Re: Tabenacle sketches , info and photos?
Ah...I whistfully long for the days when I only had a Micro mast to
step. It was actually real easy to throw into place as the balance
of the mast made it just fall into the hole in the bow. I am not an
Olympic wrestler and marveled at how the arrangement worked.
As the current owner of a Cape Cod Catboat, I can only look back on
the days of easy mast raising and lowering.
God Bless the Micro! After spending a day below decks in the
catboat, I can think back to that open expanse of cabin and the
adequate ventilation provided by the vents fore and aft! The
cockpit was also great for sprawling on and I could launch and
retrieve it myself without cranes and forklifts.
David Jost
"can an AS 29 be too far in the distant future?"
step. It was actually real easy to throw into place as the balance
of the mast made it just fall into the hole in the bow. I am not an
Olympic wrestler and marveled at how the arrangement worked.
As the current owner of a Cape Cod Catboat, I can only look back on
the days of easy mast raising and lowering.
God Bless the Micro! After spending a day below decks in the
catboat, I can think back to that open expanse of cabin and the
adequate ventilation provided by the vents fore and aft! The
cockpit was also great for sprawling on and I could launch and
retrieve it myself without cranes and forklifts.
David Jost
"can an AS 29 be too far in the distant future?"
I found the sketch you're refering to. It shows a hatch, with coaming with
clear inside dimensions of 5" by 2-1/2' There's a 5" wide notch in the
forward bulkhead to let the mast enter at an angle, and the sketch shows the
heel of the mast sort of bouncing off the inner stem on its way down to the
step. A hatch cover then closes the hole and supports the mast from the
rear (????) It is directly over the bunks, and in one of the write-ups PCB
stated that it was impossible to keep the water out. For an unstayed mast,
it looks to me like much more support is needed at the partners.
Also, in Chebacco, one supposedly pops out of the forward hatch in order to
handle the anchor etc. Without the tabernacle, one would have to walk on
the deck.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
clear inside dimensions of 5" by 2-1/2' There's a 5" wide notch in the
forward bulkhead to let the mast enter at an angle, and the sketch shows the
heel of the mast sort of bouncing off the inner stem on its way down to the
step. A hatch cover then closes the hole and supports the mast from the
rear (????) It is directly over the bunks, and in one of the write-ups PCB
stated that it was impossible to keep the water out. For an unstayed mast,
it looks to me like much more support is needed at the partners.
Also, in Chebacco, one supposedly pops out of the forward hatch in order to
handle the anchor etc. Without the tabernacle, one would have to walk on
the deck.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> There is also the over/under option like the "house" version of
> CHEBACCO. Perhaps Roger would have a sketch of it as well. It has
> proven very popular on several designs. (Page 228 BWAOM.) The neat
> thing about it is it keeps the mast supported while you walk it
> upright. Almost like having a buddy in the bow guiding it.
The only problem i foresee is where chebacco has it's mast mounted
to the front of the forward bulkhead, micro's is back a few inches
from the bow. I'm not sure where the most pressure would be applied
but i could attach the tabernacle front to the bow transom, then
brace behind it quite a bit. Since i have'nt installed the
floatation chambers yet i could arrange their framing to do double
duty to brace the tabernacle as well.
I was wrong it's not 16 inches it's more like 28" of mast i get to
loose, which would save me about 16.5 lbs of mast. I can put quite a
bit of bracing in the bow for 16.5 lbs.
As far as monocoque construction goes micro is more of a glue and
nail boat without all that fiberglassing to hold it together,
however it all looks kinda wimpy to me so i'm in the procees of
prepping all the side, floor, bulkhead contact points for fillets.
It just keeps getting heavier.....i really should know better by
now :)
The micro navigator bow has been changed so there is a ton of
floatation up there. Plus with the two drains above water line in
the hull bottom and the boarding steps/size 15 boot holes in the bow
I don't beleive any water that gets in is going to stay very
long....i hope. I'm not familuar with the chebacco's draining ports,
bow floation and free flooding well.
Does a piece of deadwood or bracing go all the way from the hull up
to where the mast steps when righted? Or just at top and bottom of
the uprights?.....I need a little gap in there somewhere. I can
deploy the anchor and rode over the bow but i want to run the rode
through the lower draining port cleat it on the tabernacle framing
and then have it permanently attached to a beefed up spot on the
foreward bulkhead.
Thanks for those model shots they offer a good prospective.
Jason
to the front of the forward bulkhead, micro's is back a few inches
from the bow. I'm not sure where the most pressure would be applied
but i could attach the tabernacle front to the bow transom, then
brace behind it quite a bit. Since i have'nt installed the
floatation chambers yet i could arrange their framing to do double
duty to brace the tabernacle as well.
I was wrong it's not 16 inches it's more like 28" of mast i get to
loose, which would save me about 16.5 lbs of mast. I can put quite a
bit of bracing in the bow for 16.5 lbs.
As far as monocoque construction goes micro is more of a glue and
nail boat without all that fiberglassing to hold it together,
however it all looks kinda wimpy to me so i'm in the procees of
prepping all the side, floor, bulkhead contact points for fillets.
It just keeps getting heavier.....i really should know better by
now :)
The micro navigator bow has been changed so there is a ton of
floatation up there. Plus with the two drains above water line in
the hull bottom and the boarding steps/size 15 boot holes in the bow
I don't beleive any water that gets in is going to stay very
long....i hope. I'm not familuar with the chebacco's draining ports,
bow floation and free flooding well.
Does a piece of deadwood or bracing go all the way from the hull up
to where the mast steps when righted? Or just at top and bottom of
the uprights?.....I need a little gap in there somewhere. I can
deploy the anchor and rode over the bow but i want to run the rode
through the lower draining port cleat it on the tabernacle framing
and then have it permanently attached to a beefed up spot on the
foreward bulkhead.
Thanks for those model shots they offer a good prospective.
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
using one on almost every design now, including CAMPER, which has
just a small spar. They might even offer something really innovative
that none of us could ever conceive of. (Have you seen the one on
LITTLE CRUISER? It is a tripod arrangement of Matt Layden design.)
There is also the over/under option like the "house" version of
CHEBACCO. Perhaps Roger would have a sketch of it as well. It has
proven very popular on several designs. (Page 228 BWAOM.) The neat
thing about it is it keeps the mast supported while you walk it
upright. Almost like having a buddy in the bow guiding it. Or perhaps
you could train the dog to help:-)
had not really considered using one without.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> I hate to have PCB&F shoot me down, call me a dummy and drain myI am sure they would have no problem with a tabernacle as they are
> enthusiasm......i'll always try something ONCE.....here i come
> tabernacle.
using one on almost every design now, including CAMPER, which has
just a small spar. They might even offer something really innovative
that none of us could ever conceive of. (Have you seen the one on
LITTLE CRUISER? It is a tripod arrangement of Matt Layden design.)
There is also the over/under option like the "house" version of
CHEBACCO. Perhaps Roger would have a sketch of it as well. It has
proven very popular on several designs. (Page 228 BWAOM.) The neat
thing about it is it keeps the mast supported while you walk it
upright. Almost like having a buddy in the bow guiding it. Or perhaps
you could train the dog to help:-)
> Also I would be interested in their response to the engine controlMy plan is to get a motor that has reverse and remote controls. So I
> question:-)
>
> What is your opinion on the matter, you are familar with lestat and
> the navigator plans.
had not really considered using one without.
Cheers, Nels
Chebacco's toggle bolts attach to the front of the raised cabin structure
and yes, I think a 2x4 across there to spread the load to the side decks and
cabin sides is a good idea. On Chebacco, it would be less than 3' long --
six pounds?
With the open anchor well, if Chebacco buries her nose in a wave, she'll
suddenly acquire over 500 lbs in the very bow, and it will take quite a
while to clear with the small freeing ports I'm planning. Probably figure
on broaching. Scroll down to the very bottom of
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/Chebacco.htmlto see what I'm talking about.
From the model it seems that Bolger's designs are quite similar to monocoque
aircraft construction; i.e. the skins carry the loads. The game is to avoid
stress concentrations by using fillets and local reinforcements which taper
in thickness.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
and yes, I think a 2x4 across there to spread the load to the side decks and
cabin sides is a good idea. On Chebacco, it would be less than 3' long --
six pounds?
With the open anchor well, if Chebacco buries her nose in a wave, she'll
suddenly acquire over 500 lbs in the very bow, and it will take quite a
while to clear with the small freeing ports I'm planning. Probably figure
on broaching. Scroll down to the very bottom of
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/Chebacco.htmlto see what I'm talking about.
From the model it seems that Bolger's designs are quite similar to monocoque
aircraft construction; i.e. the skins carry the loads. The game is to avoid
stress concentrations by using fillets and local reinforcements which taper
in thickness.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
<snip>
> cabin top.....that should be the easy part. Do you think the 3/8"
> ply sides,transom and 3/4" bottom can handle the forces of the
> tabernacle.....though bolted i'm assuming? I could always frame/beef
> it up but that's more weight.
> Another option that is shown on WHALEWATCHER is to install cross-The thought had crossd my mind to brace it as such the marine ply
> pieces - like a ladder - rather than having solid ply on the aft
> end of the "trough". This gives a little less weight and windage
> and can be used as a ladder when the mast is raised.
and MDO i have are already reserved for the decking and cabin top,
and gaff jaws i don't think i'll have a scrap left over.
> I guess it is too late to have the bow section hinge downward eh?If it came down to sawzawing the transom i would just do battle with
> This would probably work really well as a gangplank too!
the silver phalice. I spent alot of work getting those boarding
steps right. First too small, then not even then perfect till i put
on my rubber boots and the holes were WAY too small to stick my toes
in. Size 15 boot steps have to be pretty big : )
Also by using the chebacco style tabernacle i lose 16 inches(?) of
that pipe which will keep me close to where i started weight wise
without the tabernacle.
> I would also suggest that you confer with PCB&F, as I am sure theyI hate to have PCB&F shoot me down, call me a dummy and drain my
> would be interested with your experince with the pipe.
enthusiasm......i'll always try something ONCE.....here i come
tabernacle.
Also I would be interested in their response to the engine control
question:-)
What is your opinion on the matter, you are familar with lestat and
the navigator plans.
Jason
>
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
pieces - like a ladder - rather than having solid ply on the aft end
of the "trough". This gives a little less weight and windage and can
be used as a ladder when the mast is raised.
I guess it is too late to have the bow section hinge downward eh?
This would probably work really well as a gangplank too!
I would also suggest that you confer with PCB&F, as I am sure they
would be interested with your experince with the pipe. Also I would
be interested in their response to the engine control question:-)
Cheers, Nels
> The Chebacco Cruising Conversion shows a tabernacle extending highenough
> that the pivot point is on a line with the cabin roof (plus halfthe mast
> diameter) so the spar can lay flat when lowered. The tabernacle isa trough
> with the aft side a piece of plywood 1-1/2" x 9-1/2" and the sidesof
> timber, each 2-1/2" x 4".Another option that is shown on WHALEWATCHER is to install cross-
pieces - like a ladder - rather than having solid ply on the aft end
of the "trough". This gives a little less weight and windage and can
be used as a ladder when the mast is raised.
I guess it is too late to have the bow section hinge downward eh?
This would probably work really well as a gangplank too!
I would also suggest that you confer with PCB&F, as I am sure they
would be interested with your experince with the pipe. Also I would
be interested in their response to the engine control question:-)
Cheers, Nels
Roger-
You're the MAN!
That sounds feasible. Your right i don't need a couter balance just
a secure pivit so it doesn't skid off deck and crash into my car,
dog, not so innocent bystandard etc. I can step it now
(theoretically) but i'll shread my finish every time as it gouges
into the partner or what ever i wedge it against to walk it up.
40lbs is alot of weight but i can counter that by placing my
batteries in the stern bins, instead of under the bunks......i hope.
I'll have to modify the gaff jaws so they can pivit up/out to the
side so the whole thing can rest in the gallows (deviation) on the
cabin top.....that should be the easy part. Do you think the 3/8"
ply sides,transom and 3/4" bottom can handle the forces of the
tabernacle.....though bolted i'm assuming? I could always frame/beef
it up but that's more weight. I know this is a serious bolger
departure but the boat will get alot more spontanious use if it's
not a death defying feat to rig it. Now that the Micro part has
pretty much been built i'm enjoining the navigator lack of plans
quite a bit. Scratch the head, sand, measure, sand, cut, sand, cuss,
sand, glue, have a beer, then to the next part.
Thanks for the forthcoming scans.
Jason
You're the MAN!
That sounds feasible. Your right i don't need a couter balance just
a secure pivit so it doesn't skid off deck and crash into my car,
dog, not so innocent bystandard etc. I can step it now
(theoretically) but i'll shread my finish every time as it gouges
into the partner or what ever i wedge it against to walk it up.
40lbs is alot of weight but i can counter that by placing my
batteries in the stern bins, instead of under the bunks......i hope.
I'll have to modify the gaff jaws so they can pivit up/out to the
side so the whole thing can rest in the gallows (deviation) on the
cabin top.....that should be the easy part. Do you think the 3/8"
ply sides,transom and 3/4" bottom can handle the forces of the
tabernacle.....though bolted i'm assuming? I could always frame/beef
it up but that's more weight. I know this is a serious bolger
departure but the boat will get alot more spontanious use if it's
not a death defying feat to rig it. Now that the Micro part has
pretty much been built i'm enjoining the navigator lack of plans
quite a bit. Scratch the head, sand, measure, sand, cut, sand, cuss,
sand, glue, have a beer, then to the next part.
Thanks for the forthcoming scans.
Jason
The Chebacco Cruising Conversion shows a tabernacle extending high enough
that the pivot point is on a line with the cabin roof (plus half the mast
diameter) so the spar can lay flat when lowered. The tabernacle is a trough
with the aft side a piece of plywood 1-1/2" x 9-1/2" and the sides of
timber, each 2-1/2" x 4". The moving part of the mast is about 20' and the
overlap is about 2'. The bottom of the moving part of the mast has a
cross-piece about 9-1/2" long with a steel pin thru it and protuding an inch
or so on each side. Turnbuckles are slipped over this pin when the mast is
raised and they clamp the bottom of the mast firmly into the tabernacle.
Their aft ends are secured to the bulkhead aft of the tabernacle. The pivot
pin is specified as SS 1" dia x 11-1/2" long.
The foot of the tabernacle is anchored with a 4-1/2" x 5" x 12" block to the
bottom of the boat and to the bulkhead.
A sturdy blocking lies under the deck to join the tabernacle to the
bulkhead. Since the tabernacle stands free in the bow's anchor well it
isn't getting support from any decking.
Since this is a "conversion," a round mast is shown. Since I'm building
from scratch, my mast will be square for the 2' overlap. The original spar
shown for the regular Chebacco is shortened by the amount of the bury, so
your weight will be a little less.
No counterbalance is shown. If you're considering doing without the
tabernacle, do you really need it? Having a pivot that controls one end of
the mast and lets you push against it should make things much easier.
The forward end of the boom is pivoted loosely on the tabernacle low enough
that the lowered mast clears the assembly, so maybe the tabernacle needs to
be a few inches higher to let the boom lay flat on the cabin top too.
It does look bulky and I figure it totals a little over 1.25 cu ft of wood.
Maybe 40 lbs?
I'll send a clip of the drawing to you off-list.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
that the pivot point is on a line with the cabin roof (plus half the mast
diameter) so the spar can lay flat when lowered. The tabernacle is a trough
with the aft side a piece of plywood 1-1/2" x 9-1/2" and the sides of
timber, each 2-1/2" x 4". The moving part of the mast is about 20' and the
overlap is about 2'. The bottom of the moving part of the mast has a
cross-piece about 9-1/2" long with a steel pin thru it and protuding an inch
or so on each side. Turnbuckles are slipped over this pin when the mast is
raised and they clamp the bottom of the mast firmly into the tabernacle.
Their aft ends are secured to the bulkhead aft of the tabernacle. The pivot
pin is specified as SS 1" dia x 11-1/2" long.
The foot of the tabernacle is anchored with a 4-1/2" x 5" x 12" block to the
bottom of the boat and to the bulkhead.
A sturdy blocking lies under the deck to join the tabernacle to the
bulkhead. Since the tabernacle stands free in the bow's anchor well it
isn't getting support from any decking.
Since this is a "conversion," a round mast is shown. Since I'm building
from scratch, my mast will be square for the 2' overlap. The original spar
shown for the regular Chebacco is shortened by the amount of the bury, so
your weight will be a little less.
No counterbalance is shown. If you're considering doing without the
tabernacle, do you really need it? Having a pivot that controls one end of
the mast and lets you push against it should make things much easier.
The forward end of the boom is pivoted loosely on the tabernacle low enough
that the lowered mast clears the assembly, so maybe the tabernacle needs to
be a few inches higher to let the boom lay flat on the cabin top too.
It does look bulky and I figure it totals a little over 1.25 cu ft of wood.
Maybe 40 lbs?
I'll send a clip of the drawing to you off-list.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: [bolger] Tabenacle sketches , info and photos?
> I chose to build the micro navigator for it's ease and safety of
> single handed sailing. But i'm starting to believe that the mast as
> per plans may be a problem. I go and mess with it every day and it
> is on the unwieldy side to say the least. I'm seriously considering
> a tabernacle for it. Been looking at long micro, chebacco cruiser
> and AS29 photos trying to figure out how it works but i'm unsure.
> Anyone know of a good source for info on tabernacles?
> The pivit has to be quite high as the the pilothouse extends about
> 18 inches over the sheer forward of the mid point.
>
> I'm worried that the two huge timbers and a plug/counterbalance in
> that heavy pipe may be too much weight on the bow of a micro? Micro
> owners? Can she handle that much weight up front? How hard will it
> be to trim her out? My outboard only weighs 30 lbs and the scedule
> 40 mast per plans is 60 plus pound.....a tabernacle and a bit of
> counterbalance will most likely add another 25? I'd like to leave
> the bow transom intact(it took me too long to get the boarding steps
> right to cut them out now) and maybe have the first 2 feet of mast
> permanetly stepped pivit the other 18 feet up and have a slightly
> larger piece of pipe slide up over the joint like a collar and lock
> it in place. Kidalike a pipe scarf.....is something like that
> feasible?
>
> I have the pipe/mast i'm going to use it regardless, i'm just not
> going to finish out the bow well till i'm sure about the idea of a
> tabernacle. It would be alot easier to do it now than retrofit later.
I chose to build the micro navigator for it's ease and safety of
single handed sailing. But i'm starting to believe that the mast as
per plans may be a problem. I go and mess with it every day and it
is on the unwieldy side to say the least. I'm seriously considering
a tabernacle for it. Been looking at long micro, chebacco cruiser
and AS29 photos trying to figure out how it works but i'm unsure.
Anyone know of a good source for info on tabernacles?
The pivit has to be quite high as the the pilothouse extends about
18 inches over the sheer forward of the mid point.
I'm worried that the two huge timbers and a plug/counterbalance in
that heavy pipe may be too much weight on the bow of a micro? Micro
owners? Can she handle that much weight up front? How hard will it
be to trim her out? My outboard only weighs 30 lbs and the scedule
40 mast per plans is 60 plus pound.....a tabernacle and a bit of
counterbalance will most likely add another 25? I'd like to leave
the bow transom intact(it took me too long to get the boarding steps
right to cut them out now) and maybe have the first 2 feet of mast
permanetly stepped pivit the other 18 feet up and have a slightly
larger piece of pipe slide up over the joint like a collar and lock
it in place. Kidalike a pipe scarf.....is something like that
feasible?
I have the pipe/mast i'm going to use it regardless, i'm just not
going to finish out the bow well till i'm sure about the idea of a
tabernacle. It would be alot easier to do it now than retrofit later.
I made some real progress on the micro yesterday and got most of the
interior bunk, bin and locker framing mocked up and ready to install
permanately. Maybe i'll fillet everthing on the inside today.....i
don't trust those wimpy little chine logs.
Thanks,
Jason
single handed sailing. But i'm starting to believe that the mast as
per plans may be a problem. I go and mess with it every day and it
is on the unwieldy side to say the least. I'm seriously considering
a tabernacle for it. Been looking at long micro, chebacco cruiser
and AS29 photos trying to figure out how it works but i'm unsure.
Anyone know of a good source for info on tabernacles?
The pivit has to be quite high as the the pilothouse extends about
18 inches over the sheer forward of the mid point.
I'm worried that the two huge timbers and a plug/counterbalance in
that heavy pipe may be too much weight on the bow of a micro? Micro
owners? Can she handle that much weight up front? How hard will it
be to trim her out? My outboard only weighs 30 lbs and the scedule
40 mast per plans is 60 plus pound.....a tabernacle and a bit of
counterbalance will most likely add another 25? I'd like to leave
the bow transom intact(it took me too long to get the boarding steps
right to cut them out now) and maybe have the first 2 feet of mast
permanetly stepped pivit the other 18 feet up and have a slightly
larger piece of pipe slide up over the joint like a collar and lock
it in place. Kidalike a pipe scarf.....is something like that
feasible?
I have the pipe/mast i'm going to use it regardless, i'm just not
going to finish out the bow well till i'm sure about the idea of a
tabernacle. It would be alot easier to do it now than retrofit later.
I made some real progress on the micro yesterday and got most of the
interior bunk, bin and locker framing mocked up and ready to install
permanately. Maybe i'll fillet everthing on the inside today.....i
don't trust those wimpy little chine logs.
Thanks,
Jason