Re: shallow-draft seaworthy design

She would be one heck of a pile of CDX, aye? I agree, about 90'.
Not that tough a build. Worst part will be getting the 5 1/2" x 4' X
90' shoe and lower hull glassed, and flipped. It might make sense to
have the lower hull done by a local tank contractor in steel, up to
the level of the fantail for the length of the boat. Tankage could
be built in. Upper hull, interior and decks in wood.

Maybe 200hp.

Bolger says in the essay, like building a house.

>>"I would like to embark on a
> > modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam, along with
150hp
> > diesel outdrive.
> >
> > The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho would start,
true
> > long term live aboard. Have to move South with her."
>
> Oh Don,
>
> Now you're talking. At that beam, she could be stretched to 90 feet,
> almost into STOL carrier lengths. I'm wi' ye' lad!
>
> Erin' ga' braughhhhh!
>
> Bruce Hector
Those are good thoughts. I imagine that one could fashion some means
of access to the "nose" of the boat. I will ruminate on these
questions!

Pierre

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> Pierre, one additional advantage is that the foam
> reduces the expansion/contraction of the air volume
> inside the nose (at least theoretically--even though
> each foam cell itself contains gas of some kind),
> lessening pressure on the nose planking. On my Topaz
> (foaming never even occurred to me) I ran a pigtail of
> copper tubing through the hull proper(cabin sole), to
> let air pressure inside and outside the nose equalize,
> per instructions from a West System tech guy. On the
> down side, I would also worry about rot with foam. I
> punctured the nose on the trailer before I put the
> boat in once. It barely affected the trim at all--I
> didn't know I had done it till I pulled the boat and
> water poured out. It was easy to dry the area before
> resealing by drilling a hole through the sole and
> sticking the exhaust from a shop vac in it. If I had
> foam and it got soaked, I would be concerned about
> getting it dry. Still, for the reasons Peter
> mentions, if I had to do it again, I would use foam.
> Sam
> --- Pierre <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > Actually, I don't know much about expanding foam,
> > unless you are
> > talking about the stuff that you inject in the
> > spaces around window
> > and door frames before they are closed in.
> >
> > With the Topaz, I was thinking that the nose must be
> > above the water
> > line, or nearly entirely above the water line, and
> > that therefore
> > the only contact it would have with the water would
> > be when it was
> > in motion through the waves. Any leaks would likely
> > empty themselves
> > out. But I can see that expanding foam would in fact
> > keep the water
> > out, since it sort of sticks to the wood. I suppose
> > I would be
> > worried about small amounts of moisture getting
> > trapped, and then -
> > even though it has been epoxied - the consequent
> > risk of rot.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Pierre, one additional advantage is that the foam
reduces the expansion/contraction of the air volume
inside the nose (at least theoretically--even though
each foam cell itself contains gas of some kind),
lessening pressure on the nose planking. On my Topaz
(foaming never even occurred to me) I ran a pigtail of
copper tubing through the hull proper(cabin sole), to
let air pressure inside and outside the nose equalize,
per instructions from a West System tech guy. On the
down side, I would also worry about rot with foam. I
punctured the nose on the trailer before I put the
boat in once. It barely affected the trim at all--I
didn't know I had done it till I pulled the boat and
water poured out. It was easy to dry the area before
resealing by drilling a hole through the sole and
sticking the exhaust from a shop vac in it. If I had
foam and it got soaked, I would be concerned about
getting it dry. Still, for the reasons Peter
mentions, if I had to do it again, I would use foam.
Sam
--- Pierre <myvoj@...> wrote:
> Actually, I don't know much about expanding foam,
> unless you are
> talking about the stuff that you inject in the
> spaces around window
> and door frames before they are closed in.
>
> With the Topaz, I was thinking that the nose must be
> above the water
> line, or nearly entirely above the water line, and
> that therefore
> the only contact it would have with the water would
> be when it was
> in motion through the waves. Any leaks would likely
> empty themselves
> out. But I can see that expanding foam would in fact
> keep the water
> out, since it sort of sticks to the wood. I suppose
> I would be
> worried about small amounts of moisture getting
> trapped, and then -
> even though it has been epoxied - the consequent
> risk of rot.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Actually, I don't know much about expanding foam, unless you are
talking about the stuff that you inject in the spaces around window
and door frames before they are closed in.

With the Topaz, I was thinking that the nose must be above the water
line, or nearly entirely above the water line, and that therefore
the only contact it would have with the water would be when it was
in motion through the waves. Any leaks would likely empty themselves
out. But I can see that expanding foam would in fact keep the water
out, since it sort of sticks to the wood. I suppose I would be
worried about small amounts of moisture getting trapped, and then -
even though it has been epoxied - the consequent risk of rot.

Maybe I am too paranoid about rot.

Inevitably, I will go with what Bolger recommends, since clearly
others have gone down this path before me!

Pierre

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> Apart from the
> > assurance about the floatation, what would be the advantage of
> > filling the nose with foam? It would be easy enough, but it
> wouldn't
> > necessarily keep water out - in fact it wouldn't contribute
> greatly
> > to the permanent or temporary floatability of the boat... it
seems
> > to me...
> >
> > Pierre
>
>
>
>
> Pierre,
> While I cannot speak directly about TOPAZ, I can say that
for
> Windermere,Bolger calls for foam to be used to fill the cavity
> formed by the fillet pieces along side the boxkeel.He specifies
> expanding foam.
> Advantages:this foam fills all cavities leaving no room for
> water to accumulate either through a puncture or condensation(it
> will keep water out).The foam adds greatly to the stiffness of
these
> developed shapes.In case of accidental contact with semi-submerged
> objects,or a mis-understanding with the trailer,any breach of the
> outer skin will not need to cause massive flooding within the
> enclosed volume of the fillet pieces.It greatly reduces or
> elliminates sound transfer into the rest of the
> accommadations.Positive floatation regardless of whether or not
> there has been a puncture or not.
> Dis-advantges:for boats in this size range and up which
> exploit Bolgers crafty use of plywood "shapes" to knock the edge
off
> the boxy flat bottoms,while improving handling
characteristics....I
> can't think of one reason not to have it,and, nor can
> Bolger,apparently:-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder........
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
> <glasscocklanding@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Pierre, the "nose" on Topaz is simple once you see the
> > > plans. The bottom proper is rockered very high at the
> > > bow, and a spine is attached to it which serves the
> > > purpose of a keel(son) in more normal v-bottom plywood
> > > construction. The pre-shaped plywood planking is then
> > > fastened to the spine and to the bottom along the
> > > forward part of the chine, making a v-bottom which
> > > flows into the flat bottom about halfway back. It is
> > > harder to describe than it is to do--the hard part is
> > > coming up with the shape of the v-planking pieces, and
> > > that work has been done by Mr. Bolger. Sam
> > > --- Pierre <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > > > I am becoming enamoured of the Topaz. It seems to be
> > > > exactly what I
> > > > want. I will keep exploring.
> > > >
> > > > For the cruising we will be doing, I do want a
> > > > relatively open boat,
> > > > where I can occasionally get out of the rain and
> > > > wind. The Topaz
> > > > seems to fit the bill. I am somewhat mystified at
> > > > this point about
> > > > the construction of the nose, but presumably all
> > > > comes clear when
> > > > you get the plans.
> > > >
> > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275"
> > > > <donschultz@i...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Pierre,
> > > > >
> > > > >http://jboats.weblogger.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > This link will take you to a nicely photographed
> > > > build up of a
> > > > Topaz.
> > > > > There are Windemere and Topaz files and pics
> > > > scattered among the
> > > > > Yahoo Bolger groups 1-4. It is rather laborious
> > > > getting through
> > > > them
> > > > > all.
> > > > >
> > > > > For myself, I'd like to build an Idaho as a
> > > > minimal short term
> > > > live
> > > > > aboard, for a few days to a couple of weeks at a
> > > > time. The intent
> > > > is
> > > > > to try the life style, seek if it suits me.
> > > > >
> > > > > My usage would be on rivers and small lakes in the
> > > > Midwest,
> > > > avoiding
> > > > > the Great Lakes except for some very carefully
> > > > timed forays,
> > > > lasting
> > > > > just a few hours. I would intend to explore up
> > > > the Des Plaines to
> > > > > the Chicago River and up the North Branch, taking
> > > > advantage of the
> > > > > Idaho's shallow draft.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then I would turn down the Illinois, poking around
> > > > the edges,
> > > > seeking
> > > > > the quiet spots to anchor for the night, calling
> > > > it a big day if I
> > > > > cover 25 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't intend to build something to last for
> > > > posterity. I'd
> > > > fully
> > > > > expect the boat to be in a landfill in 20 years
> > > > tops. She'll be
> > > > > simple, light, rough around the edges, with a 50'
> > > > finish. For me,
> > > > > that's the simple beauty of these Bolger sharpies.
> > > > >
> > > > > After building my skill set w' the Idaho, I would
> > > > like to embark
> > > > on a
> > > > > modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam,
> > > > along with 150hp
> > > > > diesel outdrive.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho
> > > > would start, true
> > > > > long term live aboard. Have to move South with
> > > > her.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre"
> > > > <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > This is great information - I have had a look at
> > > > the Topaz and
> > > > the
> > > > > > Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It
> > > > clearly would be
> > > > more
> > > > > > seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will continue finding more information on the
> > > > Topaz; if there
> > > > is
> > > > > > any out there that you know of, please pass it
> > > > on!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are
> > > > the Canadian
> > > > Gulf
> > > > > > Islands, right by the San Juans north of
> > > > Seattle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
> > >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote:
Apart from the
> assurance about the floatation, what would be the advantage of
> filling the nose with foam? It would be easy enough, but it
wouldn't
> necessarily keep water out - in fact it wouldn't contribute
greatly
> to the permanent or temporary floatability of the boat... it seems
> to me...
>
> Pierre




Pierre,
While I cannot speak directly about TOPAZ, I can say that for
Windermere,Bolger calls for foam to be used to fill the cavity
formed by the fillet pieces along side the boxkeel.He specifies
expanding foam.
Advantages:this foam fills all cavities leaving no room for
water to accumulate either through a puncture or condensation(it
will keep water out).The foam adds greatly to the stiffness of these
developed shapes.In case of accidental contact with semi-submerged
objects,or a mis-understanding with the trailer,any breach of the
outer skin will not need to cause massive flooding within the
enclosed volume of the fillet pieces.It greatly reduces or
elliminates sound transfer into the rest of the
accommadations.Positive floatation regardless of whether or not
there has been a puncture or not.
Dis-advantges:for boats in this size range and up which
exploit Bolgers crafty use of plywood "shapes" to knock the edge off
the boxy flat bottoms,while improving handling characteristics....I
can't think of one reason not to have it,and, nor can
Bolger,apparently:-)


Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder........





>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
<glasscocklanding@y...>
> wrote:
> > Pierre, the "nose" on Topaz is simple once you see the
> > plans. The bottom proper is rockered very high at the
> > bow, and a spine is attached to it which serves the
> > purpose of a keel(son) in more normal v-bottom plywood
> > construction. The pre-shaped plywood planking is then
> > fastened to the spine and to the bottom along the
> > forward part of the chine, making a v-bottom which
> > flows into the flat bottom about halfway back. It is
> > harder to describe than it is to do--the hard part is
> > coming up with the shape of the v-planking pieces, and
> > that work has been done by Mr. Bolger. Sam
> > --- Pierre <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > > I am becoming enamoured of the Topaz. It seems to be
> > > exactly what I
> > > want. I will keep exploring.
> > >
> > > For the cruising we will be doing, I do want a
> > > relatively open boat,
> > > where I can occasionally get out of the rain and
> > > wind. The Topaz
> > > seems to fit the bill. I am somewhat mystified at
> > > this point about
> > > the construction of the nose, but presumably all
> > > comes clear when
> > > you get the plans.
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275"
> > > <donschultz@i...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Pierre,
> > > >
> > > >http://jboats.weblogger.com/
> > > >
> > > > This link will take you to a nicely photographed
> > > build up of a
> > > Topaz.
> > > > There are Windemere and Topaz files and pics
> > > scattered among the
> > > > Yahoo Bolger groups 1-4. It is rather laborious
> > > getting through
> > > them
> > > > all.
> > > >
> > > > For myself, I'd like to build an Idaho as a
> > > minimal short term
> > > live
> > > > aboard, for a few days to a couple of weeks at a
> > > time. The intent
> > > is
> > > > to try the life style, seek if it suits me.
> > > >
> > > > My usage would be on rivers and small lakes in the
> > > Midwest,
> > > avoiding
> > > > the Great Lakes except for some very carefully
> > > timed forays,
> > > lasting
> > > > just a few hours. I would intend to explore up
> > > the Des Plaines to
> > > > the Chicago River and up the North Branch, taking
> > > advantage of the
> > > > Idaho's shallow draft.
> > > >
> > > > Then I would turn down the Illinois, poking around
> > > the edges,
> > > seeking
> > > > the quiet spots to anchor for the night, calling
> > > it a big day if I
> > > > cover 25 miles.
> > > >
> > > > I don't intend to build something to last for
> > > posterity. I'd
> > > fully
> > > > expect the boat to be in a landfill in 20 years
> > > tops. She'll be
> > > > simple, light, rough around the edges, with a 50'
> > > finish. For me,
> > > > that's the simple beauty of these Bolger sharpies.
> > > >
> > > > After building my skill set w' the Idaho, I would
> > > like to embark
> > > on a
> > > > modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam,
> > > along with 150hp
> > > > diesel outdrive.
> > > >
> > > > The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho
> > > would start, true
> > > > long term live aboard. Have to move South with
> > > her.
> > > >
> > > > Don
> > > >
> > > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre"
> > > <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > > > > This is great information - I have had a look at
> > > the Topaz and
> > > the
> > > > > Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It
> > > clearly would be
> > > more
> > > > > seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will continue finding more information on the
> > > Topaz; if there
> > > is
> > > > > any out there that you know of, please pass it
> > > on!
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are
> > > the Canadian
> > > Gulf
> > > > > Islands, right by the San Juans north of
> > > Seattle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pierre
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
> >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Thanks, Sam. I looked at the website (http://jboats.weblogger.com)
which shows a Topaz construction process, and I think I see it now.
I had the same question about filling the nose. Apart from the
assurance about the floatation, what would be the advantage of
filling the nose with foam? It would be easy enough, but it wouldn't
necessarily keep water out - in fact it wouldn't contribute greatly
to the permanent or temporary floatability of the boat... it seems
to me...

Pierre

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
wrote:
> Pierre, the "nose" on Topaz is simple once you see the
> plans. The bottom proper is rockered very high at the
> bow, and a spine is attached to it which serves the
> purpose of a keel(son) in more normal v-bottom plywood
> construction. The pre-shaped plywood planking is then
> fastened to the spine and to the bottom along the
> forward part of the chine, making a v-bottom which
> flows into the flat bottom about halfway back. It is
> harder to describe than it is to do--the hard part is
> coming up with the shape of the v-planking pieces, and
> that work has been done by Mr. Bolger. Sam
> --- Pierre <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > I am becoming enamoured of the Topaz. It seems to be
> > exactly what I
> > want. I will keep exploring.
> >
> > For the cruising we will be doing, I do want a
> > relatively open boat,
> > where I can occasionally get out of the rain and
> > wind. The Topaz
> > seems to fit the bill. I am somewhat mystified at
> > this point about
> > the construction of the nose, but presumably all
> > comes clear when
> > you get the plans.
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275"
> > <donschultz@i...>
> > wrote:
> > > Pierre,
> > >
> > >http://jboats.weblogger.com/
> > >
> > > This link will take you to a nicely photographed
> > build up of a
> > Topaz.
> > > There are Windemere and Topaz files and pics
> > scattered among the
> > > Yahoo Bolger groups 1-4. It is rather laborious
> > getting through
> > them
> > > all.
> > >
> > > For myself, I'd like to build an Idaho as a
> > minimal short term
> > live
> > > aboard, for a few days to a couple of weeks at a
> > time. The intent
> > is
> > > to try the life style, seek if it suits me.
> > >
> > > My usage would be on rivers and small lakes in the
> > Midwest,
> > avoiding
> > > the Great Lakes except for some very carefully
> > timed forays,
> > lasting
> > > just a few hours. I would intend to explore up
> > the Des Plaines to
> > > the Chicago River and up the North Branch, taking
> > advantage of the
> > > Idaho's shallow draft.
> > >
> > > Then I would turn down the Illinois, poking around
> > the edges,
> > seeking
> > > the quiet spots to anchor for the night, calling
> > it a big day if I
> > > cover 25 miles.
> > >
> > > I don't intend to build something to last for
> > posterity. I'd
> > fully
> > > expect the boat to be in a landfill in 20 years
> > tops. She'll be
> > > simple, light, rough around the edges, with a 50'
> > finish. For me,
> > > that's the simple beauty of these Bolger sharpies.
> > >
> > > After building my skill set w' the Idaho, I would
> > like to embark
> > on a
> > > modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam,
> > along with 150hp
> > > diesel outdrive.
> > >
> > > The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho
> > would start, true
> > > long term live aboard. Have to move South with
> > her.
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre"
> > <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > > > This is great information - I have had a look at
> > the Topaz and
> > the
> > > > Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It
> > clearly would be
> > more
> > > > seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
> > > >
> > > > I will continue finding more information on the
> > Topaz; if there
> > is
> > > > any out there that you know of, please pass it
> > on!
> > > >
> > > > Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are
> > the Canadian
> > Gulf
> > > > Islands, right by the San Juans north of
> > Seattle.
> > > >
> > > > Pierre
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
The nose section is sealed air- and water-tight. Mine
is empty (air-filled, not a vacuum) but I have since
learned that Bolger recommends foam.
I keep my boat on a trailer and have trailered it
hundreds of miles. The length has been no problem, as
long as I remember that it is back there. The boat is
so light and narrow that towing is easy--I am hoping
to pull here from Delaware to Miami this summer. Sam
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> --- Sam Glasscock wrote:
> > The bottom proper is rockered
> > very high at the bow, ... The
> > pre-shaped plywood planking is
> > then fastened
>
> Sam, is the volume between the
> true bottom and the 'faired out'
> plywood planking filled with
> air or foam? Does it have
> drain holes or is it a sealed
> chamber?
>
> Do you have your Topaz rigged
> to haul on a trailer? If so,
> how is it towing such a long
> boat?
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- Sam Glasscock wrote:
> The bottom proper is rockered
> very high at the bow, ... The
> pre-shaped plywood planking is
> then fastened

Sam, is the volume between the
true bottom and the 'faired out'
plywood planking filled with
air or foam? Does it have
drain holes or is it a sealed
chamber?

Do you have your Topaz rigged
to haul on a trailer? If so,
how is it towing such a long
boat?
Pierre, the "nose" on Topaz is simple once you see the
plans. The bottom proper is rockered very high at the
bow, and a spine is attached to it which serves the
purpose of a keel(son) in more normal v-bottom plywood
construction. The pre-shaped plywood planking is then
fastened to the spine and to the bottom along the
forward part of the chine, making a v-bottom which
flows into the flat bottom about halfway back. It is
harder to describe than it is to do--the hard part is
coming up with the shape of the v-planking pieces, and
that work has been done by Mr. Bolger. Sam
--- Pierre <myvoj@...> wrote:
> I am becoming enamoured of the Topaz. It seems to be
> exactly what I
> want. I will keep exploring.
>
> For the cruising we will be doing, I do want a
> relatively open boat,
> where I can occasionally get out of the rain and
> wind. The Topaz
> seems to fit the bill. I am somewhat mystified at
> this point about
> the construction of the nose, but presumably all
> comes clear when
> you get the plans.
>
> Pierre
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275"
> <donschultz@i...>
> wrote:
> > Pierre,
> >
> >http://jboats.weblogger.com/
> >
> > This link will take you to a nicely photographed
> build up of a
> Topaz.
> > There are Windemere and Topaz files and pics
> scattered among the
> > Yahoo Bolger groups 1-4. It is rather laborious
> getting through
> them
> > all.
> >
> > For myself, I'd like to build an Idaho as a
> minimal short term
> live
> > aboard, for a few days to a couple of weeks at a
> time. The intent
> is
> > to try the life style, seek if it suits me.
> >
> > My usage would be on rivers and small lakes in the
> Midwest,
> avoiding
> > the Great Lakes except for some very carefully
> timed forays,
> lasting
> > just a few hours. I would intend to explore up
> the Des Plaines to
> > the Chicago River and up the North Branch, taking
> advantage of the
> > Idaho's shallow draft.
> >
> > Then I would turn down the Illinois, poking around
> the edges,
> seeking
> > the quiet spots to anchor for the night, calling
> it a big day if I
> > cover 25 miles.
> >
> > I don't intend to build something to last for
> posterity. I'd
> fully
> > expect the boat to be in a landfill in 20 years
> tops. She'll be
> > simple, light, rough around the edges, with a 50'
> finish. For me,
> > that's the simple beauty of these Bolger sharpies.
> >
> > After building my skill set w' the Idaho, I would
> like to embark
> on a
> > modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam,
> along with 150hp
> > diesel outdrive.
> >
> > The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho
> would start, true
> > long term live aboard. Have to move South with
> her.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre"
> <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > > This is great information - I have had a look at
> the Topaz and
> the
> > > Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It
> clearly would be
> more
> > > seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
> > >
> > > I will continue finding more information on the
> Topaz; if there
> is
> > > any out there that you know of, please pass it
> on!
> > >
> > > Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are
> the Canadian
> Gulf
> > > Islands, right by the San Juans north of
> Seattle.
> > >
> > > Pierre
>
>





__________________________________
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I am becoming enamoured of the Topaz. It seems to be exactly what I
want. I will keep exploring.

For the cruising we will be doing, I do want a relatively open boat,
where I can occasionally get out of the rain and wind. The Topaz
seems to fit the bill. I am somewhat mystified at this point about
the construction of the nose, but presumably all comes clear when
you get the plans.

Pierre

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
> Pierre,
>
>http://jboats.weblogger.com/
>
> This link will take you to a nicely photographed build up of a
Topaz.
> There are Windemere and Topaz files and pics scattered among the
> Yahoo Bolger groups 1-4. It is rather laborious getting through
them
> all.
>
> For myself, I'd like to build an Idaho as a minimal short term
live
> aboard, for a few days to a couple of weeks at a time. The intent
is
> to try the life style, seek if it suits me.
>
> My usage would be on rivers and small lakes in the Midwest,
avoiding
> the Great Lakes except for some very carefully timed forays,
lasting
> just a few hours. I would intend to explore up the Des Plaines to
> the Chicago River and up the North Branch, taking advantage of the
> Idaho's shallow draft.
>
> Then I would turn down the Illinois, poking around the edges,
seeking
> the quiet spots to anchor for the night, calling it a big day if I
> cover 25 miles.
>
> I don't intend to build something to last for posterity. I'd
fully
> expect the boat to be in a landfill in 20 years tops. She'll be
> simple, light, rough around the edges, with a 50' finish. For me,
> that's the simple beauty of these Bolger sharpies.
>
> After building my skill set w' the Idaho, I would like to embark
on a
> modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam, along with 150hp
> diesel outdrive.
>
> The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho would start, true
> long term live aboard. Have to move South with her.
>
> Don
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> > This is great information - I have had a look at the Topaz and
the
> > Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It clearly would be
more
> > seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
> >
> > I will continue finding more information on the Topaz; if there
is
> > any out there that you know of, please pass it on!
> >
> > Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are the Canadian
Gulf
> > Islands, right by the San Juans north of Seattle.
> >
> > Pierre
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote: "I would like to embark on a
> modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam, along with 150hp
> diesel outdrive.
>
> The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho would start, true
> long term live aboard. Have to move South with her."

Oh Don,

Now you're talking. At that beam, she could be stretched to 90 feet,
almost into STOL carrier lengths. I'm wi' ye' lad!

Erin' ga' braughhhhh!

Bruce Hector
Pierre,

http://jboats.weblogger.com/

This link will take you to a nicely photographed build up of a Topaz.
There are Windemere and Topaz files and pics scattered among the
Yahoo Bolger groups 1-4. It is rather laborious getting through them
all.

For myself, I'd like to build an Idaho as a minimal short term live
aboard, for a few days to a couple of weeks at a time. The intent is
to try the life style, seek if it suits me.

My usage would be on rivers and small lakes in the Midwest, avoiding
the Great Lakes except for some very carefully timed forays, lasting
just a few hours. I would intend to explore up the Des Plaines to
the Chicago River and up the North Branch, taking advantage of the
Idaho's shallow draft.

Then I would turn down the Illinois, poking around the edges, seeking
the quiet spots to anchor for the night, calling it a big day if I
cover 25 miles.

I don't intend to build something to last for posterity. I'd fully
expect the boat to be in a landfill in 20 years tops. She'll be
simple, light, rough around the edges, with a 50' finish. For me,
that's the simple beauty of these Bolger sharpies.

After building my skill set w' the Idaho, I would like to embark on a
modified Illinois, w' 7' overheads, and 12' beam, along with 150hp
diesel outdrive.

The Illinois would do the full mission the Idaho would start, true
long term live aboard. Have to move South with her.

Don

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> This is great information - I have had a look at the Topaz and the
> Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It clearly would be more
> seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
>
> I will continue finding more information on the Topaz; if there is
> any out there that you know of, please pass it on!
>
> Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are the Canadian Gulf
> Islands, right by the San Juans north of Seattle.
>
> Pierre
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote:
Ah Ha!, the very crusing grounds of the "Wayward Lass". Go to the
Chebbaco News and read all about Jamie's adventures. Makes one
wonder if the motor sailer version would fit the bill. Pictures of
the (I assume) first one are also in the newsletter.

Pierre you must keep us informed, because I also need to cruse the
same waters in summer. I would also like to trailer it to Florida
for the winter. If it could sneek across to the Bahamas in good
weather it would be ideal. Especially now that L.L. Bean is selling
a hand crank blender. Yes frozen concotions in paradise without
power, I definatly gotta get a boat.

Richard Menz
retiring in five years



> This is great information - I have had a look at the Topaz and the
> Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It clearly would be
more
> seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.
>
> I will continue finding more information on the Topaz; if there is
> any out there that you know of, please pass it on!
>
> Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are the Canadian Gulf
> Islands, right by the San Juans north of Seattle.
>
> Pierre
>
This is great information - I have had a look at the Topaz and the
Windemere, and kind of like the Windemere. It clearly would be more
seaworthy than the Idaho, for instance.

I will continue finding more information on the Topaz; if there is
any out there that you know of, please pass it on!

Oh! And the Gulf Islands I am talking about are the Canadian Gulf
Islands, right by the San Juans north of Seattle.

Pierre

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
> > a shallow-draft, seaworthy
> > design that will
> > stand up in some situations
> > to some serious waves
> > around the Gulf
> > Islands on the west coast.
>
> You're talking about the Baja right?
>
> I am very short on expertise and would readily stand to be
corrected,
> but in my reading the last few months, and based on your
requirements
> above I recommend the following.
>
> The Bolger design family tree to consider would include:
Windemere,
> Topaz, Sitka Explorer, Tahiti.
>
> These are all later designs, and have very similar hulls as a
group.
> The Tahiti is intended as the ultimate world traveler, capable of
> crossing the great oceans. It appears Bolger intends the Sitka as
> kind of a "Tahiti light" live aboard. Topaz, and Windemere are
> smaller versions of the same hull. For the conditions you
describe
> above, one of these is the way to go.
>
> I would specifically avoid the flat bottomed sharpies, including
> Idaho, Tennessee, Dakota, Wyoming. All are definitely intended
for
> protected waters, rivers, and ICW. Idaho would be downright scary
if
> not dangerous in the conditions you suggest. Bolger comments in
most
> of the essays I've found for these boats that they will "survive"
> difficult seas with expert handling, and won't be comfortable in a
> strong head sea. With each of these, keeping the prop in the
water
> providing thrust and steerage in heavy seas would be a problem.
> Doesn't sound like much fun.
>
> Lastly, seriously consider submitting your question via FAX to
Bolger
> & Friends, seeking their recommendation.
> a shallow-draft, seaworthy
> design that will
> stand up in some situations
> to some serious waves
> around the Gulf
> Islands on the west coast.

You're talking about the Baja right?

I am very short on expertise and would readily stand to be corrected,
but in my reading the last few months, and based on your requirements
above I recommend the following.

The Bolger design family tree to consider would include: Windemere,
Topaz, Sitka Explorer, Tahiti.

These are all later designs, and have very similar hulls as a group.
The Tahiti is intended as the ultimate world traveler, capable of
crossing the great oceans. It appears Bolger intends the Sitka as
kind of a "Tahiti light" live aboard. Topaz, and Windemere are
smaller versions of the same hull. For the conditions you describe
above, one of these is the way to go.

I would specifically avoid the flat bottomed sharpies, including
Idaho, Tennessee, Dakota, Wyoming. All are definitely intended for
protected waters, rivers, and ICW. Idaho would be downright scary if
not dangerous in the conditions you suggest. Bolger comments in most
of the essays I've found for these boats that they will "survive"
difficult seas with expert handling, and won't be comfortable in a
strong head sea. With each of these, keeping the prop in the water
providing thrust and steerage in heavy seas would be a problem.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

Lastly, seriously consider submitting your question via FAX to Bolger
& Friends, seeking their recommendation.
And of course, who can forget the ultimate shallow draft design,
the "HMCS" (Hector's Magnificent Carrier Sharpie".

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Carrier/

Phil said this would be straigtforward, and he'd love to finish the
design. I don't recall him mentioning he'd like to fly off or land on
it though!

As for finding these, join all 5 of the Bolger Yahoo groups and
explore their section, including the links.

Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/monumentpreservation/
A little hobby of mine.
I thought I had scoured the internet for designs, but the last ones
you mention I haven't come across. If you have any sites where I can
find them, that would be great.

At the moment, I am starting to lean away from pursuing this dream
of mine as probably unrealistic or badly conceived. At the moment I
have a 21 ft. inboard/outboard, V-hull commercially made boat. It
has about 18 inches of draft with the motor half way down, which is
where I put it for travelling close in by our property. No doubt,
however, I will continue the search - liking the feel and look of a
boat made with wood, with simpler, more classic lines.

Thanks again.

Pierre


--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote: "I have
> seen references to the Dakota, but have run across any
> > information on it. Can anyone help me out?"
>
> In this groups files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Dakota/
> Including the version Phil drew for me with a double bed instead of
> the paired singles.
>
> Phil would now steer you towards Windemere, similar accomodations
and
> even more seaworthy on a shallow draft. Many (especially Peter
> Lenihna) would say a far more attractive and capable design.
> Look in the files at Bolger2:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%
20Construction%20photos/
>
> And what about Sitka Explorer, Puffer, MS Cargo Boat, Gill Netter
> Houseboat, Champlain, Minnesotta, Wyoming or the mighty Illinois?
ANd
> dozens more that aren't coming to mind just now.
>
> Consider joining and plowing through the files and photo sections
of
> Bolger, Bolger 2, Bolger 3, Bolger4photos and Bolger4sale, all
Yahoo
> groups with a good chunk of PB&Fs designs represented.
>
> Enjoy as the World Wide Waste of time captures your imagination.
>
> Bruce Hector
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KingstonMessabout/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <myvoj@y...> wrote: "I have
seen references to the Dakota, but have run across any
> information on it. Can anyone help me out?"

In this groups files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Dakota/
Including the version Phil drew for me with a double bed instead of
the paired singles.

Phil would now steer you towards Windemere, similar accomodations and
even more seaworthy on a shallow draft. Many (especially Peter
Lenihna) would say a far more attractive and capable design.
Look in the files at Bolger2:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%20Construction%20photos/

And what about Sitka Explorer, Puffer, MS Cargo Boat, Gill Netter
Houseboat, Champlain, Minnesotta, Wyoming or the mighty Illinois? ANd
dozens more that aren't coming to mind just now.

Consider joining and plowing through the files and photo sections of
Bolger, Bolger 2, Bolger 3, Bolger4photos and Bolger4sale, all Yahoo
groups with a good chunk of PB&Fs designs represented.

Enjoy as the World Wide Waste of time captures your imagination.

Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KingstonMessabout/
I have seen references to the Dakota, but have run across any
information on it. Can anyone help me out?

I will have a look at the Gloucester Gull dory.

Thanks.


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> --- myvoj wrote:
> > a shallow-draft, seaworthy
> > design that will
> > stand up in some situations
> > to some serious waves
> > around the Gulf
> > Islands on the west coast.
>
> I asked almost this same
> question of Bolger & Friends
> last year and their answer
> was the Dakota. I think
> the Idaho is a bit too flat
> on the bottom, and the
> Dakota has more rocker in
> the bottom, but is still
> shallow draft.
>
> For attractive rowboats,
> the Glouchester Gull dory
> is unexcelled IMO.
--- myvoj wrote:
> a shallow-draft, seaworthy
> design that will
> stand up in some situations
> to some serious waves
> around the Gulf
> Islands on the west coast.

I asked almost this same
question of Bolger & Friends
last year and their answer
was the Dakota. I think
the Idaho is a bit too flat
on the bottom, and the
Dakota has more rocker in
the bottom, but is still
shallow draft.

For attractive rowboats,
the Glouchester Gull dory
is unexcelled IMO.
Check out Atkin's designs, they are some of the best.
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/

D

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "myvoj" <myvoj@y...> wrote:
> Where I boat, I need a shallow-draft, seaworthy design that will
> stand up in some situations to some serious waves around the Gulf
> Islands on the west coast.
>
> My eye has been caught by the Idaho. Can anyone help me out about
> the seaworthiness? My fear would be lack of stability, given the
> narrow beam.
>
> Pierre
Where I boat, I need a shallow-draft, seaworthy design that will
stand up in some situations to some serious waves around the Gulf
Islands on the west coast.

My eye has been caught by the Idaho. Can anyone help me out about
the seaworthiness? My fear would be lack of stability, given the
narrow beam.

Pierre