Re: [bolger] Gypsy (sails and flotation) website (unfinished)

Hello all and thanks for your previous answers!
Very interesting the tyvek thing. I will take a look. In the meantime I
found an old sail that will be reformed to meet Gypsy sizes for 170 pesos
(u$s 57) I hope this would be good enaugh.

Please, take a look to some photos of the construction process of my friend
Gypsy, and don t hesitate to tell me about any error or suggestion. Thanks,
regards, Maximo.

http://www.promax.com.ar/gypsy
I wasn't complaining about you, it's the "Sailing Guide" person who's
displaying one of my pages in a frame on his page. bad form, I'd say...
<harumph>

On Thu, 13 May 2004 14:25:36 -0000, CJ Matt wrote:
> Actually, I wasn't trying to imply it was mine at all. I just wanted
> to put out there that Tyvek was an option and there was a web page
> about it. I noticed also, that the link I provided didn't work
> either, so thank you for providing a new one.
> ...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
After all, all he did was string together a lot of old,
well-known quotations. <H. L. Mencken on Shakespeare>
I fully endorse the Bohndell sprit boom sail from Harold Payson. It's the
perfect shape for Gypsy and June Bug. It draws beautifully and seems to
maximize the performance of boats that are designed to skim over the surface
like so many of the Instant boat fleet. I have a nearly identical sail made
by a local sail maker. It's also beautifully made, but the older, more
weather-worn Bohndell still out performs it. The Bohndell seems to have a
bit more camber. Maybe the Bohndell folk have Bolger's very lively yet
stable little jewels in mind when they make them.

jeb, aquivver with excited anticipation as Teah McGee nears launch readiness
on the blooming shores of Fundy






>
Actually, I wasn't trying to imply it was mine at all. I just wanted
to put out there that Tyvek was an option and there was a web page
about it. I noticed also, that the link I provided didn't work
either, so thank you for providing a new one.

I am not the kind of person who would take credit for somone elses
work, and obviously the guy who made that page did a lot of work. The
guy actually has a pretty elaborate web site with all kinds of
information about sailing. Tyvek is just one of his topics.

See you on the water,

Cj Matt


--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> I hate it when people do that! It's quite impolite to display
somebody
> else's page in one's own page, as if it belongs there. <harumph>
Try this:
>
> http://www.boat-links.com/Tyvek/
>
> On Tue, 11 May 2004 20:03:04 -0000, Cj Matt wrote:
> > Try tyvek. It is very cheap and you can get it for free at
> > construction sites where they are building new homes. It is the
same
> > material that is used in hazmat suits...very tuff stuff, but light
> > wieght and reinforced with string just like polytarp.
> >
> > here is a web site that discusses it:
> > http://sailing.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?
site=http://www.boat%
> > 2Dlinks.com/Tyvek/
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
> http://www.boat-links.com/
> A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
> <William Burroughs>
I hate it when people do that! It's quite impolite to display somebody
else's page in one's own page, as if it belongs there. <harumph> Try this:

http://www.boat-links.com/Tyvek/

On Tue, 11 May 2004 20:03:04 -0000, Cj Matt wrote:
> Try tyvek. It is very cheap and you can get it for free at
> construction sites where they are building new homes. It is the same
> material that is used in hazmat suits...very tuff stuff, but light
> wieght and reinforced with string just like polytarp.
>
> here is a web site that discusses it:
> http://sailing.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.boat%
> 2Dlinks.com/Tyvek/

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
<William Burroughs>
Use 1L water bottles for flotation. Screw the caps on tightly and place
them under the decks or seats. Mesh webbing can hold them in place.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
>Perhaps not a bedsheet. For a sail you want something that's not porous,
>that the air cannot pass through. It also should be something that doesn't
>stretch very much either. I'll endorse the idea that tyvek mightbe ok, as is
>the ubiquitous polyethylene blue tarp. However, with Gypsy you can buy the
>best deal for a real sail on the market. Dynamite Payson will sell you a
>real sail made by Bohndell sailmakers up in Maine for $179 plus S/H. And
>that is truly a deal in my book.

Sun-resistant canvas such as that sold for awnings and patio shades will
work well. But under $200 US is a steal for a sail.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
Probably not as much as you think for shipping. What's a sail like that
weigh? Seven or eight pounds?

The issue may be more that of exchange rates and import duties. If he was in
Europe, the favorable euro-dollar exchange may have made cancelled out any
taxes owed.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Gypsy (sails and flotation)


> --- John Bell wrote:
> > for $179 plus S/H.
>
> I wonder how much shipping might
> costs to Maximo in Argentina?
>
> Regarding floatation, John Garber
> made his 150 mile passage along the
> Atlantic Coast of Maine in 1985, in his
> Gypsy Girl. [which has no added flotation]
> There is a spectacular write up of his adventure
> in the Small Boat Journal 1985 vols 40/41/42.
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
--- John Bell wrote:
> for $179 plus S/H.

I wonder how much shipping might
costs to Maximo in Argentina?

Regarding floatation, John Garber
made his 150 mile passage along the
Atlantic Coast of Maine in 1985, in his
Gypsy Girl. [which has no added flotation]
There is a spectacular write up of his adventure
in the Small Boat Journal 1985 vols 40/41/42.
Perhaps not a bedsheet. For a sail you want something that's not porous,
that the air cannot pass through. It also should be something that doesn't
stretch very much either. I'll endorse the idea that tyvek mightbe ok, as is
the ubiquitous polyethylene blue tarp. However, with Gypsy you can buy the
best deal for a real sail on the market. Dynamite Payson will sell you a
real sail made by Bohndell sailmakers up in Maine for $179 plus S/H. And
that is truly a deal in my book.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Gypsy (sails and flotation)


> Hi Maximo,
>
> That 59 square foot sail could be made of anything if
> saving money is important such as a bedsheet or
> aplastic rain tarp.
>
Try tyvek. It is very cheap and you can get it for free at
construction sites where they are building new homes. It is the same
material that is used in hazmat suits...very tuff stuff, but light
wieght and reinforced with string just like polytarp.

here is a web site that discusses it:
http://sailing.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.boat%
2Dlinks.com/Tyvek/

So here is a cheap and easy way to make a sail.

Cj Matt
-


-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Hi Maximo,
>
> That 59 square foot sail could be made of anything if
> saving money is important such as a bedsheet or
> aplastic rain tarp.
>
> You could use air sealed buoyancy chambers for
> floatation.
>
> http://hallman.org/SBJ/56/gypsy.gif
>
> ...shows an review of sailing Gypsy
> written by Dan Segal who tested the
> prototype.
>
> --- Maximo Pieretti wrote:
> > Hello all! We are finishing my friend Gypsy. I will
> > publish some photos of
> > the process in a few weeks.
> >
> > I would like to know what kind of cloth could I use
> > for inexpensive sails?
> > Also for flotation, do you have any inexpensive tip?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Máximo.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> > flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> > thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> > and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:
> > bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
Hi Maximo,

That 59 square foot sail could be made of anything if
saving money is important such as a bedsheet or
aplastic rain tarp.

You could use air sealed buoyancy chambers for
floatation.

http://hallman.org/SBJ/56/gypsy.gif

...shows an review of sailing Gypsy
written by Dan Segal who tested the
prototype.

--- Maximo Pieretti wrote:
> Hello all! We are finishing my friend Gypsy. I will
> publish some photos of
> the process in a few weeks.
>
> I would like to know what kind of cloth could I use
> for inexpensive sails?
> Also for flotation, do you have any inexpensive tip?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, M�ximo.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Hello all! We are finishing my friend Gypsy. I will publish some photos of
the process in a few weeks.

I would like to know what kind of cloth could I use for inexpensive sails?
Also for flotation, do you have any inexpensive tip?

Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Máximo.
I'm sure Nymph needs only 6mm wood. The panels are narrow and very
curvy, so they don't need to be thick to support your weight. I'm 215
lbs (98 kilos) on a bad day, and I haven't noticed any flex on ours. I'm
guessing it's 6mm, as that's commonly sold as 1/4" around here, but I've
never measured. If you are just going to row, I think Nymph might take 2
tall and heavy guys ok, but I'm not so sure about sailing. Someone else
mentioned Rubens Nymph, which as I recall is just Nymph with a 12" wider
center section, so you could always make the center section a bit wider
for more displacement.

For water resistant glue, I've had good luck with polyurethane glue,
such as the Polyurethane glue that comes under ELmer's ProBond brand
name. But be careful as there are other kinds of glue with that brand
name. It's still toxic, so you have to be careful not to get any on you,
even if it doesn't smell bad. Where did you say you were from? Are you
sure you can't get any inexpensive epoxy? Here in the USA, there are
brands which are much cheaper than the widely marketed West brand. It
takes a bit more work to find out what they are. My favorite may be
found at www.raka.com. An older boat (and airplane) glue is Resorcinol,
which is supposed to be very good, but discolors the wood and, to tell
the truth, I don't know how much of a hassle it is to work with. Also, I
think you're supposed to make every joint fit well. For the glassed
joints on Nymph and Gypsy, you really ought to get epoxy. Some people
get away with polyester resin, but a lot of people have trouble with it,
too.

>Maximo Pieretti wrote:
>
snip

>a) Both gypsy and nymph needs 1/4" plywood. This is 6,35 mm. In my country
>there is 6 or 8 mm. plywood. The logical and most similar choice would be 6
>mm. But I am very tall and heavy man, and my friend too. I would prefer 8
>mm. Do you think this would be a problem? Do the 8 mm. plywood curve for
>these design? Would they be very heavy?
>
>b) I can not get "bronze ring nails". Wich should i use to replace them? I
>can get smooth-wire copper nails, normal steel nails, steel with a "bronze
>bath" nails, galvanized steel nails.
>
>c) I can not get "Weldwood" or "Elmer dry power" glue. Epoxy resin is very
>good, but expensive and difficult to prepare each time small quantity...What
>other water resistant glue could i use?
>
>Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Máximo.
>
Maximo,

I built a nymph to the design spec's last year - couple of toughts.

1. 6mm ply will be fine. Once you fiberglass the hull it will be
strong enough.
2. If you are both big, make the Ruben's nymph. All this does is
add one foot to the width on the bottom. The nymph will sail one
adult and one child comfortably but you will be happy with the
increased space otherwise.
3. Forget the nails. Putting small nails into plywood won't hold it
together for the tight bends required on the Nymph. Use removable
blocks and screws instead. Fiberglass around the blocks and then
remove. Finish fiberglassing then.

Also, a couple of things I would change if I was doing it again.

1. Make the last frame and first frame full across the boat. Then
deck over the areas for floatation/storage. I dumped my nymph in the
middle of a deserted lake last year. There is no way to self rescue
as designed. The rail will sit even with the water if it is full of
water. Not a fun hour swimming back to shore.
2. Make the center frame temporary - for construction only. The
center seat is fine for rowing but uncomfortable for any length of
time. Once you fiberglass the seams, mount the gunnels and then
remove the center frame. This will open up the interior of the boat
quite a bit. You can build a rowing seat like they have for Teal.

Other than that, the little boat is great. My kids love taking it
out on their own.

I wish you luck. Mail me if you have any questions.

Doug

> a) Both gypsy and nymph needs 1/4" plywood. This is 6,35 mm. In my
country
> there is 6 or 8 mm. plywood. The logical and most similar choice
would be 6
> mm. But I am very tall and heavy man, and my friend too. I would
prefer 8
> mm. Do you think this would be a problem? Do the 8 mm. plywood
curve for
> these design? Would they be very heavy?
>
> b) I can not get "bronze ring nails". Wich should i use to replace
them? I
> can get smooth-wire copper nails, normal steel nails, steel with
a "bronze
> bath" nails, galvanized steel nails.
Máximo.
--- Maximo Pieretti wrote:
> Idaho

Maximo, please get along building
your Idaho, I want to see pictures!

> a) Both gypsy and nymph
> 6 or 8 mm. plywood.

My opinion, is that you will
prefer your boat to be lighter
weight, and 6mm would be the
best choice.

> b) I can not get "bronze ring nails".

Any nails will work, choose the ones
that you can afford, but which will
rust the least.

Silicon Bronze ring nails are used
because they don't rust, and are soft
enough that they won't ruin your
best chisel or plane when you accidentally
hit one.

> c) I can not get "Weldwood" or
> "Elmer dry power" glue.

The truth is that those two
glues are obsolete in USA now,
but they were 'the best' twenty
years ago when that book was
written.

You want good glue. Ask around
with carpenters and see what they
use and consider to the "best".

I really like epoxy! You won't
need that much for a Nymph or a
Gypsy.
Hello: I can not start building my own Idaho yet. In the meantime I will
help a friend to build Gypsy and Nymph from Payson s book so I will get some
expertice for free and he will get some help for free!

I have a few questions for you:

a) Both gypsy and nymph needs 1/4" plywood. This is 6,35 mm. In my country
there is 6 or 8 mm. plywood. The logical and most similar choice would be 6
mm. But I am very tall and heavy man, and my friend too. I would prefer 8
mm. Do you think this would be a problem? Do the 8 mm. plywood curve for
these design? Would they be very heavy?

b) I can not get "bronze ring nails". Wich should i use to replace them? I
can get smooth-wire copper nails, normal steel nails, steel with a "bronze
bath" nails, galvanized steel nails.

c) I can not get "Weldwood" or "Elmer dry power" glue. Epoxy resin is very
good, but expensive and difficult to prepare each time small quantity...What
other water resistant glue could i use?

Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Máximo.