Re: Need for centerboards and Turtle
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
bottom boats, cabin height is less than or equal to boat width. I do
not know if there is a reason - looks, windage, center of gravity?
Charles
wrote:
> I'm thinking 6'6" (I'm 6'3") in the main cabin and outhouse.If you look at the state series and maybe most of Bolger's flat
>
> I'll play w' look and proportions using paint and 1/4" ply as
> necessary to make it look right to my eye.
>
bottom boats, cabin height is less than or equal to boat width. I do
not know if there is a reason - looks, windage, center of gravity?
Charles
I'm thinking 6'6" (I'm 6'3") in the main cabin and outhouse.
I'll play w' look and proportions using paint and 1/4" ply as
necessary to make it look right to my eye.
I'll play w' look and proportions using paint and 1/4" ply as
necessary to make it look right to my eye.
> How much do you plan to stretch? What headroom dimension are you
> trying for?
> I have thought about an Idaho cabin with 6 feet inside. That would
> be an additional 14 inches over plan.
> The Idaho gunwales are low relative to length. A Dakota scaled back
> to 31' long would have gunwales 6 inches higher than the 31'Idaho.
> If you add 6 inches to the Idaho gunwale height and 8 inches to the
> cabin sides the proportions may be better than 14" added to the
> sides. It would look more like a Dakota without the rocker.
>
> Charles
> These long sharpies could be fitted with aThe bow draws very little water so a thruster would need to be go
> lee board, which would be simpler than a
> centerboard trunk, more effective than a shoe
> in a cross wind and cheaper than a bow thruster.
below the bottom and be easily retracted to above the water line for
planing speeds or shallows.
Charles
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
wrote:
trying for?
I have thought about an Idaho cabin with 6 feet inside. That would
be an additional 14 inches over plan.
The Idaho gunwales are low relative to length. A Dakota scaled back
to 31' long would have gunwales 6 inches higher than the 31'Idaho.
If you add 6 inches to the Idaho gunwale height and 8 inches to the
cabin sides the proportions may be better than 14" added to the
sides. It would look more like a Dakota without the rocker.
Charles
wrote:
> Just to keep things on track. My Idaho "stretch" is vertical,How much do you plan to stretch? What headroom dimension are you
> raising cabin height. My intent is to build per plans from the
> gunwales down.
>
trying for?
I have thought about an Idaho cabin with 6 feet inside. That would
be an additional 14 inches over plan.
The Idaho gunwales are low relative to length. A Dakota scaled back
to 31' long would have gunwales 6 inches higher than the 31'Idaho.
If you add 6 inches to the Idaho gunwale height and 8 inches to the
cabin sides the proportions may be better than 14" added to the
sides. It would look more like a Dakota without the rocker.
Charles
--- "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...> wrote:
lee board, which would be simpler than a
centerboard trunk, more effective than a shoe
in a cross wind and cheaper than a bow thruster.
> I'd rather have a shoe than a centerboard,These long sharpies could be fitted with a
lee board, which would be simpler than a
centerboard trunk, more effective than a shoe
in a cross wind and cheaper than a bow thruster.
Just to keep things on track. My Idaho "stretch" is vertical,
raising cabin height. My intent is to build per plans from the
gunwales down.
Reading about centerboards in PCB's essays concerning Wyoming and
Minnesota, he does not directly say, but seems to indicate the
board's normal state is down and it should be retracted only when
absolutely necessary.
A good view of how a bow thruster might be executed is shown in the
Illinois study plan.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
For Illinois a medium sized outboard is used as a thruster, but the
scheme would readily scale down to hold an electric trolling motor.
My thought for a thruster is to directly address the "windy day in
the marina" scenario described previously.
I'd rather have a shoe than a centerboard, gain durability, and what
I perceive as simplicity, though I certainly muck up the "simple"
part with a retractable thruster.
Lastly. If I would choose to go for the 6'+ beam, I would build
Minnesota, at least in all external dimensions. I'm not interested
in 100+ hp, so I think the boat could internally be built "like
Idaho" if one was careful to keep the HP at Idaho limits.
Of course, at that point, it becomes "Bolger inspired" rather than a
Bolger boat.
IMO the "fishing hole" suggested below might be best executed on a
multihull design, IE Bantam.
raising cabin height. My intent is to build per plans from the
gunwales down.
Reading about centerboards in PCB's essays concerning Wyoming and
Minnesota, he does not directly say, but seems to indicate the
board's normal state is down and it should be retracted only when
absolutely necessary.
A good view of how a bow thruster might be executed is shown in the
Illinois study plan.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
For Illinois a medium sized outboard is used as a thruster, but the
scheme would readily scale down to hold an electric trolling motor.
My thought for a thruster is to directly address the "windy day in
the marina" scenario described previously.
I'd rather have a shoe than a centerboard, gain durability, and what
I perceive as simplicity, though I certainly muck up the "simple"
part with a retractable thruster.
Lastly. If I would choose to go for the 6'+ beam, I would build
Minnesota, at least in all external dimensions. I'm not interested
in 100+ hp, so I think the boat could internally be built "like
Idaho" if one was careful to keep the HP at Idaho limits.
Of course, at that point, it becomes "Bolger inspired" rather than a
Bolger boat.
IMO the "fishing hole" suggested below might be best executed on a
multihull design, IE Bantam.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...> wrote:
...I like the idea of the hole in the
> boat for
> underwater viewing as we've discussed elsewhere and
> for
> fishing when the mosquitoes won't allow you on
> deck...always thought it'd be fun to fish from inside
> while playing the new board game "Settler's"...When
> the board isn't needed, nor the fishing, nor the
> viewing, there'd be a plug that filled the hole flush
> with the hull...this would be more practical on a
> non-planing hull... Sure is fun to dream up new
> ideas...
>
> BTW I'd think of increasing the beam closer to
> trailerable width on something that's 30 plus feet
> long...but than she'd probably need more than a 9.9
> OB...any thoughts?
Given the good discussion...perhaps one could
creatively do Don's hole protected by a waterproof
bulkhead and build a retractable centerboard
contraption that would use the hole instead of the
retracting electric "bow thruster" (actually a
trolling motor)...I like the idea of the hole in the
boat for
underwater viewing as we've discussed elsewhere and
for
fishing when the mosquitoes won't allow you on
deck...always thought it'd be fun to fish from inside
while playing the new board game "Settler's"...When
the board isn't needed, nor the fishing, nor the
viewing, there'd be a plug that filled the hole flush
with the hull...this would be more practical on a
non-planing hull... Sure is fun to dream up new
ideas...
BTW I'd think of increasing the beam closer to
trailerable width on something that's 30 plus feet
long...but than she'd probably need more than a 9.9
OB...any thoughts?
Ed Brewer has a beautiful cruiser of this type of
plywood called "Quiet Times"...
I'd love to ask John Barlet who built and owns Turtle
about his boat, are you, is he, around here somewhere
on email?
All the best to you all!
Bert Eggers...Saginaw, Mi
From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
Subject: Re: Sketching on an
Idaho
Yes I had found Turtle including
what I believe is an older photo of
her with a blue hull, and some
interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I
note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the
center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't
like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build
a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster
based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be
isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk
to flooding the cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
"Jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
Is to help control the boat in
head seas or in a turn. Sharpies have
a tendency to skid in sharp
turns at higher speeds making them prone
to tripping. The centerboard
helps control the skid and helps with
the yawing that can take place
in big head seas.
provide lateral forces. A bow
thruster would not be effective
underway, but great for close in
handling.
points,the centerboard is also a life
saver(face-saver?) in marinas
where one has to manouver at slow speed
through a labyrinth of boat
jammed quays.On perfectly calm days this
is a non-event,but throw in a
nice cross wind and soon the boat is
weaving all over the place,the
helmsman spinning the wheel like a man
possessed while ramming the
shifter/throttle back and forth in a vain
attempt to get his boat to "go
straight!" Just spend some time on a
breezy day at your local marina
and watch the panic parties racing up
and down the docks to fend off
another boat attempting to leave or
enter.
With the nice big flat sides of
these"cruising power sharpies" acting
as a sail,combined with
virtually zero draft up forward and
relatively light weight,a
centerboard is a most welcomed low-tech
solution.Added to this is a
superior range of sealants/adhesives
which make traditional leeky
spots(like a centerboard case) really a
thing of the past.Besides,with
the plywood construction specified,you
should experience no swelling at
all of a properly sealed and
fastened centerboard case.
And as if that weren't
enough,they also make for excellent low speed
depth sounders and a picnic
anchor(or spud,as Bolger calls them)
whereby you simply lower the
board into some soft sand or mud,in your
favorite protected water cove
and crack open a cold one while
planning your next move :-)
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
creatively do Don's hole protected by a waterproof
bulkhead and build a retractable centerboard
contraption that would use the hole instead of the
retracting electric "bow thruster" (actually a
trolling motor)...I like the idea of the hole in the
boat for
underwater viewing as we've discussed elsewhere and
for
fishing when the mosquitoes won't allow you on
deck...always thought it'd be fun to fish from inside
while playing the new board game "Settler's"...When
the board isn't needed, nor the fishing, nor the
viewing, there'd be a plug that filled the hole flush
with the hull...this would be more practical on a
non-planing hull... Sure is fun to dream up new
ideas...
BTW I'd think of increasing the beam closer to
trailerable width on something that's 30 plus feet
long...but than she'd probably need more than a 9.9
OB...any thoughts?
Ed Brewer has a beautiful cruiser of this type of
plywood called "Quiet Times"...
I'd love to ask John Barlet who built and owns Turtle
about his boat, are you, is he, around here somewhere
on email?
All the best to you all!
Bert Eggers...Saginaw, Mi
From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
Subject: Re: Sketching on an
Idaho
Yes I had found Turtle including
what I believe is an older photo of
her with a blue hull, and some
interior pics. Her ability to move
with no wake is impressive. I
note the additional beam she has also.
Like many, I'd like to avoid the
center board. I understand the
handling advantages, but don't
like the complexity, nor the hole in
the bottom. If I were to build
a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
and/or a retractable thruster
based on an electric trolling motor.
That hole in the bottom can be
isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
where it does not present risk
to flooding the cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
"Jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> The reason for the centerboardon the Idaho, Wyo, Sneakeasy, etc.
Is to help control the boat in
head seas or in a turn. Sharpies have
a tendency to skid in sharp
turns at higher speeds making them prone
to tripping. The centerboard
helps control the skid and helps with
the yawing that can take place
in big head seas.
>centerboard or a long shoe or runners to
> You should either have the
provide lateral forces. A bow
thruster would not be effective
underway, but great for close in
handling.
>Just to add to Jeffs excellent
points,the centerboard is also a life
saver(face-saver?) in marinas
where one has to manouver at slow speed
through a labyrinth of boat
jammed quays.On perfectly calm days this
is a non-event,but throw in a
nice cross wind and soon the boat is
weaving all over the place,the
helmsman spinning the wheel like a man
possessed while ramming the
shifter/throttle back and forth in a vain
attempt to get his boat to "go
straight!" Just spend some time on a
breezy day at your local marina
and watch the panic parties racing up
and down the docks to fend off
another boat attempting to leave or
enter.
With the nice big flat sides of
these"cruising power sharpies" acting
as a sail,combined with
virtually zero draft up forward and
relatively light weight,a
centerboard is a most welcomed low-tech
solution.Added to this is a
superior range of sealants/adhesives
which make traditional leeky
spots(like a centerboard case) really a
thing of the past.Besides,with
the plywood construction specified,you
should experience no swelling at
all of a properly sealed and
fastened centerboard case.
And as if that weren't
enough,they also make for excellent low speed
depth sounders and a picnic
anchor(or spud,as Bolger calls them)
whereby you simply lower the
board into some soft sand or mud,in your
favorite protected water cove
and crack open a cold one while
planning your next move :-)
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash