Re: Gaff rig and jib on the Zephyr?

I have sailed with a friend in his Zephyr, with the standard rig. The
breeze was 12-15knots. We sat on the side as best we could, and she
heeled in the puffs, but easy to control. We felt however that any
more or higher set rig would be too much, she is a tender boat.
I remember that sail with much fondness.......beautiful sparkling
blue seas, lightly white foam capped.....
I was also fascinated to watch the gunwhale take an S bend in the
region of the leeboard whenever a gust hit! Bolger designs his boxes
light.
But a great fun-boat, maybe better not to complicate it.
DonB
Micro Navigator
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:
> I bought some plans from Steve Bosquette last year that he never
used
> and I wanted to help my nephew build his first boat. Since I have
> these plans I thought I might modify the sail plan to make it look
> and perform better to weather.
>
> Has anyone done this yet? I gave my nephew my catamaran but I want
> him to remember not all boats are made from plastic. His next boat
> he wants to build after the Zephyr is the Light Schooner. I
remember
> when I was twenty and I wish my uncle had helped me build a few
more
> boats.
>
> John Cupp
>
> Email
>
> boatdock at kfalls.net

>Once again, the city slicker proves inadequate to the verbal
>pyrotecnics of the rural wit.
>
>Peter

Or rural (t)wit.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________

> As for wash decks, what I meant was "hicking", not "hiking".
> It's Eastern Shore humor. We're all hicks here.

Once again, the city slicker proves inadequate to the verbal
pyrotecnics of the rural wit.

Peter

>Don't even get us GOING on outhouses; thems fightin' words here on the
>Shore.
>
>David "we're all Bubbas here" Romasco

Yeee-hawww!

Peter, in all seriousness,

Sharptown is a place in Maryland on the Nanticoke River. The Sharptown
Barge would seem to be a shad fishing boat.

Sharptown is kinda in the boonies though at one time it was a shipbuilding
center.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________

Is that why those cheer leaders were chanting "Hick Up, Hick Up?"

----- Original Message -----
From: "craig o'donnell" <dadadata@...>

> As for wash decks, what I meant was "hicking", not "hiking".
> It's Eastern Shore humor. We're all hicks here.

Don't even get us GOING on outhouses; thems fightin' words here on the
Shore.

David "we're all Bubbas here" Romasco

_____

From: craig o'donnell [mailto:dadadata@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:03 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Gaff rig and jib on the Zephyr?

>The Sharptown Barge, on the other hand, has a wash deck. As for
>the 'several centuries,' the generally accepted (by the descendants
>of the european invaders) beginning of settlement is 1609, IIRC.
>
>Peter

1608 for Virginia.

Not sure for Sharptown but not that early.

As for wash decks, what I meant was "hicking", not "hiking". It's Eastern
Shore humor. We're all hicks here.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>The Sharptown Barge, on the other hand, has a wash deck. As for
>the 'several centuries,' the generally accepted (by the descendants
>of the european invaders) beginning of settlement is 1609, IIRC.
>
>Peter

> The boat is very
> narrow for her length, and does not facilitate strenuous
> or effective hicking out, so the rig is going to have to
> be fairly low.
>
> Peter, have you ever been to Sharptown?
> I can guarantee the residents
> there have been hicking out for several centuries.

Misunderstanding. I should have been more clear. My intent to was to
say that Zephyr, which has only a narrow rail and no side deck, was
not designed for hiking.

The Sharptown Barge, on the other hand, has a wash deck. As for
the 'several centuries,' the generally accepted (by the descendants
of the european invaders) beginning of settlement is 1609, IIRC.

Peter

>The rig that Pete Culler used for the Sharptown barge has the
>same mizzen and jib, but a boomless sprit main. The boat is very
>narrow for her length, and does not facilitate strenuous or effective
>hicking out, so the rig is going to have to be fairly low.

Peter, have you ever been to Sharptown? I can guarantee the residents
there have been hicking out for several centuries.

Signed,

Bubba Clampett
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________

>John, It would seem to me that a Gaff sloop on Zephyr would not be a
>good idea. Its narrow beam coupled with more weight aloft would be a
>bad combination. The lateen on a 10ft mast provides low c/e and is
>efficient enough to get to windward just fine. While I don't have a
>Zephyr, I did sail Carnel's version of the FW for two seasons and
>found the rig to be quite suitable for knocking about.

Well, it would probably work if small enough (I have used a gaff cat sail
on a Bolger Peero, and they don't come any narrower), but the issue with a
light gaff is that it will bend and ruin the sail shape. You could probably
find a piece of busted carbon fiber windsurfer mast for the gaff, ot make
up one which has had carbon fiber "tows" laminated in.

All this adds complexity, but maybe not too much. See my Cheap Pages and
search on "Conor O'Brien" for his description, with drawings, of a gaff
setup for a small boat. Note he doesn't believe in booms and I do.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________

-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________

> Since I have
> these plans I thought I might modify the sail plan to make it look
> and perform better to weather.

I don't like to assume that I can accurately read PCB's mind about
anything, and I quote him instead when I can. I don't recall ever
seeing an explanation of why he chose the lateen rig for Zephyr, but
his comments elsewhere about the rig offer some clues. The boomed
lateen as pioneered (to the American public) on the sailfish has the
advanages of a short mast, not needing a vang, sudden quick lowering,
a light yard for the height of sail, few parts and general
simplicity. Along with the "no vang" part, the sheet can be led
amidships without any kind of traveler without putting bad twist in
the sail. This is a big advantage if you consider the boomless sprit
rig as a likely alternative.

I agree that it's dorky-looking on the Zephyr. I'm not sure I agree
with your implicit proposition that the rig would be slow upwind. I
think that would take some proving. As for an alternative, I would
look at the typical sharpie cat-ketch with sprit booms. You could add
a jib. The rig that Pete Culler used for the Sharptown barge has the
same mizzen and jib, but a boomless sprit main. The boat is very
narrow for her length, and does not facilitate strenuous or effective
hicking out, so the rig is going to have to be fairly low.

Peter

John, It would seem to me that a Gaff sloop on Zephyr would not be a
good idea. Its narrow beam coupled with more weight aloft would be a
bad combination. The lateen on a 10ft mast provides low c/e and is
efficient enough to get to windward just fine. While I don't have a
Zephyr, I did sail Carnel's version of the FW for two seasons and
found the rig to be quite suitable for knocking about.

Dennis

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <john@k...> wrote:
> I bought some plans from Steve Bosquette last year that he never
used
> and I wanted to help my nephew build his first boat. Since I have
> these plans I thought I might modify the sail plan to make it look
> and perform better to weather.
>
> Has anyone done this yet? I gave my nephew my catamaran but I want
> him to remember not all boats are made from plastic. His next boat
> he wants to build after the Zephyr is the Light Schooner. I
remember
> when I was twenty and I wish my uncle had helped me build a few
more
> boats.
>
> John Cupp
>
> Email
>
> boatdock at kfalls.net

I bought some plans from Steve Bosquette last year that he never used
and I wanted to help my nephew build his first boat. Since I have
these plans I thought I might modify the sail plan to make it look
and perform better to weather.

Has anyone done this yet? I gave my nephew my catamaran but I want
him to remember not all boats are made from plastic. His next boat
he wants to build after the Zephyr is the Light Schooner. I remember
when I was twenty and I wish my uncle had helped me build a few more
boats.

John Cupp

Email

boatdock at kfalls.net