Re: micro sheer clamp......how?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
trailer... Nels
> > the micro rubrailI would like add that this is also handy even when the boat is on a
>> Also, I am fond of my extra deep rubrail
> on one side which gives me a toe-hold to shimmy
> around the Navigator Cabin, [PCB approved.]
trailer... Nels
Peter- thanks for the explaination on both the keel and the rub
rails.
I did'nt realize you used a different keel assembly than the plans,
thanks though. I think the keel assembly want be too tough. I'm
going to build it up after i glass the hull and get the batten on,
then i'm just going to set it aside till i drag her out for the
finishing and mount it then. The flipping was brutal the first time.
I've since added the two navigator frames and pulled thge temps and
i've started the seat and air box framing so it should be a good 50 -
75 lbs. heavier the 2nd time around. Then once i get the glass and
wpoxy on another 15.......i better start being nice to the neibor
kids......the pissed me off saying it was goofy looking :)
Bruce thanks for the rub rail info.
I got my sheer claps on both inner and outer on one side i'll do the
other some time this week. My problem was i was trying to use 1.5
x .75 to beef it up........tisk, tisk. Not what bolger specified. I
went with the .75(+)x.75(+) and it flopped right in place.....only a
few curses to persuade it. I used oak for the rails and everone here
says "oak don't glue and rots easy" so I clamped both sides in place
and just drove some 2" stainless screws right through the outside
rail through the hull and only in one or to places did the tips poke
through the inner rail......all of those places out of sight in the
flooding wells....i'll grind them later. I measured the screws and
spaced them evenly the SS heads seated nice and look good. I'll coat
it all with epoxy so the water stays out.
As for the rub rail, i've got to make a little scribe/transfer jig
as my marks are on the inside of the hull (dumb!). Like you said
bruce tough to bend the 2 inches up to follow the sheer so i'm
laminating several pieces together like you did. I noticed that the
navigator sheet shows bigger rails and i figured if they were 1.5
inches thick i could scoot around the cabin using those and the hand
rails i'm going to put on the cabin top......there i go again
deviating from the plans. It's your fault bruce i thought yours
looked good. If it was'nt for your pictures and oink online i'd be
lost.
Thanks for everyones help
Launch by 2027 or bust!
Jason
rails.
I did'nt realize you used a different keel assembly than the plans,
thanks though. I think the keel assembly want be too tough. I'm
going to build it up after i glass the hull and get the batten on,
then i'm just going to set it aside till i drag her out for the
finishing and mount it then. The flipping was brutal the first time.
I've since added the two navigator frames and pulled thge temps and
i've started the seat and air box framing so it should be a good 50 -
75 lbs. heavier the 2nd time around. Then once i get the glass and
wpoxy on another 15.......i better start being nice to the neibor
kids......the pissed me off saying it was goofy looking :)
Bruce thanks for the rub rail info.
I got my sheer claps on both inner and outer on one side i'll do the
other some time this week. My problem was i was trying to use 1.5
x .75 to beef it up........tisk, tisk. Not what bolger specified. I
went with the .75(+)x.75(+) and it flopped right in place.....only a
few curses to persuade it. I used oak for the rails and everone here
says "oak don't glue and rots easy" so I clamped both sides in place
and just drove some 2" stainless screws right through the outside
rail through the hull and only in one or to places did the tips poke
through the inner rail......all of those places out of sight in the
flooding wells....i'll grind them later. I measured the screws and
spaced them evenly the SS heads seated nice and look good. I'll coat
it all with epoxy so the water stays out.
As for the rub rail, i've got to make a little scribe/transfer jig
as my marks are on the inside of the hull (dumb!). Like you said
bruce tough to bend the 2 inches up to follow the sheer so i'm
laminating several pieces together like you did. I noticed that the
navigator sheet shows bigger rails and i figured if they were 1.5
inches thick i could scoot around the cabin using those and the hand
rails i'm going to put on the cabin top......there i go again
deviating from the plans. It's your fault bruce i thought yours
looked good. If it was'nt for your pictures and oink online i'd be
lost.
Thanks for everyones help
Launch by 2027 or bust!
Jason
I just mounted my rubrails on Saturday so it's fresh in my mind that the
standard plans call for 2: 1/2" thick layers, the inner one is supposed to
be 2 1/2" by 1/2", outer is something like 1 1/4" x 1/2". I'd decided to go
with a single piece of 3/4" x 2 1/2" but it just wouldn't make the bend; I
ripped 1/2" off and the 3/4" x 2" rails went on, but still required a fair
bit of force.
I'd pre-bent my rails by suspending them between a bench and a stool and
leaving a 40lb weight on the middle for about 2 weeks; this made them sag to
almost follow the boat's hull shape by themselves in the horizontal; but the
bend in the vertical dimension was tough! They are now temporarily screwed
on, before sticking them on chemically I will pull the boat out of the shed
and have a look from different angles/distances to be sure I'm happy, for as
Peter mentioned, this line is very important in the overall appearance of
the boat. I plan to leave them screwed on for a couple weeks and work on
other stuff, let 'em get used to their new shape a bit before I go back and
wrestle with them again to get the epoxy in between them and the hull; might
make it go a bit easier.
By the way Peter, thanks for the tip on the Sikkens Cetol. Great stuff;
really rich color and very easy to work with! Makes my bargain
pseudo-mahogany look like expensive teak!
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
already noticed.] The rubrail bends
in two directions. I don't have
my plans handy, but I recall the
Micro rubrail is about 3/4" by 2"?
The 3/4" direction bends easily with
the width of the boat, but the 2"
direction is a much tougher bend
following the shear line.
standard plans call for 2: 1/2" thick layers, the inner one is supposed to
be 2 1/2" by 1/2", outer is something like 1 1/4" x 1/2". I'd decided to go
with a single piece of 3/4" x 2 1/2" but it just wouldn't make the bend; I
ripped 1/2" off and the 3/4" x 2" rails went on, but still required a fair
bit of force.
I'd pre-bent my rails by suspending them between a bench and a stool and
leaving a 40lb weight on the middle for about 2 weeks; this made them sag to
almost follow the boat's hull shape by themselves in the horizontal; but the
bend in the vertical dimension was tough! They are now temporarily screwed
on, before sticking them on chemically I will pull the boat out of the shed
and have a look from different angles/distances to be sure I'm happy, for as
Peter mentioned, this line is very important in the overall appearance of
the boat. I plan to leave them screwed on for a couple weeks and work on
other stuff, let 'em get used to their new shape a bit before I go back and
wrestle with them again to get the epoxy in between them and the hull; might
make it go a bit easier.
By the way Peter, thanks for the tip on the Sikkens Cetol. Great stuff;
really rich color and very easy to work with! Makes my bargain
pseudo-mahogany look like expensive teak!
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
> the micro rubrailWorth mentioning, [if you have not
already noticed.] The rubrail bends
in two directions. I don't have
my plans handy, but I recall the
Micro rubrail is about 3/4" by 2"?
The 3/4" direction bends easily with
the width of the boat, but the 2"
direction is a much tougher bend
following the shear line.
> the micro rubrailWorth mentioning, [if you have not
already noticed.] The rubrail bends
in two directions. I don't have
my plans handy, but I recall the
Micro rubrail is about 3/4" by 2"?
The 3/4" direction bends easily with
the width of the boat, but the 2"
direction is a much tougher bend
following the shear line. Avoid
the temptation to increase the
2" dimension because you will not
be able to follow the shear line
bend.
If you want a wider rubrail, [like
I did], you need to make it up from
multiple pieces. I chose to use three
3/4" x 1 1/2" strips plus an overlay
of two 3/4" x 1 1/2" strips ripped from
nice D.Fir 2x6's.
Worth a debate, the sail plan drawing
of the Micro Navigator seems to show
a wider rubrail than the rubrail
shown on the standard Micro. [To my
eye at least!] Also the stern transom
of the Navigator shows a very wide rubrail
[not shown on the standard Micro transom].
I interpreted this to mean the Navigator
has a wider rubrail all around, including
a rubrail across the bow transom.
Also, I am fond of my extra deep rubrail
on one side which gives me a toe-hold to shimmy
around the Navigator Cabin, [PCB approved.]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
It "means" that this is what is going to be happening as you
remove the rubrail from its "dry fit" stage,prior to hollowing and
gluing.You want to make sure the end being freed from the crews does
not fall off and crack uncerimoniously.Also,do not back out the
screws too far since you want to keep just a little point sticking
out proud to serve as guide points for perfect re-attachment.This is
most helpful since a rub rail loaded with glue is going to be one
slippy snake and with it smearing all over the place :-), you'll be
hard pressed to find your pencil line again underneath the glue.......
Hope this makes better sense and that it is not too late to be
helpful!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex owner/builder of Lestat.........
wrote:
> > Now,working backwards,back out the screws only enough toJason,
> > release the rubrail while your helper holds the now straightening
> > out end and keeps it from twisting and breaking.
>
> Huh? what does that mean?
It "means" that this is what is going to be happening as you
remove the rubrail from its "dry fit" stage,prior to hollowing and
gluing.You want to make sure the end being freed from the crews does
not fall off and crack uncerimoniously.Also,do not back out the
screws too far since you want to keep just a little point sticking
out proud to serve as guide points for perfect re-attachment.This is
most helpful since a rub rail loaded with glue is going to be one
slippy snake and with it smearing all over the place :-), you'll be
hard pressed to find your pencil line again underneath the glue.......
Hope this makes better sense and that it is not too late to be
helpful!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex owner/builder of Lestat.........
--- "Jason Stancil" wrote:
please post the URL link to
your Micro photo album?]
Two pieces of 3/4" square
wood will bend tighter
curves than one piece
3/4" x 1 1/2". Especially
if the curves are in three
dimensions.
Also, I made many of the
tight bends by not bending
but simply cutting a curved
piece of wood to fit the curve.
One unanticipated curve issue
that I am just encountering
is that the camber of the
roof of my boat has eased by
two inches in the heat of
California Spring, versus
the cool of last winter.
This has implications to the
fit of the sliding roof hatch
which I am presently dealing!
> No way that sheer clamp[Could you, or someone,
> is making that bend
please post the URL link to
your Micro photo album?]
Two pieces of 3/4" square
wood will bend tighter
curves than one piece
3/4" x 1 1/2". Especially
if the curves are in three
dimensions.
Also, I made many of the
tight bends by not bending
but simply cutting a curved
piece of wood to fit the curve.
One unanticipated curve issue
that I am just encountering
is that the camber of the
roof of my boat has eased by
two inches in the heat of
California Spring, versus
the cool of last winter.
This has implications to the
fit of the sliding roof hatch
which I am presently dealing!
Dry fit the shear clamps,and simply have a tight butt joint
i'll have to make a little jig to scribe it to the ouside.....since
i did a two for one cut i've got no lines on the starboard side. I
was thinking of marking the points on the side from the the
assembled expansion on the plans and hoping the the rub rail itself
would form a fair curve......if it's not quite right i do both sides
this way so they are symetrically goofy.......so much for saving
time doing the two for one cut.
Are you going with a one piece rubrail or two piece as on the
(unless it involves putting big ass holes in my transoms) I'm
thinking of doing mine like bruce hallman's navigator. Because, i'm
manhandling it solo and i figure i can put the thin pieces in easier
than that one big inner rail. Also i hate scarfing and the multiple
pieces will self scarf due to it neiboring strip. I'll see how it
goes.
Jason
> where they change their sweep.Thats what i figured would have to do
> For the rub rails;I hope that you traced out its' sweep on theYeah that will be a challange. The port side has lines on inside so
> side panels,while it was laying flat on the floor, and that it was
> done "perfectly" sweet and fair.
i'll have to make a little jig to scribe it to the ouside.....since
i did a two for one cut i've got no lines on the starboard side. I
was thinking of marking the points on the side from the the
assembled expansion on the plans and hoping the the rub rail itself
would form a fair curve......if it's not quite right i do both sides
this way so they are symetrically goofy.......so much for saving
time doing the two for one cut.
> Now,working backwards,back out the screws only enough toHuh? what does that mean?
> release the rubrail while your helper holds the now straightening
> out end and keeps it from twisting and breaking.
Are you going with a one piece rubrail or two piece as on the
> plans(I think!)?Two pieces on the plans.....but being incapable of doing as i'm told
(unless it involves putting big ass holes in my transoms) I'm
thinking of doing mine like bruce hallman's navigator. Because, i'm
manhandling it solo and i figure i can put the thin pieces in easier
than that one big inner rail. Also i hate scarfing and the multiple
pieces will self scarf due to it neiboring strip. I'll see how it
goes.
> Hope this helps.yep thanks
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Dry fit the shear clamps,and simply have a tight butt joint
where they change their sweep.
For the rub rails;I hope that you traced out its' sweep on the
side panels,while it was laying flat on the floor, and that it was
done "perfectly" sweet and fair. Use that line to guide your install
of the rub rail.Beginning at the bow and with a helper holding up
the aft end of the rubrail start by screwing the rubrail down from
the inside out.Get a screw in say every foot or so and be most
particular about following the traced line.A less then perfectly
fair curve in your rubrail will stick out like a sore
thumb,especially on a slab sided hull.As you slowly work your aft
make sure your helper understands this as they apply a nice steady
pressure to the rubrail.Once she is all installed,take the time to
look her over a few times from many angles to ensure she is in fact
perfectly fair.
Now,working backwards,back out the screws only enough to
release the rubrail while your helper holds the now straightening
out end and keeps it from twisting and breaking. If you want to be
fussy,you may wish to put a hollow on the back face of the rub rail
before offering her up for the permanent install.Into this
hollow,lay in your favorite poison(epoxy or 3m5200) and then proceed
to re-install the rubrail using a few proud screws to align the rail
perfectly back into the correct postition.
Are you going with a one piece rubrail or two piece as on the
plans(I think!)?
Hope this helps.
Peter Lenihan
wrote:
> I went to try and dry fit the rub rails and sheer clamps tonite.No
> way that sheer clamp is making that bend by the cockpit/cabinJason,
> interface. Further more bolger navigator conversion drawing has a
> sharp cut......bruce's navigator looks like that.....yet oink
> does'nt. Feedback would be appreciated before i take the jigsaw to
> the hull.
> Thanks,
> Jason
Dry fit the shear clamps,and simply have a tight butt joint
where they change their sweep.
For the rub rails;I hope that you traced out its' sweep on the
side panels,while it was laying flat on the floor, and that it was
done "perfectly" sweet and fair. Use that line to guide your install
of the rub rail.Beginning at the bow and with a helper holding up
the aft end of the rubrail start by screwing the rubrail down from
the inside out.Get a screw in say every foot or so and be most
particular about following the traced line.A less then perfectly
fair curve in your rubrail will stick out like a sore
thumb,especially on a slab sided hull.As you slowly work your aft
make sure your helper understands this as they apply a nice steady
pressure to the rubrail.Once she is all installed,take the time to
look her over a few times from many angles to ensure she is in fact
perfectly fair.
Now,working backwards,back out the screws only enough to
release the rubrail while your helper holds the now straightening
out end and keeps it from twisting and breaking. If you want to be
fussy,you may wish to put a hollow on the back face of the rub rail
before offering her up for the permanent install.Into this
hollow,lay in your favorite poison(epoxy or 3m5200) and then proceed
to re-install the rubrail using a few proud screws to align the rail
perfectly back into the correct postition.
Are you going with a one piece rubrail or two piece as on the
plans(I think!)?
Hope this helps.
Peter Lenihan
I went to try and dry fit the rub rails and sheer clamps tonite. No
way that sheer clamp is making that bend by the cockpit/cabin
interface. Further more bolger navigator conversion drawing has a
sharp cut......bruce's navigator looks like that.....yet oink
does'nt. Feedback would be appreciated before i take the jigsaw to
the hull.
Thanks,
Jason
way that sheer clamp is making that bend by the cockpit/cabin
interface. Further more bolger navigator conversion drawing has a
sharp cut......bruce's navigator looks like that.....yet oink
does'nt. Feedback would be appreciated before i take the jigsaw to
the hull.
Thanks,
Jason