Re: Sketching on an Idaho
Last summer John covered the centreboard hole with a very nice patch
put on with 3m5200. He also added two long skids of 2x2 material to
compensate for side drift etc. I used the Turtle for several days
under normal and windy conditions. It handled like dream and proved
the centreboard was not necessary if you have some keel which can also
serve as protective bottom skids. regards Paul McLellan
'''Subject: Re: Sketching on an Idaho
Yes I had found Turtle including what I believe is an older photo of
her with a blue hull, and some interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk to flooding the cabin.
put on with 3m5200. He also added two long skids of 2x2 material to
compensate for side drift etc. I used the Turtle for several days
under normal and windy conditions. It handled like dream and proved
the centreboard was not necessary if you have some keel which can also
serve as protective bottom skids. regards Paul McLellan
'''Subject: Re: Sketching on an Idaho
Yes I had found Turtle including what I believe is an older photo of
her with a blue hull, and some interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk to flooding the cabin.
>about
> Especially given the height, it will be important to stay in
> protected waters with this boat. I'm starting to get excited
> starting this project.Bolger also said you could use the clam skiff cabin top on Idaho to
have the sliding board in the center for a stand up center area.
Otherwise cabin is about 4'-10' in the center.
Charles
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
a tendency to skid in sharp turns at higher speeds making them prone
to tripping. The centerboard helps control the skid and helps with
the yawing that can take place in big head seas.
underway, but great for close in handling.
saver(face-saver?) in marinas where one has to manouver at slow speed
through a labyrinth of boat jammed quays.On perfectly calm days this
is a non-event,but throw in a nice cross wind and soon the boat is
weaving all over the place,the helmsman spinning the wheel like a man
possessed while ramming the shifter/throttle back and forth in a vain
attempt to get his boat to "go straight!" Just spend some time on a
breezy day at your local marina and watch the panic parties racing up
and down the docks to fend off another boat attempting to leave or
enter.
With the nice big flat sides of these"cruising power sharpies" acting
as a sail,combined with virtually zero draft up forward and
relatively light weight,a centerboard is a most welcomed low-tech
solution.Added to this is a superior range of sealants/adhesives
which make traditional leeky spots(like a centerboard case) really a
thing of the past.Besides,with the plywood construction specified,you
should experience no swelling at all of a properly sealed and
fastened centerboard case.
And as if that weren't enough,they also make for excellent low speed
depth sounders and a picnic anchor(or spud,as Bolger calls them)
whereby you simply lower the board into some soft sand or mud,in your
favorite protected water cove and crack open a cold one while
planning your next move :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who can't wait to give Windermeres centerboard a good
work out,one day,along the shores of the St.Lawrence........
> The reason for the centerboard on the Idaho, Wyo, Sneakeasy, etc.Is to help control the boat in head seas or in a turn. Sharpies have
a tendency to skid in sharp turns at higher speeds making them prone
to tripping. The centerboard helps control the skid and helps with
the yawing that can take place in big head seas.
>provide lateral forces. A bow thruster would not be effective
> You should either have the centerboard or a long shoe or runners to
underway, but great for close in handling.
>Just to add to Jeffs excellent points,the centerboard is also a life
saver(face-saver?) in marinas where one has to manouver at slow speed
through a labyrinth of boat jammed quays.On perfectly calm days this
is a non-event,but throw in a nice cross wind and soon the boat is
weaving all over the place,the helmsman spinning the wheel like a man
possessed while ramming the shifter/throttle back and forth in a vain
attempt to get his boat to "go straight!" Just spend some time on a
breezy day at your local marina and watch the panic parties racing up
and down the docks to fend off another boat attempting to leave or
enter.
With the nice big flat sides of these"cruising power sharpies" acting
as a sail,combined with virtually zero draft up forward and
relatively light weight,a centerboard is a most welcomed low-tech
solution.Added to this is a superior range of sealants/adhesives
which make traditional leeky spots(like a centerboard case) really a
thing of the past.Besides,with the plywood construction specified,you
should experience no swelling at all of a properly sealed and
fastened centerboard case.
And as if that weren't enough,they also make for excellent low speed
depth sounders and a picnic anchor(or spud,as Bolger calls them)
whereby you simply lower the board into some soft sand or mud,in your
favorite protected water cove and crack open a cold one while
planning your next move :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who can't wait to give Windermeres centerboard a good
work out,one day,along the shores of the St.Lawrence........
The reason for the centerboard on the Idaho, Wyo, Sneakeasy, etc. Is to help control the boat in head seas or in a turn. Sharpies have a tendency to skid in sharp turns at higher speeds making them prone to tripping. The centerboard helps control the skid and helps with the yawing that can take place in big head seas.
You should either have the centerboard or a long shoe or runners to provide lateral forces. A bow thruster would not be effective underway, but great for close in handling.
Jeff
You should either have the centerboard or a long shoe or runners to provide lateral forces. A bow thruster would not be effective underway, but great for close in handling.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: donschultz8275
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:21 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sketching on an Idaho
Yes I had found Turtle including what I believe is an older photo of
her with a blue hull, and some interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk to flooding the cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
> Don,
>
> Have you seen John Bartlets's sharpie cruise "Turtle", which was
> definitely inspired by Idaho. It was at the Kingston Messabout last
> year, and may be again this year.
>
>http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/turtle.htm
>
> Not dissimilar to what you're aiming for.
>
> Bruce Hector
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes I had found Turtle including what I believe is an older photo of
her with a blue hull, and some interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk to flooding the cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
her with a blue hull, and some interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk to flooding the cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
> Don,
>
> Have you seen John Bartlets's sharpie cruise "Turtle", which was
> definitely inspired by Idaho. It was at the Kingston Messabout last
> year, and may be again this year.
>
>http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/turtle.htm
>
> Not dissimilar to what you're aiming for.
>
> Bruce Hector
Don,
Have you seen John Bartlets's sharpie cruise "Turtle", which was
definitely inspired by Idaho. It was at the Kingston Messabout last
year, and may be again this year.
http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/turtle.htm
Not dissimilar to what you're aiming for.
Bruce Hector
Have you seen John Bartlets's sharpie cruise "Turtle", which was
definitely inspired by Idaho. It was at the Kingston Messabout last
year, and may be again this year.
http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/turtle.htm
Not dissimilar to what you're aiming for.
Bruce Hector
I further refined the sketch. Leaving Bolger's design as is below
the gunwales, and using light ply for the structure should keep the
completed weight close to the original, except for the addition of
the shoe to the bottom. I expect the shoe to have no bad effects at
all to anything except trailer weight.
Especially given the height, it will be important to stay in
protected waters with this boat. I'm starting to get excited about
starting this project.
I'll print a number of the pics w/o the black filling the hull. This
will let me mess-around with paint schemes.
Anybody know if PB&F sells study plans?
the gunwales, and using light ply for the structure should keep the
completed weight close to the original, except for the addition of
the shoe to the bottom. I expect the shoe to have no bad effects at
all to anything except trailer weight.
Especially given the height, it will be important to stay in
protected waters with this boat. I'm starting to get excited about
starting this project.
I'll print a number of the pics w/o the black filling the hull. This
will let me mess-around with paint schemes.
Anybody know if PB&F sells study plans?
Bruce,
Thanks for the feedback and encouragment. I also had thought of
screens, and possibly weather canvas inside of the screens. I would
likely do the "roof" in foam/glass sandwich to keep the weight down.
IMO this will much more likely be Idaho than Minnesota simply because
I want it done so I can use it. As shallow as Idaho is I see little
need for a dingy, but if I change my mind, I would use the outhouse
and back of the main cabin to support it.
Being something of a geek, I've already got an older laptop to
dedicate to the boat, as moving map display for the GPS, USB cameras
to keep tabs on the motor and traffic behind the outhouse, and remote
engine instruments. A wiring saver.
I printed my sketch, compared it to the Bolger original, noting
profiles and position of the bulkheads. I may use the technique a
fellow here on this bbs is using to build Wyoming, completing
sections with simple mods to bond them together and finish paint the
boat in one piece. I could break the Idaho into 3 pieces, but 2
would be adequate. This can be done for a very small weight penalty.
Idaho is also simple enough to permit doing a bunch of work flat,
including the bulkheads at 1/2 height then going 3D in one long day.
It may be easier to keep the boat straight this way also. I intend
to build with the stern in the garage on the reasonably flat floor,
and hanging the bow out in space in front of the garage.
I'm thinking to glue and screw the bottom and sides to internal chine
logs in the first 8-12 feet or so, then tack and tape the outside
forward from there, adding the chine log sections in a way that will
not deform the profile created by the carefully cut plywood. Then
flip it, glass the bottom, add the shoe, glass the shoe, paint the
bottom, flip it upright, and get to work on the cabins, decking
finish and systems.
Thanks for the feedback and encouragment. I also had thought of
screens, and possibly weather canvas inside of the screens. I would
likely do the "roof" in foam/glass sandwich to keep the weight down.
IMO this will much more likely be Idaho than Minnesota simply because
I want it done so I can use it. As shallow as Idaho is I see little
need for a dingy, but if I change my mind, I would use the outhouse
and back of the main cabin to support it.
Being something of a geek, I've already got an older laptop to
dedicate to the boat, as moving map display for the GPS, USB cameras
to keep tabs on the motor and traffic behind the outhouse, and remote
engine instruments. A wiring saver.
I printed my sketch, compared it to the Bolger original, noting
profiles and position of the bulkheads. I may use the technique a
fellow here on this bbs is using to build Wyoming, completing
sections with simple mods to bond them together and finish paint the
boat in one piece. I could break the Idaho into 3 pieces, but 2
would be adequate. This can be done for a very small weight penalty.
Idaho is also simple enough to permit doing a bunch of work flat,
including the bulkheads at 1/2 height then going 3D in one long day.
It may be easier to keep the boat straight this way also. I intend
to build with the stern in the garage on the reasonably flat floor,
and hanging the bow out in space in front of the garage.
I'm thinking to glue and screw the bottom and sides to internal chine
logs in the first 8-12 feet or so, then tack and tape the outside
forward from there, adding the chine log sections in a way that will
not deform the profile created by the carefully cut plywood. Then
flip it, glass the bottom, add the shoe, glass the shoe, paint the
bottom, flip it upright, and get to work on the cabins, decking
finish and systems.
Bruce,
Thanks for the feedback and encouragment. I also had thought of
screens, and possibly weather canvas inside of the screens. I would
likely do the "roof" in foam/glass sandwich to keep the weight down.
IMO this will much more likely be Idaho than Minnesota simply because
I want it done so I can use it. As shallow as Idaho is I see little
need for a dingy, but if I change my mind, I would use the outhouse
and back of the main cabin to support it.
Being something of a geek, I've already got an older laptop to
dedicate to the boat, as moving map display for the GPS, USB cameras
to keep tabs on the motor and traffic behind the outhouse, and remote
engine instruments. A wiring saver.
I printed my sketch, compared it to the Bolger original, noting
profiles and position of the bulkheads. I may use the technique a
fellow here on this bbs is using to build Wyoming, completing
sections with simple mods to bond them together and finish paint the
boat in one piece. I could break the Idaho into 3 pieces, but 2
would be adequate. This can be done for a very small weight penalty.
Idaho is also simple enough to permit doing a bunch of work flat,
including the bulkheads at 1/2 height then going 3D in one long day.
It may be easier to keep the boat straight this way also. I intend
to build with the stern in the garage on the reasonably flat floor,
and hanging the bow out in space in front of the garage.
I'm thinking to glue and screw the bottom and sides to internal chine
logs in the first 8-12 feet or so, then tack and tape the outside
forward from there, adding the chine log sections in a way that will
not deform the profile created by the carefully cut plywood. Then
flip it, glass the bottom, add the shoe, glass the shoe, paint the
bottom, flip it upright, and get to work on the cabins, decking
finish and systems.
Thanks for the feedback and encouragment. I also had thought of
screens, and possibly weather canvas inside of the screens. I would
likely do the "roof" in foam/glass sandwich to keep the weight down.
IMO this will much more likely be Idaho than Minnesota simply because
I want it done so I can use it. As shallow as Idaho is I see little
need for a dingy, but if I change my mind, I would use the outhouse
and back of the main cabin to support it.
Being something of a geek, I've already got an older laptop to
dedicate to the boat, as moving map display for the GPS, USB cameras
to keep tabs on the motor and traffic behind the outhouse, and remote
engine instruments. A wiring saver.
I printed my sketch, compared it to the Bolger original, noting
profiles and position of the bulkheads. I may use the technique a
fellow here on this bbs is using to build Wyoming, completing
sections with simple mods to bond them together and finish paint the
boat in one piece. I could break the Idaho into 3 pieces, but 2
would be adequate. This can be done for a very small weight penalty.
Idaho is also simple enough to permit doing a bunch of work flat,
including the bulkheads at 1/2 height then going 3D in one long day.
It may be easier to keep the boat straight this way also. I intend
to build with the stern in the garage on the reasonably flat floor,
and hanging the bow out in space in front of the garage.
I'm thinking to glue and screw the bottom and sides to internal chine
logs in the first 8-12 feet or so, then tack and tape the outside
forward from there, adding the chine log sections in a way that will
not deform the profile created by the carefully cut plywood. Then
flip it, glass the bottom, add the shoe, glass the shoe, paint the
bottom, flip it upright, and get to work on the cabins, decking
finish and systems.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote: "I've used MSPAINT to modify an Idaho pic with the alternate
you've added almost no weight and kept the simple, good looks
essential to this design.
"I especially like the "outhouse" concept, and
evening "marina cruises" without needing to share my beverage with the
mosquitos.
"There would be an opening, perhaps with a hinged panel to access the
keep your batteries charged. Up at the helm you'll need a "motor
running" light on the dash, caise' you sure won't hear it.
"I may yet opt to just go ahead an build the Minnesota, but it is
along at 6 or 7 knots. Bolger said himself that he thought it was
overpowered as designed. Both the Champlain and Turtle Sharpie at the
Kgtn Messabout last year got around just fine with only 9.9s.
"I would like the 1' additional beam Minnesota has,"
Build one. If you like Idaho, you'll love Minnie. Why make a silk
purse out of a sow's ear, when you can have the purse from the start.
"One other thing I would add w' the designer's input is the
bottom "shoe" typical of the Clam Skiff and other designs."
Strength from extra ply on the bottom won't hurt performance, will add
stability and the shoe dramaticly helps tracking. Well advised on any
power sharpie.
Bruce Hector
Who'd drive a long way to see either, better yet, bring it to the
Kingston Messabout. Especially the Idaho, which would go together
quickly with it's minimum interir joinery.
wrote: "I've used MSPAINT to modify an Idaho pic with the alternate
> structure."What a wonderful mod. In Idaho, keeping it light is critical, and
you've added almost no weight and kept the simple, good looks
essential to this design.
"I especially like the "outhouse" concept, and
> the semi enclosed area"Me too, I'd add roll down screening, and create a great place for
evening "marina cruises" without needing to share my beverage with the
mosquitos.
"There would be an opening, perhaps with a hinged panel to access the
> fuel tanks, unless I go 4 stroke"Go four stroke, even a 9,9 with a generator will drive this well, and
keep your batteries charged. Up at the helm you'll need a "motor
running" light on the dash, caise' you sure won't hear it.
"I may yet opt to just go ahead an build the Minnesota, but it is
> designed for 140hp, and I'm thinking 25hp."A Minnie would drive well with a 25, heck even a 9.9 would move it
along at 6 or 7 knots. Bolger said himself that he thought it was
overpowered as designed. Both the Champlain and Turtle Sharpie at the
Kgtn Messabout last year got around just fine with only 9.9s.
"I would like the 1' additional beam Minnesota has,"
Build one. If you like Idaho, you'll love Minnie. Why make a silk
purse out of a sow's ear, when you can have the purse from the start.
"One other thing I would add w' the designer's input is the
bottom "shoe" typical of the Clam Skiff and other designs."
Strength from extra ply on the bottom won't hurt performance, will add
stability and the shoe dramaticly helps tracking. Well advised on any
power sharpie.
Bruce Hector
Who'd drive a long way to see either, better yet, bring it to the
Kingston Messabout. Especially the Idaho, which would go together
quickly with it's minimum interir joinery.
> One other thing I would add w' the designer's input is theI asked those questions and Mr. Bolger said that the shoe would work
> bottom "shoe" typical of the Clam Skiff and other designs. Bolger
> says he would add this to Minnesota today so I would ask him about
> doing it on Idaho. Frankly I would like to have the extra beef on
> the bottom.
well on the Idaho. He also said the Clam Skiff type transom could be
used if desired. He said that he had always liked the Idaho design
and would like to see more of them built.
I think he thought 140hp was excessive for Minn. but what the
builder wanted? It would not take much hp. for hull speed. <25.
Charles
I've used MSPAINT to modify an Idaho pic with the alternate
structure. My sketch is the 58th in Bolger1's pictures folder.
I've been considering building an Idaho, but I don't much care for
the "glass house" superstructure. My first thought was something
more like Tennessee, and/or Turtle, but then I saw Bolger's Minnesota
which I find handsome. I especially like the "outhouse" concept, and
the semi enclosed area between the main cabin and the outhouse.
There would be an opening, perhaps with a hinged panel to access the
fuel tanks, unless I go 4 stroke and just have external fillers on
the tail.
Where it looks like there would be a V berth under the foredeck, will
be a single bunk. I'm thinking solo for this boat. I could keep the
cushions for a 2nd berth on the deck per Bolger's notes and typical
economy of design.
I may yet opt to just go ahead an build the Minnesota, but it is
designed for 140hp, and I'm thinking 25hp. Not sure I need to be
building a 140hp boat to carry a 25hp motor. I would like the 1'
additional beam Minnesota has, but the Idaho is adequate to what I
need.
One other thing I would add w' the designer's input is the
bottom "shoe" typical of the Clam Skiff and other designs. Bolger
says he would add this to Minnesota today so I would ask him about
doing it on Idaho. Frankly I would like to have the extra beef on
the bottom.
structure. My sketch is the 58th in Bolger1's pictures folder.
I've been considering building an Idaho, but I don't much care for
the "glass house" superstructure. My first thought was something
more like Tennessee, and/or Turtle, but then I saw Bolger's Minnesota
which I find handsome. I especially like the "outhouse" concept, and
the semi enclosed area between the main cabin and the outhouse.
There would be an opening, perhaps with a hinged panel to access the
fuel tanks, unless I go 4 stroke and just have external fillers on
the tail.
Where it looks like there would be a V berth under the foredeck, will
be a single bunk. I'm thinking solo for this boat. I could keep the
cushions for a 2nd berth on the deck per Bolger's notes and typical
economy of design.
I may yet opt to just go ahead an build the Minnesota, but it is
designed for 140hp, and I'm thinking 25hp. Not sure I need to be
building a 140hp boat to carry a 25hp motor. I would like the 1'
additional beam Minnesota has, but the Idaho is adequate to what I
need.
One other thing I would add w' the designer's input is the
bottom "shoe" typical of the Clam Skiff and other designs. Bolger
says he would add this to Minnesota today so I would ask him about
doing it on Idaho. Frankly I would like to have the extra beef on
the bottom.