Re: blasphemy ......just got off the phone with Bolger and Suzanne
Hi -
I have been awakened a few times for that reason - but it is more like a boom than a
flump - on the Martha Jane anyway.
We discussed this on my last visit - Suzanne came up with the idea of just sticking one of
those mini-surfboard things the kids use on the beach to ride the waves on their stomach.
I spent some time the other day watching the slap pattern under the front, and I think that
would work. A piece of foam slid under and strapped in place looks like it will work too. I
have not tried it though. Whatever goes under there doesn't have to go back very far and
doesn't have to be as wide as the nose -just big enough to break up the flat wall of water
rising and falling.
I'll post a note if I spend any time experimenting.
Mike
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/
I have been awakened a few times for that reason - but it is more like a boom than a
flump - on the Martha Jane anyway.
We discussed this on my last visit - Suzanne came up with the idea of just sticking one of
those mini-surfboard things the kids use on the beach to ride the waves on their stomach.
I spent some time the other day watching the slap pattern under the front, and I think that
would work. A piece of foam slid under and strapped in place looks like it will work too. I
have not tried it though. Whatever goes under there doesn't have to go back very far and
doesn't have to be as wide as the nose -just big enough to break up the flat wall of water
rising and falling.
I'll post a note if I spend any time experimenting.
Mike
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> > What about an anti-kerphlumping bow mod?
>
> I have never been kept all night by a kerphlumping flat bow, so i
> forgot.
>
The folding yulloh is Bolger's idea, which I modified
from his drawing/notes with Sparrow. I sent him
a sketch of my modification, and he was supportive.
One thing he wrote, that opened my eyes about
yullohs, is that the more vertical the blade is to the
water the better. PCB explained that they work
on the same principle as propellers, only they
oscillate instead of rotate.
The folding is held open with a lanyard, which
allows the forward force to propel the boat,
but if you stop rowing, the blade feathers
up as the lanyard loosens, and the blade
trails on top of the water surface.
I plan to pour in some lead counterweight
to give the blade portion slightly negative
buoyancy.
I think I will be storing the oar, when not in
use, vertically in a bracket mounted in the
transom.
After some experimenting, I will cut the handle
down to the best length, but there is some
flexibility of where I will sit when pushing
and pulling, either more forward for extra
leverage, or more towards the stern for less.
Also, I can cut down the size of the
plywood blade, if need be, I am not sure
if the 'bite' will be correct, or whether the
blade will stall out in the water flow.
from his drawing/notes with Sparrow. I sent him
a sketch of my modification, and he was supportive.
One thing he wrote, that opened my eyes about
yullohs, is that the more vertical the blade is to the
water the better. PCB explained that they work
on the same principle as propellers, only they
oscillate instead of rotate.
The folding is held open with a lanyard, which
allows the forward force to propel the boat,
but if you stop rowing, the blade feathers
up as the lanyard loosens, and the blade
trails on top of the water surface.
I plan to pour in some lead counterweight
to give the blade portion slightly negative
buoyancy.
I think I will be storing the oar, when not in
use, vertically in a bracket mounted in the
transom.
After some experimenting, I will cut the handle
down to the best length, but there is some
flexibility of where I will sit when pushing
and pulling, either more forward for extra
leverage, or more towards the stern for less.
Also, I can cut down the size of the
plywood blade, if need be, I am not sure
if the 'bite' will be correct, or whether the
blade will stall out in the water flow.
> I have been proto-typing a yulloh for my MicroNice idea on the folding aspect. I wish i would have thought of
> Navigator, oversized at first with each element
> being 9 or ten feet long. I will cut them down
> based on trial and fit.
that. Did you go with a flat blade, arch on the bottom or the
trihedral ro type?.....I i rounded a 3/4 inch arch in the underside
of my blade. Shaft only extends an inch or two below the waterline
before feathering out. It will ride on the cabin top gallows and
extend about 3.5' off either end of the pilot house, crude, but out
of the way. I think mine is 7.5 off the pivit aft and 7' forward. I
know i will have to trim the inboard part about 18".....it balance
out at almost midship now. I want to get near the companion way for
sculling
> I am happy with the 'universal joint' pivotVery nice, I went the matt layden route with a rounded off 3/4" ss
> point, made from stock Home Depot parts.
hex head bolt run through the piece of oak that arches over the
transom hole......esentially an extended toe block thing, just one
piece instead of the two halves shown on the mystery sheet. The
pivit cup was coated in epoxy thickened with graphite powder, No
idea how long that will last before it gets eatten through. May have
to device a metal plug or sacrificially cup of some kind......guess
i should finish my boat first.
Jason
I think the AS-19 doghouse would be easily upsized a bit
with windows and a slot top.
http://hallman.org/bolger/AS19/as19nav.gif
I have been proto-typing a yulloh for my Micro
Navigator, oversized at first with each element
being 9 or ten feet long. I will cut them down
based on trial and fit.
I am happy with the 'universal joint' pivot
point, made from stock Home Depot parts.
http://community.webshots.com/album/149977853vwcepc
with windows and a slot top.
http://hallman.org/bolger/AS19/as19nav.gif
I have been proto-typing a yulloh for my Micro
Navigator, oversized at first with each element
being 9 or ten feet long. I will cut them down
based on trial and fit.
I am happy with the 'universal joint' pivot
point, made from stock Home Depot parts.
http://community.webshots.com/album/149977853vwcepc
>I've made a real nice yuloh for her already, but i believe it's a
> I believe your motor will work out well simply running free and
> steering with the rudder. It is only an emergency back-up for the
> yuloh anyway. You might want a yuloh like Bruce's.
bout 18" long on the inboard side.....bruce-what are your inboard
and out board lengths? I've got my set to scull from the aft end of
the cabin sole.....i think there will be enoughroom in the
compainionway.
> Bruce will also be rolling his eyes about a 24' maxi microI went and looked at chuck's jessie cooper site, that is real nice.
> navigator, because he is a JESSE COOPER fan - as am I. And that is
> what you are describing. Just a bit too big to trailer easily.
Only thing, it's an evolution jessie cooper, as 29/39,
fiji.....theybecome more refined with bolger's experience over the
years.....too bad the also get more complex.
Those pictures of tomboy dried out rekindle my desire for the
leeboards, DOH!
Here's what dave zieger wrote me regarding zoon, thier long micro
with leeboards:
"We came out to 660 lbs of lead to compensate for the raised CG. I
forget, now,
whether we compensated for our live-aboard supplies and general
junk. As we
floated a couple of inches low, we could have lightened up a bit.
With only
camping gear, we were a tad light (NAVIGATOR's house might make up
for that). We were very happy with
ZOON's leeboards (from Bolger's WISH II), but now have added an
outboard bar
which keeps them from winging out and makes them 'off-
centerboards'). That
makes the whole rig self-tending."
> loved his rendering of the AS19 Navigator - only with chinerunners
> instead of leeboards.Are these drawings posted some where?
> The anti kerphlumping bow fairing is going to be nice whenmotoring
> to lessen the wave slap and pounding, since mine is going to be aExactly, the nav/mystery sheet is only angles, with LM's same beam,
> LMNMS (LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR MOTOR SAILER:-)
> Quite likely one could modify a LM just from the regular MICRO
> NAVIGATOR update. The basic hull is the same.
it should be just as easy....it would be nice to have a teeny little
cockpit out back so you could lounge in the sun on occassion. You
could extend the tiller shaft up through the deck and rig a second
steering station with a removable tiller. My dads lobsterboat has
the wheel in the house, but you can pop a little hatch in the
cockpit and ship a 6 foot tiller over top of the stuffing box
nipple. Has a second set of engine controls on the stern transom.
It's a real nice set up that allows flexibility.
> Funny that last year when I enquired PCB&F seemed quiteuninterested
> in the MICRO's. Perhaps the enthusiasm of Bruce and yourself andA little pestering and flattery goes a long way :)
> several others has reignited the flame.
Jason
How about a whole round bow with tabernacle part of it as a unit,
counterweight at the bottom, hinged at the top of the existing bow
transom.....rather like the nose of a large freight aircraft? No
slot, nice orca bow.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
counterweight at the bottom, hinged at the top of the existing bow
transom.....rather like the nose of a large freight aircraft? No
slot, nice orca bow.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> It would still have an open slot in the stem withinside
> > the rounded attachment overlapping and held in place by the mast
> > when it is upright. The drawback is that the slot will be open
> when the mast is in the lowered position. (i.e. when motoring or at
> > anchor.)
>
> I specifically groaned at the idea of cutting up my transom for
> a "notch", but they said it would stay put as is and the mast would
> swing out and up to the front and seat flush on the
> transom?......your guess is as good as mine to what that means. So
> much for keeping the weight out of the ends?....how many times have
> i heard that.
>
>
> > The biggest challenge is how to avoid a tangle of lines and sail
> > when the chinese lug sail and mast are lowered. I am sure PCB&F
> are aware of this.
>
> I forgot to ask if the gaff jaws will change. If they can't be
> released or something to pivit 90 degrees without removal that no
> good. There is no where to stow that stuff when on the water.
>
>
> > I am curious about two other items:
> >
> > Did you asked them about how you can control the motor from
> > the cabin and still keep out the fumes?little
>
> I did'nt even think about it at the time. I'm kicking around making
> the tiller slot big enough to get my wrist through......put a
> lip around it and then sew up rubber boot....kinda like a gearshift
> knob or spray skirt. I'll put a kill switch in the cabin. For themoment......maybe
> rich famous i bet remote controls are the ticket...for me, well i
> still have to climb on deck to start/lower/raise and do the 180
> degree twist for reverse.
> >
> > What about an anti-kerphlumping bow mod?
>
> I have never been kept all night by a kerphlumping flat bow, so i
> forgot.
>
> I'll ask about this stuff, when they call back next week. I've got
> my note cards ready.
>
> Nels if they're doing this stuff kinda spur of the
> now is the time to commission the long micro navigator with all the
> bells and whistles you have been thinking about.......you ought to
> just make it a maxi micro 24'x 6' with, 4-5 feet of cockpit aft of
> pilot house, a protected motorwell and room for a tortise on deck :)
>
> is that my dream or yours......just wait till i get a real job, HA
>
> Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
way down - perhaps just half way. This would allow the base of the
mast to swing through the slot. Then you would have the round
section attach to the forward edge of the mast and overlap the
bottom portion of the bow transon. This could then have the
counterweight on the lower end.
To imagine this round bow section - it would be like a round fence
post sliced vertically, with the flat side attached to the mast.
Then the lower end would be faired into a nice cutwater edge with
some lead inserted. It could then be raised and lowered with one
hand. It could also have a gasket of some kind routed into its aft
edge to cushion and seal it against the bow slot and transom front.
The added weight would be more than compensated for by the foam
under the free-flooding well. and the added wood of the fencepost.
Since MICRO has tremendous load carrying capacity amidships, adding
some weight to the bow does not affect it so long as you add the
same amount to the stern. Both are above the water most of the time
anyway!
You would have to install the boarding step in the topsides and
also deploy the anchor from the side.
I believe your motor will work out well simply running free and
steering with the rudder. It is only an emergency back-up for the
yuloh anyway. You might want a yuloh like Bruce's.
Bruce will also be rolling his eyes about a 24' maxi micro
navigator, because he is a JESSE COOPER fan - as am I. And that is
what you are describing. Just a bit too big to trailer easily. I
loved his rendering of the AS19 Navigator - only with chine runners
instead of leeboards.
The anti kerphlumping bow fairing is going to be nice when motoring
to lessen the wave slap and pounding, since mine is going to be a
LMNMS (LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR MOTOR SAILER:-)
Quite likely one could modify a LM just from the regular MICRO
NAVIGATOR update. The basic hull is the same.
Funny that last year when I enquired PCB&F seemed quite uninterested
in the MICRO's. Perhaps the enthusiasm of Bruce and yourself and
several others has reignited the flame.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
>> I specifically groaned at the idea of cutting up my transom forwould
> a "notch", but they said it would stay put as is and the mast
> swing out and up to the front and seat flush on thehave
> transom?......your guess is as good as mine to what that means. So
> much for keeping the weight out of the ends?....how many times
> i heard that.Well I don't think you would have to remove the bow transom all the
>
way down - perhaps just half way. This would allow the base of the
mast to swing through the slot. Then you would have the round
section attach to the forward edge of the mast and overlap the
bottom portion of the bow transon. This could then have the
counterweight on the lower end.
To imagine this round bow section - it would be like a round fence
post sliced vertically, with the flat side attached to the mast.
Then the lower end would be faired into a nice cutwater edge with
some lead inserted. It could then be raised and lowered with one
hand. It could also have a gasket of some kind routed into its aft
edge to cushion and seal it against the bow slot and transom front.
The added weight would be more than compensated for by the foam
under the free-flooding well. and the added wood of the fencepost.
Since MICRO has tremendous load carrying capacity amidships, adding
some weight to the bow does not affect it so long as you add the
same amount to the stern. Both are above the water most of the time
anyway!
You would have to install the boarding step in the topsides and
also deploy the anchor from the side.
I believe your motor will work out well simply running free and
steering with the rudder. It is only an emergency back-up for the
yuloh anyway. You might want a yuloh like Bruce's.
Bruce will also be rolling his eyes about a 24' maxi micro
navigator, because he is a JESSE COOPER fan - as am I. And that is
what you are describing. Just a bit too big to trailer easily. I
loved his rendering of the AS19 Navigator - only with chine runners
instead of leeboards.
The anti kerphlumping bow fairing is going to be nice when motoring
to lessen the wave slap and pounding, since mine is going to be a
LMNMS (LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR MOTOR SAILER:-)
Quite likely one could modify a LM just from the regular MICRO
NAVIGATOR update. The basic hull is the same.
Funny that last year when I enquired PCB&F seemed quite uninterested
in the MICRO's. Perhaps the enthusiasm of Bruce and yourself and
several others has reignited the flame.
Cheers, Nels
It would still have an open slot in the stem with
a "notch", but they said it would stay put as is and the mast would
swing out and up to the front and seat flush on the
transom?......your guess is as good as mine to what that means. So
much for keeping the weight out of the ends?....how many times have
i heard that.
I forgot to ask if the gaff jaws will change. If they can't be
released or something to pivit 90 degrees without removal that no
good. There is no where to stow that stuff when on the water.
the tiller slot big enough to get my wrist through......put a little
lip around it and then sew up rubber boot....kinda like a gear shift
knob or spray skirt. I'll put a kill switch in the cabin. For the
rich famous i bet remote controls are the ticket...for me, well i
still have to climb on deck to start/lower/raise and do the 180
degree twist for reverse.
forgot.
I'll ask about this stuff, when they call back next week. I've got
my note cards ready.
Nels if they're doing this stuff kinda spur of the moment......maybe
now is the time to commission the long micro navigator with all the
bells and whistles you have been thinking about.......you ought to
just make it a maxi micro 24'x 6' with, 4-5 feet of cockpit aft of
pilot house, a protected motorwell and room for a tortise on deck :)
is that my dream or yours......just wait till i get a real job, HA
Jason
> the rounded attachment overlapping and held in place by the mastwhen the mast is in the lowered position. (i.e. when motoring or at
> when it is upright. The drawback is that the slot will be open
> anchor.)I specifically groaned at the idea of cutting up my transom for
a "notch", but they said it would stay put as is and the mast would
swing out and up to the front and seat flush on the
transom?......your guess is as good as mine to what that means. So
much for keeping the weight out of the ends?....how many times have
i heard that.
> The biggest challenge is how to avoid a tangle of lines and sailare aware of this.
> when the chinese lug sail and mast are lowered. I am sure PCB&F
I forgot to ask if the gaff jaws will change. If they can't be
released or something to pivit 90 degrees without removal that no
good. There is no where to stow that stuff when on the water.
> I am curious about two other items:I did'nt even think about it at the time. I'm kicking around making
>
> Did you asked them about how you can control the motor from inside
> the cabin and still keep out the fumes?
the tiller slot big enough to get my wrist through......put a little
lip around it and then sew up rubber boot....kinda like a gear shift
knob or spray skirt. I'll put a kill switch in the cabin. For the
rich famous i bet remote controls are the ticket...for me, well i
still have to climb on deck to start/lower/raise and do the 180
degree twist for reverse.
>I have never been kept all night by a kerphlumping flat bow, so i
> What about an anti-kerphlumping bow mod?
forgot.
I'll ask about this stuff, when they call back next week. I've got
my note cards ready.
Nels if they're doing this stuff kinda spur of the moment......maybe
now is the time to commission the long micro navigator with all the
bells and whistles you have been thinking about.......you ought to
just make it a maxi micro 24'x 6' with, 4-5 feet of cockpit aft of
pilot house, a protected motorwell and room for a tortise on deck :)
is that my dream or yours......just wait till i get a real job, HA
Jason
I think Jason says it has a round bow.
DonB
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
DonB
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>the
> wrote:
> > He said he was drawing it so others could retro fit it to
> exhisting
> > boatsso i would'nt think he would mind. I'll ask when he calls me
> > back next week.
> >
> > I talk to the two of them for about 30 minutes and i don't really
> > understand whatthe finish product will be.
> >
> > Jason
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> This is pretty exciting news for me, since as you know I have been
> mulling over some similar changes on a LONG MICRO.
>
> It is quite easy to design a rounded bow attachment to the mast for
> LM since the mast is already right up in bow and I had thought that
> a rounded, weighted attachment to the mast instead of the one in
> plans would work. It would still have an open slot in the stem witha
> the rounded attachment overlapping and held in place by the mast
> when it is upright. The drawback is that the slot will be open when
> the mast is in the lowered position. (i.e. when motoring or at
> anchor.) I have also thought about having the mast held upright by
> cable attached to a winch in the cabin:-)
>
> The biggest challenge is how to avoid a tangle of lines and sail
> when the chinese lug sail and mast are lowered. I am sure PCB&F are
> aware of this.
>
> I am curious about two other items:
>
> Did you asked them about how you can control the motor from inside
> the cabin and still keep out the fumes?
>
> What about an anti-kerphlumping bow mod?
>
> Cheers. Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
This is pretty exciting news for me, since as you know I have been
mulling over some similar changes on a LONG MICRO.
It is quite easy to design a rounded bow attachment to the mast for
LM since the mast is already right up in bow and I had thought that
a rounded, weighted attachment to the mast instead of the one in the
plans would work. It would still have an open slot in the stem with
the rounded attachment overlapping and held in place by the mast
when it is upright. The drawback is that the slot will be open when
the mast is in the lowered position. (i.e. when motoring or at
anchor.) I have also thought about having the mast held upright by a
cable attached to a winch in the cabin:-)
The biggest challenge is how to avoid a tangle of lines and sail
when the chinese lug sail and mast are lowered. I am sure PCB&F are
aware of this.
I am curious about two other items:
Did you asked them about how you can control the motor from inside
the cabin and still keep out the fumes?
What about an anti-kerphlumping bow mod?
Cheers. Nels
wrote:
> He said he was drawing it so others could retro fit it toexhisting
> boatsso i would'nt think he would mind. I'll ask when he calls meHi Jason,
> back next week.
>
> I talk to the two of them for about 30 minutes and i don't really
> understand whatthe finish product will be.
>
> Jason
This is pretty exciting news for me, since as you know I have been
mulling over some similar changes on a LONG MICRO.
It is quite easy to design a rounded bow attachment to the mast for
LM since the mast is already right up in bow and I had thought that
a rounded, weighted attachment to the mast instead of the one in the
plans would work. It would still have an open slot in the stem with
the rounded attachment overlapping and held in place by the mast
when it is upright. The drawback is that the slot will be open when
the mast is in the lowered position. (i.e. when motoring or at
anchor.) I have also thought about having the mast held upright by a
cable attached to a winch in the cabin:-)
The biggest challenge is how to avoid a tangle of lines and sail
when the chinese lug sail and mast are lowered. I am sure PCB&F are
aware of this.
I am curious about two other items:
Did you asked them about how you can control the motor from inside
the cabin and still keep out the fumes?
What about an anti-kerphlumping bow mod?
Cheers. Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
He said he was drawing it so others could retro fit it to exhisting
boatsso i would'nt think he would mind. I'll ask when he calls me
back next week.
I talk to the two of them for about 30 minutes and i don't really
understand whatthe finish product will be.
Jason
> Hi Jason, it will be interesting to see how the Bolgermodification is arranged. Will you be allowed to post it on Bolger4?
He said he was drawing it so others could retro fit it to exhisting
boatsso i would'nt think he would mind. I'll ask when he calls me
back next week.
I talk to the two of them for about 30 minutes and i don't really
understand whatthe finish product will be.
Jason
Hi Jason, it will be interesting to see how the Bolger modification
is arranged. Will you be allowed to post it on Bolger4?
Rudder shaft.....mine is a 1.5" diam thin walled ss tube, with a wood
plug both ends. In the bottom plug I epoxied a dome head bolt/screw,
head down, and the keel extension has a hex flat head bolt epoxied
in, head up. There is a built up epoxy rim around the hex head, so it
is recessed and the rudder can't jump out. And a ss split pin at the
top of the shaft so it can't jump up. The dome head sitting on the
flat one gives a silky light action, better than bearings, and it all
seems quite strong enough.
I wouldn't be too sure about the inside ballast with leeboards though.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
is arranged. Will you be allowed to post it on Bolger4?
Rudder shaft.....mine is a 1.5" diam thin walled ss tube, with a wood
plug both ends. In the bottom plug I epoxied a dome head bolt/screw,
head down, and the keel extension has a hex flat head bolt epoxied
in, head up. There is a built up epoxy rim around the hex head, so it
is recessed and the rudder can't jump out. And a ss split pin at the
top of the shaft so it can't jump up. The dome head sitting on the
flat one gives a silky light action, better than bearings, and it all
seems quite strong enough.
I wouldn't be too sure about the inside ballast with leeboards though.
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> I just talked with Bolger and Suzanne. They are nice folks, did'ntfor
> even yell at me :)
>
> 1. They talked to me about roger keyes's leeboard micro, and it's
> poor performance. They also made me realize 18" is'nt so bad. also
> that micro would require leeboards at least 2 feet deep (past the
> hull) to point well.
>
> 2. I asked about a stainless steel rudder shaft with SS plate
> faces.....bolger said that would fix micro's week point (the shaft).
>
> 3. with my concerns about shallows, bolger recomended a strip of
> sacrificial plastic(cutting board kind of stuff) from stem to stem
> on the keel.
>
> 4. Micro shall be redrawn! Now 15'10"(i think) LOA. Since i'm the
> first to do the speced schedule 40 monster mast. they felt sorry
> me, they are drawing a tabernacle. Get this micro will have a roundmast
> bow! Thats right no longer a flat slab of a transom. He is going to
> push the mast forward 9" so it pivits outside and over the bow
> transom with a semi circle rounded/counterbalnce mounted to the
> foot.....this will pivit down and attach flat to the originalbe
> transom to give the apearance of a curvacious round bow. The mast
> will strike flat and rest on a cabin top gallows. The mizzen will
> enlarged to balance out the boat.....crazy huh? This is myor
> interpretation to our conversation about the tabernacle.....i can
> explain in better detail when i get the drawings in the next week
> so.
> The said they would draw it to pivit outside so folks could easily
> retrofit the tabernacle without having to mutilate the exhisting bow
>
> Jason......guess i'll go lay a keel batton
I'd say my uppper limit on coveralls for working with epoxy might be 85
degrees, as I think it's better to sweat heavily than to lose my ability
to use epoxy on boats because of some allergic reaction. This is not a
joke, it does happen. At an old job I saw someone lying on the floor
gasping for breath. Later I heard that it was thought to be an epoxy
reaction, she used small amounts of it every day without gloves. (Same
place used polyester resin as a molding compound without any extra
ventilation. Could smell on other side of largish building even tho
only 3 oz used at a time.)
Michalak has a design which is supposed to be like Micro adapted with
leeboard and water ballast. Suggest you check it out as he's probably
taken care of the technical problems that might come up, and you could
adapt those fixes, maybe. I'd still prefer a standard Micro in open
water; I think I recall Michalak saying that his boat might have a
problem when knocked down. Don't do this without doing the homework on
stability, unless you'll never sail more than a few hundred yards
offshore and not in cold water or never in more than 15mph or something.
If you're going to skip the rig and use it to motor only, then no problem.
degrees, as I think it's better to sweat heavily than to lose my ability
to use epoxy on boats because of some allergic reaction. This is not a
joke, it does happen. At an old job I saw someone lying on the floor
gasping for breath. Later I heard that it was thought to be an epoxy
reaction, she used small amounts of it every day without gloves. (Same
place used polyester resin as a molding compound without any extra
ventilation. Could smell on other side of largish building even tho
only 3 oz used at a time.)
Michalak has a design which is supposed to be like Micro adapted with
leeboard and water ballast. Suggest you check it out as he's probably
taken care of the technical problems that might come up, and you could
adapt those fixes, maybe. I'd still prefer a standard Micro in open
water; I think I recall Michalak saying that his boat might have a
problem when knocked down. Don't do this without doing the homework on
stability, unless you'll never sail more than a few hundred yards
offshore and not in cold water or never in more than 15mph or something.
If you're going to skip the rig and use it to motor only, then no problem.
>Jason Stancil wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>What a mess! I got the dynel on tonight! Glad that is done. was'nt
>so bad but looks like i'll have to shave my legs, it was too hot for
>coveralls.
>
>Now for the bolger blasphemy. I know of 2 micros one long and one
>regular that went the leeboard route. The little guy got put back
>the way it was designed. Zieger's zoon was a success, i emailed them
>and ask about it, they said it was great. How does bolger feel about
>internally ballasted micro with leeboards(like micalak's music box 2
>and the othe 8 zillion bolger leeboarders) or chine runners
>(paradox)?
>
>I know i'm going to get flammed for this but i have my
>reasons......bad ramp and currently living on a realitively shallow
>river. Besides a few weeks in the shop this winter and it could be
>back to the norm. I'm not trying to "improve" bolger's little
>masterpiece just makes it more suitible for my current needs.
>
>Been kicking this around for awhile and i'm debating faxing bolger
>and getting yelled at by suzanne
>
>By the way the rudder would be hung on the transom and would be a
>kick up......i got the linkage all figured out. The honda would have
>to get a new mount.
>
>Thanks,
>Jason
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>
I doubt if PB&F have sold more than a handful of Micro Navigator
plans, and they explained that the original upgrade was commissioned
as a quick concept job not a fully detailed commission.
The gaff, boom and batten jaws are supposed to be loose, (I
understand), though I won't know if mine are loose enough until after
launch, now hopefully in July.
I am tempted to upgrade my Micro with a rounded bow and tabernacle now!
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:04:27 -0000, Jason Stancil
<jasonstancil@...> wrote:
plans, and they explained that the original upgrade was commissioned
as a quick concept job not a fully detailed commission.
The gaff, boom and batten jaws are supposed to be loose, (I
understand), though I won't know if mine are loose enough until after
launch, now hopefully in July.
I am tempted to upgrade my Micro with a rounded bow and tabernacle now!
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:04:27 -0000, Jason Stancil
<jasonstancil@...> wrote:
>
> It looked like that's what you did in your photos but i had'nt
> noticed the space on the nav/mystery sheet. I just thought that was
> some type of framing on the bunks. Unsinkable with the 4 floatation
> chambers and the foam insulation that is.
> You know an aditional couple of paragraphs explaining things on the
> nav/mystery sheet would save PCB&F alot of phone calls.
>
> How much pivit will your gaff jaws give you on your mast? I don't
> think they can strike along with the mast on this new
> tabernacle....wonder if he will change them or if you'd have to pop
> them loose to fold it down.
>
> Jason
It looked like that's what you did in your photos but i had'nt
noticed the space on the nav/mystery sheet. I just thought that was
some type of framing on the bunks. Unsinkable with the 4 floatation
chambers and the foam insulation that is.
You know an aditional couple of paragraphs explaining things on the
nav/mystery sheet would save PCB&F alot of phone calls.
How much pivit will your gaff jaws give you on your mast? I don't
think they can strike along with the mast on this new
tabernacle....wonder if he will change them or if you'd have to pop
them loose to fold it down.
Jason
noticed the space on the nav/mystery sheet. I just thought that was
some type of framing on the bunks. Unsinkable with the 4 floatation
chambers and the foam insulation that is.
You know an aditional couple of paragraphs explaining things on the
nav/mystery sheet would save PCB&F alot of phone calls.
How much pivit will your gaff jaws give you on your mast? I don't
think they can strike along with the mast on this new
tabernacle....wonder if he will change them or if you'd have to pop
them loose to fold it down.
Jason
If you look closely at the Bolger Navigator plans,
he shows the berth spaced about 1 inch from
the sides. He explained to me that this was
to avoid bedding getting wet from condensation.
He explained that optionally, the berth could be
touching the sides of the boats, if you insulated
the sides of the boat.
What I did, was to install 3/4" plywood strips
as nailers at about one foot centers, and then
infill w/strips of 3/4" polystyrene panels. This
was overlayed with varnished luaun plywood panels.
You need the nailers to fasten the luaun.
If you caculate the volume needed to float
the boat with 400+ lbs of lead ballast, one inch
of polystyrene is not enough.
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 18:49:56 -0000,
Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote:
he shows the berth spaced about 1 inch from
the sides. He explained to me that this was
to avoid bedding getting wet from condensation.
He explained that optionally, the berth could be
touching the sides of the boats, if you insulated
the sides of the boat.
What I did, was to install 3/4" plywood strips
as nailers at about one foot centers, and then
infill w/strips of 3/4" polystyrene panels. This
was overlayed with varnished luaun plywood panels.
You need the nailers to fasten the luaun.
If you caculate the volume needed to float
the boat with 400+ lbs of lead ballast, one inch
of polystyrene is not enough.
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 18:49:56 -0000,
Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote:
>
> oh yeah i forgot......suzanne recomended foaming the entire boat
> interior with an inch or so of rough cut foam and then paneling over
> that with 1/8 inch bright finished luane ply......making the boat
> stiffer and absolutely unsinkable without breaking apart. Not sure
> why she brought that up....she mentioned condensation and
> sweat....maybe that has been an issue with the cabin?
>
> jason
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
oh yeah i forgot......suzanne recomended foaming the entire boat
interior with an inch or so of rough cut foam and then paneling over
that with 1/8 inch bright finished luane ply......making the boat
stiffer and absolutely unsinkable without breaking apart. Not sure
why she brought that up....she mentioned condensation and
sweat....maybe that has been an issue with the cabin?
jason
interior with an inch or so of rough cut foam and then paneling over
that with 1/8 inch bright finished luane ply......making the boat
stiffer and absolutely unsinkable without breaking apart. Not sure
why she brought that up....she mentioned condensation and
sweat....maybe that has been an issue with the cabin?
jason
A redesign for Micro is exciting news!
And, actually, the fin keel on Micro only extends
about one foot below the lowest point on the bottom
of the boat. It is deeper, but only back by the rudder,
but the bottom raises higher there.
Eliminating the fin keel would only save you one
foot of draft. Even less if you tilt the boat down
in the bow, say after you grounded out in a low
tide or something.
I put a strip of UHMW plastic on the bottom of
my fin keel [middle 1/3 only]
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 18:01:36 -0000, Jason Stancil
<jasonstancil@...> wrote:
And, actually, the fin keel on Micro only extends
about one foot below the lowest point on the bottom
of the boat. It is deeper, but only back by the rudder,
but the bottom raises higher there.
Eliminating the fin keel would only save you one
foot of draft. Even less if you tilt the boat down
in the bow, say after you grounded out in a low
tide or something.
I put a strip of UHMW plastic on the bottom of
my fin keel [middle 1/3 only]
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 18:01:36 -0000, Jason Stancil
<jasonstancil@...> wrote:
>
> I just talked with Bolger and Suzanne. They are nice folks, did'nt
> even yell at me :)
>
> 1. They talked to me about roger keyes's leeboard micro, and it's
> poor performance. They also made me realize 18" is'nt so bad. also
> that micro would require leeboards at least 2 feet deep (past the
> hull) to point well.
>
> 2. I asked about a stainless steel rudder shaft with SS plate
> faces.....bolger said that would fix micro's week point (the shaft).
>
> 3. with my concerns about shallows, bolger recomended a strip of
> sacrificial plastic(cutting board kind of stuff) from stem to stem
> on the keel.
>
> 4. Micro shall be redrawn! Now 15'10"(i think) LOA. Since i'm the
> first to do the speced schedule 40 monster mast. they felt sorry for
> me, they are drawing a tabernacle. Get this micro will have a round
> bow! Thats right no longer a flat slab of a transom. He is going to
> push the mast forward 9" so it pivits outside and over the bow
> transom with a semi circle rounded/counterbalnce mounted to the mast
> foot.....this will pivit down and attach flat to the original
> transom to give the apearance of a curvacious round bow. The mast
> will strike flat and rest on a cabin top gallows. The mizzen will be
> enlarged to balance out the boat.....crazy huh? This is my
> interpretation to our conversation about the tabernacle.....i can
> explain in better detail when i get the drawings in the next week or
> so.
> The said they would draw it to pivit outside so folks could easily
> retrofit the tabernacle without having to mutilate the exhisting bow
>
> Jason......guess i'll go lay a keel batton
I just talked with Bolger and Suzanne. They are nice folks, did'nt
even yell at me :)
1. They talked to me about roger keyes's leeboard micro, and it's
poor performance. They also made me realize 18" is'nt so bad. also
that micro would require leeboards at least 2 feet deep (past the
hull) to point well.
2. I asked about a stainless steel rudder shaft with SS plate
faces.....bolger said that would fix micro's week point (the shaft).
3. with my concerns about shallows, bolger recomended a strip of
sacrificial plastic(cutting board kind of stuff) from stem to stem
on the keel.
4. Micro shall be redrawn! Now 15'10"(i think) LOA. Since i'm the
first to do the speced schedule 40 monster mast. they felt sorry for
me, they are drawing a tabernacle. Get this micro will have a round
bow! Thats right no longer a flat slab of a transom. He is going to
push the mast forward 9" so it pivits outside and over the bow
transom with a semi circle rounded/counterbalnce mounted to the mast
foot.....this will pivit down and attach flat to the original
transom to give the apearance of a curvacious round bow. The mast
will strike flat and rest on a cabin top gallows. The mizzen will be
enlarged to balance out the boat.....crazy huh? This is my
interpretation to our conversation about the tabernacle.....i can
explain in better detail when i get the drawings in the next week or
so.
The said they would draw it to pivit outside so folks could easily
retrofit the tabernacle without having to mutilate the exhisting bow
Jason......guess i'll go lay a keel batton
even yell at me :)
1. They talked to me about roger keyes's leeboard micro, and it's
poor performance. They also made me realize 18" is'nt so bad. also
that micro would require leeboards at least 2 feet deep (past the
hull) to point well.
2. I asked about a stainless steel rudder shaft with SS plate
faces.....bolger said that would fix micro's week point (the shaft).
3. with my concerns about shallows, bolger recomended a strip of
sacrificial plastic(cutting board kind of stuff) from stem to stem
on the keel.
4. Micro shall be redrawn! Now 15'10"(i think) LOA. Since i'm the
first to do the speced schedule 40 monster mast. they felt sorry for
me, they are drawing a tabernacle. Get this micro will have a round
bow! Thats right no longer a flat slab of a transom. He is going to
push the mast forward 9" so it pivits outside and over the bow
transom with a semi circle rounded/counterbalnce mounted to the mast
foot.....this will pivit down and attach flat to the original
transom to give the apearance of a curvacious round bow. The mast
will strike flat and rest on a cabin top gallows. The mizzen will be
enlarged to balance out the boat.....crazy huh? This is my
interpretation to our conversation about the tabernacle.....i can
explain in better detail when i get the drawings in the next week or
so.
The said they would draw it to pivit outside so folks could easily
retrofit the tabernacle without having to mutilate the exhisting bow
Jason......guess i'll go lay a keel batton
Notice how the AS-19 and AS-29 rudder posts are oriented
perpendicular to the bottom, where the Micro is oriented
perpendicular to the waterline.
Leeboards on a Micro would work, but after a certain
amount of revision it no longer should be called a 'Micro'.
Losing the fin keel would allow the Micro to ground
out on the flats during low tide.
Heck, why dream of a Long Micro Navigator, when
you could dream of a AS-19 Navigator?
http://hallman.org/bolger/AS19/
Another issue to be aware of: Internal ballast needs
structrual reinforcement to withstand the additional
stresses on the hull which will inevitably occur during
encounters with the bottom. External ballast doesn't.
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 04:10:53 -0000, Jason Stancil
<jasonstancil@...> wrote:
perpendicular to the bottom, where the Micro is oriented
perpendicular to the waterline.
Leeboards on a Micro would work, but after a certain
amount of revision it no longer should be called a 'Micro'.
Losing the fin keel would allow the Micro to ground
out on the flats during low tide.
Heck, why dream of a Long Micro Navigator, when
you could dream of a AS-19 Navigator?
http://hallman.org/bolger/AS19/
Another issue to be aware of: Internal ballast needs
structrual reinforcement to withstand the additional
stresses on the hull which will inevitably occur during
encounters with the bottom. External ballast doesn't.
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 04:10:53 -0000, Jason Stancil
<jasonstancil@...> wrote:
>
> dang, i'm replying to myself.I took a close look at the rudders on
> the as29, as19 and martha jane......screw the transom mounted rudder
> the as rudder type would allow me to keep the exhisting set up of
> rudder shaft, bearings and motor mount. I'm going to have to get on
> the PCB&F fax tom. I can here the gruff german reprimandations now :)
> Jason
dang, i'm replying to myself.I took a close look at the rudders on
the as29, as19 and martha jane......screw the transom mounted rudder
the as rudder type would allow me to keep the exhisting set up of
rudder shaft, bearings and motor mount. I'm going to have to get on
the PCB&F fax tom. I can here the gruff german reprimandations now :)
Jason
the as29, as19 and martha jane......screw the transom mounted rudder
the as rudder type would allow me to keep the exhisting set up of
rudder shaft, bearings and motor mount. I'm going to have to get on
the PCB&F fax tom. I can here the gruff german reprimandations now :)
Jason
What a mess! I got the dynel on tonight! Glad that is done. was'nt
so bad but looks like i'll have to shave my legs, it was too hot for
coveralls.
Now for the bolger blasphemy. I know of 2 micros one long and one
regular that went the leeboard route. The little guy got put back
the way it was designed. Zieger's zoon was a success, i emailed them
and ask about it, they said it was great. How does bolger feel about
internally ballasted micro with leeboards(like micalak's music box 2
and the othe 8 zillion bolger leeboarders) or chine runners
(paradox)?
I know i'm going to get flammed for this but i have my
reasons......bad ramp and currently living on a realitively shallow
river. Besides a few weeks in the shop this winter and it could be
back to the norm. I'm not trying to "improve" bolger's little
masterpiece just makes it more suitible for my current needs.
Been kicking this around for awhile and i'm debating faxing bolger
and getting yelled at by suzanne :)
By the way the rudder would be hung on the transom and would be a
kick up......i got the linkage all figured out. The honda would have
to get a new mount.
Thanks,
Jason
so bad but looks like i'll have to shave my legs, it was too hot for
coveralls.
Now for the bolger blasphemy. I know of 2 micros one long and one
regular that went the leeboard route. The little guy got put back
the way it was designed. Zieger's zoon was a success, i emailed them
and ask about it, they said it was great. How does bolger feel about
internally ballasted micro with leeboards(like micalak's music box 2
and the othe 8 zillion bolger leeboarders) or chine runners
(paradox)?
I know i'm going to get flammed for this but i have my
reasons......bad ramp and currently living on a realitively shallow
river. Besides a few weeks in the shop this winter and it could be
back to the norm. I'm not trying to "improve" bolger's little
masterpiece just makes it more suitible for my current needs.
Been kicking this around for awhile and i'm debating faxing bolger
and getting yelled at by suzanne :)
By the way the rudder would be hung on the transom and would be a
kick up......i got the linkage all figured out. The honda would have
to get a new mount.
Thanks,
Jason