Re: acceptable tolerences in boat building
> When is enough, enough?Measure with a micrometer.
Mark with chalk.
Cut with a dull hatchet.
HTH. HAND.
:-)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Jason
A master boat builder that I once had the wonderful fortune to have
worked with on a project told me that even the most famous yachts (He
referenced a couple of Herreshof 's most well known) often had the left
side not match the right side exactly.
So if she goes together, looks well, and is watertight, its really not
something to worry very much about.
The same old man replied to me when I asked if a piece of wood I'd cut
was good enough, "Is it the best that you can do?" I told him that it
was and he replied that in that case it certainly was good enough.
Carry on and enjoy your boat.
Jim
A master boat builder that I once had the wonderful fortune to have
worked with on a project told me that even the most famous yachts (He
referenced a couple of Herreshof 's most well known) often had the left
side not match the right side exactly.
So if she goes together, looks well, and is watertight, its really not
something to worry very much about.
The same old man replied to me when I asked if a piece of wood I'd cut
was good enough, "Is it the best that you can do?" I told him that it
was and he replied that in that case it certainly was good enough.
Carry on and enjoy your boat.
Jim
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > When is enough, enough?
> >
> > Jason
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
invented too,so that one could take ones comfort safely nestled but
several inches off the floor while gazing at some glaring error
through the unfocused lense of an up-turned beer
glass.Mercifully,the alcohol would soon work its magic,not un-like
liquid plumber,and unclog the mental log jam that was preventing one
from seeing the painfully obvious route one "should" have taken the
first time around.With regular practice,one should soon be able to
maintain a steady flow of alcohol thereby forever ensuring free
flowing and clear thought processes.At the very least,one could
expect to assume a more cavalier posture regarding errors and simply
challenge onlookers with a robust" I planned it that way,you
wanker!" With any kind of luck,they will believe you and you,in
turn,will soon forget you ever made a mistake in the first place and
simply blame it all on the designer.
Peter Lenihan,getting nervous jitters,again,as sunrises soon
approaches from along the shores of the St.Lawrence........
> I think stitch and glue has spawned lazy boatbuilding.Hear!Hear! and that is why the moaning chair and alcohol was
> DonB
invented too,so that one could take ones comfort safely nestled but
several inches off the floor while gazing at some glaring error
through the unfocused lense of an up-turned beer
glass.Mercifully,the alcohol would soon work its magic,not un-like
liquid plumber,and unclog the mental log jam that was preventing one
from seeing the painfully obvious route one "should" have taken the
first time around.With regular practice,one should soon be able to
maintain a steady flow of alcohol thereby forever ensuring free
flowing and clear thought processes.At the very least,one could
expect to assume a more cavalier posture regarding errors and simply
challenge onlookers with a robust" I planned it that way,you
wanker!" With any kind of luck,they will believe you and you,in
turn,will soon forget you ever made a mistake in the first place and
simply blame it all on the designer.
Peter Lenihan,getting nervous jitters,again,as sunrises soon
approaches from along the shores of the St.Lawrence........
1/8" isn't very much, but 2 degrees is a lot. Across 5 feet of beam that
would be 2 inches!
would be 2 inches!
Like Bolger said once about one of his square boat designs....no two
will ever be built to look the same. Among all other reasons,
different ply will give different bends.
One of the reasons I reverted to a building frame.
I think stitch and glue has spawned lazy boatbuilding.
DonB
will ever be built to look the same. Among all other reasons,
different ply will give different bends.
One of the reasons I reverted to a building frame.
I think stitch and glue has spawned lazy boatbuilding.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> 1/8" isn't very much, but 2 degrees is a lot. Across 5 feet of beam
that
> would be 2 inches!
>I'm not discouraged by my time spend i want it right and am willingAn eighth is close enough. Larger boats are sometimes remarkably
>to take the time needed.
>
>When is enough, enough?
asymmetrical. Old time builders using traditional methods often cranked out
boats which weren't symmetrical.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
>The other thing - there is an excellent tool available for fineYeah, don't force it. Use a hammer.
>tuning any structure that is slightly out of square. (This is a
>homebuilder secret;-) It is called a sledge hammer. No kidding, it
>can really help!
-David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Sounds to me like you don't have a moaning chair - one of the most
important pieces of equipment for the home boat builder.
A moaning chair allows you to sit back and let things settle in your
mind and then think logically. For example what will happen to the
errors at the end of the finished hull? Will it have detrimental snow-
ball effects later on down the line? If not - forget it and get on
with the next step.
The other thing - there is an excellent tool available for fine
tuning any structure that is slightly out of square. (This is a
homebuilder secret;-) It is called a sledge hammer. No kidding, it
can really help!
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> The epic of micro squaring continues...........Jason,
>
Sounds to me like you don't have a moaning chair - one of the most
important pieces of equipment for the home boat builder.
A moaning chair allows you to sit back and let things settle in your
mind and then think logically. For example what will happen to the
errors at the end of the finished hull? Will it have detrimental snow-
ball effects later on down the line? If not - forget it and get on
with the next step.
The other thing - there is an excellent tool available for fine
tuning any structure that is slightly out of square. (This is a
homebuilder secret;-) It is called a sledge hammer. No kidding, it
can really help!
Cheers, Nels
>When you can't fill it with epoxy!
> When is enough, enough?
>
> Jason
Nobody but you will notice it anyhow. It depends on what you want to
live with. A 1/16th, even 1/2" will be difficult to notice over a
16' boat without a level and a tape. It's really up to what you
desire. Personally, I like to get the boat on the water so I'm big
on "close enough". That last step to perfection takes too much time
and effort. If I wanted perfect, I'd buy a plastic boat.
Sounds like its coming together - looking forward to more pictures.
Doug
I asked that question on rec.boats.building a few years ago. Their
consensus was that 1/16" or better was the goal. But who's going to know?
It's not a class boat with Rules Committees and their Measurements.
I guess this is one disadvantage of the Bolger Boxes. One can see the
misalignments. If everything is curved, one is hard pressed to say it's not
square.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
consensus was that 1/16" or better was the goal. But who's going to know?
It's not a class boat with Rules Committees and their Measurements.
I guess this is one disadvantage of the Bolger Boxes. One can see the
misalignments. If everything is curved, one is hard pressed to say it's not
square.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 5:43 PM
Subject: [bolger] acceptable tolerences in boat building
> The epic of micro squaring continues...........
>
> I shifted all the bulkead frame edges an inch or so so that the
> faces are on the side pane lines instead of the middle of the
> frames....forward of center foward of line and aft of midship aft of
> lines (is that what you meant peter)
>
> The whole assemble is within 2 degree of level maybe less.....can't
> tell because my center temp frame longitudinals are slightly warped.
>
> I've put a buch of sheetrock screws in the side panels and it's
> starting to look like swiss cheese :) ........ read: build a
> friggin strongback if you are building a micro solo unless you are a
> body builder.
>
> I'm within a 16th of an inch except one spot at an eighth when i fix
> that one it just moves else where.......need more hands
>
> I know everyone has a different philosophy on boat building but i'm
> trying to get a consenses. This boat is far larger than anything
> else i have built and a little off can be multiplied by the final
> product.
>
> I'm not discouraged by my time spend i want it right and am willing
> to take the time needed.
>
> When is enough, enough?
>
> Jason
>When is enough, enough?My father is a painter. He says, "When your efforts start to have as
much chance of making the painting worse as they do of making it
better, it's time to stop."
Epoxy fillets cover a host of sins.
As long as you stick to the plans, almost no level of wood butchery
can prevent the boat from performing as expected.
Almost no level of cabinet maker finish will relieve you from
answering slightly condescending questions from people who think they
know what a boat is supposed to look like.
Far more people will be impressed that you did it yourself. My Light
Scooner MARGARET ELLEN is obviously made by someone with very little
skill with neither saw nor squeegee, nor paintbrush. But every time I
sail her, I'm treated like some sort of master craftsman -- even by
fellows who ARE maste craftsmen.
As long as the effort continues to be satisfying, I'd say keep at it.
Once it stops being fun, that's probably good enough.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
The epic of micro squaring continues...........
I shifted all the bulkead frame edges an inch or so so that the
faces are on the side pane lines instead of the middle of the
frames....forward of center foward of line and aft of midship aft of
lines (is that what you meant peter)
The whole assemble is within 2 degree of level maybe less.....can't
tell because my center temp frame longitudinals are slightly warped.
I've put a buch of sheetrock screws in the side panels and it's
starting to look like swiss cheese :) ........ read: build a
friggin strongback if you are building a micro solo unless you are a
body builder.
I'm within a 16th of an inch except one spot at an eighth when i fix
that one it just moves else where.......need more hands
I know everyone has a different philosophy on boat building but i'm
trying to get a consenses. This boat is far larger than anything
else i have built and a little off can be multiplied by the final
product.
I'm not discouraged by my time spend i want it right and am willing
to take the time needed.
When is enough, enough?
Jason
I shifted all the bulkead frame edges an inch or so so that the
faces are on the side pane lines instead of the middle of the
frames....forward of center foward of line and aft of midship aft of
lines (is that what you meant peter)
The whole assemble is within 2 degree of level maybe less.....can't
tell because my center temp frame longitudinals are slightly warped.
I've put a buch of sheetrock screws in the side panels and it's
starting to look like swiss cheese :) ........ read: build a
friggin strongback if you are building a micro solo unless you are a
body builder.
I'm within a 16th of an inch except one spot at an eighth when i fix
that one it just moves else where.......need more hands
I know everyone has a different philosophy on boat building but i'm
trying to get a consenses. This boat is far larger than anything
else i have built and a little off can be multiplied by the final
product.
I'm not discouraged by my time spend i want it right and am willing
to take the time needed.
When is enough, enough?
Jason