Re: questioning epoxy use
I'm no doctor, but I have yet to hear it said that feeling sick to
one's stomach is an epoxy sensitivity thing. It's essential to be
advised that sensitivity is a real worry. It's important to take
precautions. In fact if you want nothing more than your health give
up the whole thing right now. I get rashes from epoxy, and I feel
bad whenever I get in an enclosed space with it, whether that is my
head in a hull, or a lot of epoxy in a too small area with little
fresh air. On the other hand I break out with some soaps, moist
towlettes, spectacularly from wearing barrier cream and gloves ( a no
no). I feel sick to my stomach from being around cigarette smoke,
regular household paint. In fact I dislike oil paint so much I put a
chemical mask on when using it once and found the whole job went
several times faster since I hadn't induced drowsiness. I used to
like latex painting (back when it had mercury in it) the new better
stuff makes me sick, slightly.
Take reasonable care as from all the great suggestions. Mix counter
clockwise in the northern hemisphere; premix bog dust in large coffee
cans by shaking with sealed lids to minimize exposure. Plus stuff
like balloons tends to adhere the silica so it doesn't hang in the
air; Fold all the dry stuff in until it is enclosed then stir. Find
an epoxy that doesn't make you sick. Some of the perfume they put in
epoxy makes me sick. The basic brands like SIII an WEST don't seem
to bother me. Don't sand epoxy it is rarely really necessary, and
most small shops are badly set up for it. It's fast in an industrial
setting, but there are many ways of reducing the amount of sanding,
unfortunately it takes a while to figure all this out. Learn how to
work fast try to figure out when you can flood a surface or how to
mix the most efficient amounts of coving and get them in fast. When
to bag since the vapor is totally contained Happily Bolger boxes get
nailed a lot, and aren't all that epoxy heavy compared to some.
Learn resin infusion techniques (mostly kidding still it's intriguing)
one's stomach is an epoxy sensitivity thing. It's essential to be
advised that sensitivity is a real worry. It's important to take
precautions. In fact if you want nothing more than your health give
up the whole thing right now. I get rashes from epoxy, and I feel
bad whenever I get in an enclosed space with it, whether that is my
head in a hull, or a lot of epoxy in a too small area with little
fresh air. On the other hand I break out with some soaps, moist
towlettes, spectacularly from wearing barrier cream and gloves ( a no
no). I feel sick to my stomach from being around cigarette smoke,
regular household paint. In fact I dislike oil paint so much I put a
chemical mask on when using it once and found the whole job went
several times faster since I hadn't induced drowsiness. I used to
like latex painting (back when it had mercury in it) the new better
stuff makes me sick, slightly.
Take reasonable care as from all the great suggestions. Mix counter
clockwise in the northern hemisphere; premix bog dust in large coffee
cans by shaking with sealed lids to minimize exposure. Plus stuff
like balloons tends to adhere the silica so it doesn't hang in the
air; Fold all the dry stuff in until it is enclosed then stir. Find
an epoxy that doesn't make you sick. Some of the perfume they put in
epoxy makes me sick. The basic brands like SIII an WEST don't seem
to bother me. Don't sand epoxy it is rarely really necessary, and
most small shops are badly set up for it. It's fast in an industrial
setting, but there are many ways of reducing the amount of sanding,
unfortunately it takes a while to figure all this out. Learn how to
work fast try to figure out when you can flood a surface or how to
mix the most efficient amounts of coving and get them in fast. When
to bag since the vapor is totally contained Happily Bolger boxes get
nailed a lot, and aren't all that epoxy heavy compared to some.
Learn resin infusion techniques (mostly kidding still it's intriguing)
No reason, with a name like Titebond 3, to expect it to act all that
different from Titebond, which is a glue for porous surfaces, especially
wood! If it's really as waterproof as they say, it will be nice to have
anyway.
different from Titebond, which is a glue for porous surfaces, especially
wood! If it's really as waterproof as they say, it will be nice to have
anyway.
>Bob Chamberland wrote:
>
>I called the Titebond technical support line this am. TB III will not
>bond to epoxy coated surfaces they tell me. I don't know if this is
>just saying no to an untested use or if they really have tried it out.
>There are still many uses on a boat and the next question is will
>epoxy stick to TB III. I didn't ask that.
>Bob Chamberland
>
That TB III sounded real good until I ran across this warning:
"Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. Not for
structural or load bearing applications... Because of variances in the
surfaces of treated lumber, it is a good idea to test for adhesion..."
Sounds about like the caveats for Gorilla Glue. Of course Epoxy really isn't
"waterproof" because it can't pass the boil tests... At least they promise
that TB III will be much cheaper than polyurethane glues.
"Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. Not for
structural or load bearing applications... Because of variances in the
surfaces of treated lumber, it is a good idea to test for adhesion..."
Sounds about like the caveats for Gorilla Glue. Of course Epoxy really isn't
"waterproof" because it can't pass the boil tests... At least they promise
that TB III will be much cheaper than polyurethane glues.
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:53:36 -0700, Mark A wrote:
> ...
> For glue, you could be among the first to use this brand new formulation:
>http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
> Many here have used the old TB 2 with good results. Really waterproof TB3
is just shipping
> now at 2x the price.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and
discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, cha62759@t... wrote:
Will TB III laminate FG tape to plywood?
Is TB III compatible with Bondo?
Is it possible to make a T&T dingy using MDO, TB III,and ELHP
(Exterior Latex House Paint)?
Nels
> I called the Titebond technical support line this am. TB III willnot
> bond to epoxy coated surfaces they tell me. I don't know if this isout.
> just saying no to an untested use or if they really have tried it
> There are still many uses on a boat and the next question is willThen more questions may be...
> epoxy stick to TB III. I didn't ask that.
> Bob Chamberland
Will TB III laminate FG tape to plywood?
Is TB III compatible with Bondo?
Is it possible to make a T&T dingy using MDO, TB III,and ELHP
(Exterior Latex House Paint)?
Nels
I called the Titebond technical support line this am. TB III will not
bond to epoxy coated surfaces they tell me. I don't know if this is
just saying no to an untested use or if they really have tried it out.
There are still many uses on a boat and the next question is will
epoxy stick to TB III. I didn't ask that.
Bob Chamberland
bond to epoxy coated surfaces they tell me. I don't know if this is
just saying no to an untested use or if they really have tried it out.
There are still many uses on a boat and the next question is will
epoxy stick to TB III. I didn't ask that.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark <marka@h...> wrote:
> For glue, you could be among the first to use this brand new
formulation:
>http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
> Many here have used the old TB 2 with good results. Really
waterproof TB3 is just shipping
> now at 2x the price.
>
> Keep your nose clean,
> Mark
>
gsphenry@...wrote:
cartridges rated for chemical fumes (they don't magically generate
oxygen so are not a substitute for a respirator in a seriously oxygen
deficient place). The cartridges have a limited life after opening the
seal, this is extended somewhat by using a prefilter to get rid of the
dust before the incoming air reaches the chemical filter.
The pre-filters are a similar material to a 'dust mask' and come in
packs of ten or so, very cheaply. Just like dustmasks they do nothing to
remove the chemicals from your air.
After x months or if you can smell or taste a chemical taint you should
get rid of the chemical filter.
It's very cheap insurance!
Chris
> Chris when you say face mask, do you mean resperator.? or is just theA respirator is best, but there are rubber masks with disposable
> dust
> type mask ok to use?
cartridges rated for chemical fumes (they don't magically generate
oxygen so are not a substitute for a respirator in a seriously oxygen
deficient place). The cartridges have a limited life after opening the
seal, this is extended somewhat by using a prefilter to get rid of the
dust before the incoming air reaches the chemical filter.
The pre-filters are a similar material to a 'dust mask' and come in
packs of ten or so, very cheaply. Just like dustmasks they do nothing to
remove the chemicals from your air.
After x months or if you can smell or taste a chemical taint you should
get rid of the chemical filter.
It's very cheap insurance!
Chris
Epoxy shouldn't make you sick to your stomach. If you still get this
problem with proper ventilation, and proper skin protection, you may be
sensitive and should really watch it. OTOH, if I was doing a project as
big as a Micro that would spend a lot of time in the water, I would
really want to do a good job, and I'm not entirely sure the polyurethane
glues are good enough for that. Don't they say something about "not
below the waterline"? Isn't resorcinol supposed to be truly waterproof
when used in tight joints?
problem with proper ventilation, and proper skin protection, you may be
sensitive and should really watch it. OTOH, if I was doing a project as
big as a Micro that would spend a lot of time in the water, I would
really want to do a good job, and I'm not entirely sure the polyurethane
glues are good enough for that. Don't they say something about "not
below the waterline"? Isn't resorcinol supposed to be truly waterproof
when used in tight joints?
Chris when you say face mask, do you mean resperator.? or is just the dust
type mask ok to use?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
type mask ok to use?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason Stancil wrote:
you are wearing gloves and a face mask rated for chemicals aren't
you? Otherwise you may get VERY sick.
Epoxy is an excellent glue, but SOME people develop hyper sensitivity to
it (either from the smell or contact). Don't take the chance that you
may be one of these peole (there is no way to tell in advance),
definitely keep it off your skin, use it in a well ventilated area
(preferably with the mask), and if you do get it on your skin, DO NOT
follow the folklore advise of using vinegar to remove it. It works, but
the vinegar (or any other solvent) will carry nasties into your skin.
Cheers,
Chris
> I really dislike using epoxy. It's messy, time consuming and itJason,
> makes me feel sick to my stomach.....and i haven't even sanded any
> of it yet!
you are wearing gloves and a face mask rated for chemicals aren't
you? Otherwise you may get VERY sick.
Epoxy is an excellent glue, but SOME people develop hyper sensitivity to
it (either from the smell or contact). Don't take the chance that you
may be one of these peole (there is no way to tell in advance),
definitely keep it off your skin, use it in a well ventilated area
(preferably with the mask), and if you do get it on your skin, DO NOT
follow the folklore advise of using vinegar to remove it. It works, but
the vinegar (or any other solvent) will carry nasties into your skin.
Cheers,
Chris
--- "Jason Stancil" wrote:
pictures, please...
> I've got my micro 3d now.Congratulations! You must post
pictures, please...
>What are people's thoughts on using gorilla glue from here on outI don't recall what kind of plywood you're using, but epoxy over fir
>and then encapsulting the whole thing in unthickened epoxy to keep
>water out. I'm still going to glass the bottom when it's on. I just
>don't want to glue with it any more.
without glass is a waste of epoxy. The fir will check right through
the epoxy. Even a light layer of glass will stop this. If you're not
going to glass, just paint it and except the checking.
OTOH, my fir, epoxy, glass (3 oz), paint composite boats are going 3
years of continuous UV exposure with no signs of peeling, checking or
any other degradation. If you're going to the expense of coating
things with epoxy, glass is a cheap way to make it actually work.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Jason,
Glad to hear your spanish windlass was stout enough to get the panels round...
One learns to be more effective with epoxy over time. Making you sick to the stomach is
another story. That much sheathing is a lot more to spread than gluing the chines and
bulkheads, if you don't like it. Just painting MDO could spare a lot if it bothers you.
Otherwise, the very best respirator you can find and truly zero skin contact are in order.
Epoxy sensitivities are reported to increase over time; not get better.
There also might be something to say about switching brands. For one, I think the
Progressive Poly 'Basic' stuff is pretty mild stuff: Low odor, no exotherm, long pot life.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/1_marineresins.html
For glue, you could be among the first to use this brand new formulation:
http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
Many here have used the old TB 2 with good results. Really waterproof TB3 is just shipping
now at 2x the price.
Keep your nose clean,
Mark
Jason Stancil wrote:
Glad to hear your spanish windlass was stout enough to get the panels round...
One learns to be more effective with epoxy over time. Making you sick to the stomach is
another story. That much sheathing is a lot more to spread than gluing the chines and
bulkheads, if you don't like it. Just painting MDO could spare a lot if it bothers you.
Otherwise, the very best respirator you can find and truly zero skin contact are in order.
Epoxy sensitivities are reported to increase over time; not get better.
There also might be something to say about switching brands. For one, I think the
Progressive Poly 'Basic' stuff is pretty mild stuff: Low odor, no exotherm, long pot life.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/1_marineresins.html
For glue, you could be among the first to use this brand new formulation:
http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp
Many here have used the old TB 2 with good results. Really waterproof TB3 is just shipping
now at 2x the price.
Keep your nose clean,
Mark
Jason Stancil wrote:
>
> I've got my micro 3d now. Sides attached to frames and bulkheads.
> letting it set up for a few days before i beat it straight one last
> time and pop the bottom on.
> I really dislike using epoxy. It's messy, time consuming and it
> makes me feel sick to my stomach.....and i haven't even sanded any
> of it yet!
I've got my micro 3d now. Sides attached to frames and bulkheads.
letting it set up for a few days before i beat it straight one last
time and pop the bottom on.
I really dislike using epoxy. It's messy, time consuming and it
makes me feel sick to my stomach.....and i haven't even sanded any
of it yet!
What are people's thoughts on using gorilla glue from here on out
and then encapsulting the whole thing in unthickened epoxy to keep
water out. I'm still going to glass the bottom when it's on. I just
don't want to glue with it any more.
Do the water proof polyurathane glues hold up for the long haul?
It's all i've ever used before and it works real well as far as i
can tell. Plus it's always mixed right!
Thanks,
jason
letting it set up for a few days before i beat it straight one last
time and pop the bottom on.
I really dislike using epoxy. It's messy, time consuming and it
makes me feel sick to my stomach.....and i haven't even sanded any
of it yet!
What are people's thoughts on using gorilla glue from here on out
and then encapsulting the whole thing in unthickened epoxy to keep
water out. I'm still going to glass the bottom when it's on. I just
don't want to glue with it any more.
Do the water proof polyurathane glues hold up for the long haul?
It's all i've ever used before and it works real well as far as i
can tell. Plus it's always mixed right!
Thanks,
jason