Re: squaring a micro?
Jason,
If I've got this right you are trying to assemble the hull without a
strongback and that you also have only assembled with screws so far.
My advice? Take it all back apart, go buy yourself a couple of 16
foot 2x6's (what - $25 or so?), build yourself a strongback and get
everything lined up the way it should be. After you get the hull 3D,
off the strongback and turned over you can use the strongback wood in
the rest of the construction.
Measure the frames - if any are off significantly, mark the error on
the frame and shim the panels after they are in place.
All of this will take but a day or so - which is only about 1% of the
total time you are going to spend building. It will insure that the
boat is acceptably straight and ease the rest of the construction a
bit.
You could have left the frames square - thickened epoxy will easily
fill the gaps. "Perfect" joints are actually undesirable when using
epoxy, especially if they are clamped with much pressure as the resin
will squeeze out and starve the joint.
All this having been said, a bit of twist or assymetry probably won't
be noticed by anyone except yourself.
Good luck!
Paul
If I've got this right you are trying to assemble the hull without a
strongback and that you also have only assembled with screws so far.
My advice? Take it all back apart, go buy yourself a couple of 16
foot 2x6's (what - $25 or so?), build yourself a strongback and get
everything lined up the way it should be. After you get the hull 3D,
off the strongback and turned over you can use the strongback wood in
the rest of the construction.
Measure the frames - if any are off significantly, mark the error on
the frame and shim the panels after they are in place.
All of this will take but a day or so - which is only about 1% of the
total time you are going to spend building. It will insure that the
boat is acceptably straight and ease the rest of the construction a
bit.
You could have left the frames square - thickened epoxy will easily
fill the gaps. "Perfect" joints are actually undesirable when using
epoxy, especially if they are clamped with much pressure as the resin
will squeeze out and starve the joint.
All this having been said, a bit of twist or assymetry probably won't
be noticed by anyone except yourself.
Good luck!
Paul
A fairly easy way to check for twist is to attach battens to each
frame, form or bulkhead, so one edge of the batten aligns with a
vertical centerline on each and extends a couple of feet above the
top of the boat.
All those battens should be in a straight line and parallel with each
other.
You should have drawn a vertical centerline on both sides of each
frame (?). I am assuming that you are using those marks to check with
your string, but they could be straight to the string at the top, but
the frames could still be twisted.
Likewise, you can lay long boards across the gunwales at several
different places so each is are perpendicular to the centerline of
the boat and extend out past the sides. You can sight down those and
see if any are not parallel with the others. They Should All be
parallel.
Give it a try and let me know what you find.
Good luck.
Pat Patteson
Designer of "Twisted Eagle" <g>
Molalla, Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
frame, form or bulkhead, so one edge of the batten aligns with a
vertical centerline on each and extends a couple of feet above the
top of the boat.
All those battens should be in a straight line and parallel with each
other.
You should have drawn a vertical centerline on both sides of each
frame (?). I am assuming that you are using those marks to check with
your string, but they could be straight to the string at the top, but
the frames could still be twisted.
Likewise, you can lay long boards across the gunwales at several
different places so each is are perpendicular to the centerline of
the boat and extend out past the sides. You can sight down those and
see if any are not parallel with the others. They Should All be
parallel.
Give it a try and let me know what you find.
Good luck.
Pat Patteson
Designer of "Twisted Eagle" <g>
Molalla, Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> I was trying to avoid the boat today so i could get some "work"done
> but somehow i ended up back in my basement.....the micro is crookedside.
> twisted or something. I tweaked it around and i think it got worse.
> I strung a center line to try and true it but it's still not quite
> right. Maybe i over trimmed my frames when i was beveling
> them.....still it should square up as i took the same off each
> The starboard side fits dead on but the port side has a wierd flapof
> of i'll fitted side panel....it just not settling flush. Does any
> that make sense?navigator
>
> Any hints on how to true it up? Best way to check it to see if it's
> square?
>
> In case you folks are wondering i scraped the strongback(dumb) i
> built so i could use the 16 foot base boards as logs and
> sheerclamps. Those board were on the pricey side and i figured if i
> did'nt use them now i would'nt have a use for them later. She's
> mainly hung together with coarse screws because i wanted it perfect
> before it became permanent. The windlass is still on it and i have
> no problems with the bending anymore, the wood all seemed to settle
> down into the curve. Just so you know since i'm building a
> the "b" and "c" frames are just temp. to spec size crap wood thrown
> in place so the curve stays fair throughout the stern.
>
> Help,
>
> Jason
Jason,
Where in Beaufort is there enough hill to build a walk-out basement?
Justin
Where in Beaufort is there enough hill to build a walk-out basement?
Justin
> Allow me to elaborate the garage is subterrainian and lies under my
> house.......regardless there is a big door that a micro can be
> sratigically extracated from.
>
> Jason
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
house.......regardless there is a big door that a micro can be
sratigically extracated from.
Jason
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>crooked
> wrote:
> > I was trying to avoid the boat today so i could get some "work"
> done
> > but somehow i ended up back in my basement.....the micro is
> > twisted or something.Allow me to elaborate the garage is subterrainian and lies under my
>
> Basement? Somehow - there may be more problems ahead Jason!
>
> Cheers, Nels:-)
house.......regardless there is a big door that a micro can be
sratigically extracated from.
Jason
Peter?
Strongback shomongback......maybe you're right. It's craig's fault
he convinced me it was a waste of time : ).......maybe i should have
listened to a fellow micro builder and beer swiller.
I marked lines all over the inside of the panels so i've got good
reference points......i'll remeasure.
I'll double check panel centerlines as i planed the ply edges flush
with the framing......maybe it's over done
When cutting the bevels i lost an eighth inch of my ply width....is
that problematic?.....should there have been zero loss.....my hand
is not that steady.
Those stinking lines that indicate where the frames go on the
panels.........do they indicate where the rear, center or front of
the frames go? Currently they are centered. Ah ha!
I knew this would happen as building a brick was challanging :)
Thanks
Jason
Strongback shomongback......maybe you're right. It's craig's fault
he convinced me it was a waste of time : ).......maybe i should have
listened to a fellow micro builder and beer swiller.
I marked lines all over the inside of the panels so i've got good
reference points......i'll remeasure.
I'll double check panel centerlines as i planed the ply edges flush
with the framing......maybe it's over done
When cutting the bevels i lost an eighth inch of my ply width....is
that problematic?.....should there have been zero loss.....my hand
is not that steady.
Those stinking lines that indicate where the frames go on the
panels.........do they indicate where the rear, center or front of
the frames go? Currently they are centered. Ah ha!
I knew this would happen as building a brick was challanging :)
Thanks
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Cheers, Nels:-)
wrote:
> I was trying to avoid the boat today so i could get some "work"done
> but somehow i ended up back in my basement.....the micro is crookedBasement? Somehow - there may be more problems ahead Jason!
> twisted or something.
Cheers, Nels:-)
Or, you could either:
+ burn it and start over, or
+ paint with a camoflague scheme that precludes eyeballing the assymmetry.
Since sail boats almost never are on an even keel, the water won't know the
difference.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
+ burn it and start over, or
+ paint with a camoflague scheme that precludes eyeballing the assymmetry.
Since sail boats almost never are on an even keel, the water won't know the
difference.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
> wrote:
> ..the micro is crooked
> > twisted or something.
>
> Oh Jason.....how tempting it is to say"I told ya so" but that ain't
> gonna get you squared away :-)
> Start with first making absolutely certain that each
> frame/bulkhead/transom etc is EXACTLY to its true dimension as stated
> on the plans.Measure twice,just to be sure.
> Once this has been done and any or all corrections made,check to see
> that your centerlines(marked on each piece,I hope!) are indeed
> centered.
> So far,so good?
> Then,lay out a "baseline" on your garage floor where your transom
> will be,using a 2X4 or whatever to establish a dead straight
> edge.Working from this edge,measure out EXACTLY the distances between
> frames/bulkheads etc all the way to the bow transom.Draw parrelle
> lines about 3 feet apart
> Also,carefully measure out each side panel and ensure that the lines
> drawn for the locations of the frames/bulkheads (you did draw
> reference lines on the insides of each panel,right?) are EXACTLY
> where they should be,ie;careful to keep in mind the difference
> between the "forward face" and "aft face".That is,frames and
> bulkheads forward of amidship generally are place forward of the
> station line and frames /bulkheads aft of amidship go just aft of the
> station line.
> This should correct any booboos which may have crept into your
> work.If none of the above is making any sense to you or even
> helping,consider going back to a strong back........you do not have
> to build it out of premium grade lumber,just so long as it is
> straight and true.......even some scrounged lumber will do so long as
> it is straight.
>
> Good luck and take picutes fer the love of God,we're a curious lot
> here:-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter"ya gots ta build a strongback" Lenihan, hoping it works out for
> Jason since sailing his Micro will be the best way to quickly forget
> all his present troubles...............
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
..the micro is crooked
gonna get you squared away :-)
Start with first making absolutely certain that each
frame/bulkhead/transom etc is EXACTLY to its true dimension as stated
on the plans.Measure twice,just to be sure.
Once this has been done and any or all corrections made,check to see
that your centerlines(marked on each piece,I hope!) are indeed
centered.
So far,so good?
Then,lay out a "baseline" on your garage floor where your transom
will be,using a 2X4 or whatever to establish a dead straight
edge.Working from this edge,measure out EXACTLY the distances between
frames/bulkheads etc all the way to the bow transom.Draw parrelle
lines about 3 feet apart
Also,carefully measure out each side panel and ensure that the lines
drawn for the locations of the frames/bulkheads (you did draw
reference lines on the insides of each panel,right?) are EXACTLY
where they should be,ie;careful to keep in mind the difference
between the "forward face" and "aft face".That is,frames and
bulkheads forward of amidship generally are place forward of the
station line and frames /bulkheads aft of amidship go just aft of the
station line.
This should correct any booboos which may have crept into your
work.If none of the above is making any sense to you or even
helping,consider going back to a strong back........you do not have
to build it out of premium grade lumber,just so long as it is
straight and true.......even some scrounged lumber will do so long as
it is straight.
Good luck and take picutes fer the love of God,we're a curious lot
here:-)
Sincerely,
Peter"ya gots ta build a strongback" Lenihan, hoping it works out for
Jason since sailing his Micro will be the best way to quickly forget
all his present troubles...............
wrote:
..the micro is crooked
> twisted or something.Oh Jason.....how tempting it is to say"I told ya so" but that ain't
gonna get you squared away :-)
Start with first making absolutely certain that each
frame/bulkhead/transom etc is EXACTLY to its true dimension as stated
on the plans.Measure twice,just to be sure.
Once this has been done and any or all corrections made,check to see
that your centerlines(marked on each piece,I hope!) are indeed
centered.
So far,so good?
Then,lay out a "baseline" on your garage floor where your transom
will be,using a 2X4 or whatever to establish a dead straight
edge.Working from this edge,measure out EXACTLY the distances between
frames/bulkheads etc all the way to the bow transom.Draw parrelle
lines about 3 feet apart
Also,carefully measure out each side panel and ensure that the lines
drawn for the locations of the frames/bulkheads (you did draw
reference lines on the insides of each panel,right?) are EXACTLY
where they should be,ie;careful to keep in mind the difference
between the "forward face" and "aft face".That is,frames and
bulkheads forward of amidship generally are place forward of the
station line and frames /bulkheads aft of amidship go just aft of the
station line.
This should correct any booboos which may have crept into your
work.If none of the above is making any sense to you or even
helping,consider going back to a strong back........you do not have
to build it out of premium grade lumber,just so long as it is
straight and true.......even some scrounged lumber will do so long as
it is straight.
Good luck and take picutes fer the love of God,we're a curious lot
here:-)
Sincerely,
Peter"ya gots ta build a strongback" Lenihan, hoping it works out for
Jason since sailing his Micro will be the best way to quickly forget
all his present troubles...............
I was trying to avoid the boat today so i could get some "work" done
but somehow i ended up back in my basement.....the micro is crooked
twisted or something. I tweaked it around and i think it got worse.
I strung a center line to try and true it but it's still not quite
right. Maybe i over trimmed my frames when i was beveling
them.....still it should square up as i took the same off each side.
The starboard side fits dead on but the port side has a wierd flap
of i'll fitted side panel....it just not settling flush. Does any of
that make sense?
Any hints on how to true it up? Best way to check it to see if it's
square?
In case you folks are wondering i scraped the strongback(dumb) i
built so i could use the 16 foot base boards as logs and
sheerclamps. Those board were on the pricey side and i figured if i
did'nt use them now i would'nt have a use for them later. She's
mainly hung together with coarse screws because i wanted it perfect
before it became permanent. The windlass is still on it and i have
no problems with the bending anymore, the wood all seemed to settle
down into the curve. Just so you know since i'm building a navigator
the "b" and "c" frames are just temp. to spec size crap wood thrown
in place so the curve stays fair throughout the stern.
Help,
Jason
but somehow i ended up back in my basement.....the micro is crooked
twisted or something. I tweaked it around and i think it got worse.
I strung a center line to try and true it but it's still not quite
right. Maybe i over trimmed my frames when i was beveling
them.....still it should square up as i took the same off each side.
The starboard side fits dead on but the port side has a wierd flap
of i'll fitted side panel....it just not settling flush. Does any of
that make sense?
Any hints on how to true it up? Best way to check it to see if it's
square?
In case you folks are wondering i scraped the strongback(dumb) i
built so i could use the 16 foot base boards as logs and
sheerclamps. Those board were on the pricey side and i figured if i
did'nt use them now i would'nt have a use for them later. She's
mainly hung together with coarse screws because i wanted it perfect
before it became permanent. The windlass is still on it and i have
no problems with the bending anymore, the wood all seemed to settle
down into the curve. Just so you know since i'm building a navigator
the "b" and "c" frames are just temp. to spec size crap wood thrown
in place so the curve stays fair throughout the stern.
Help,
Jason