Re: Running Rigging (Bobcat)
I always try to approach docks in such a direction so that I can luff
and coast in very slowly. I don't even try to lower the sails until I am
tied up to something. I suppose if I was approaching a dock that was
dead downwind, and I was trying to enter a narrow spot with boats close
in on either side, I might consider dropping the sail and drifting in. I
don't recall ever having to do that.
What's the problem when trying to leave the harbor with winds that are
not "agreeable"?
and coast in very slowly. I don't even try to lower the sails until I am
tied up to something. I suppose if I was approaching a dock that was
dead downwind, and I was trying to enter a narrow spot with boats close
in on either side, I might consider dropping the sail and drifting in. I
don't recall ever having to do that.
What's the problem when trying to leave the harbor with winds that are
not "agreeable"?
>Bob Chamberland wrote:
>
>Perhaps I'm particularly inept. I haven't sailed my Bobcat a lot
>because I can only get out of the harbor with agreeable winds and not
>too strong. Once out I'm ok. Coming back in is the same as going out.
>I need agreeable winds and have too move fast when I come into the
>launch pier. I've found that when I approach the pier undoing lines
>from traditional cleats on the deck is a hassle and if I'm too slow I
>am drifting off into someones boat-usually bright finished. I find
>that I want the rig down fast and to hell with traditional looks etc.
>I have installed clam cleats so that when I approach the dock I can
>drop the rig smartly and clamber aboard the dock. The only other
>improvement will be some sort of boom crotch so that I can avoid being
>swept off the boat. With cleats on the mast I'd have no chance.
>Bob Chamberland
>
Perhaps I'm particularly inept. I haven't sailed my Bobcat a lot
because I can only get out of the harbor with agreeable winds and not
too strong. Once out I'm ok. Coming back in is the same as going out.
I need agreeable winds and have too move fast when I come into the
launch pier. I've found that when I approach the pier undoing lines
from traditional cleats on the deck is a hassle and if I'm too slow I
am drifting off into someones boat-usually bright finished. I find
that I want the rig down fast and to hell with traditional looks etc.
I have installed clam cleats so that when I approach the dock I can
drop the rig smartly and clamber aboard the dock. The only other
improvement will be some sort of boom crotch so that I can avoid being
swept off the boat. With cleats on the mast I'd have no chance.
Bob Chamberland
because I can only get out of the harbor with agreeable winds and not
too strong. Once out I'm ok. Coming back in is the same as going out.
I need agreeable winds and have too move fast when I come into the
launch pier. I've found that when I approach the pier undoing lines
from traditional cleats on the deck is a hassle and if I'm too slow I
am drifting off into someones boat-usually bright finished. I find
that I want the rig down fast and to hell with traditional looks etc.
I have installed clam cleats so that when I approach the dock I can
drop the rig smartly and clamber aboard the dock. The only other
improvement will be some sort of boom crotch so that I can avoid being
swept off the boat. With cleats on the mast I'd have no chance.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, bruce@h... wrote:
> --- "pvanderwaart" wrote:
> > Bolger has many ideas with
> > which a reasonable man might differ.
>
> In this case, he even differs with
> himself; writing that if it were
> his boat he would cleat the halyards
> at the foot of the mast, but drawing
> the boat to be built with standing
> blocks and the cleats back closer
> to the cockpit!
For deck blocks for halyards, etc., you know exactly where the line will
run, so I think you could fix the block cheeks directly to the deck. I'm
imagining a stainless shaft running thru a bunch of cheeks fastened to
the deck, with delrin or similar rollers on the shaft in between the
cheeks. Maybe you could find a plastic conveyor roller and slice it up
or plastic idler for a round belt or something. (try www.mcmaster.com or
Stock Drive Products, maybe) But I suppose it becomes a bit of a
project, maybe not worth it.
run, so I think you could fix the block cheeks directly to the deck. I'm
imagining a stainless shaft running thru a bunch of cheeks fastened to
the deck, with delrin or similar rollers on the shaft in between the
cheeks. Maybe you could find a plastic conveyor roller and slice it up
or plastic idler for a round belt or something. (try www.mcmaster.com or
Stock Drive Products, maybe) But I suppose it becomes a bit of a
project, maybe not worth it.
--- "pvanderwaart" wrote:
himself; writing that if it were
his boat he would cleat the halyards
at the foot of the mast, but drawing
the boat to be built with standing
blocks and the cleats back closer
to the cockpit!
> Bolger has many ideas withIn this case, he even differs with
> which a reasonable man might differ.
himself; writing that if it were
his boat he would cleat the halyards
at the foot of the mast, but drawing
the boat to be built with standing
blocks and the cleats back closer
to the cockpit!
> Bolger, in his write up in SBJ40Bolger has many ideas with which a reasonable man might differ. My
> suggests that he would just skip
> the deck blocks and cleat the
> halyards directly to the deck
> next to the mast.
Cynthia J was rigged with the halyards cleated in front of the mast,
and it very difficult to raise sail unless the boat was beached. It
could be hard a dock, and was downright dangerous at anchor, with the
boat yawing back and forth and the boom scissoring the crewman (that
would be ME!) in two has he stood in the forward hatch trying to
reach forward far enough to the cleats.
Peter
--- William Allen wrote:
small boat, 12'3" x 6'.
William, you must post some
pictures for us to see!
Bolger, in his write up in SBJ40
suggests that he would just skip
the deck blocks and cleat the
halyards directly to the deck
next to the mast.
http://hallman.org/sbj/40/
> I'm currently building theAlso known as "Tiny Cat" is a
> Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat.
small boat, 12'3" x 6'.
William, you must post some
pictures for us to see!
Bolger, in his write up in SBJ40
suggests that he would just skip
the deck blocks and cleat the
halyards directly to the deck
next to the mast.
http://hallman.org/sbj/40/
I just bought some stand up blocks on Ebay for about 9 bucks a piece. The seller said he had 20 more.
----- Original Message -----
From: craig o'donnell
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Running Rigging (Bobcat)
>I'm currently building the Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat. The plan
>calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
>halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
>the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
>obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
>rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden blocks
>would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more traditional
>appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Harken also makes blocks - Carbolite? - which are small and black and not
that expensive. You can affix them to the deck using Spectra line through a
hole with a toggle on the inside.. The blocks come with instructions for
doing this.
Otherwise, you do it with a block with a rope toggle.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm currently building the Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat. The planHarken also makes blocks - Carbolite? - which are small and black and not
>calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
>halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
>the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
>obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
>rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden blocks
>would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more traditional
>appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
that expensive. You can affix them to the deck using Spectra line through a
hole with a toggle on the inside.. The blocks come with instructions for
doing this.
Otherwise, you do it with a block with a rope toggle.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
Look at www.garhauer.com much cheaper than
Harken/Ronstan/etc. and a nice product. I have replaced most
of the gear on my 27' plastic boat with Garhauer stuff.
Nice flat side plates if you want to wood sheath them too.
Harken/Ronstan/etc. and a nice product. I have replaced most
of the gear on my 27' plastic boat with Garhauer stuff.
Nice flat side plates if you want to wood sheath them too.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jas_orr" <jas_orr@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 9:40 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Running Rigging (Bobcat)
> I had the same concern about cost when I rigged my Chebacco.
> However, I didn't mind the look of the steel blocks, so I shopped for
> standard parts separately rather than buy "real" stand up blocks.
> You can see what I used athttp://www.chebacco.com/under "new
> articles", "Issue 1", "a letter from Jamie", click on "mast collar"
> and scroll down until you see the blocks. They work very well -- the
> hold downs are bolted through the deck with reinforcement under, and
> would work as well with any block.
>
> The main thing is to avoid any additional friction, especially since
> you already have dumb sheaves -- I hung blocks from the mast on rope
> strops.
>
> Jamie
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "willim8585" <willim8585@y...> wrote:
> > I'm currently building the Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat. The plan
> > calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
> > halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
> > the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
> > obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
> > rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden
> blocks
> > would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more
> traditional
> > appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > William Allen
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
I had the same concern about cost when I rigged my Chebacco.
However, I didn't mind the look of the steel blocks, so I shopped for
standard parts separately rather than buy "real" stand up blocks.
You can see what I used athttp://www.chebacco.com/under "new
articles", "Issue 1", "a letter from Jamie", click on "mast collar"
and scroll down until you see the blocks. They work very well -- the
hold downs are bolted through the deck with reinforcement under, and
would work as well with any block.
The main thing is to avoid any additional friction, especially since
you already have dumb sheaves -- I hung blocks from the mast on rope
strops.
Jamie
However, I didn't mind the look of the steel blocks, so I shopped for
standard parts separately rather than buy "real" stand up blocks.
You can see what I used athttp://www.chebacco.com/under "new
articles", "Issue 1", "a letter from Jamie", click on "mast collar"
and scroll down until you see the blocks. They work very well -- the
hold downs are bolted through the deck with reinforcement under, and
would work as well with any block.
The main thing is to avoid any additional friction, especially since
you already have dumb sheaves -- I hung blocks from the mast on rope
strops.
Jamie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "willim8585" <willim8585@y...> wrote:
> I'm currently building the Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat. The plan
> calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
> halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
> the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
> obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
> rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden
blocks
> would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more
traditional
> appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> William Allen
Hi William
If you are making rope stropped blocks the stropping grommet can be worked
with an eye seized in to pass through a shackle or carabiner, and thus
attached to deck padeyes or eyebolts. A metal stropped block of the sort
shown in Bingham's 'Sailor's Sketchbook' can be similarly attached.
They may not need to be 'stand up' type blocks. Blocks without any springing
will stand up once they are loaded with line tension. A rope 'bump mat'
around the padeye on deck softens the clunk when the block drops after
tension is released. Fairly traditional.
Alternatively, you could try making rope 'springs' - forming three-strand
rope into a conical tube, and stitching the coils each to its neighbour
should work. Not traditional, but perhaps less offensive to the eye than a
metal coil-spring.
Loads on a rig as small as Bobcat's should not be very high, but it is worth
remembering that a block which turns a load through 180 degrees sees a pull
of twice the load....
cheers
Derek
If you are making rope stropped blocks the stropping grommet can be worked
with an eye seized in to pass through a shackle or carabiner, and thus
attached to deck padeyes or eyebolts. A metal stropped block of the sort
shown in Bingham's 'Sailor's Sketchbook' can be similarly attached.
They may not need to be 'stand up' type blocks. Blocks without any springing
will stand up once they are loaded with line tension. A rope 'bump mat'
around the padeye on deck softens the clunk when the block drops after
tension is released. Fairly traditional.
Alternatively, you could try making rope 'springs' - forming three-strand
rope into a conical tube, and stitching the coils each to its neighbour
should work. Not traditional, but perhaps less offensive to the eye than a
metal coil-spring.
Loads on a rig as small as Bobcat's should not be very high, but it is worth
remembering that a block which turns a load through 180 degrees sees a pull
of twice the load....
cheers
Derek
I don't have better numbers, but the stress on the halyards would be a
function of the tension you want on the luff. The halyard and downhaul work
against each other on the sail, but they work together on your anchor strip.
We probably both weigh more than 90 lbs, but, in the interest of not having
to repair it later, consider if it were affixed to the overhead and you were
swinging on the line(s). Would you be comfortable with a few #10 screws as
opposed to 1/4-20 SS carriage bolts?
I don't know the failure mode for the Lexan, but many ropes lose strength
when left in the sun too long.
Would paint stick to the Lexan?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
function of the tension you want on the luff. The halyard and downhaul work
against each other on the sail, but they work together on your anchor strip.
We probably both weigh more than 90 lbs, but, in the interest of not having
to repair it later, consider if it were affixed to the overhead and you were
swinging on the line(s). Would you be comfortable with a few #10 screws as
opposed to 1/4-20 SS carriage bolts?
I don't know the failure mode for the Lexan, but many ropes lose strength
when left in the sun too long.
Would paint stick to the Lexan?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <bruce@...>
> --- "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
> > The loads from wind gusts could be
> > quite significant
>
> These deck blocks are for the halyards,
> topping lifts, reefing lines, and down
> haul... as opposed to the sheets. It
> is the sheets that would experience
> most of the increased load from gusts.
>
> What is the rule of thumb? A pound a
> square foot? In that case the main
> sheet on a Micro Navigator might feel
> 90 pounds of tension. Not that much!
>
> Polycarbonate seems to be rated as UV
> resistant on one side only. What does
> UV do to polycarbonate, fogging? or
> weakening? [or both?]
>
> Eventually, "some day soon" I plan on
> putting a cut-to-fit tarp cover on the boat
> between uses, so UV degration should be
> negligible.
--- "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
topping lifts, reefing lines, and down
haul... as opposed to the sheets. It
is the sheets that would experience
most of the increased load from gusts.
What is the rule of thumb? A pound a
square foot? In that case the main
sheet on a Micro Navigator might feel
90 pounds of tension. Not that much!
Polycarbonate seems to be rated as UV
resistant on one side only. What does
UV do to polycarbonate, fogging? or
weakening? [or both?]
Eventually, "some day soon" I plan on
putting a cut-to-fit tarp cover on the boat
between uses, so UV degration should be
negligible.
> The loads from wind gusts could beThese deck blocks are for the halyards,
> quite significant
topping lifts, reefing lines, and down
haul... as opposed to the sheets. It
is the sheets that would experience
most of the increased load from gusts.
What is the rule of thumb? A pound a
square foot? In that case the main
sheet on a Micro Navigator might feel
90 pounds of tension. Not that much!
Polycarbonate seems to be rated as UV
resistant on one side only. What does
UV do to polycarbonate, fogging? or
weakening? [or both?]
Eventually, "some day soon" I plan on
putting a cut-to-fit tarp cover on the boat
between uses, so UV degration should be
negligible.
I'd suggest that you might consider through-bolts and a backing block for
attaching the "stringer" to the deck. The loads from wind gusts could be
quite significant and the screws let in moisture that will lessen their
hold.
The rope strops and "bent polycarbonate" cheek blocks seem like a fine idea
unless there is a probability of UV degradation.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
attaching the "stringer" to the deck. The loads from wind gusts could be
quite significant and the screws let in moisture that will lessen their
hold.
The rope strops and "bent polycarbonate" cheek blocks seem like a fine idea
unless there is a probability of UV degradation.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
<snip>
> I chose to make a stringer
> of wood, and used a rope
> wound spirally through
> each block, and around
> the stringer. I then
> epoxied and screwed the
> stringer to the deck.
--- willim8585 wrote:
way to skin a (bob)cat.
I had a similar need to
fasten homemade blocks
to the deck of my Micro
Navigator.
I chose to make a stringer
of wood, and used a rope
wound spirally through
each block, and around
the stringer. I then
epoxied and screwed the
stringer to the deck.
This has the advantage
that each block can swing
and rotate as needed...
plus it was cheap.
This picture might make
my explanation clearer.
http://tinyurl.com/2kcng
I used bent polycarbonate
instead of wood for the
cheeks of the blocks because
it was easier/cheaper and
seems plenty strong.
> but i don't know howThere is more than one
> these wooden blocks
> would be attached to
> the deck?
way to skin a (bob)cat.
I had a similar need to
fasten homemade blocks
to the deck of my Micro
Navigator.
I chose to make a stringer
of wood, and used a rope
wound spirally through
each block, and around
the stringer. I then
epoxied and screwed the
stringer to the deck.
This has the advantage
that each block can swing
and rotate as needed...
plus it was cheap.
This picture might make
my explanation clearer.
http://tinyurl.com/2kcng
I used bent polycarbonate
instead of wood for the
cheeks of the blocks because
it was easier/cheaper and
seems plenty strong.
Ronstan blocks are quite a bit cheaper than the Harken blocks,
unfortunately if you don't like the looks of the Harkens you probably
wont like the looks of the Ronstan blocks. I would suggest that you
might want to try and fake it. It would be fairly straightforward to
add wooden sides to the Ronstan blocks using scraps of hardwood and
epoxying them to the aluminum blocks.
Bob Chamberland-
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "willim8585" <willim8585@y...> wrote:
unfortunately if you don't like the looks of the Harkens you probably
wont like the looks of the Ronstan blocks. I would suggest that you
might want to try and fake it. It would be fairly straightforward to
add wooden sides to the Ronstan blocks using scraps of hardwood and
epoxying them to the aluminum blocks.
Bob Chamberland-
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "willim8585" <willim8585@y...> wrote:
> I'm currently building the Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat. The plan
> calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
> halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
> the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
> obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
> rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden blocks
> would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more traditional
> appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> William Allen
I'm currently building the Bolger/Payson Catboat Bobcat. The plan
calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden blocks
would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more traditional
appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
William Allen
calls for three "standup" blocks on deck near the mast for the
halyards that run through dumb sheaves on the mast. I've looked at
the harken stand up blocks with the springs, and besides being
obscenely expensive, i don't really like the way they look. I'd
rather build wooden blocks, but i don't know how these wooden blocks
would be attached to the deck? I'm working towards a more traditional
appearance. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
William Allen