Re: Coppering boat bottoms
You can buy copper powder from Douglas and Sturgess art supply at
artstuf.com . It can be mixed with epoxy for what I'm told makes a
very good antifouling coat. I doubt it is as good as tin but certainly
better for the environment.
FWIW, the above URL is a good source for all manner of interesting
stuff and their prices reflect the income that artists are accustomed
to.
Doug
artstuf.com . It can be mixed with epoxy for what I'm told makes a
very good antifouling coat. I doubt it is as good as tin but certainly
better for the environment.
FWIW, the above URL is a good source for all manner of interesting
stuff and their prices reflect the income that artists are accustomed
to.
Doug
I've spoke with the guy who coppered one here in the pacific NW.
Bought the material from a sheet metal shop - long roll of it, they
make gutters from it for rich folks' homes - cut it to manageable
sheets (about 1' x 2') and formed it to the hull by bending and
hammering each sheet (it was a carvel hull). Its set in roofing tar,
nailed with small copper nails. That was over 20 years ago, and it
still looks pretty good. Just scrubs it annually, and it comes
clean. Said it wasn't that hard to do, and has paid for itself over
the years. I'll bet its tough to get that old stuff off when you
want to re-do!
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Spoering" <spoering@e...> wrote:
mooring is an open invitation to wind up with a sea weed and oyster
factory growing on the bottom even when using top of the line anti-
fouling like "Trinidad".
experience with this - how thick - where did you purchase the
material - what was it bedded in - does it get coated with
anything ?????
works out of the antifouling paints.
Bought the material from a sheet metal shop - long roll of it, they
make gutters from it for rich folks' homes - cut it to manageable
sheets (about 1' x 2') and formed it to the hull by bending and
hammering each sheet (it was a carvel hull). Its set in roofing tar,
nailed with small copper nails. That was over 20 years ago, and it
still looks pretty good. Just scrubs it annually, and it comes
clean. Said it wasn't that hard to do, and has paid for itself over
the years. I'll bet its tough to get that old stuff off when you
want to re-do!
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Spoering" <spoering@e...> wrote:
> Hi All -additional information......Here in south Florida leaving a boat on a
>
> Since the subject has been broached I'd like to get some
mooring is an open invitation to wind up with a sea weed and oyster
factory growing on the bottom even when using top of the line anti-
fouling like "Trinidad".
>did you use & how did you apply it ?
> Has anyone had any experience coppering the bottom - what
>epoxy or added to your anti fouling ?
> How about powered copper (where can you get it) set in
>putting actual sheet copper on the bottom, does anyone have any
> When building "Champlain" I'd really be interested in
experience with this - how thick - where did you purchase the
material - what was it bedded in - does it get coated with
anything ?????
>especially since the government has regulated all the stuff that
> If this is affordable it would be an interesting concept
works out of the antifouling paints.
>Aloha -Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, obviously the copper sheeting my brother and his wife applied
was to inhibit growth, which is a problem in Southeast Alaska. The
fact that the plating adds to the protection of their hull is a bonus,
especially since they don't use epoxy. Having inspected damage after
friends have hit rocks in epoxy over plywood hulls, a few of us could
wish for copper plates over ours, believe me! I suppose if they'd been
looking for real protection, though, against rocks or ice, they would
have used steel.
Cheers!
M.Z.
was to inhibit growth, which is a problem in Southeast Alaska. The
fact that the plating adds to the protection of their hull is a bonus,
especially since they don't use epoxy. Having inspected damage after
friends have hit rocks in epoxy over plywood hulls, a few of us could
wish for copper plates over ours, believe me! I suppose if they'd been
looking for real protection, though, against rocks or ice, they would
have used steel.
Cheers!
M.Z.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Okke Ornstein <okke@o...> wrote:
> I once owned a fishing ship of about 60 feet, planked oak on oak, 60
> tonnes, and it was copper sheated on the waterline. When I took the
> heavy plates off, the wood behind it was in perfect shape, better than
> the wood below the waterline. The plates were mounted, as I was told,
> to guard against ice. They weren't sealed or bedded in anything, but
> fit with many copper nails.
>
> So, for a planked hull I think this is a good idea. Plywood with epoxy
> doesn't need copper sheeting, unless you're in an ice area where it may
> be a good idea.
>
> Okke Ornstein
> ==================
> Tel: (+)507-614-9840
> Fax: (+)1 413 702-4725
>http://www.ornstein.org
> ==================
> On Apr 3, 2004, at 9:51 AM, alaskamaz wrote:
>
> > Greetings, Bolgeristas,
> >
> > My brother and his wife, Dave Zeiger and Anke Wagner, coppered the
> > hull of their LUNA. They did it on the weighs between tides. I don't
> > remember the details, but if anyone's interested, I can ask him about
> > it and report back to the group.
> >
> > What I do remember is that it was expensive, but not so expensive that
> > they couldn't buy more than enough to cover their hull (a 31 foot AS
> > 29 style) and still afford to have it shipped to Tenakee Springs,
> > Alaska--not your bustling shipping port by any means. I believe they
> > bedded it over roofing tar, or roofing paper. They may have riveted it
> > on with coppper rivets. I think they used 1/8" sheets on the bottom,
> > and something less from the hull edge to the water line. One thing I
> > particularly admired was the molding or angle iron (don't know what
> > it's called when it's made of copper)that they edged the chines with.
> > That makes it particularly tough when cruising.
> >
> > Applying it between tides as they did just about killed them--they
> > wish they'd thought to do that when they were first building her, and
> > could do it upside down.
> >
> > I have used Copperpoxy with great success on my Martha Jane, SELKIE.
> > It makes a good, hard coating, it looks beautiful, and it keeps the
> > growth off. The company is full of good people--they made me a custom
> > amount once when I needed to touch up!
> >
> > One word of advice, though, BELIEVE the instructions! The idea of a
> > foam roller coated with PAM was too much for me, so I just brushed it
> > on. Later, I visited Fritz Koschmann in Gustavus, who's building the
> > Double Eagle, and I got to inspect his Copperpoxy hulls, aplied as
> > suggested. What an amazing difference! I'm still kicking myself.
> >
> > I get a little barnacle growth each summer, I think because I didn't
> > sand the touch up, so the copper may not be fully exposed. Most of
> > them are barely adhered--we can brush them off with a regular deck
> > brush while floating alongside in the skiff.
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> >
> > Mark Zeiger
> > Juneau, Alaska
> >
> > Martha Jane, SELKIE
> > Teal, FORGET-ME-NOT
> > Junebug, ROAN
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> > Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
I once owned a fishing ship of about 60 feet, planked oak on oak, 60
tonnes, and it was copper sheated on the waterline. When I took the
heavy plates off, the wood behind it was in perfect shape, better than
the wood below the waterline. The plates were mounted, as I was told,
to guard against ice. They weren't sealed or bedded in anything, but
fit with many copper nails.
So, for a planked hull I think this is a good idea. Plywood with epoxy
doesn't need copper sheeting, unless you're in an ice area where it may
be a good idea.
Okke Ornstein
==================
Tel: (+)507-614-9840
Fax: (+)1 413 702-4725
http://www.ornstein.org
==================
tonnes, and it was copper sheated on the waterline. When I took the
heavy plates off, the wood behind it was in perfect shape, better than
the wood below the waterline. The plates were mounted, as I was told,
to guard against ice. They weren't sealed or bedded in anything, but
fit with many copper nails.
So, for a planked hull I think this is a good idea. Plywood with epoxy
doesn't need copper sheeting, unless you're in an ice area where it may
be a good idea.
Okke Ornstein
==================
Tel: (+)507-614-9840
Fax: (+)1 413 702-4725
http://www.ornstein.org
==================
On Apr 3, 2004, at 9:51 AM, alaskamaz wrote:
> Greetings, Bolgeristas,
>
> My brother and his wife, Dave Zeiger and Anke Wagner, coppered the
> hull of their LUNA. They did it on the weighs between tides. I don't
> remember the details, but if anyone's interested, I can ask him about
> it and report back to the group.
>
> What I do remember is that it was expensive, but not so expensive that
> they couldn't buy more than enough to cover their hull (a 31 foot AS
> 29 style) and still afford to have it shipped to Tenakee Springs,
> Alaska--not your bustling shipping port by any means. I believe they
> bedded it over roofing tar, or roofing paper. They may have riveted it
> on with coppper rivets. I think they used 1/8" sheets on the bottom,
> and something less from the hull edge to the water line. One thing I
> particularly admired was the molding or angle iron (don't know what
> it's called when it's made of copper)that they edged the chines with.
> That makes it particularly tough when cruising.
>
> Applying it between tides as they did just about killed them--they
> wish they'd thought to do that when they were first building her, and
> could do it upside down.
>
> I have used Copperpoxy with great success on my Martha Jane, SELKIE.
> It makes a good, hard coating, it looks beautiful, and it keeps the
> growth off. The company is full of good people--they made me a custom
> amount once when I needed to touch up!
>
> One word of advice, though, BELIEVE the instructions! The idea of a
> foam roller coated with PAM was too much for me, so I just brushed it
> on. Later, I visited Fritz Koschmann in Gustavus, who's building the
> Double Eagle, and I got to inspect his Copperpoxy hulls, aplied as
> suggested. What an amazing difference! I'm still kicking myself.
>
> I get a little barnacle growth each summer, I think because I didn't
> sand the touch up, so the copper may not be fully exposed. Most of
> them are barely adhered--we can brush them off with a regular deck
> brush while floating alongside in the skiff.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Mark Zeiger
> Juneau, Alaska
>
> Martha Jane, SELKIE
> Teal, FORGET-ME-NOT
> Junebug, ROAN
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Hi Peter -
Thanks for the great Progressive Polymore website. I think it's a site that everyone should add to their Favorites. It really looks like the way to go.
Thanks again - Aloha - Jack
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the great Progressive Polymore website. I think it's a site that everyone should add to their Favorites. It really looks like the way to go.
Thanks again - Aloha - Jack
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Peter -
Right now the lack of being able to find good Canadian beer is holding up the project. But I'm really searching..........
Aloha - Jack
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Right now the lack of being able to find good Canadian beer is holding up the project. But I'm really searching..........
Aloha - Jack
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Greetings, Bolgeristas,
My brother and his wife, Dave Zeiger and Anke Wagner, coppered the
hull of their LUNA. They did it on the weighs between tides. I don't
remember the details, but if anyone's interested, I can ask him about
it and report back to the group.
What I do remember is that it was expensive, but not so expensive that
they couldn't buy more than enough to cover their hull (a 31 foot AS
29 style) and still afford to have it shipped to Tenakee Springs,
Alaska--not your bustling shipping port by any means. I believe they
bedded it over roofing tar, or roofing paper. They may have riveted it
on with coppper rivets. I think they used 1/8" sheets on the bottom,
and something less from the hull edge to the water line. One thing I
particularly admired was the molding or angle iron (don't know what
it's called when it's made of copper)that they edged the chines with.
That makes it particularly tough when cruising.
Applying it between tides as they did just about killed them--they
wish they'd thought to do that when they were first building her, and
could do it upside down.
I have used Copperpoxy with great success on my Martha Jane, SELKIE.
It makes a good, hard coating, it looks beautiful, and it keeps the
growth off. The company is full of good people--they made me a custom
amount once when I needed to touch up!
One word of advice, though, BELIEVE the instructions! The idea of a
foam roller coated with PAM was too much for me, so I just brushed it
on. Later, I visited Fritz Koschmann in Gustavus, who's building the
Double Eagle, and I got to inspect his Copperpoxy hulls, aplied as
suggested. What an amazing difference! I'm still kicking myself.
I get a little barnacle growth each summer, I think because I didn't
sand the touch up, so the copper may not be fully exposed. Most of
them are barely adhered--we can brush them off with a regular deck
brush while floating alongside in the skiff.
Hope this helps!
Mark Zeiger
Juneau, Alaska
Martha Jane, SELKIE
Teal, FORGET-ME-NOT
Junebug, ROAN
My brother and his wife, Dave Zeiger and Anke Wagner, coppered the
hull of their LUNA. They did it on the weighs between tides. I don't
remember the details, but if anyone's interested, I can ask him about
it and report back to the group.
What I do remember is that it was expensive, but not so expensive that
they couldn't buy more than enough to cover their hull (a 31 foot AS
29 style) and still afford to have it shipped to Tenakee Springs,
Alaska--not your bustling shipping port by any means. I believe they
bedded it over roofing tar, or roofing paper. They may have riveted it
on with coppper rivets. I think they used 1/8" sheets on the bottom,
and something less from the hull edge to the water line. One thing I
particularly admired was the molding or angle iron (don't know what
it's called when it's made of copper)that they edged the chines with.
That makes it particularly tough when cruising.
Applying it between tides as they did just about killed them--they
wish they'd thought to do that when they were first building her, and
could do it upside down.
I have used Copperpoxy with great success on my Martha Jane, SELKIE.
It makes a good, hard coating, it looks beautiful, and it keeps the
growth off. The company is full of good people--they made me a custom
amount once when I needed to touch up!
One word of advice, though, BELIEVE the instructions! The idea of a
foam roller coated with PAM was too much for me, so I just brushed it
on. Later, I visited Fritz Koschmann in Gustavus, who's building the
Double Eagle, and I got to inspect his Copperpoxy hulls, aplied as
suggested. What an amazing difference! I'm still kicking myself.
I get a little barnacle growth each summer, I think because I didn't
sand the touch up, so the copper may not be fully exposed. Most of
them are barely adhered--we can brush them off with a regular deck
brush while floating alongside in the skiff.
Hope this helps!
Mark Zeiger
Juneau, Alaska
Martha Jane, SELKIE
Teal, FORGET-ME-NOT
Junebug, ROAN
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
John,
O.K.,so I had a little time on my hands,so I did the Google
thing,so I copied it,so I have pasted the link here;
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
Happy reading:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> I believe that a company called Progressive Polymers in theyou.
> States sells powdered copper or copper flakes which can be added to
> your epoxy.I don't have a link for you but if you Google it,they do
> have a nice web page which explains how this system may work for
John,
O.K.,so I had a little time on my hands,so I did the Google
thing,so I copied it,so I have pasted the link here;
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
Happy reading:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Spoering" <spoering@e...> wrote:
experience with this - how thick - where did you purchase the
material - what was it bedded in - does it get coated with
anything ?????
Hi Jack,
With a plywood hull,all sealed with epoxy,covered in
fiberglass and having no through-hulls and only 1/2" thick,I'd be
rather relunctant to then procceed with creating hundreds of little
punctures(from the nails) into my otherwise perfect surface. Anything
you can add to a paint system(as mentioned by Chef Le Bruce) like
pepper,spices,garlic etc....will be far easier to maintain and
cheaper without effecting the integrity of your hull.
I believe that a company called Progressive Polymers in the
States sells powdered copper or copper flakes which can be added to
your epoxy.I don't have a link for you but if you Google it,they do
have a nice web page which explains how this system may work for you.
As nice as a copper sheet cladding may be,I would still be
worried about all sorts of pollution resistant critters which have
evolved to the point where they might thrive in between the cladding
and your hull.
If only there was a way to raise edible marine life on our
hulls bottoms,we could begin a cottage industry of sorts and off-set
the costs of construction :-)
Now,get building.......weather is no excuse in the Sunshine
State,only the lack of COLD BEER is allowed :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> How about powered copper (where can you get it) set inepoxy or added to your anti fouling ?
>putting actual sheet copper on the bottom, does anyone have any
> When building "Champlain" I'd really be interested in
experience with this - how thick - where did you purchase the
material - what was it bedded in - does it get coated with
anything ?????
Hi Jack,
With a plywood hull,all sealed with epoxy,covered in
fiberglass and having no through-hulls and only 1/2" thick,I'd be
rather relunctant to then procceed with creating hundreds of little
punctures(from the nails) into my otherwise perfect surface. Anything
you can add to a paint system(as mentioned by Chef Le Bruce) like
pepper,spices,garlic etc....will be far easier to maintain and
cheaper without effecting the integrity of your hull.
I believe that a company called Progressive Polymers in the
States sells powdered copper or copper flakes which can be added to
your epoxy.I don't have a link for you but if you Google it,they do
have a nice web page which explains how this system may work for you.
As nice as a copper sheet cladding may be,I would still be
worried about all sorts of pollution resistant critters which have
evolved to the point where they might thrive in between the cladding
and your hull.
If only there was a way to raise edible marine life on our
hulls bottoms,we could begin a cottage industry of sorts and off-set
the costs of construction :-)
Now,get building.......weather is no excuse in the Sunshine
State,only the lack of COLD BEER is allowed :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Hi Bruce -
Thanks for the prompt answere re: coppering boat bottoms. Yes, I've heard of adding cyanne pepper along with a whole lot of other stuff. The best bottom paint I ever used was on a 35 year old Nova Scotia built ocean racer I had for a while when living next to Long Island Sound. The anti-fouling wasGlochester (Lordy, I can't spell at 3AM) It cost about $10.00 gallon and lasted perfectly all season - summer and winter. I don't know what was in it but all the commercial fishermen used it. The cold water may have helped and in the 50's we didn't have all the polution we have now. Good stuff - I hope their still in business,
If you put sheet copper on your boats butt how thick should the material be ?
Aloha - Jack -Ft Lauderdale, Fl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the prompt answere re: coppering boat bottoms. Yes, I've heard of adding cyanne pepper along with a whole lot of other stuff. The best bottom paint I ever used was on a 35 year old Nova Scotia built ocean racer I had for a while when living next to Long Island Sound. The anti-fouling wasGlochester (Lordy, I can't spell at 3AM) It cost about $10.00 gallon and lasted perfectly all season - summer and winter. I don't know what was in it but all the commercial fishermen used it. The cold water may have helped and in the 50's we didn't have all the polution we have now. Good stuff - I hope their still in business,
If you put sheet copper on your boats butt how thick should the material be ?
Aloha - Jack -Ft Lauderdale, Fl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> As I understand it, copper sheet was screwed to the bottom withFrom my understanding, copper sheeting is installed over a good coating of
> copper screws, to prevent galvanic corrosion. There would be an
> overlap of course. In days of old it was bedded in thick tar, just
> now I think that's on the legislative no-no list.
>
tar such as roofing tar and nailed in with copper ring shank nails. The tar
seals in the puncture from the nails and since it's copper nails, galvanic
corrosion is not a problem. 10 to 12 years later when it's time to
re-sheet, you tear off the old copper, drive the nails in tight and start
over.
Though marine animals don't like copper to grow on the plant life will try
and if the boat is not underway often can grow a nice beard requiring a good
brushing once every month or two. Especially in fresh water.
I've seen boats at moorings for a month or more with copper/epoxy coatings
have a growth but it's easily brushed off. Which makes sense because it
doesn't slough off like ablative bottom paints.
More work for monthly maintenance but can last many years.
Jeff
As I understand it, copper sheet was screwed to the bottom with
copper screws, to prevent galvanic corrosion. There would be an
overlap of course. In days of old it was bedded in thick tar, just
now I think that's on the legislative no-no list.
Most anti fouling paints include copper.
Does adding a bottle of cayenne pepper to your favorite bottom paint
work on the Florida critters. It's really effective on zebra mussels
up on the great lakes.
My Twisted Seagull skiff was in the water in Clearwater for 2 and
1/2 months this winter and came out with barnacles all over. But I
hadn't added the cayenne.
I'll do a repaint with the hot pepper powder this summer and let
ya'll know next spring how it works in the sunny south.
Bruce Hector
copper screws, to prevent galvanic corrosion. There would be an
overlap of course. In days of old it was bedded in thick tar, just
now I think that's on the legislative no-no list.
Most anti fouling paints include copper.
Does adding a bottle of cayenne pepper to your favorite bottom paint
work on the Florida critters. It's really effective on zebra mussels
up on the great lakes.
My Twisted Seagull skiff was in the water in Clearwater for 2 and
1/2 months this winter and came out with barnacles all over. But I
hadn't added the cayenne.
I'll do a repaint with the hot pepper powder this summer and let
ya'll know next spring how it works in the sunny south.
Bruce Hector
Hi All -
Since the subject has been broached I'd like to get some additional information......Here in south Florida leaving a boat on a mooring is an open invitation to wind up with a sea weed and oyster factory growing on the bottom even when using top of the line anti-fouling like "Trinidad".
Has anyone had any experience coppering the bottom - what did you use & how did you apply it ?
How about powered copper (where can you get it) set in epoxy or added to your anti fouling ?
When building "Champlain" I'd really be interested in putting actual sheet copper on the bottom, does anyone have any experience with this - how thick - where did you purchase the material - what was it bedded in - does it get coated with anything ?????
If this is affordable it would be an interesting concept especially since the government has regulated all the stuff that works out of the antifouling paints.
Aloha -Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since the subject has been broached I'd like to get some additional information......Here in south Florida leaving a boat on a mooring is an open invitation to wind up with a sea weed and oyster factory growing on the bottom even when using top of the line anti-fouling like "Trinidad".
Has anyone had any experience coppering the bottom - what did you use & how did you apply it ?
How about powered copper (where can you get it) set in epoxy or added to your anti fouling ?
When building "Champlain" I'd really be interested in putting actual sheet copper on the bottom, does anyone have any experience with this - how thick - where did you purchase the material - what was it bedded in - does it get coated with anything ?????
If this is affordable it would be an interesting concept especially since the government has regulated all the stuff that works out of the antifouling paints.
Aloha -Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]