of her Nels :-)
Peter "weep weep boo hoo" Lenihan..........
> If you go to the Photo folder LESTAT in Bolger3WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! I miss my baby!!!!!!!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
You have almost as many pictures as I've got of her Nels :-)
Peter "weep weep boo hoo" Lenihan..........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
squawls and howling winds while screwing together some of the last
bits of my modified bowshed out at my all-out-doors-all-the-time-boat-
shop only to end up missing some group fun:-)
Yes Paul,Nels is correct regarding LESTAT.And yes too,I am a bit of a
sanding nut.Most folks would say I went overboard on essentially a
plywood box and that it is not needed just to have fun with a
boat.They would be most correct! However,I have no regrets about
having taken the time to do it the way I did since it gave me years
of care-free use and will now go on to give Nels many more years
worth of fun also.
If you enjoyed the appearance of my brightwork on LESTAT,go the Cetol
route,get the two parts.......the oil stain sealer and the
slick"varnish" top coat.
As for plywood options,I am a sucker for high grade MDO.This stuff
really has to be worked with to be appreciated compared to a standard
fir sheet and,caveat emptor,some el cheapo stuff calling itself MDO.
For those wondering just what I consider high grade MDO,check out
CREZON,TWO STEP etc here:
http://www.simpson-plywood.com/
I,and others of my aquaintance, have worked with this stuff for years
and have yet to experience anything that would qualify it as a
failure.It is available as small as 3/8" and even used to be
available in 1/4" when CROWN FOREST first made the stuff before the
SIMPSON buy-out.
And here is a tip for those who want G1S MDO,the high grade stuff
(regardless of brand) will have a redish hue on the unfinished fir
side while the el cheapo stuff will be pale and white looking fir
(looking perhaps more like spruce,in fact).This is probably very
young,quick grown stock and not as stable/durable as the more mature
fir.
A MICRO could be built with all 1/2" and,as has been mentioned in the
group before, the slight increase in weight may enhance its
performance under certain conditions.It would represent only a slight
increase in weight since it is the net difference between say 3/8"
and 1/2" which must be calculated.None of the curves are too great
for 1/2" to take either. However,about the only place where 1/2" will
certainly make a difference is in the bottom and bulkheads.Using
1/2" EVERYWHERE?.............now that is going overboard :-D
Finally,and not wishing to sound too much like a skipping record,for
a truly handsome finish that even your mother would love,it is all in
the preparation.Yup,lots of sanding and while you are taking a break
from the sanding,make time to read the label on the products you are
sanding or intending on covering with.
Can't wait to see some photos Paul........you must be going crazy
with excitement contemplating the launch!
Sincerely,
Peter"the sanding fool" Lenihan, ready for a nice long hot shower and
grateful for Nels' kind words( an amateur boatbuilder can't buy that
kind of testamonial!),from along the shores of the
St.Lawrence............
> Yeah, I was hoping he would chime in as well.and to think that I spent a better part of the day fighting off snow
squawls and howling winds while screwing together some of the last
bits of my modified bowshed out at my all-out-doors-all-the-time-boat-
shop only to end up missing some group fun:-)
Yes Paul,Nels is correct regarding LESTAT.And yes too,I am a bit of a
sanding nut.Most folks would say I went overboard on essentially a
plywood box and that it is not needed just to have fun with a
boat.They would be most correct! However,I have no regrets about
having taken the time to do it the way I did since it gave me years
of care-free use and will now go on to give Nels many more years
worth of fun also.
If you enjoyed the appearance of my brightwork on LESTAT,go the Cetol
route,get the two parts.......the oil stain sealer and the
slick"varnish" top coat.
As for plywood options,I am a sucker for high grade MDO.This stuff
really has to be worked with to be appreciated compared to a standard
fir sheet and,caveat emptor,some el cheapo stuff calling itself MDO.
For those wondering just what I consider high grade MDO,check out
CREZON,TWO STEP etc here:
http://www.simpson-plywood.com/
I,and others of my aquaintance, have worked with this stuff for years
and have yet to experience anything that would qualify it as a
failure.It is available as small as 3/8" and even used to be
available in 1/4" when CROWN FOREST first made the stuff before the
SIMPSON buy-out.
And here is a tip for those who want G1S MDO,the high grade stuff
(regardless of brand) will have a redish hue on the unfinished fir
side while the el cheapo stuff will be pale and white looking fir
(looking perhaps more like spruce,in fact).This is probably very
young,quick grown stock and not as stable/durable as the more mature
fir.
A MICRO could be built with all 1/2" and,as has been mentioned in the
group before, the slight increase in weight may enhance its
performance under certain conditions.It would represent only a slight
increase in weight since it is the net difference between say 3/8"
and 1/2" which must be calculated.None of the curves are too great
for 1/2" to take either. However,about the only place where 1/2" will
certainly make a difference is in the bottom and bulkheads.Using
1/2" EVERYWHERE?.............now that is going overboard :-D
Finally,and not wishing to sound too much like a skipping record,for
a truly handsome finish that even your mother would love,it is all in
the preparation.Yup,lots of sanding and while you are taking a break
from the sanding,make time to read the label on the products you are
sanding or intending on covering with.
Can't wait to see some photos Paul........you must be going crazy
with excitement contemplating the launch!
Sincerely,
Peter"the sanding fool" Lenihan, ready for a nice long hot shower and
grateful for Nels' kind words( an amateur boatbuilder can't buy that
kind of testamonial!),from along the shores of the
St.Lawrence............
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:How's
> sheIf you go to the Photo folder LESTAT in Bolger3 and look at
> > looking these days, Nels?
>
#16 "another view" - it gives you a pretty good idea of the finish.
It was taken last October.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping he would chime in as well. He did use 3/8" MDO on
the topsides and 1/2" on the bottom. The boat looks almost as good as
the day it was launched, except for probably some slight fading of
the Interlux marine paint. The sufaces are smooth without any trace
of checking anywhere. The boat is so well finished that one would be
hard pressed to know it was plywood except for the shape:-)
Peter's "secret". which I am sure he will share once again, is that
he uses about 3 or four very thin coats of sealing epoxy (S1 from
Industrial Formulators) to fully seal the plywood to a glass like
finish and then does a lot of prepping before painting.
For glassing, he used S2 laminating resin which he applies with a
plasterers trowel. Again about four applications, until the weave is
completely filled.
Another finish that he uses is Cetol on the brightwork, which is much
more durable than varnish. The masts and sprits are varnished, and
they are the only parts that need re-finishing, although I plan to
sand and redo the brightwork with Cetol. Not because it needs it but
because Peter told me to:-)
Cheers, Nels
> I keep waiting for Peter Lenihan to chime in; I believe Lestat wasbuilt
> entirely with 3/8" MDO ply, perhaps doubled up on the bottom, andglass
> sheathed only below the waterline if I'm not mistaken - epoxysealed and
> painted elsewhere. She was ~10 years old when I sailed on her atChamplain,
> and her finish was flawless. She felt VERY stout and solid. How'sshe
> looking these days, Nels?Hi Paul,
Yeah, I was hoping he would chime in as well. He did use 3/8" MDO on
the topsides and 1/2" on the bottom. The boat looks almost as good as
the day it was launched, except for probably some slight fading of
the Interlux marine paint. The sufaces are smooth without any trace
of checking anywhere. The boat is so well finished that one would be
hard pressed to know it was plywood except for the shape:-)
Peter's "secret". which I am sure he will share once again, is that
he uses about 3 or four very thin coats of sealing epoxy (S1 from
Industrial Formulators) to fully seal the plywood to a glass like
finish and then does a lot of prepping before painting.
For glassing, he used S2 laminating resin which he applies with a
plasterers trowel. Again about four applications, until the weave is
completely filled.
Another finish that he uses is Cetol on the brightwork, which is much
more durable than varnish. The masts and sprits are varnished, and
they are the only parts that need re-finishing, although I plan to
sand and redo the brightwork with Cetol. Not because it needs it but
because Peter told me to:-)
Cheers, Nels
--- David Romasco wrote:
But, I was unable to locate any double sided
MDO thinner than 1/2". And, 1/2" plywood
doesn't bend very easily to the curves
you need with a Micro.
One of the advantages of a Micro is it's
light weight. Upsizing things adds weight.
> I suggest you explore double-faced MDO as anI too think that MDO is an excellent value.
> alternative. It's more costly
But, I was unable to locate any double sided
MDO thinner than 1/2". And, 1/2" plywood
doesn't bend very easily to the curves
you need with a Micro.
One of the advantages of a Micro is it's
light weight. Upsizing things adds weight.
For the record, I'd class MDO as "good quality" ply. My last boat was build
entirely out of 2-sided MDO and it was niiiiiccccceeeeeee!
JB
entirely out of 2-sided MDO and it was niiiiiccccceeeeeee!
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] plywood?
> I keep waiting for Peter Lenihan to chime in; I believe Lestat was built
> entirely with 3/8" MDO ply, perhaps doubled up on the bottom, and glass
> sheathed only below the waterline if I'm not mistaken - epoxy sealed and
> painted elsewhere. She was ~10 years old when I sailed on her at
Champlain,
> and her finish was flawless. She felt VERY stout and solid. How's she
> looking these days, Nels?
>
> I was already a big MDO fan, so when it came time to build my Micro I
looked
> for 3/8" MDO but the thinnest my local suppliers could get was 1/2" and I
> did not want to trailer a boat that heavy. Also worried about being able
to
> make the bends with such thick wood. I ended up going with 1/4" fir marine
> for sides and bulkheads, 1/2" bottom, 2 layers of 1/4" laminated to make
the
> curve of the cabintop and 1/2" MDO for the flat decks and transoms. I
> glassed every exterior surface to minimize maintenance. Although I haven't
> sailed her yet, she's plenty stiff with 1/4" sides glassed outside. In his
> letter to me that accompanied my plans, he said something like 'Although
> drawn for 1/4" ply, she will benefit greatly it you use 1/2" or even 3/4"
on
> the bottom'.
> Paul Lefebvre
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: smithriverranger [mailto:jasonstancil@...]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:12 PM
> Subject: [bolger] plywood?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
I keep waiting for Peter Lenihan to chime in; I believe Lestat was built
entirely with 3/8" MDO ply, perhaps doubled up on the bottom, and glass
sheathed only below the waterline if I'm not mistaken - epoxy sealed and
painted elsewhere. She was ~10 years old when I sailed on her at Champlain,
and her finish was flawless. She felt VERY stout and solid. How's she
looking these days, Nels?
I was already a big MDO fan, so when it came time to build my Micro I looked
for 3/8" MDO but the thinnest my local suppliers could get was 1/2" and I
did not want to trailer a boat that heavy. Also worried about being able to
make the bends with such thick wood. I ended up going with 1/4" fir marine
for sides and bulkheads, 1/2" bottom, 2 layers of 1/4" laminated to make the
curve of the cabintop and 1/2" MDO for the flat decks and transoms. I
glassed every exterior surface to minimize maintenance. Although I haven't
sailed her yet, she's plenty stiff with 1/4" sides glassed outside. In his
letter to me that accompanied my plans, he said something like 'Although
drawn for 1/4" ply, she will benefit greatly it you use 1/2" or even 3/4" on
the bottom'.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: smithriverranger [mailto:jasonstancil@...]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: [bolger] plywood?
entirely with 3/8" MDO ply, perhaps doubled up on the bottom, and glass
sheathed only below the waterline if I'm not mistaken - epoxy sealed and
painted elsewhere. She was ~10 years old when I sailed on her at Champlain,
and her finish was flawless. She felt VERY stout and solid. How's she
looking these days, Nels?
I was already a big MDO fan, so when it came time to build my Micro I looked
for 3/8" MDO but the thinnest my local suppliers could get was 1/2" and I
did not want to trailer a boat that heavy. Also worried about being able to
make the bends with such thick wood. I ended up going with 1/4" fir marine
for sides and bulkheads, 1/2" bottom, 2 layers of 1/4" laminated to make the
curve of the cabintop and 1/2" MDO for the flat decks and transoms. I
glassed every exterior surface to minimize maintenance. Although I haven't
sailed her yet, she's plenty stiff with 1/4" sides glassed outside. In his
letter to me that accompanied my plans, he said something like 'Although
drawn for 1/4" ply, she will benefit greatly it you use 1/2" or even 3/4" on
the bottom'.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: smithriverranger [mailto:jasonstancil@...]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: [bolger] plywood?
I happen to like Buehler's approach, but take care: he uses multiple layers
of plywood in many of his designs, which would minimize the effects of voids
and gaps. Bolger leans in the other direction, towards light single-layer
designs.
David
_____
From: Tom Rund [mailto:trund1024@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:12 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
I highly recommend reading Backyard Boatbuilding by George Buehler.
It will make you feel much better about use AC fir instead of marine
grade.
His basic philosophy is: Why save your money until you can buy marine
grade ply later, when you can build with AC fir now and get out
cruising.
Both plywoods use the same glue, right? Voids can be filled and
checks can be glassed...
Tom
of plywood in many of his designs, which would minimize the effects of voids
and gaps. Bolger leans in the other direction, towards light single-layer
designs.
David
_____
From: Tom Rund [mailto:trund1024@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:12 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
I highly recommend reading Backyard Boatbuilding by George Buehler.
It will make you feel much better about use AC fir instead of marine
grade.
His basic philosophy is: Why save your money until you can buy marine
grade ply later, when you can build with AC fir now and get out
cruising.
Both plywoods use the same glue, right? Voids can be filled and
checks can be glassed...
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, grant corson <corson@a...> wrote:
> I am currently building a boat using MDO plywood. The extra
coating on the
> surface should eliminate checking and the plywood seems to have no
voids at
> all. The cost is about 30% less than marine grade.
> Grant
> on 3/23/04 8:30 AM, David Ryan at david@c... wrote:
>
> > My boats are made from fir AC covered with 3 oz glass, raka epoxy
and
> > Benjamin Moore urethane porch paint. The live outdoors, uncoverd,
> > full-time. They do not check. Not a little, not at all, end of
story.
> >
> > The bitch about fir is prepping it for glassing. It might be
> > easier/less expensive to get plywood with a smoother surface.
> >
> > If you're not going to glass, don't use fir. It'll check like a
> > sonofabitch in no time.
> >
> > YIBB,
> >
> > David
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I highly recommend reading Backyard Boatbuilding by George Buehler.
It will make you feel much better about use AC fir instead of marine
grade.
His basic philosophy is: Why save your money until you can buy marine
grade ply later, when you can build with AC fir now and get out
cruising.
Both plywoods use the same glue, right? Voids can be filled and
checks can be glassed...
Tom
It will make you feel much better about use AC fir instead of marine
grade.
His basic philosophy is: Why save your money until you can buy marine
grade ply later, when you can build with AC fir now and get out
cruising.
Both plywoods use the same glue, right? Voids can be filled and
checks can be glassed...
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, grant corson <corson@a...> wrote:
> I am currently building a boat using MDO plywood. The extra
coating on the
> surface should eliminate checking and the plywood seems to have no
voids at
> all. The cost is about 30% less than marine grade.
> Grant
> on 3/23/04 8:30 AM, David Ryan at david@c... wrote:
>
> > My boats are made from fir AC covered with 3 oz glass, raka epoxy
and
> > Benjamin Moore urethane porch paint. The live outdoors, uncoverd,
> > full-time. They do not check. Not a little, not at all, end of
story.
> >
> > The bitch about fir is prepping it for glassing. It might be
> > easier/less expensive to get plywood with a smoother surface.
> >
> > If you're not going to glass, don't use fir. It'll check like a
> > sonofabitch in no time.
> >
> > YIBB,
> >
> > David
David,
The simple difference between BC ply and marine is this: in the thicknesses
you are looking at (1/4", 3/8"), BC ply usually consists of ONE thick core
ply covered by two thin veneer plys. This means that any voids or gaps in
the center ply are critical. I appreciate your argument about cost, but
haven't found decent BCX in those sizes in many years. Doesn't matter what
you coat it with if you've got Swiss cheese as your primary core. BCX
wouldn't be a concern if you're knocking out a rowboat or small daysailer,
but it sure as little fishes DOES matter when you're building a keelboat
(more stresses, you see).
I suggest you explore double-faced MDO as an alternative. It's more costly
than BCX, but significantly less than top-line 'marine' grade plywoods.
Nice to work with, too. If your lumber yard doesn't stock it, call a local
outdoor sign shop or two.
David Romasco
_____
From: David Davis [mailto:sharpie3444@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:42 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
I didn't fully consider the size of the boats when I made the
plywood comment, but they are heavy lead keel boats.
I don't want to make BC pine into marine ply and don't expect a
factory mold finish. The point is a lot of folks past 62 have more
time than money and only expect a 10 - 15 year life out of the boat
without major repairs. Some of us may need major repair before the
boat does.
As we get older full setting headroom and full 7 foot berths are a
delight. These are hard to come by in boats of less than 22 feet and
these boats take a lot of plywood. For many of us they are
afordable at BC pine prices and not at good marine ply prices. As
with everything else there are good BC ply sheets and bad, but the
same is true with marine ply. Sheet selection is the key.
Everything has exceptions. With a 3 or 4 sheet boat it hardly
matters what the plywood cost. With a 20 to 30 sheet boat most of
us have to think about total cost. Very few plywood boats have a
resale value to even pay for any type plywood no matter what the
finish.
I know!! Different ships, different long splices. Just enjoy the
boats.
David
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The simple difference between BC ply and marine is this: in the thicknesses
you are looking at (1/4", 3/8"), BC ply usually consists of ONE thick core
ply covered by two thin veneer plys. This means that any voids or gaps in
the center ply are critical. I appreciate your argument about cost, but
haven't found decent BCX in those sizes in many years. Doesn't matter what
you coat it with if you've got Swiss cheese as your primary core. BCX
wouldn't be a concern if you're knocking out a rowboat or small daysailer,
but it sure as little fishes DOES matter when you're building a keelboat
(more stresses, you see).
I suggest you explore double-faced MDO as an alternative. It's more costly
than BCX, but significantly less than top-line 'marine' grade plywoods.
Nice to work with, too. If your lumber yard doesn't stock it, call a local
outdoor sign shop or two.
David Romasco
_____
From: David Davis [mailto:sharpie3444@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:42 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
> Just so you get both opinions:once the
>
> Spend the money for good plywood. You won't regret the extra money
> boat is built. I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: If youwant to
> go boating cheaply, buy used. The only reason to build is becauseyou want
> to build. And even building with junky materials, it's going tocost a lot
> more than you think. Building with good materials is so mucheasier and the
> finished product so much better, you won't even think about theslightly
> higher costs when you're done.had lots
>
> It took me building three boats to realize this simple fact. And I
> of people like me telling me the same things about costs andquality, but I
> would not believe them until I'd been there myself. I believe themnow.
>John,
> My $0.02 worth.
>
> JB
>
I didn't fully consider the size of the boats when I made the
plywood comment, but they are heavy lead keel boats.
I don't want to make BC pine into marine ply and don't expect a
factory mold finish. The point is a lot of folks past 62 have more
time than money and only expect a 10 - 15 year life out of the boat
without major repairs. Some of us may need major repair before the
boat does.
As we get older full setting headroom and full 7 foot berths are a
delight. These are hard to come by in boats of less than 22 feet and
these boats take a lot of plywood. For many of us they are
afordable at BC pine prices and not at good marine ply prices. As
with everything else there are good BC ply sheets and bad, but the
same is true with marine ply. Sheet selection is the key.
Everything has exceptions. With a 3 or 4 sheet boat it hardly
matters what the plywood cost. With a 20 to 30 sheet boat most of
us have to think about total cost. Very few plywood boats have a
resale value to even pay for any type plywood no matter what the
finish.
I know!! Different ships, different long splices. Just enjoy the
boats.
David
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
I didn't fully consider the size of the boats when I made the
plywood comment, but they are heavy lead keel boats.
I don't want to make BC pine into marine ply and don't expect a
factory mold finish. The point is a lot of folks past 62 have more
time than money and only expect a 10 - 15 year life out of the boat
without major repairs. Some of us may need major repair before the
boat does.
As we get older full setting headroom and full 7 foot berths are a
delight. These are hard to come by in boats of less than 22 feet and
these boats take a lot of plywood. For many of us they are
afordable at BC pine prices and not at good marine ply prices. As
with everything else there are good BC ply sheets and bad, but the
same is true with marine ply. Sheet selection is the key.
If the plywood is to be covered with fiberglass on the outside and
some method of keeping the rain water out of the boat is found, what
is the great advantage of marine ply?? Without the fiberglass
covering the marine ply with no voids would be better, but since
most plywood has to be fiberglassed to prevent checking anyway, why
bother with the marine plywood?? A BC pine 3/8 plywood sheet would
be stronger/ stiffer etc. than an 1/4 marine grade ply and yield a
stronger boat at a third of the price. The only possible advantage
marine ply might have would be on an unglassed boat kept in the
water all the time and an easier job of finishing / painting to a
plastic boat finish. On a lot of sailboats the extra weight,
especially down low would be an advantage instead of a problem. An
one inch bottom has to have some advantages over an 1/2 inch one.
Everything has exceptions. With a 3 or 4 sheet boat it hardly
matters what the plywood cost. With a 20 to 30 sheet boat most of
us have to think about total cost. Very few plywood boats have a
resale value to even pay for any type plywood no matter what the
finish.
I know!! Different ships, different long splices. Just enjoy the
boats.
David
wrote:
> Just so you get both opinions:once the
>
> Spend the money for good plywood. You won't regret the extra money
> boat is built. I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: If youwant to
> go boating cheaply, buy used. The only reason to build is becauseyou want
> to build. And even building with junky materials, it's going tocost a lot
> more than you think. Building with good materials is so mucheasier and the
> finished product so much better, you won't even think about theslightly
> higher costs when you're done.had lots
>
> It took me building three boats to realize this simple fact. And I
> of people like me telling me the same things about costs andquality, but I
> would not believe them until I'd been there myself. I believe themnow.
>John,
> My $0.02 worth.
>
> JB
>
I didn't fully consider the size of the boats when I made the
plywood comment, but they are heavy lead keel boats.
I don't want to make BC pine into marine ply and don't expect a
factory mold finish. The point is a lot of folks past 62 have more
time than money and only expect a 10 - 15 year life out of the boat
without major repairs. Some of us may need major repair before the
boat does.
As we get older full setting headroom and full 7 foot berths are a
delight. These are hard to come by in boats of less than 22 feet and
these boats take a lot of plywood. For many of us they are
afordable at BC pine prices and not at good marine ply prices. As
with everything else there are good BC ply sheets and bad, but the
same is true with marine ply. Sheet selection is the key.
If the plywood is to be covered with fiberglass on the outside and
some method of keeping the rain water out of the boat is found, what
is the great advantage of marine ply?? Without the fiberglass
covering the marine ply with no voids would be better, but since
most plywood has to be fiberglassed to prevent checking anyway, why
bother with the marine plywood?? A BC pine 3/8 plywood sheet would
be stronger/ stiffer etc. than an 1/4 marine grade ply and yield a
stronger boat at a third of the price. The only possible advantage
marine ply might have would be on an unglassed boat kept in the
water all the time and an easier job of finishing / painting to a
plastic boat finish. On a lot of sailboats the extra weight,
especially down low would be an advantage instead of a problem. An
one inch bottom has to have some advantages over an 1/2 inch one.
Everything has exceptions. With a 3 or 4 sheet boat it hardly
matters what the plywood cost. With a 20 to 30 sheet boat most of
us have to think about total cost. Very few plywood boats have a
resale value to even pay for any type plywood no matter what the
finish.
I know!! Different ships, different long splices. Just enjoy the
boats.
David
----- Original Message -----
>
> | --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
> | <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> | > I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered
the
> | > dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from
raka
I am currently building a boat using MDO plywood. The extra coating on the
surface should eliminate checking and the plywood seems to have no voids at
all. The cost is about 30% less than marine grade.
Grant
on 3/23/04 8:30 AM, David Ryan atdavid@...wrote:
surface should eliminate checking and the plywood seems to have no voids at
all. The cost is about 30% less than marine grade.
Grant
on 3/23/04 8:30 AM, David Ryan atdavid@...wrote:
> My boats are made from fir AC covered with 3 oz glass, raka epoxy and
> Benjamin Moore urethane porch paint. The live outdoors, uncoverd,
> full-time. They do not check. Not a little, not at all, end of story.
>
> The bitch about fir is prepping it for glassing. It might be
> easier/less expensive to get plywood with a smoother surface.
>
> If you're not going to glass, don't use fir. It'll check like a
> sonofabitch in no time.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
My boats are made from fir AC covered with 3 oz glass, raka epoxy and
Benjamin Moore urethane porch paint. The live outdoors, uncoverd,
full-time. They do not check. Not a little, not at all, end of story.
The bitch about fir is prepping it for glassing. It might be
easier/less expensive to get plywood with a smoother surface.
If you're not going to glass, don't use fir. It'll check like a
sonofabitch in no time.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Benjamin Moore urethane porch paint. The live outdoors, uncoverd,
full-time. They do not check. Not a little, not at all, end of story.
The bitch about fir is prepping it for glassing. It might be
easier/less expensive to get plywood with a smoother surface.
If you're not going to glass, don't use fir. It'll check like a
sonofabitch in no time.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Quarter inch for the topsides is fine, IMO. I'd go with three eighths on the
bottom and decks, and maybe even half inch in the way of the cockpit.
Quarter inch is simply too light for decks.
bottom and decks, and maybe even half inch in the way of the cockpit.
Quarter inch is simply too light for decks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:42 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood? flexing?
> Now you guys opened another can of worms......is 3/8" considered the
> norm for a solid micro......is the 1/4" specified insufficient? I've
> built two bolger boats to date and they both flexed quite a bit.
> However, i've never glassed or used epoxy except on the
> chines....will epoxy thoughout and glass on the hull stop some of
> the flexing?
> Thanks,
> Jason Stancil
>
>
Well obviously some of the flexing. The rule of thumb is glass is
equal to wood, so a layer of glass might turn 6mm ply into 7mm, which
is nearly 60% stiffer. His decks are often too light, but 1/4 inch
isn't too little with enough bulkheads, they build boats up to 40
feet and 10000 lbs using 1/4 inch.
Did you say you were considering Tanbark sails? You can afford the
better ply!
Don't be excessively tempted to just add weight. Stay as close as
possible to the original plans. By the way bronze nails are for
under water service, if you are sheathing that's expensive overkill.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
equal to wood, so a layer of glass might turn 6mm ply into 7mm, which
is nearly 60% stiffer. His decks are often too light, but 1/4 inch
isn't too little with enough bulkheads, they build boats up to 40
feet and 10000 lbs using 1/4 inch.
Did you say you were considering Tanbark sails? You can afford the
better ply!
Don't be excessively tempted to just add weight. Stay as close as
possible to the original plans. By the way bronze nails are for
under water service, if you are sheathing that's expensive overkill.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> Now you guys opened another can of worms......is 3/8" consideredthe
> norm for a solid micro......is the 1/4" specified insufficient?I've
> built two bolger boats to date and they both flexed quite a bit.
> However, i've never glassed or used epoxy except on the
> chines....will epoxy thoughout and glass on the hull stop some of
> the flexing?
> Thanks,
> Jason Stancil
Goodish D Fir is fine, it needs to be totaly sheathed, it's fab for
bulkheads. If it has evident unfilled voids, it's not a reasonable
grade for boat work. Remeber that marine grade is a grade
established for boats that won't be sheathed, yet almost all boats
benefit from sheathing.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
bulkheads. If it has evident unfilled voids, it's not a reasonable
grade for boat work. Remeber that marine grade is a grade
established for boats that won't be sheathed, yet almost all boats
benefit from sheathing.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered theit
> dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
> this afternoon. Have the silicon bronze ring nails and screws in my
> hand. Got a quote i can agree with for tanbark sails with 3 reefs
> for either of the boats. Just can't decide if i want to go with
> marine okume or luberyard stuff(fir or pine crap). I have this fear
> of severe checking even though i'm not real sure i even know what
> is. I have'nt had any of the other boats i've build more than ayear
> so i don't know what happened to them when they moved on. Is itand
> feasible to use lesser quality where they are no curves i.e.
> bulkheads. I plan to coat everything with epoxy, tape the chines
> keel and cover the bottom with dynel so i'm not so worried aboutmuch
> water getting in just how it will look/hold together in 5 years.
> This is a big project for me and i'm not in too big a hurry, but
> ordering 900 dollars worth of bs1088 okume plywood is almost to
> to stomach, i'm not rich just have quite a bit of free time! After
> putting this much time into a boat i want it to last.....help
> Jason Stancil
> PS i'm planing on 1/4" all around with two layers of 1/4" on the
> bottom
Now you guys opened another can of worms......is 3/8" considered the
norm for a solid micro......is the 1/4" specified insufficient? I've
built two bolger boats to date and they both flexed quite a bit.
However, i've never glassed or used epoxy except on the
chines....will epoxy thoughout and glass on the hull stop some of
the flexing?
Thanks,
Jason Stancil
norm for a solid micro......is the 1/4" specified insufficient? I've
built two bolger boats to date and they both flexed quite a bit.
However, i've never glassed or used epoxy except on the
chines....will epoxy thoughout and glass on the hull stop some of
the flexing?
Thanks,
Jason Stancil
I agree with you.
It always amazes me, how much time and money some people spend on
junk ply, trying to turn it into marine ply.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
It always amazes me, how much time and money some people spend on
junk ply, trying to turn it into marine ply.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
> Just so you get both opinions:once the
>
> Spend the money for good plywood. You won't regret the extra money
> boat is built. I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: If youwant to
> go boating cheaply, buy used. The only reason to build is becauseyou want
> to build. And even building with junky materials, it's going tocost a lot
> more than you think. Building with good materials is so much easierand the
> finished product so much better, you won't even think about theslightly
> higher costs when you're done.had lots
>
> It took me building three boats to realize this simple fact. And I
> of people like me telling me the same things about costs andquality, but I
> would not believe them until I'd been there myself. I believe themnow.
>
> My $0.02 worth.
>
> JB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> | --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
> | <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> | > I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered the
> | > dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
Just so you get both opinions:
Spend the money for good plywood. You won't regret the extra money once the
boat is built. I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: If you want to
go boating cheaply, buy used. The only reason to build is because you want
to build. And even building with junky materials, it's going to cost a lot
more than you think. Building with good materials is so much easier and the
finished product so much better, you won't even think about the slightly
higher costs when you're done.
It took me building three boats to realize this simple fact. And I had lots
of people like me telling me the same things about costs and quality, but I
would not believe them until I'd been there myself. I believe them now.
My $0.02 worth.
JB
Spend the money for good plywood. You won't regret the extra money once the
boat is built. I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: If you want to
go boating cheaply, buy used. The only reason to build is because you want
to build. And even building with junky materials, it's going to cost a lot
more than you think. Building with good materials is so much easier and the
finished product so much better, you won't even think about the slightly
higher costs when you're done.
It took me building three boats to realize this simple fact. And I had lots
of people like me telling me the same things about costs and quality, but I
would not believe them until I'd been there myself. I believe them now.
My $0.02 worth.
JB
----- Original Message -----
| --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
| <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
| > I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered the
| > dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
<jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
bottom will make a boat.You just have to spend some extra time on
filling imperfections with epoxy putty.
Nearly all ply will check if left out in the sun long enough. 4 oz.
fiberglass set in epoxy, a extra coat of thickened epoxy to fill the
weave with two coats primer and two coats of top coat will prevent
checking and if sanded between coats give a fair or better finish,
depending on surface preperations. 6 oz. or heavier cloth on the
bottom. Inside seams to be taped with two layers of fiberglass and
painted. All paint could be 100% latex house paint, just sand the
glass a little before the first coat of primer.
The care of the boat, inside storage, well ventilated, fresh water
washdown, etc will determine the life of a boat more than the type
of plywood. Even a cheap tarp and selfdraining decks make a lot of
difference. Most boats rot from having rainwater in the bilge!!!!
David
<jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered themy
> dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
> this afternoon. Have the silicon bronze ring nails and screws in
> hand. Got a quote i can agree with for tanbark sails with 3 reefsfear
> for either of the boats. Just can't decide if i want to go with
> marine okume or luberyard stuff(fir or pine crap). I have this
> of severe checking even though i'm not real sure i even know whatit
> is. I have'nt had any of the other boats i've build more than ayear
> so i don't know what happened to them when they moved on. Is itand
> feasible to use lesser quality where they are no curves i.e.
> bulkheads. I plan to coat everything with epoxy, tape the chines
> keel and cover the bottom with dynel so i'm not so worried aboutmuch
> water getting in just how it will look/hold together in 5 years.
> This is a big project for me and i'm not in too big a hurry, but
> ordering 900 dollars worth of bs1088 okume plywood is almost to
> to stomach, i'm not rich just have quite a bit of free time! After3/8 inch all around and two layers of 1/2 inch pine junk on the
> putting this much time into a boat i want it to last.....help
> Jason Stancil
> PS i'm planing on 1/4" all around with two layers of 1/4" on the
> bottom
bottom will make a boat.You just have to spend some extra time on
filling imperfections with epoxy putty.
Nearly all ply will check if left out in the sun long enough. 4 oz.
fiberglass set in epoxy, a extra coat of thickened epoxy to fill the
weave with two coats primer and two coats of top coat will prevent
checking and if sanded between coats give a fair or better finish,
depending on surface preperations. 6 oz. or heavier cloth on the
bottom. Inside seams to be taped with two layers of fiberglass and
painted. All paint could be 100% latex house paint, just sand the
glass a little before the first coat of primer.
The care of the boat, inside storage, well ventilated, fresh water
washdown, etc will determine the life of a boat more than the type
of plywood. Even a cheap tarp and selfdraining decks make a lot of
difference. Most boats rot from having rainwater in the bilge!!!!
David
I've got my oldshoe and micro plans (can't decide!). Ordered the
dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
this afternoon. Have the silicon bronze ring nails and screws in my
hand. Got a quote i can agree with for tanbark sails with 3 reefs
for either of the boats. Just can't decide if i want to go with
marine okume or luberyard stuff(fir or pine crap). I have this fear
of severe checking even though i'm not real sure i even know what it
is. I have'nt had any of the other boats i've build more than a year
so i don't know what happened to them when they moved on. Is it
feasible to use lesser quality where they are no curves i.e.
bulkheads. I plan to coat everything with epoxy, tape the chines and
keel and cover the bottom with dynel so i'm not so worried about
water getting in just how it will look/hold together in 5 years.
This is a big project for me and i'm not in too big a hurry, but
ordering 900 dollars worth of bs1088 okume plywood is almost to much
to stomach, i'm not rich just have quite a bit of free time! After
putting this much time into a boat i want it to last.....help
Jason Stancil
PS i'm planing on 1/4" all around with two layers of 1/4" on the
bottom
dynel, fibreglass tape, epoxy and some fillers/fairers from raka
this afternoon. Have the silicon bronze ring nails and screws in my
hand. Got a quote i can agree with for tanbark sails with 3 reefs
for either of the boats. Just can't decide if i want to go with
marine okume or luberyard stuff(fir or pine crap). I have this fear
of severe checking even though i'm not real sure i even know what it
is. I have'nt had any of the other boats i've build more than a year
so i don't know what happened to them when they moved on. Is it
feasible to use lesser quality where they are no curves i.e.
bulkheads. I plan to coat everything with epoxy, tape the chines and
keel and cover the bottom with dynel so i'm not so worried about
water getting in just how it will look/hold together in 5 years.
This is a big project for me and i'm not in too big a hurry, but
ordering 900 dollars worth of bs1088 okume plywood is almost to much
to stomach, i'm not rich just have quite a bit of free time! After
putting this much time into a boat i want it to last.....help
Jason Stancil
PS i'm planing on 1/4" all around with two layers of 1/4" on the
bottom