[bolger] Re: bolgerish J24/catamaran
The design competion that the Tiki 21 won was in 1982 for the
best Cruising World Trailerable Gunkholer. The heaviest part of
the boat is the hulls at 175 pounds each. Easy for a couple
guys to pick up and carry to the trailer.
Bolger content - You can carry a couple of your favorite
Bolger boxes on deck to play with when you get to where your
going.
Ron
49`32'N - 123`44'W
best Cruising World Trailerable Gunkholer. The heaviest part of
the boat is the hulls at 175 pounds each. Easy for a couple
guys to pick up and carry to the trailer.
Bolger content - You can carry a couple of your favorite
Bolger boxes on deck to play with when you get to where your
going.
Ron
49`32'N - 123`44'W
>From: "David Jost" <djost@...>
> The catamaran really does not fit the bill in that it would be
> very difficult to transport overland at the end of the season.
As I understand the TIKI 21 design, it does fit in the "trailerable
with difficulty" category, as the hulls are relatively light and easy
to separate. Not for hauling to the lake for an afternoon's sail
(though he has a great little 17-footer), but no problem for summer
mooring/winter backyard use.
Matthew
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3678
with difficulty" category, as the hulls are relatively light and easy
to separate. Not for hauling to the lake for an afternoon's sail
(though he has a great little 17-footer), but no problem for summer
mooring/winter backyard use.
Matthew
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3678
> The catamaran really does not fit the bill in that it would bevery
> difficult to transport overland at the end of the season.
> The catamaran really does not fit the bill in that it would bevery
> difficult to transport overland at the end of the season.long.
> So far, I like the Red Zinger idea the best although it is a bit too
> David JostWhat you need is the Bolger Folding Schooner Sharpie Catamaran ...
The catamaran idea is actually a pretty good one. the Wharram
catamaran has been around for a long time. I am also pretty partial to
Marples constant camber designs. these boats just do not have a lot of
people space on them. And should not be loaded down with lots of
ammenities. 10kts in a 21 foot boat is nothing to sniff at. If a good
shelter could be rigged via a boom tent etc. . . it could be quite
liveable for a couple of days. since it will do 10kts it should cover
enough ground in a day to take me to some really interesting places.
The corsair F24 is a good example of a pocket multihull, but it
costs over 40K! that is just simple outrageous. I could feed the
hungry for quite a while on that kind of bread.
David Jost "Key West sounds nice right now, get me outta here!"
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
catamaran has been around for a long time. I am also pretty partial to
Marples constant camber designs. these boats just do not have a lot of
people space on them. And should not be loaded down with lots of
ammenities. 10kts in a 21 foot boat is nothing to sniff at. If a good
shelter could be rigged via a boom tent etc. . . it could be quite
liveable for a couple of days. since it will do 10kts it should cover
enough ground in a day to take me to some really interesting places.
The corsair F24 is a good example of a pocket multihull, but it
costs over 40K! that is just simple outrageous. I could feed the
hungry for quite a while on that kind of bread.
David Jost "Key West sounds nice right now, get me outta here!"
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
That would be a great boat for when the kids are teenagers. I could
send each of them into a separate hull with their own headphones and
forget about them. Or, they could mutiny and put me in there.
The catamaran really does not fit the bill in that it would be very
difficult to transport overland at the end of the season.
So far, I like the Red Zinger idea the best although it is a bit
too long.
sorry,
David Jost
matthew@..., =?iso-8859-1?q?agn=e8s?= & fletcher peillet-long
<owlnmol-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3673
send each of them into a separate hull with their own headphones and
forget about them. Or, they could mutiny and put me in there.
The catamaran really does not fit the bill in that it would be very
difficult to transport overland at the end of the season.
So far, I like the Red Zinger idea the best although it is a bit
too long.
sorry,
David Jost
matthew@..., =?iso-8859-1?q?agn=e8s?= & fletcher peillet-long
<owlnmol-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3673
> If you were willing to consider a multihull, a Wharram TIKI 21 wouldfit
> the bill, though the accommodations are 1 in each hull and 2 under a
> neat tent on deck. I don't know about performance, though Wharram is
> certainly Bolgerish in his innovations and his disdain for the
> establishment.
>
> Here's a neat pic of a TIKI 21 that I picked up somewhere.
>
> Matthew
>
> "p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3643
>
> > Unless you have a multihull, in which case you will have 13' of beam
> and
> > the tall sophisticated rig.
>
> --
> Matthew, Agnès & Fletcher Peillet-Long
> Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
> Visit our homepage for boats, baby & more!
>http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole/
>
>
Please - Do not broadcast attachments to the group.
Send them to the Bolger vault and direct interested parties there.
Gregg Carlson
moderator
At 05:58 PM 3/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
Send them to the Bolger vault and direct interested parties there.
Gregg Carlson
moderator
At 05:58 PM 3/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>If you were willing to consider a multihull, a Wharram TIKI 21 would fit
>the bill, though the accommodations are 1 in each hull and 2 under a
>neat tent on deck. I don't know about performance, though Wharram is
>certainly Bolgerish in his innovations and his disdain for the
>establishment.
>
>Here's a neat pic of a TIKI 21 that I picked up somewhere.
>
>Matthew
>
>"p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3643
>
>> Unless you have a multihull, in which case you will have 13' of beam
>and
>> the tall sophisticated rig.
>
>--
>Matthew, Agnès & Fletcher Peillet-Long
>Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
>Visit our homepage for boats, baby & more!
>http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole/
>
>
>
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>
>Attachment Converted: "C:\PIPEPLUS\DOWNLOAD\tiki21.jpg"
>
If you were willing to consider a multihull, a Wharram TIKI 21 would fit
the bill, though the accommodations are 1 in each hull and 2 under a
neat tent on deck. I don't know about performance, though Wharram is
certainly Bolgerish in his innovations and his disdain for the
establishment.
Here's a neat pic of a TIKI 21 that I picked up somewhere.
Matthew
"p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3643
Matthew, Agnès & Fletcher Peillet-Long
Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
Visit our homepage for boats, baby & more!
http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole/
the bill, though the accommodations are 1 in each hull and 2 under a
neat tent on deck. I don't know about performance, though Wharram is
certainly Bolgerish in his innovations and his disdain for the
establishment.
Here's a neat pic of a TIKI 21 that I picked up somewhere.
Matthew
"p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3643
> Unless you have a multihull, in which case you will have 13' of beamand
> the tall sophisticated rig.--
Matthew, Agnès & Fletcher Peillet-Long
Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
Visit our homepage for boats, baby & more!
http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole/
I agree with Matthew. No Chandlery fittings are required to
build this boat. It won a prominent des comp in 1982.
"Cookie" circumnavigated one (not recommended)
Im told they consistently achieve 10kts.
They are beachable & tough.
If you want to look at a heap try
http://www.multihulls.uk.com/wharram_cats/boats.htm
Cheers
Jeff Gilbert
build this boat. It won a prominent des comp in 1982.
"Cookie" circumnavigated one (not recommended)
Im told they consistently achieve 10kts.
They are beachable & tough.
If you want to look at a heap try
http://www.multihulls.uk.com/wharram_cats/boats.htm
Cheers
Jeff Gilbert
----- Original Message -----
From: <Matthew@...>; Agnès & Fletcher Peillet-Long
<owlnmole@...>
To: Bolger eGroup <bolger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:58 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: bolgerish J24?
If you were willing to consider a multihull, a Wharram TIKI 21 would fit
the bill, though the accommodations are 1 in each hull and 2 under a
neat tent on deck. I don't know about performance, though Wharram is
certainly Bolgerish in his innovations and his disdain for the
establishment.
Matthew
I agree with Matthew. This boat has no chandler-bought fittings -all
can be costructed by the amateur with wood, epoxy & rope (+canvas).
It won a prominent design comp in 1982 against monos.
If you want to check out a host of them, go to
http://www.multihulls.uk.com/wharram_cats/boats.htm
Cheers
Jeff Gilbert
can be costructed by the amateur with wood, epoxy & rope (+canvas).
It won a prominent design comp in 1982 against monos.
If you want to check out a host of them, go to
http://www.multihulls.uk.com/wharram_cats/boats.htm
Cheers
Jeff Gilbert
----- Original Message -----
From: <Matthew@...>; Subject: [bolger] Re: bolgerish J24?
If you were willing to consider a multihull, a Wharram TIKI 21 would fit
the bill, though the accommodations are 1 in each hull and 2 under a
neat tent on deck. I don't know about performance, though Wharram is
certainly Bolgerish in his innovations and his disdain for the
establishment.
Matthew
David,
I have 28 pages of design for the simple 22ft Ketch attached.
I could extend it to 24 easily-a huge v-berth up front with
a centre divider would do 4, or you could go
for 1/4 berths. Id add the 2 ft in the cabin. or a rear cabin
Sitting HR only
It can be rigged with 2nd hand dinghy/ Hobie gear, & needs no winches
It could be got in the water for 5-10 grand depending on o/b choice
Cheers
Jeff Gilbert
I have 28 pages of design for the simple 22ft Ketch attached.
I could extend it to 24 easily-a huge v-berth up front with
a centre divider would do 4, or you could go
for 1/4 berths. Id add the 2 ft in the cabin. or a rear cabin
Sitting HR only
It can be rigged with 2nd hand dinghy/ Hobie gear, & needs no winches
It could be got in the water for 5-10 grand depending on o/b choice
Cheers
Jeff Gilbert
----- Original Message -----
From: David Jost <djost@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 6:18 AM
Subject: [bolger] bolgerish J24?
I really should get off line right now, but the weather is so rotten
that all boatbuilding has stopped. Plus I gave up booze for lent, I've
gotta do something.
I went to the bookstore yesterday and picked up my own copy of BWAOM.
This got me thinking. This is always a dangerous thing.
The J24 is a wonderful boat for a small family in that it sails
great, has decent (bearable) accomodations, is relatively safe once you
button down the hatch, and is relatively inexpensive (used boats cost
about $9000 cruise ready, $13K race ready). The boat also allows for
competition on an international scale due to its strict one design rule
and the inclusion of a very good rig that can be made manageable with a
few modifications. I do not know any sailor who does not secretly
desire to make their boat go faster or does not compare their speed
against a neighbors (competitors) boat.
There must be a Bolger equivalent of this someplace in the archives.
Here are the requirements.
1. must accomodate a family of 4 for a weekend
2. must sail very well. Stodginess is never a good factor in a sail
boat.
3. must be somewhat trailerable. call it, trailerable with difficulty.
4. can be built by an amatuer with some experience in building small
boats.
5. no longer than 25' overall length. Length becomes a liability in
trailering, storage, and mooring in crowded harbors. Harwich's
regulations permit only boats 25' and shorter to be on moorings in the
harbors.
Any ideas?
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Around here, official length comes from the state registration, which is
rounded off to whole numbers - generally rounded up. But, the guy at DMV is
going to take your word at how long it is.
I should say that I know that none of the boats I mentioned is going to
stay with a J-24 upwind. Not even close. If you want the speed of the J-24
and accomodations of the J-24 and the shortness of teh J-24, then you are
going to have to have the deep keel and the tall sophisticated rig.
Unless you have a multihull, in which case you will have 13' of beam and
the tall sophisticated rig.
Peter
rounded off to whole numbers - generally rounded up. But, the guy at DMV is
going to take your word at how long it is.
I should say that I know that none of the boats I mentioned is going to
stay with a J-24 upwind. Not even close. If you want the speed of the J-24
and accomodations of the J-24 and the shortness of teh J-24, then you are
going to have to have the deep keel and the tall sophisticated rig.
Unless you have a multihull, in which case you will have 13' of beam and
the tall sophisticated rig.
Peter
> > 5. no longer than 25' overall length. Length becomes a liability in
> > trailering, storage, and mooring in crowded harbors. Harwich's
> > regulations permit only boats 25' and shorter to be on moorings in the
> > harbors.
> >
Suggest building one of the two or three part boats. You'll blow away
all the other trailerables in any race. You can moor the parts
seperately!
More fun than either of the solutions below. Of course there's the
matter of budget and work.
"vance cowan" <vcgraphic-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3640
all the other trailerables in any race. You can moor the parts
seperately!
More fun than either of the solutions below. Of course there's the
matter of budget and work.
"vance cowan" <vcgraphic-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3640
> BWOM p.333, Red Zinger, is 25'6'. About the extra 6 inches:
> A. Lie.
> B. Ask PB&F if the molds could be squeezed. It's not "instant"
> construction.
>
>
> "david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3632
>
>
> > 5. no longer than 25' overall length. snip
> >
> > Any ideas?
>
>
BWOM p.333, Red Zinger, is 25'6'. About the extra 6 inches:
A. Lie.
B. Ask PB&F if the molds could be squeezed. It's not "instant"
construction.
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3632
A. Lie.
B. Ask PB&F if the molds could be squeezed. It's not "instant"
construction.
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3632
> 5. no longer than 25' overall length. Length becomes a liability in
> trailering, storage, and mooring in crowded harbors. Harwich's
> regulations permit only boats 25' and shorter to be on moorings in the
> harbors.
>
> Any ideas?
Are you building outside or under shelter? The other day it was 31
degrees (F), tho sunny, and I found that wearing a pair of long johns
and a windbreaker enabled me to go out and work on the boat without any
serious problems with cold. Now I'm too gimpy (got that way packing up
books and things to move from one cubicle to another!). Pick a task
like sanding where you are always moving around to stay warm.
Red Zinger is in BwaOM. I believe that Bolger at one point said that he
should change something on the planking before someone builds another
one, to make the job a bit easier. It doesn't feel like a hi tech boat
and is in fact very simple. No idea how it would hold up against a J24.
I don't know remember what it was raced against and I wasn't there. The
essay in the book is one of those fictionalized stories.
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3637
degrees (F), tho sunny, and I found that wearing a pair of long johns
and a windbreaker enabled me to go out and work on the boat without any
serious problems with cold. Now I'm too gimpy (got that way packing up
books and things to move from one cubicle to another!). Pick a task
like sanding where you are always moving around to stay warm.
Red Zinger is in BwaOM. I believe that Bolger at one point said that he
should change something on the planking before someone builds another
one, to make the job a bit easier. It doesn't feel like a hi tech boat
and is in fact very simple. No idea how it would hold up against a J24.
I don't know remember what it was raced against and I wasn't there. The
essay in the book is one of those fictionalized stories.
"david jost" <djos-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3637
> sorry Lincoln,
> I am not familiar with what text red zinger is out of. Where can I
> find the drawings. Mind you, this is a project that is going to be at
> least 4 years off. Micro comes first.
> David Jost "thinking about a move to anywhere it is warm and sunny,
> Hell sounds good about now"
>snip
sorry Lincoln,
I am not familiar with what text red zinger is out of. Where can I
find the drawings. Mind you, this is a project that is going to be at
least 4 years off. Micro comes first.
David Jost "thinking about a move to anywhere it is warm and sunny,
Hell sounds good about now"
"lincoln ross" <lincoln-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3636
I am not familiar with what text red zinger is out of. Where can I
find the drawings. Mind you, this is a project that is going to be at
least 4 years off. Micro comes first.
David Jost "thinking about a move to anywhere it is warm and sunny,
Hell sounds good about now"
"lincoln ross" <lincoln-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3636
> I thought Red Zinger was a touch over 25'? It's certainly trailerable,times,
> owner uses a Cherokee (ugh!). Has raced successfully a number of
> but it's handicap has been steadily raised after several initial
> successes. You'll have to disguise yours. I noticed that Red Zinger is
> one of very few boats in its anchorage that can be instantly
> identified. Almost all the rest look somehow the same.
>
> P.S. I saw an ad for RZ in MAIB not too long ago. Don't know how
> serious.
>
> "p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3633
> >
> > Let's try:
> >
> > a) Red Zinger
> > b) Martha Jane
> > c) Jochems Schooner
> >
> > PHV
> > >snipBolger equivalent snip
> > >1. must accomodate a family of 4 for a weekend
> > >2. must sail very well.
> > >3. must be somewhat trailerable. call it, trailerable with
> difficulty.
> > >4. can be built by an amatuer snip
> > >5. no longer than 25' overall length. snip
> >
>
I thought Red Zinger was a touch over 25'? It's certainly trailerable,
owner uses a Cherokee (ugh!). Has raced successfully a number of times,
but it's handicap has been steadily raised after several initial
successes. You'll have to disguise yours. I noticed that Red Zinger is
one of very few boats in its anchorage that can be instantly
identified. Almost all the rest look somehow the same.
P.S. I saw an ad for RZ in MAIB not too long ago. Don't know how
serious.
"p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3633
owner uses a Cherokee (ugh!). Has raced successfully a number of times,
but it's handicap has been steadily raised after several initial
successes. You'll have to disguise yours. I noticed that Red Zinger is
one of very few boats in its anchorage that can be instantly
identified. Almost all the rest look somehow the same.
P.S. I saw an ad for RZ in MAIB not too long ago. Don't know how
serious.
"p. vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3633
>difficulty.
> Let's try:
>
> a) Red Zinger
> b) Martha Jane
> c) Jochems Schooner
>
> PHV
> >snipBolger equivalent snip
> >1. must accomodate a family of 4 for a weekend
> >2. must sail very well.
> >3. must be somewhat trailerable. call it, trailerable with
> >4. can be built by an amatuer snip
> >5. no longer than 25' overall length. snip
>
Let's try:
a) Red Zinger
b) Martha Jane
c) Jochems Schooner
PHV
a) Red Zinger
b) Martha Jane
c) Jochems Schooner
PHV
> There must be a Bolger equivalent of this someplace in the archives.
> Here are the requirements.
>1. must accomodate a family of 4 for a weekend
>
>2. must sail very well. Stodginess is never a good factor in a sail
>boat.
>3. must be somewhat trailerable. call it, trailerable with difficulty.
>4. can be built by an amatuer with some experience in building small
>boats.
>5. no longer than 25' overall length. Length becomes a liability in
>trailering, storage, and mooring in crowded harbors. Harwich's
>regulations permit only boats 25' and shorter to be on moorings in the
>harbors.
>
I really should get off line right now, but the weather is so rotten
that all boatbuilding has stopped. Plus I gave up booze for lent, I've
gotta do something.
I went to the bookstore yesterday and picked up my own copy of BWAOM.
This got me thinking. This is always a dangerous thing.
The J24 is a wonderful boat for a small family in that it sails
great, has decent (bearable) accomodations, is relatively safe once you
button down the hatch, and is relatively inexpensive (used boats cost
about $9000 cruise ready, $13K race ready). The boat also allows for
competition on an international scale due to its strict one design rule
and the inclusion of a very good rig that can be made manageable with a
few modifications. I do not know any sailor who does not secretly
desire to make their boat go faster or does not compare their speed
against a neighbors (competitors) boat.
There must be a Bolger equivalent of this someplace in the archives.
Here are the requirements.
1. must accomodate a family of 4 for a weekend
2. must sail very well. Stodginess is never a good factor in a sail
boat.
3. must be somewhat trailerable. call it, trailerable with difficulty.
4. can be built by an amatuer with some experience in building small
boats.
5. no longer than 25' overall length. Length becomes a liability in
trailering, storage, and mooring in crowded harbors. Harwich's
regulations permit only boats 25' and shorter to be on moorings in the
harbors.
Any ideas?
that all boatbuilding has stopped. Plus I gave up booze for lent, I've
gotta do something.
I went to the bookstore yesterday and picked up my own copy of BWAOM.
This got me thinking. This is always a dangerous thing.
The J24 is a wonderful boat for a small family in that it sails
great, has decent (bearable) accomodations, is relatively safe once you
button down the hatch, and is relatively inexpensive (used boats cost
about $9000 cruise ready, $13K race ready). The boat also allows for
competition on an international scale due to its strict one design rule
and the inclusion of a very good rig that can be made manageable with a
few modifications. I do not know any sailor who does not secretly
desire to make their boat go faster or does not compare their speed
against a neighbors (competitors) boat.
There must be a Bolger equivalent of this someplace in the archives.
Here are the requirements.
1. must accomodate a family of 4 for a weekend
2. must sail very well. Stodginess is never a good factor in a sail
boat.
3. must be somewhat trailerable. call it, trailerable with difficulty.
4. can be built by an amatuer with some experience in building small
boats.
5. no longer than 25' overall length. Length becomes a liability in
trailering, storage, and mooring in crowded harbors. Harwich's
regulations permit only boats 25' and shorter to be on moorings in the
harbors.
Any ideas?