Re: LM Nav/Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
what PCB&F might suggest. Another rig option might be something like
the foremast of the BREAKDOWN SCHOONER. I like that partner system
that is also used on several other designs, includiing the house
version of CHEBACCO. The advantage of the tabernacle - as designed -
is that the mast is already secured at one end when lowered.
Disadvantage is that it is right over the pilothouse hatch opening
and companionway UNLESS it is off-set perhaps?
There are some interesting comparisons to MICRO and LONG MICRO that
go beyond the simple 4 feet increase in LOA. The mast is five feet
taller at almost 30 feet and the sprit boom 5 feet longer at almost
20 feet! This results in 110 square feet more sail area, (including a
bigger mizzen sail.)
Also the deeper hull gives more clearance under the sail - 6 feet
from the front of the hatch all the way aft - as the cut of the sail
foot almost parallels the upward seep of the hull bottom as you go
aft.
One option is to build in some mast bracing so that more than one
sail option can be used for trial purposes. That way if one is not
happy with the choice one can return to the original without having
to do major hull surgery.
Cheers, Nels
> I agree, much easier than a standard Micro.Thanks, both to Don and Bruce for your input. It might be interesting
> It depends though on where the boat will be sailed. If low bridges
> are a concern, only a tabernacle would be practical. I understand
> Nels may want to lower his rig when mooring, when regularly lifting
> out the mast would be a pain.
> DonB
>http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
>
what PCB&F might suggest. Another rig option might be something like
the foremast of the BREAKDOWN SCHOONER. I like that partner system
that is also used on several other designs, includiing the house
version of CHEBACCO. The advantage of the tabernacle - as designed -
is that the mast is already secured at one end when lowered.
Disadvantage is that it is right over the pilothouse hatch opening
and companionway UNLESS it is off-set perhaps?
There are some interesting comparisons to MICRO and LONG MICRO that
go beyond the simple 4 feet increase in LOA. The mast is five feet
taller at almost 30 feet and the sprit boom 5 feet longer at almost
20 feet! This results in 110 square feet more sail area, (including a
bigger mizzen sail.)
Also the deeper hull gives more clearance under the sail - 6 feet
from the front of the hatch all the way aft - as the cut of the sail
foot almost parallels the upward seep of the hull bottom as you go
aft.
One option is to build in some mast bracing so that more than one
sail option can be used for trial purposes. That way if one is not
happy with the choice one can return to the original without having
to do major hull surgery.
Cheers, Nels
dbaldnz wrote:
newsgroup, and once again I would like to make this
clear:
While Fosters is (presumably) an Australian invention,
no dinkum Aussie would be fool enough to drink the stuff
if there were any serious alternative. The target market
appears to be the UK. I don't think they stock it in my
liquor store.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> Yeeeeechhhh!!!!! Go wash out your mouth with soap Peter.....FostersThis is a subject that comes up occasionally on this
> is australian.
newsgroup, and once again I would like to make this
clear:
While Fosters is (presumably) an Australian invention,
no dinkum Aussie would be fool enough to drink the stuff
if there were any serious alternative. The target market
appears to be the UK. I don't think they stock it in my
liquor store.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
I agree, much easier than a standard Micro.
It depends though on where the boat will be sailed. If low bridges
are a concern, only a tabernacle would be practical. I understand
Nels may want to lower his rig when mooring, when regularly lifting
out the mast would be a pain.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
It depends though on where the boat will be sailed. If low bridges
are a concern, only a tabernacle would be practical. I understand
Nels may want to lower his rig when mooring, when regularly lifting
out the mast would be a pain.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, bruce@h... wrote:
> --- "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> > ...pilot house. Also the tabernacle
>
> I can understand that you want a tabernacle,
> but note that with my Micro Navigator,
> the problem of stepping and unstepping the
> mast is made quite easy because you can
> stand on the roof of the cabin. ...which
> conveniently is located at the balance point
> for the mast. If I had it to do over,
> I still would not opt for a tabernacle
> because stepping the mast is an easy task
> from atop the cabin.
--- "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
but note that with my Micro Navigator,
the problem of stepping and unstepping the
mast is made quite easy because you can
stand on the roof of the cabin. ...which
conveniently is located at the balance point
for the mast. If I had it to do over,
I still would not opt for a tabernacle
because stepping the mast is an easy task
from atop the cabin.
> ...pilot house. Also the tabernacleI can understand that you want a tabernacle,
but note that with my Micro Navigator,
the problem of stepping and unstepping the
mast is made quite easy because you can
stand on the roof of the cabin. ...which
conveniently is located at the balance point
for the mast. If I had it to do over,
I still would not opt for a tabernacle
because stepping the mast is an easy task
from atop the cabin.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
follows function in there philosophy the tilt-up motor on the stern
is their first choice always. Their other choice is to have sponsons
on each side which hide the motor somewhat but still provide ready
access to working on it, give extra floatation from following seas
and when it is raised and provide built-in boarding steps.
However, I believe the Jochens Schooner has a built in well. I hope
to be aboard one of them this summer as I plan a visit to Norway and
Sweden.
oxymoron - sort up there with "honest politician":-)
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> Nels i'm looking forward to seeing this thing.back
> The only thing i dislike about the micro is having the outboard
> there dangling. If i ever do it again i will write PCB and beg himGood luck trying to convince PCB&F for a motor well. Since form
> to design a little well for the OB all stowed away nice and neat,
> out of sight and protected from following seas.......having the OB
> where the rudder was would mean a nice little outboard rudder maybe
> a barn door rudder like a catboat.
follows function in there philosophy the tilt-up motor on the stern
is their first choice always. Their other choice is to have sponsons
on each side which hide the motor somewhat but still provide ready
access to working on it, give extra floatation from following seas
and when it is raised and provide built-in boarding steps.
However, I believe the Jochens Schooner has a built in well. I hope
to be aboard one of them this summer as I plan a visit to Norway and
Sweden.
> Simplicity being key i would go the german, as-29 anti-kerphlumperSorry Jason, I will let you teach the lessons. A racing LMNav is an
> bow mod route.....it can't weigh that much and should do the trick.
>
> Motorsailer or not.......you know you want the full size chinese
> gaff rig.....when that wind is right you know you're going to want
> to teach some punk in a catalina/milkcarton a lesson. I bet you
> could just drop in the hassler rig.....same size, maybe minor
> changes as the hassler is much heavier.
oxymoron - sort up there with "honest politician":-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
turns it into a tugboat dosen't it? Page 287 BWAOM. So I am thinking -
the wider the box keel, the more storage area lower down - so why
not carry the sides of the box keel right out to the full width of
the boat? Shit, NOW I HAVE A LONG DEEP MICRO!!
Since there is a leaning toward a
about. (Hope his heart is strong:-) The other thing is a remote
control and I could use my two way hand-held to yell "Scottie I need
full ahead!!" and then press the appropriate button:-) Really impress
the lock keeper eh?
mast should be reefable along with the sail. I think the topmast
attached to the aft part of the mainmast with a geared track would
work best. I still have a few details to work out on how to move it
up and down without effort. Of course it could be another ss cable
with a remote controled 12 volt motor - similar to the one connected
to the rudder. That way I could walk around on deck and yell orders
that include "...lower the topsail smartly lads!!"
Another thing is that a sharpie sails fastest at a certain angle of
heel which can be kept track of using a clinometer - which is a fancy
name for a plumb bob with a card behind it marked in degrees. You
have that connected to the remote control of the topmast so it will
raise and lower automatically to maintain the ideal angle of heel.
Finally you plug in the co-ordinates for your autohelm and you are
off for a serious sailing work-out. (Perhaps you might want to
activate the program that maintains the correct speed to get you
where you want to go on time as well - and the motor automatically
starts up if the speed drops below a certain point.)
pool you do it on the laptop! However the sauna has some appeal. I
think that can be duplicated by sitting out in the sun with your
waterproofs on - can it not? (Of course you get thoroughly wet first
by the passing shower before putting them on - just as the sun comes
back out:-)
I notice you seem to have a "thing" about boarding ladders. You don't
seriously intend to use one do you? Must be for the pesky crew, who
is interested in actually doing strenuous activities at times. You
best save your strength my friend, for when she returns. However
telescopic boarding ladders are way beyond my expertise. Sounds like
a job for PCB&F!
Cheers, Nels.
wrote:
> Let's see Nels.....go with a Hasler bottom since,at this smallishexcellent
> size it is not too hard to build,just more involved.It will improve
> the ride up wind and allow greater displacement in that size range
> then the standard LM thus permitting much greater storage
> capacity/load carrying for multiple weeks away from anywhere.If the
> boxkeel is divided up smartly,it would give you perhaps full
> standing headroom where you need it most while still being
> for heavy storage elsewhere.That is an excellent idea Peter and I will consider that. Sort of
turns it into a tugboat dosen't it? Page 287 BWAOM. So I am thinking -
the wider the box keel, the more storage area lower down - so why
not carry the sides of the box keel right out to the full width of
the boat? Shit, NOW I HAVE A LONG DEEP MICRO!!
Since there is a leaning toward a
> motorsailor,the salient keel should be more then enough fordownwind
> and reaching with the 9.9 used up wind or when in a hurry.stick
> Next,how about a flying bridge atop the pilothouse for close
> quarters manouvering.Steering could simply be a long pull/push
> run up through the cabin roof to the flying bridge( I am referingto
> one of those"old fashioned" steering sticks that look like aThis is another good idea that I am sure Mr. Bolger will get excited
> throttle arm but in fact engage the steering cable).You could put a
> couple of these steering sticks anywhere along the run of the cable
> for steering from way aft,inside the cabin and up on the roof.
about. (Hope his heart is strong:-) The other thing is a remote
control and I could use my two way hand-held to yell "Scottie I need
full ahead!!" and then press the appropriate button:-) Really impress
the lock keeper eh?
> How about a telescoping mast? If the rig is low enough,like theActually I have thought seriously about this, since I believe the
> Chinese Gaff, and we accept that it will only be used when
> conditions require the least effort from the crew, then surely one
> or two lengths of appropriately sized aluminium pipe could be made
> to slide up or down into each other for ease of removal prior to
> trailering or when approaching a low bridge.
mast should be reefable along with the sail. I think the topmast
attached to the aft part of the mainmast with a geared track would
work best. I still have a few details to work out on how to move it
up and down without effort. Of course it could be another ss cable
with a remote controled 12 volt motor - similar to the one connected
to the rudder. That way I could walk around on deck and yell orders
that include "...lower the topsail smartly lads!!"
Another thing is that a sharpie sails fastest at a certain angle of
heel which can be kept track of using a clinometer - which is a fancy
name for a plumb bob with a card behind it marked in degrees. You
have that connected to the remote control of the topmast so it will
raise and lower automatically to maintain the ideal angle of heel.
Finally you plug in the co-ordinates for your autohelm and you are
off for a serious sailing work-out. (Perhaps you might want to
activate the program that maintains the correct speed to get you
where you want to go on time as well - and the motor automatically
starts up if the speed drops below a certain point.)
> And then comes the boarding ladder.It would be nice to see a ridgidFor God's Sake Peter, this is a SERIOUS sailboat! If you want to play
> ladder mounted on the transom which would telescope down into the
> water for a few feet and make boarding real easy.
> Next comes the pool table and sauna...........oops.....wrong boat:-)
pool you do it on the laptop! However the sauna has some appeal. I
think that can be duplicated by sitting out in the sun with your
waterproofs on - can it not? (Of course you get thoroughly wet first
by the passing shower before putting them on - just as the sun comes
back out:-)
I notice you seem to have a "thing" about boarding ladders. You don't
seriously intend to use one do you? Must be for the pesky crew, who
is interested in actually doing strenuous activities at times. You
best save your strength my friend, for when she returns. However
telescopic boarding ladders are way beyond my expertise. Sounds like
a job for PCB&F!
Cheers, Nels.
Nels i'm looking forward to seeing this thing.
I prefer the liveaboard dog house for looks but the navigator cabin
would be huge. You could always have a small wheel in the house and
then a removeable auxilary tiller like JW swaggie, silver gull 19
and some old lobster boats where a bronze fitting on the end of the
tiller just slides down over the shaft at the stuffing box.....and
then stows when you go back to the dodger.
The only thing i dislike about the micro is having the outboard back
there dangling. If i ever do it again i will write PCB and beg him
to design a little well for the OB all stowed away nice and neat,
out of sight and protected from following seas.......having the OB
where the rudder was would mean a nice little outboard rudder maybe
a barn door rudder like a catboat.
Simplicity being key i would go the german, as-29 anti-kerphlumper
bow mod route.....it can't weigh that much and should do the trick.
Motorsailer or not.......you know you want the full size chinese
gaff rig.....when that wind is right you know you're going to want
to teach some punk in a catalina/milkcarton a lesson. I bet you
could just drop in the hassler rig.....same size, maybe minor
changes as the hassler is much heavier.
Jason
I prefer the liveaboard dog house for looks but the navigator cabin
would be huge. You could always have a small wheel in the house and
then a removeable auxilary tiller like JW swaggie, silver gull 19
and some old lobster boats where a bronze fitting on the end of the
tiller just slides down over the shaft at the stuffing box.....and
then stows when you go back to the dodger.
The only thing i dislike about the micro is having the outboard back
there dangling. If i ever do it again i will write PCB and beg him
to design a little well for the OB all stowed away nice and neat,
out of sight and protected from following seas.......having the OB
where the rudder was would mean a nice little outboard rudder maybe
a barn door rudder like a catboat.
Simplicity being key i would go the german, as-29 anti-kerphlumper
bow mod route.....it can't weigh that much and should do the trick.
Motorsailer or not.......you know you want the full size chinese
gaff rig.....when that wind is right you know you're going to want
to teach some punk in a catalina/milkcarton a lesson. I bet you
could just drop in the hassler rig.....same size, maybe minor
changes as the hassler is much heavier.
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
surely it's gotta be a wee bit more interesting then tea,no? Can I
replace the soap with some 15 year old Port?
Don't feel too bad about your red wine experience and consider
yourself lucky you don't live in the Northern hemisphere where we
usually fall flat on our faces,beer bellies only softening the
landing somewhat while our big rear ends point North catching
nothing but the breezes.........
The un-mentioned safety feature that all of Bolgers sharpies have is
that ,due to their relatively narrow beam compared to todays
boats,they make for an extremely safe environment from which to
absorb goodly quantities of beer,booze and wine since the roof,if
there is one,is not out of reach and the side is not far away.Always
a good hand-hold very close by.
Of course,the prudent sailor will know better then to mix fishing
with drinking....nothing worse then soaking up some good juice while
holding a rod out over the water,staring into the waves and waiting
to feel a pull on the rod.Just about gives me the willies thinking
about it :-)
Thanks for the"fortaste". I am hoping that by keeping up with a good
training regime,professional coaching from Le Mouton Noir de
Kingston,and lots of bran in my diet,I may just be able to avoid the
pitfalls of a debutante pirate.
Sincerely,
Peter"just another lost puppy" Lenihan, who thinks if you cut OINK
in half,bolt a 15 foot mid-section in place,you won't end up with a
boat like Winderemere but you will have a very excellent excuse to
be drinking all day,every day until gravity pulls you down on your
back,again, to gaze up into the fermament while asking yourself one
more time,"why me Lord,why me?"............
> Yeeeeechhhh!!!!! Go wash out your mouth with soapPeter.....Fosters
> is australian.when
> You may be correct about the tea, but then I had the same problem
> with red wine last weekend, when we were invited out for 2 days of
> fishing on a 42' cruiser. And I fell over flat on my back like a
> beetle, on the way to bed!
> It was a great trip, and a small foretaste of what you will have
> Windermere is afloat. Can a micronav be converted to aA thousand pardons Don,didn't wish to ignite the vapours:-) but
> Windermere?...I'm already working on it.
> The Haslar you mentioned looks a beauty for it's purpose......the
> never-ending lateral thinking of our genius and his partner.
surely it's gotta be a wee bit more interesting then tea,no? Can I
replace the soap with some 15 year old Port?
Don't feel too bad about your red wine experience and consider
yourself lucky you don't live in the Northern hemisphere where we
usually fall flat on our faces,beer bellies only softening the
landing somewhat while our big rear ends point North catching
nothing but the breezes.........
The un-mentioned safety feature that all of Bolgers sharpies have is
that ,due to their relatively narrow beam compared to todays
boats,they make for an extremely safe environment from which to
absorb goodly quantities of beer,booze and wine since the roof,if
there is one,is not out of reach and the side is not far away.Always
a good hand-hold very close by.
Of course,the prudent sailor will know better then to mix fishing
with drinking....nothing worse then soaking up some good juice while
holding a rod out over the water,staring into the waves and waiting
to feel a pull on the rod.Just about gives me the willies thinking
about it :-)
Thanks for the"fortaste". I am hoping that by keeping up with a good
training regime,professional coaching from Le Mouton Noir de
Kingston,and lots of bran in my diet,I may just be able to avoid the
pitfalls of a debutante pirate.
Sincerely,
Peter"just another lost puppy" Lenihan, who thinks if you cut OINK
in half,bolt a 15 foot mid-section in place,you won't end up with a
boat like Winderemere but you will have a very excellent excuse to
be drinking all day,every day until gravity pulls you down on your
back,again, to gaze up into the fermament while asking yourself one
more time,"why me Lord,why me?"............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
size it is not too hard to build,just more involved.It will improve
the ride up wind and allow greater displacement in that size range
then the standard LM thus permitting much greater storage
capacity/load carrying for multiple weeks away from anywhere.If the
boxkeel is divided up smartly,it would give you perhaps full
standing headroom where you need it most while still being excellent
for heavy storage elsewhere.Since there is a leaning toward a
motorsailor,the salient keel should be more then enough for downwind
and reaching with the 9.9 used up wind or when in a hurry.
Next,how about a flying bridge atop the pilothouse for close
quarters manouvering.Steering could simply be a long pull/push stick
run up through the cabin roof to the flying bridge( I am refering to
one of those"old fashioned" steering sticks that look like a
throttle arm but in fact engage the steering cable).You could put a
couple of these steering sticks anywhere along the run of the cable
for steering from way aft,inside the cabin and up on the roof.
How about a telescoping mast? If the rig is low enough,like the
Chinese Gaff, and we accept that it will only be used when
conditions require the least effort from the crew, then surely one
or two lengths of appropriately sized aluminium pipe could be made
to slide up or down into each other for ease of removal prior to
trailering or when approaching a low bridge.
And then comes the boarding ladder.It would be nice to see a ridgid
ladder mounted on the transom which would telescope down into the
water for a few feet and make boarding real easy.
Next comes the pool table and sauna...........oops.....wrong boat:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,in desperate need of beer,any beer,preferably cold
beer,but will accept warm beer,since it's darned difficult to buy
any beer,at 06:00 on a sunny Sunday morning in this part of the
world,degenerates that we are,selling most things 24/7 but no
blasted beer,it's enough to make me want to drink a beer,right
here,right now,if only they sold beer,any beer,preferably cold
beer...................
> > Anything else anyone can think of that they would like to seeadded,
> that the "standard" MICRO NAVIGATOR does not have? I will put themLet's see Nels.....go with a Hasler bottom since,at this smallish
> all together before I submit it for a cost estimate.
>
> Cheers, Nels
size it is not too hard to build,just more involved.It will improve
the ride up wind and allow greater displacement in that size range
then the standard LM thus permitting much greater storage
capacity/load carrying for multiple weeks away from anywhere.If the
boxkeel is divided up smartly,it would give you perhaps full
standing headroom where you need it most while still being excellent
for heavy storage elsewhere.Since there is a leaning toward a
motorsailor,the salient keel should be more then enough for downwind
and reaching with the 9.9 used up wind or when in a hurry.
Next,how about a flying bridge atop the pilothouse for close
quarters manouvering.Steering could simply be a long pull/push stick
run up through the cabin roof to the flying bridge( I am refering to
one of those"old fashioned" steering sticks that look like a
throttle arm but in fact engage the steering cable).You could put a
couple of these steering sticks anywhere along the run of the cable
for steering from way aft,inside the cabin and up on the roof.
How about a telescoping mast? If the rig is low enough,like the
Chinese Gaff, and we accept that it will only be used when
conditions require the least effort from the crew, then surely one
or two lengths of appropriately sized aluminium pipe could be made
to slide up or down into each other for ease of removal prior to
trailering or when approaching a low bridge.
And then comes the boarding ladder.It would be nice to see a ridgid
ladder mounted on the transom which would telescope down into the
water for a few feet and make boarding real easy.
Next comes the pool table and sauna...........oops.....wrong boat:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,in desperate need of beer,any beer,preferably cold
beer,but will accept warm beer,since it's darned difficult to buy
any beer,at 06:00 on a sunny Sunday morning in this part of the
world,degenerates that we are,selling most things 24/7 but no
blasted beer,it's enough to make me want to drink a beer,right
here,right now,if only they sold beer,any beer,preferably cold
beer...................
Yeeeeechhhh!!!!! Go wash out your mouth with soap Peter.....Fosters
is australian.
You may be correct about the tea, but then I had the same problem
with red wine last weekend, when we were invited out for 2 days of
fishing on a 42' cruiser. And I fell over flat on my back like a
beetle, on the way to bed!
It was a great trip, and a small foretaste of what you will have when
Windermere is afloat. Can a micronav be converted to a
Windermere?...I'm already working on it.
The Haslar you mentioned looks a beauty for it's purpose......the
never-ending lateral thinking of our genius and his partner.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
is australian.
You may be correct about the tea, but then I had the same problem
with red wine last weekend, when we were invited out for 2 days of
fishing on a 42' cruiser. And I fell over flat on my back like a
beetle, on the way to bed!
It was a great trip, and a small foretaste of what you will have when
Windermere is afloat. Can a micronav be converted to a
Windermere?...I'm already working on it.
The Haslar you mentioned looks a beauty for it's purpose......the
never-ending lateral thinking of our genius and his partner.
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
> Hi Don,bits
> I was just trying to be generous,
> since your summer is 6 months away, and figured that this would
> allow enough pressure-free time to work out any and all last minute
> booboos.....like the rudder/tiller cunundrum :-)
> It sounds like it is high time to ease off of the tea Don and
> launch yourself into high gear with some high octane
> juice .Besides,it has been my sad experience that about the only
> thing tea does is make you pee alot. Beer,on the other hand, can
> have the same effect too but at least adds some rather inspired
> of thinking/cunning/bravery to the most mundane tasks...especially
> after the 6th or 7th beer.
> Is Fosters really all that good down your way? They import it
> here and I do love those 1 litre cans it comes in.Most practical:-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
I was just trying to be generous,
since your summer is 6 months away, and figured that this would
allow enough pressure-free time to work out any and all last minute
booboos.....like the rudder/tiller cunundrum :-)
It sounds like it is high time to ease off of the tea Don and
launch yourself into high gear with some high octane
juice .Besides,it has been my sad experience that about the only
thing tea does is make you pee alot. Beer,on the other hand, can
have the same effect too but at least adds some rather inspired bits
of thinking/cunning/bravery to the most mundane tasks...especially
after the 6th or 7th beer.
Is Fosters really all that good down your way? They import it
here and I do love those 1 litre cans it comes in.Most practical:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> As to the coming summer, not here mate! You make the best of it,then
> This is awhen I
> major mystery of religious proportions, because it was perfect
> last used it. > Time for some stronger tea!Hi Don,
> DonB
>http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
>
I was just trying to be generous,
since your summer is 6 months away, and figured that this would
allow enough pressure-free time to work out any and all last minute
booboos.....like the rudder/tiller cunundrum :-)
It sounds like it is high time to ease off of the tea Don and
launch yourself into high gear with some high octane
juice .Besides,it has been my sad experience that about the only
thing tea does is make you pee alot. Beer,on the other hand, can
have the same effect too but at least adds some rather inspired bits
of thinking/cunning/bravery to the most mundane tasks...especially
after the 6th or 7th beer.
Is Fosters really all that good down your way? They import it
here and I do love those 1 litre cans it comes in.Most practical:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Or you could give Bruce a break,let him hurry up and launch his
Navigator while checking out the files section of Bolger3 here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Col.%20H.%20G.%20Hasler/
A very NEAT boat indeed :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> > Perhaps Bruce can post a link to the article as I could not findone.
Or you could give Bruce a break,let him hurry up and launch his
Navigator while checking out the files section of Bolger3 here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Col.%20H.%20G.%20Hasler/
A very NEAT boat indeed :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microcruising/
It is mostly about LITTLE CRUISER and PARADOX, but also a lot of
interest in Bolger and Welsford designs.
Are you not familar with The COLONEL HASLER? It is a 20X8X2' single
handed circumnavigator in steel and has a box keel with a bow
somewhat like the WINDERMERE. PCB mentioned to me in a fax that he
might be considering a plywood version. Way more complicated than an
LMNav in my view. The recommended engine for it is the T9.9 Yamaha,
which they say is more than enough.
Perhaps Bruce can post a link to the article as I could not find one.
Cheers, Nels
> By the way Nels, what is a Hasler bottom? Not heard of it.Bolger
> You also mentioned micros on another Group. I only know the 4
> Groups.....is there another?I posted your website at this group:
> DonB
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microcruising/
It is mostly about LITTLE CRUISER and PARADOX, but also a lot of
interest in Bolger and Welsford designs.
Are you not familar with The COLONEL HASLER? It is a 20X8X2' single
handed circumnavigator in steel and has a box keel with a bow
somewhat like the WINDERMERE. PCB mentioned to me in a fax that he
might be considering a plywood version. Way more complicated than an
LMNav in my view. The recommended engine for it is the T9.9 Yamaha,
which they say is more than enough.
Perhaps Bruce can post a link to the article as I could not find one.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
All excellent suggestions.. The big question is where to place the
wheel? I guess up front like a "real motorsailer". Then perhaps still
have a tiller avaiable at the stern for those days you just don't
want to be inside - don't want to be tracking into the living space -
and are not using the engine, or needing the compass.
Excellent point about motoring with the boat upright. I will likely
have some practice with Lestat to see what happens with the pounding.
And we did use aluminum tabernacles on our wind masts!
And yes motoring along with a high thrust 4-stroke not much above
idle, would mean you would hardly hear it from inside the cabin. It
will be rather frightening to realize the motor is probably worth
more than the boat, but I am getting to that time in life where
convenience is beginning to have it's advantages. Not quite as
hedonistic as Peter the Pirate, and also wishing to maintain a facade
of being "out there sailing".
I am even considering just using the stardard sized MICRO Chinese lug
so the mast won't be that tall and yet it will still "look" like a
sailboat:-) Probably the mizzen can be shortened as well. The thing
is, with the same beam as MICRO and a longer waterline, with the sail
up higher, it will probably move along not badly.
One thing I have heard is that the anchor handling is kind of awkward
with that tabernacle right up in the bow so I wonder if I should
mount the hook in a side opening and have the boarding steps on the
opposite side?
Anything else anyone can think of that they would like to see added,
that the "standard" MICRO NAVIGATOR does not have? I will put them
all together before I submit it for a cost estimate.
Cheers, Nels
> Hi Nels,Greetings Don
> Glad to hear you are still thinking of an LMNav.
All excellent suggestions.. The big question is where to place the
wheel? I guess up front like a "real motorsailer". Then perhaps still
have a tiller avaiable at the stern for those days you just don't
want to be inside - don't want to be tracking into the living space -
and are not using the engine, or needing the compass.
Excellent point about motoring with the boat upright. I will likely
have some practice with Lestat to see what happens with the pounding.
And we did use aluminum tabernacles on our wind masts!
And yes motoring along with a high thrust 4-stroke not much above
idle, would mean you would hardly hear it from inside the cabin. It
will be rather frightening to realize the motor is probably worth
more than the boat, but I am getting to that time in life where
convenience is beginning to have it's advantages. Not quite as
hedonistic as Peter the Pirate, and also wishing to maintain a facade
of being "out there sailing".
I am even considering just using the stardard sized MICRO Chinese lug
so the mast won't be that tall and yet it will still "look" like a
sailboat:-) Probably the mizzen can be shortened as well. The thing
is, with the same beam as MICRO and a longer waterline, with the sail
up higher, it will probably move along not badly.
One thing I have heard is that the anchor handling is kind of awkward
with that tabernacle right up in the bow so I wonder if I should
mount the hook in a side opening and have the boarding steps on the
opposite side?
Anything else anyone can think of that they would like to see added,
that the "standard" MICRO NAVIGATOR does not have? I will put them
all together before I submit it for a cost estimate.
Cheers, Nels
Hi Peter,
Yes, you are the creator of one of the shapeliest bottoms in the
Group...........most of us are just end users :-)
As to the coming summer, not here mate! You make the best of it, then
send it back down here.
I had experiences today - went to buy the bottom paint as you
insisted, and there was no-one there and the shop closed. I forgot
everything was closed on ANZAC day....our war dead remembrance day.
So went home again. :-(
Then, fixing my tiller to the rudder stock, there was no way to end
up with it pointing in the same direction as the rudder! This is a
major mystery of religious proportions, because it was perfect when I
last used it. Probably punishment for trying to shop on this day.
Wobbling on the stepladder above the rear slot, cursing, I realized
that a slip would have me straight down, until my head stopped at the
slot. So I went inside, had a cup of tea, and into the garage to glue
extra cheeks to the tiller, having given up trying to understand.
Next, some time marvelling at the two perfect circlip sized rings
worn around the 3/8" bolt where it passed through the ss tube rudder
stock.
Time for some stronger tea!
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
Yes, you are the creator of one of the shapeliest bottoms in the
Group...........most of us are just end users :-)
As to the coming summer, not here mate! You make the best of it, then
send it back down here.
I had experiences today - went to buy the bottom paint as you
insisted, and there was no-one there and the shop closed. I forgot
everything was closed on ANZAC day....our war dead remembrance day.
So went home again. :-(
Then, fixing my tiller to the rudder stock, there was no way to end
up with it pointing in the same direction as the rudder! This is a
major mystery of religious proportions, because it was perfect when I
last used it. Probably punishment for trying to shop on this day.
Wobbling on the stepladder above the rear slot, cursing, I realized
that a slip would have me straight down, until my head stopped at the
slot. So I went inside, had a cup of tea, and into the garage to glue
extra cheeks to the tiller, having given up trying to understand.
Next, some time marvelling at the two perfect circlip sized rings
worn around the 3/8" bolt where it passed through the ss tube rudder
stock.
Time for some stronger tea!
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
> Windermere's lovely bottom works are the result of having the)
> box keel. For a shape and size like a LM,I would be sorely tempted
> to try a TOPAZ like fillet piece to smooth out the ride since it
> rquires a simple backbone/keelson structure to support it.
> However,it would be an equally interesting excercise to blend
> the bottom of say a Col.Hassler(sp) to the LM :-)
> Just checked out your web page again and noticed that it has
> been tweeked and improved! Very nice work! Can't wait,like many
> others I'm sure, to see some sailing photos of OINK in a fair
> breeze.....hurry and get her bottom painted soon,summer is coming ;-
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan
By the way Nels, what is a Hasler bottom? Not heard of it.
You also mentioned micros on another Group. I only know the 4 Bolger
Groups.....is there another?
DonB
You also mentioned micros on another Group. I only know the 4 Bolger
Groups.....is there another?
DonB
Hi Nels,
Glad to hear you are still thinking of an LMNav.
Some random thoughts- an inside cable steering situation gives you
the excuse for a traditional turned mahogany ships wheel, and
attendant brass instrumentation.
You got me thinking about motorsailing, which looks more and more the
future as one becomes confused......working on that.
If you get a 4-stroke plugger, the filleted bow would be a must,
because upright is when the jarring and shudders happen to a sharpie,
even if you can live with the chuckles and gurgles at anchor.
Sponsons would work quite well to support the heavier motor, sinking
or not. Easy to build from scratch in a new boat.
Have you considered a steel or aluminium tabernacle for your folding
mast? I think timber ones always look grossly massive (as they may
have to be) compared with the size of boat. Metal could be a lot
neater and stronger.
Mr Keyes can stay at sea for 3 weeks, because you can still catch
fish in this part of the world :-)
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
Glad to hear you are still thinking of an LMNav.
Some random thoughts- an inside cable steering situation gives you
the excuse for a traditional turned mahogany ships wheel, and
attendant brass instrumentation.
You got me thinking about motorsailing, which looks more and more the
future as one becomes confused......working on that.
If you get a 4-stroke plugger, the filleted bow would be a must,
because upright is when the jarring and shudders happen to a sharpie,
even if you can live with the chuckles and gurgles at anchor.
Sponsons would work quite well to support the heavier motor, sinking
or not. Easy to build from scratch in a new boat.
Have you considered a steel or aluminium tabernacle for your folding
mast? I think timber ones always look grossly massive (as they may
have to be) compared with the size of boat. Metal could be a lot
neater and stronger.
Mr Keyes can stay at sea for 3 weeks, because you can still catch
fish in this part of the world :-)
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
> wrote:
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
> > Windermere's
> > > has come out looking very good, and it seems a simple enough
> > job....
> > >
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Windermere's lovely bottom works are the result of having
the
> > box keel. For a shape and size like a LM,I would be sorely
tempted
> > to try a TOPAZ like fillet piece to smooth out the ride since it
> > rquires a simple backbone/keelson structure to support it.
> > However,it would be an equally interesting excercise to
blend
> > the bottom of say a Col.Hassler(sp) to the LM :-)
>
> Fess up Peter... Windermere's bottom works because you admire the
> nicely full and rounded cheeks!
>
> To answer Don's query - I still have a few decisions to make before
> approaching PCB&F with my design for an LM Nav.
>
> My initial idea was to do the TOPAZ bow fillet - which seems to be
a
> natural for the LM. Then Peter brings up the idea of a HASLER
bottom,
> which I will have to look into now. Not sure what the prime
advantage
> would be. I do not want a centerboard - since that is one of the
> major advantages of the MICROs to begin with!
>
> Also I am waiting for the sea trials of Bruce Hallman's NAV - as
well
> as Don's. Oink of course has become as long as an LM and may people
> are calling it the LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR on another group:-)
>
> My main focus when building it is to use it as a motorsailer. This
is
> because I would love to have a good sized 4-stroke Yamaha sitting
on
> the stern at the end of the day when I want to return directly to a
> sheltered nook, regardless of the wind direction. In other words a
> lot of my upwind sailing will include the use of the motor. Also
the
> motor would have a large enough alternator to actually do some
> battery charging. I am really impressed with the regular MICRO's
> ability to handle a larger motor, and the extended sponsons like
OINK
> has is really interesting!
>
> There are two decisions I have to make and that is regarding the
sail
> plan and the location of the steering station.
>
> With a LONG MICRO you cannot simply extend the tiller to get it
> inside the pilot house. Also the tabernacle will have to be taller
so
> the main mast will lie horizontal when lowered.
>
> So first I have to decide if I want all the control lines to go aft
> to the original tiller position or have an inside steering and
> control station. Secondly, if the tabernacle is taller, can I
change
> the bow so the bottom of the mast can clear it without having it
(the
> bow) open?
>
> Another idea is to have a doghouse like the one person liveaboard
> that has an extended overhang aft so the boat can be controlled
from
> there. This way the cabin is not taken up by the complications of
an
> inside steering station and all the control lines. So perhaps
> something like Roger Keyes has.
>
> Another idea that intrigues me is to have the ability to raise and
> lower the mast from the steering station. I have had a lot of
> experience with tilt-down wind instrument masts from when I worked
in
> the weather department - ranging in height from 10 to 30 meters.
>
> That way when I see a storm or darkness approaching, I have the
> option of dropping the mast and having a LONG MICRO TRAWLER:-)
>
> Some additional information that I found really useful was that
Roger
> Keyes makes voyages of up to three weeks, with his MICRO and that
he
> is able to use the standard sail plan with a doghouse. How he is
able
> to go out like that, around some of those peninsulas with only a
> yuloh and that short waterline is beyond my ability to comprehend.
>
> Now that is of course, what separates the kids from the REAL
sailors!
>
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
wrote:
nicely full and rounded cheeks!
To answer Don's query - I still have a few decisions to make before
approaching PCB&F with my design for an LM Nav.
My initial idea was to do the TOPAZ bow fillet - which seems to be a
natural for the LM. Then Peter brings up the idea of a HASLER bottom,
which I will have to look into now. Not sure what the prime advantage
would be. I do not want a centerboard - since that is one of the
major advantages of the MICROs to begin with!
Also I am waiting for the sea trials of Bruce Hallman's NAV - as well
as Don's. Oink of course has become as long as an LM and may people
are calling it the LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR on another group:-)
My main focus when building it is to use it as a motorsailer. This is
because I would love to have a good sized 4-stroke Yamaha sitting on
the stern at the end of the day when I want to return directly to a
sheltered nook, regardless of the wind direction. In other words a
lot of my upwind sailing will include the use of the motor. Also the
motor would have a large enough alternator to actually do some
battery charging. I am really impressed with the regular MICRO's
ability to handle a larger motor, and the extended sponsons like OINK
has is really interesting!
There are two decisions I have to make and that is regarding the sail
plan and the location of the steering station.
With a LONG MICRO you cannot simply extend the tiller to get it
inside the pilot house. Also the tabernacle will have to be taller so
the main mast will lie horizontal when lowered.
So first I have to decide if I want all the control lines to go aft
to the original tiller position or have an inside steering and
control station. Secondly, if the tabernacle is taller, can I change
the bow so the bottom of the mast can clear it without having it (the
bow) open?
Another idea is to have a doghouse like the one person liveaboard
that has an extended overhang aft so the boat can be controlled from
there. This way the cabin is not taken up by the complications of an
inside steering station and all the control lines. So perhaps
something like Roger Keyes has.
Another idea that intrigues me is to have the ability to raise and
lower the mast from the steering station. I have had a lot of
experience with tilt-down wind instrument masts from when I worked in
the weather department - ranging in height from 10 to 30 meters.
That way when I see a storm or darkness approaching, I have the
option of dropping the mast and having a LONG MICRO TRAWLER:-)
Some additional information that I found really useful was that Roger
Keyes makes voyages of up to three weeks, with his MICRO and that he
is able to use the standard sail plan with a doghouse. How he is able
to go out like that, around some of those peninsulas with only a
yuloh and that short waterline is beyond my ability to comprehend.
Now that is of course, what separates the kids from the REAL sailors!
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:Fess up Peter... Windermere's bottom works because you admire the
> Windermere's
> > has come out looking very good, and it seems a simple enough
> job....
> >
> Hi Don,
>
> Windermere's lovely bottom works are the result of having the
> box keel. For a shape and size like a LM,I would be sorely tempted
> to try a TOPAZ like fillet piece to smooth out the ride since it
> rquires a simple backbone/keelson structure to support it.
> However,it would be an equally interesting excercise to blend
> the bottom of say a Col.Hassler(sp) to the LM :-)
nicely full and rounded cheeks!
To answer Don's query - I still have a few decisions to make before
approaching PCB&F with my design for an LM Nav.
My initial idea was to do the TOPAZ bow fillet - which seems to be a
natural for the LM. Then Peter brings up the idea of a HASLER bottom,
which I will have to look into now. Not sure what the prime advantage
would be. I do not want a centerboard - since that is one of the
major advantages of the MICROs to begin with!
Also I am waiting for the sea trials of Bruce Hallman's NAV - as well
as Don's. Oink of course has become as long as an LM and may people
are calling it the LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR on another group:-)
My main focus when building it is to use it as a motorsailer. This is
because I would love to have a good sized 4-stroke Yamaha sitting on
the stern at the end of the day when I want to return directly to a
sheltered nook, regardless of the wind direction. In other words a
lot of my upwind sailing will include the use of the motor. Also the
motor would have a large enough alternator to actually do some
battery charging. I am really impressed with the regular MICRO's
ability to handle a larger motor, and the extended sponsons like OINK
has is really interesting!
There are two decisions I have to make and that is regarding the sail
plan and the location of the steering station.
With a LONG MICRO you cannot simply extend the tiller to get it
inside the pilot house. Also the tabernacle will have to be taller so
the main mast will lie horizontal when lowered.
So first I have to decide if I want all the control lines to go aft
to the original tiller position or have an inside steering and
control station. Secondly, if the tabernacle is taller, can I change
the bow so the bottom of the mast can clear it without having it (the
bow) open?
Another idea is to have a doghouse like the one person liveaboard
that has an extended overhang aft so the boat can be controlled from
there. This way the cabin is not taken up by the complications of an
inside steering station and all the control lines. So perhaps
something like Roger Keyes has.
Another idea that intrigues me is to have the ability to raise and
lower the mast from the steering station. I have had a lot of
experience with tilt-down wind instrument masts from when I worked in
the weather department - ranging in height from 10 to 30 meters.
That way when I see a storm or darkness approaching, I have the
option of dropping the mast and having a LONG MICRO TRAWLER:-)
Some additional information that I found really useful was that Roger
Keyes makes voyages of up to three weeks, with his MICRO and that he
is able to use the standard sail plan with a doghouse. How he is able
to go out like that, around some of those peninsulas with only a
yuloh and that short waterline is beyond my ability to comprehend.
Now that is of course, what separates the kids from the REAL sailors!
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
Windermere's
> has come out looking very good, and it seems a simple enough
job....
>
Hi Don,
Windermere's lovely bottom works are the result of having the
box keel. For a shape and size like a LM,I would be sorely tempted
to try a TOPAZ like fillet piece to smooth out the ride since it
rquires a simple backbone/keelson structure to support it.
However,it would be an equally interesting excercise to blend
the bottom of say a Col.Hassler(sp) to the LM :-)
Just checked out your web page again and noticed that it has
been tweeked and improved! Very nice work! Can't wait,like many
others I'm sure, to see some sailing photos of OINK in a fair
breeze.....hurry and get her bottom painted soon,summer is coming ;-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Hi Nels, have your LM plans gelled yet?
Have you thought about asking Bolger to do a filleted bow sketch for
you? I would think that if you intend to live aboard, that would be a
very time and cost effective, let alone comfortable mod. Windermere's
has come out looking very good, and it seems a simple enough job....
compared with cabin windows and rigging.......perhaps a little extra
work on the hull would be worthwhile by comparison?
Spurred on by the photo of the aussie micro with box cabin, I shipped
my rudder today, and off to buy anti-fouling (shudder at cost)
tomorrow,
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
Have you thought about asking Bolger to do a filleted bow sketch for
you? I would think that if you intend to live aboard, that would be a
very time and cost effective, let alone comfortable mod. Windermere's
has come out looking very good, and it seems a simple enough job....
compared with cabin windows and rigging.......perhaps a little extra
work on the hull would be worthwhile by comparison?
Spurred on by the photo of the aussie micro with box cabin, I shipped
my rudder today, and off to buy anti-fouling (shudder at cost)
tomorrow,
DonB
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/