[bolger] Re: MJ 'Knock downs'
Well said, Bennett...
I sent Steve a note off-group encouraging him to explore the handling of his
boat before leaping to modify. I think the MJ's are performing to sharpie
design, a good measure of initial stability, then going over pretty quick
when really pressed or stalled in a gust - much like a catamaran. I
recommend owners wear their life jackets and enjoy their boats up to 16-18
knots, then wear their life jackets, button up the hatches and be very
careful with the sheets up past 25 knots. If the self-righting is really
marginal, a detachable 50+ pound lead tip for a leeboard might be useful
when facing a heavy passage which can't be avoided.
The Micro-type lead keel would have to weigh well over 1000 lb to scale up
to a MJ, and that's an entirely different boat.
Don Hodges
I sent Steve a note off-group encouraging him to explore the handling of his
boat before leaping to modify. I think the MJ's are performing to sharpie
design, a good measure of initial stability, then going over pretty quick
when really pressed or stalled in a gust - much like a catamaran. I
recommend owners wear their life jackets and enjoy their boats up to 16-18
knots, then wear their life jackets, button up the hatches and be very
careful with the sheets up past 25 knots. If the self-righting is really
marginal, a detachable 50+ pound lead tip for a leeboard might be useful
when facing a heavy passage which can't be avoided.
The Micro-type lead keel would have to weigh well over 1000 lb to scale up
to a MJ, and that's an entirely different boat.
Don Hodges
----- Original Message -----
From: BTS <btscheuer@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 4:53 PM
Subject: [bolger] MJ 'Knock downs'
> Those of you, who are studying the Martha Jane design with what you
> seem to regard as an inherent design flaw; please consider the
> following:
>
> I built a Martha Jane <snip a great testimony to trailer-sailing> And,
yes, I was 'knocked down' once ... sort of...
Those of you, who are studying the Martha Jane design with what you
seem to regard as an inherent design flaw; please consider the
following:
I built a Martha Jane and last year towed her over 20,000 miles across
the country and into parts of Canada. I have sailed her in assorted
conditions from Puget Sound to San Francisco Bay to the Florida Keys,
the St. John River, the Gulf of Mexico,the Chesapeake Bay, Buzzards
Bay, off Cape Ann, the Gulf of Maine, and the Bras de Or Lakes of Nova
Scotia.Other smaller bodies of water were sailed upon as well - too
many to mention. And, yes, I was 'knocked down' once ... sort of.
In about 25 kts. of wind on the Indian River in Florida, I was sailing
with three other men (two well into their seventies) aboard. Two of
these men sat to leeward, each weighing well over 200 lbs. The other
'crew' was at the helm and I was in effect a passanger on my own
vessel. The main was sheeted in quite tight and the boat was being
pressed. As the water rose toward the gunwhale I asked if the helmsman
and the crew at the main sheet if they were 'happy' with the situation.
They said they were and they continued to effectivly drive my boat
under. The sheet was not released fast enough and there we were, in the
water, with the boat 'knocked down'.
However; the sheets were released and the boat righted herself. We
sailed off, a bit shaken, but without a drop of water below despite the
fact that the companionway was wide open and the forward ports were as
well. The outboard never saw the water either.
I will leave all speculation to those of you who have interest in this
particular subject but would like to point out one or two facts that
MIGHT have some bearing on the topic at hand: 1.) I built my boat 'to
plan' with one exeption. My cabin top was made with 3/8" ply rather
than 1/4". 2.) I took great pain to keep all aspects of my construction
simple. 3.) I took equal pain to keep weight aloft as low as possable.
When my 'knock down' occured, my boat had no interior furniture of any
kind and did truly represent Mr. Bolger's design. Now, with cabinets
and such I can not be certain that the same result would be achieved,
in terms of self righting. I have no intentions of finding out.
Those of you who have corresponded with me in the past know how
strongly I am opposed to altering designs. You also know that it is my
feeling that the capabilities of most boats exceeds that of their
skippers and of course I include myself in this comment. Further,I
believe, our boats 'talk' to us. Each in a different 'language'. As a
skipper it is my job to learn the language. It's not always easy and
yes the 'lessons' can be freightening.
With so many variables in terms of construction, materials,and sailing
experience, to mention a few ... we need to be very carefull before we
condemn a well considered design.
Respectfully, Bennett
Martha Jane 'Steadfast'
seem to regard as an inherent design flaw; please consider the
following:
I built a Martha Jane and last year towed her over 20,000 miles across
the country and into parts of Canada. I have sailed her in assorted
conditions from Puget Sound to San Francisco Bay to the Florida Keys,
the St. John River, the Gulf of Mexico,the Chesapeake Bay, Buzzards
Bay, off Cape Ann, the Gulf of Maine, and the Bras de Or Lakes of Nova
Scotia.Other smaller bodies of water were sailed upon as well - too
many to mention. And, yes, I was 'knocked down' once ... sort of.
In about 25 kts. of wind on the Indian River in Florida, I was sailing
with three other men (two well into their seventies) aboard. Two of
these men sat to leeward, each weighing well over 200 lbs. The other
'crew' was at the helm and I was in effect a passanger on my own
vessel. The main was sheeted in quite tight and the boat was being
pressed. As the water rose toward the gunwhale I asked if the helmsman
and the crew at the main sheet if they were 'happy' with the situation.
They said they were and they continued to effectivly drive my boat
under. The sheet was not released fast enough and there we were, in the
water, with the boat 'knocked down'.
However; the sheets were released and the boat righted herself. We
sailed off, a bit shaken, but without a drop of water below despite the
fact that the companionway was wide open and the forward ports were as
well. The outboard never saw the water either.
I will leave all speculation to those of you who have interest in this
particular subject but would like to point out one or two facts that
MIGHT have some bearing on the topic at hand: 1.) I built my boat 'to
plan' with one exeption. My cabin top was made with 3/8" ply rather
than 1/4". 2.) I took great pain to keep all aspects of my construction
simple. 3.) I took equal pain to keep weight aloft as low as possable.
When my 'knock down' occured, my boat had no interior furniture of any
kind and did truly represent Mr. Bolger's design. Now, with cabinets
and such I can not be certain that the same result would be achieved,
in terms of self righting. I have no intentions of finding out.
Those of you who have corresponded with me in the past know how
strongly I am opposed to altering designs. You also know that it is my
feeling that the capabilities of most boats exceeds that of their
skippers and of course I include myself in this comment. Further,I
believe, our boats 'talk' to us. Each in a different 'language'. As a
skipper it is my job to learn the language. It's not always easy and
yes the 'lessons' can be freightening.
With so many variables in terms of construction, materials,and sailing
experience, to mention a few ... we need to be very carefull before we
condemn a well considered design.
Respectfully, Bennett
Martha Jane 'Steadfast'