Re: Windsprint modifications
Hi Paul,
Good to hear from you. I think I have all the mods I want to do
figured out now the hard part is convincing the better half the we
need another boat. Five people in the family, its patently obvious
that we need at least 5 boats and possibly a couple of spares.
Maybe if I tell her it a boat or a homebuilt airplane she will see
the logic of the situation?
Then again, I may need a place to stay tonight. LOL
Doug
Good to hear from you. I think I have all the mods I want to do
figured out now the hard part is convincing the better half the we
need another boat. Five people in the family, its patently obvious
that we need at least 5 boats and possibly a couple of spares.
Maybe if I tell her it a boat or a homebuilt airplane she will see
the logic of the situation?
Then again, I may need a place to stay tonight. LOL
Doug
> you probably got it right.minor
> these designs give you huge leeway to experimentwith lots of
> personal touches, particlarly rudders,seating,trim.keels,etc.landed
> Being a Day that caught the tail end of the great Diasporaand
> in Australia,i thought I'd say hello.
> cheers paul Day
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Day" <daysatnight@h...> wrote:
these designs give you huge leeway to experimentwith lots of minor
personal touches, particlarly rudders,seating,trim.keels,etc.
Being a Day that caught the tail end of the great Diasporaand landed
in Australia,i thought I'd say hello.
cheers paul Day
> John,somewhat
>
> A couple of additional questions -
>
> If I go with 1/2" bottom, do you think I can use a single sheet of
> ply or is the rocker so much that I will have to use two 1/4"
> layers? I am seriously considering using 12mm marine ply for the
> bottom if it will work. I am not planning to cartop and figure the
> extra weight down low can't hurt.
>
> The second question has to do with the rudder. The shape is
> unique in my limited experience. Did you ever have any problems?Is
> this shape adequate or do you think it is an exercise to minimizethe
> number of sheets of plywood used?you probably got it right.
these designs give you huge leeway to experimentwith lots of minor
personal touches, particlarly rudders,seating,trim.keels,etc.
Being a Day that caught the tail end of the great Diasporaand landed
in Australia,i thought I'd say hello.
cheers paul Day
>bay.
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > I am thinking about building a Windsprint for use in a nearby
> > > I am thinking about making a few modifications and would likesome
> > > feedback.
> > >
> > > 1. Make the bottom from 3/8" ply due to concerns about
> oilcanning.
> >
> > Three eights would be OK, one half might be better.
> >
You won't have any problem getting 12mm to make the bend.
The rudder was just fine as designed. I never found myself wishing it were a
different size or shape. Leave it be. The only problem I ever had was
sometimes getting the sheet caught on the pivot nut in a jibe, with
occasionally interesting contortions immediately following.
JB
The rudder was just fine as designed. I never found myself wishing it were a
different size or shape. Leave it be. The only problem I ever had was
sometimes getting the sheet caught on the pivot nut in a jibe, with
occasionally interesting contortions immediately following.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Day" <daysatnight@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Windsprint modifications
| John,
|
| A couple of additional questions -
|
| If I go with 1/2" bottom, do you think I can use a single sheet of
| ply or is the rocker so much that I will have to use two 1/4"
| layers? I am seriously considering using 12mm marine ply for the
| bottom if it will work. I am not planning to cartop and figure the
| extra weight down low can't hurt.
|
| The second question has to do with the rudder. The shape is somewhat
| unique in my limited experience. Did you ever have any problems? Is
| this shape adequate or do you think it is an exercise to minimize the
| number of sheets of plywood used?
|
| Thanks for the help.
|
| Regards,
|
| Doug
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| >
| > > I am thinking about building a Windsprint for use in a nearby bay.
| > > I am thinking about making a few modifications and would like some
| > > feedback.
| > >
| > > 1. Make the bottom from 3/8" ply due to concerns about
| oilcanning.
| >
| > Three eights would be OK, one half might be better.
| >
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
John,
A couple of additional questions -
If I go with 1/2" bottom, do you think I can use a single sheet of
ply or is the rocker so much that I will have to use two 1/4"
layers? I am seriously considering using 12mm marine ply for the
bottom if it will work. I am not planning to cartop and figure the
extra weight down low can't hurt.
The second question has to do with the rudder. The shape is somewhat
unique in my limited experience. Did you ever have any problems? Is
this shape adequate or do you think it is an exercise to minimize the
number of sheets of plywood used?
Thanks for the help.
Regards,
Doug
A couple of additional questions -
If I go with 1/2" bottom, do you think I can use a single sheet of
ply or is the rocker so much that I will have to use two 1/4"
layers? I am seriously considering using 12mm marine ply for the
bottom if it will work. I am not planning to cartop and figure the
extra weight down low can't hurt.
The second question has to do with the rudder. The shape is somewhat
unique in my limited experience. Did you ever have any problems? Is
this shape adequate or do you think it is an exercise to minimize the
number of sheets of plywood used?
Thanks for the help.
Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
>
> > I am thinking about building a Windsprint for use in a nearby bay.
> > I am thinking about making a few modifications and would like some
> > feedback.
> >
> > 1. Make the bottom from 3/8" ply due to concerns about
oilcanning.
>
> Three eights would be OK, one half might be better.
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Day" <daysatnight@h...> wrote:
Have you considered BIRDWATCHER - which is basically an enlarged.
deeper, more protected WINDSPRINT?
Cheers, Nels (reporting in from Norway)
> Jason,Maybe 8" is too
> high and 6" is better? Of course at that point, what is the realHi Doug,
> difference? Anybody out there have thoughts on low seating in a
> small boat?
>
> Doug
>
Have you considered BIRDWATCHER - which is basically an enlarged.
deeper, more protected WINDSPRINT?
Cheers, Nels (reporting in from Norway)
Not the same guy, although I was often asked if the guy you mentioned and I
were related back in the days when I was a serious whitewater paddler.
were related back in the days when I was a serious whitewater paddler.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Windsprint modifications
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
> wrote:
> > Jason,
> >
> > Did I ever meet you?
> >
> > I eventually learned how to sail the boat with the full sail, it
> was more
> > exciting that way. I kind of miss it, now.
> >
> > JB
>
> Are you the john bell from asheville, NC that teaches at UNCA? If so
> i've met you at a rescue rodeo, i think i've seen you on the river a
> few times and you helped me with a school project at wvu on risk
> management years ago.
>
> If not i don't think so :)
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
John,
The next major project I am going to do is a Welsford Houdini which I
think will take me 6 months to a year to do right. I am looking for
a quick build hull that I can use this summer. The sharpie hull is
one of the fastest builds I could think of - staight sides, not much
glass work, etc.
I'm not set on the mods for side height or seats, just thinking out
loud. Most of my sailing will be on protected waters in local
lakes. There is a messabout later in the year that crosses a lot of
open bay water and I am wondering how the windsprint handles chop.
(See Palacious Dinghy Dash at www.shortypen.com) The design is not
that much different than that of the single hand schooner or light
schooner as far as hull shapes go. In fact, the side height of the
single hand schooner is the same as the windsprint but it has decks
and a heavily weighted centerboard. Think the windsprint could
handle a 1-2 foot chop?
Thanks for the insight.
Doug
The next major project I am going to do is a Welsford Houdini which I
think will take me 6 months to a year to do right. I am looking for
a quick build hull that I can use this summer. The sharpie hull is
one of the fastest builds I could think of - staight sides, not much
glass work, etc.
I'm not set on the mods for side height or seats, just thinking out
loud. Most of my sailing will be on protected waters in local
lakes. There is a messabout later in the year that crosses a lot of
open bay water and I am wondering how the windsprint handles chop.
(See Palacious Dinghy Dash at www.shortypen.com) The design is not
that much different than that of the single hand schooner or light
schooner as far as hull shapes go. In fact, the side height of the
single hand schooner is the same as the windsprint but it has decks
and a heavily weighted centerboard. Think the windsprint could
handle a 1-2 foot chop?
Thanks for the insight.
Doug
> I wouldn't do it. Why not choose something else if you have to makesuch a
> radical modification to a proven design.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
i've met you at a rescue rodeo, i think i've seen you on the river a
few times and you helped me with a school project at wvu on risk
management years ago.
If not i don't think so :)
Jason
wrote:
> Jason,was more
>
> Did I ever meet you?
>
> I eventually learned how to sail the boat with the full sail, it
> exciting that way. I kind of miss it, now.Are you the john bell from asheville, NC that teaches at UNCA? If so
>
> JB
i've met you at a rescue rodeo, i think i've seen you on the river a
few times and you helped me with a school project at wvu on risk
management years ago.
If not i don't think so :)
Jason
----- Original Message -----
radical modification to a proven design.
a narrow boat and you have to keep moving to keep it upright. The angled
sides are very comfortable to lean against anyway.
something else.
> I am thinking about building a Windsprint for use in a nearby bay.Three eights would be OK, one half might be better.
> I am thinking about making a few modifications and would like some
> feedback.
>
> 1. Make the bottom from 3/8" ply due to concerns about oilcanning.
> 2. I am worried that I would not have enough freeboard for open bayI wouldn't do it. Why not choose something else if you have to make such a
> waters. What about making the sides 24" instead of 16" and keeping
> the rest of the configuration the same?
radical modification to a proven design.
> 3. With the 8" increase in height I am considering adding 8" highI found when sailing solo that seats would not be a very good idea. This is
> seats along each side for a couple of reasons. The first is after
> sitting in the bottom for a long time my back hurts. ;) The second
> is to add stiffness to the sides to compensate for the increase in
> height. The last is to add additional floatation for when (not if)
> I dump it.
a narrow boat and you have to keep moving to keep it upright. The angled
sides are very comfortable to lean against anyway.
> 3. Enclose from the Mast forward and the cross brace back to addDo it. Good idea.
> additional storage and floatation.
> 4. Increase mast height same amount as overall increase in heightNope again. Again, if the boat needs such radical mods, why not find
> to maintain sail clearance above the deck.
something else.
>(978) 282-1349
> As the waterline and such will stay the same, I dont think any
> changes would be necessary to the mast, leeboard, or rudder
> placement.
>
> I would be interested to hear of any other suggested changes and all
> feedback will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Jason,
Did I ever meet you?
I eventually learned how to sail the boat with the full sail, it was more
exciting that way. I kind of miss it, now.
JB
Did I ever meet you?
I eventually learned how to sail the boat with the full sail, it was more
exciting that way. I kind of miss it, now.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 2:42 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Windsprint modifications
> doug-
>
> The windspirit is a pretty little boat with a BIG sail. There used
> to be one near where i used to live.....it was reefed often
>
>http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/next_one.htm
>
> The above link is devoted to WS there are several pages.
>
> He writes that the sail is big and pushy, may be a bad idea to raise
> the mast height. Also having your weight up on seats could make it
> kinda squirely.....try some seat cushions and add minimal seats
> later if you can't handle that. Floatation is good! read the linked
> pages he added or planned to .....i can't remember alot of foam.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Jason,
I've read John's comments and taken them to heart. That is why I
plan on using stronger bottom ply and enclosing the end sections.
I would tend to agree on sitting as low as possible is best. The
problem is after sitting in the bottom of the PDRacer for a couple
of hours, even with seat cushions, my back is explaining that I'm
not nearly as young and limber as I used to be. Maybe 8" is too
high and 6" is better? Of course at that point, what is the real
difference? Anybody out there have thoughts on low seating in a
small boat?
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
I've read John's comments and taken them to heart. That is why I
plan on using stronger bottom ply and enclosing the end sections.
I would tend to agree on sitting as low as possible is best. The
problem is after sitting in the bottom of the PDRacer for a couple
of hours, even with seat cushions, my back is explaining that I'm
not nearly as young and limber as I used to be. Maybe 8" is too
high and 6" is better? Of course at that point, what is the real
difference? Anybody out there have thoughts on low seating in a
small boat?
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> doug-raise
>
> The windspirit is a pretty little boat with a BIG sail. There used
> to be one near where i used to live.....it was reefed often
>
>http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/next_one.htm
>
> The above link is devoted to WS there are several pages.
>
> He writes that the sail is big and pushy, may be a bad idea to
> the mast height. Also having your weight up on seats could make itlinked
> kinda squirely.....try some seat cushions and add minimal seats
> later if you can't handle that. Floatation is good! read the
> pages he added or planned to .....i can't remember alot of foam.
>
> Jason
doug-
The windspirit is a pretty little boat with a BIG sail. There used
to be one near where i used to live.....it was reefed often
http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/next_one.htm
The above link is devoted to WS there are several pages.
He writes that the sail is big and pushy, may be a bad idea to raise
the mast height. Also having your weight up on seats could make it
kinda squirely.....try some seat cushions and add minimal seats
later if you can't handle that. Floatation is good! read the linked
pages he added or planned to .....i can't remember alot of foam.
Jason
The windspirit is a pretty little boat with a BIG sail. There used
to be one near where i used to live.....it was reefed often
http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/next_one.htm
The above link is devoted to WS there are several pages.
He writes that the sail is big and pushy, may be a bad idea to raise
the mast height. Also having your weight up on seats could make it
kinda squirely.....try some seat cushions and add minimal seats
later if you can't handle that. Floatation is good! read the linked
pages he added or planned to .....i can't remember alot of foam.
Jason
I am thinking about building a Windsprint for use in a nearby bay.
I am thinking about making a few modifications and would like some
feedback.
1. Make the bottom from 3/8" ply due to concerns about oilcanning.
2. I am worried that I would not have enough freeboard for open bay
waters. What about making the sides 24" instead of 16" and keeping
the rest of the configuration the same?
3. With the 8" increase in height I am considering adding 8" high
seats along each side for a couple of reasons. The first is after
sitting in the bottom for a long time my back hurts. ;) The second
is to add stiffness to the sides to compensate for the increase in
height. The last is to add additional floatation for when (not if)
I dump it.
3. Enclose from the Mast forward and the cross brace back to add
additional storage and floatation.
4. Increase mast height same amount as overall increase in height
to maintain sail clearance above the deck.
As the waterline and such will stay the same, I dont think any
changes would be necessary to the mast, leeboard, or rudder
placement.
I would be interested to hear of any other suggested changes and all
feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Doug
I am thinking about making a few modifications and would like some
feedback.
1. Make the bottom from 3/8" ply due to concerns about oilcanning.
2. I am worried that I would not have enough freeboard for open bay
waters. What about making the sides 24" instead of 16" and keeping
the rest of the configuration the same?
3. With the 8" increase in height I am considering adding 8" high
seats along each side for a couple of reasons. The first is after
sitting in the bottom for a long time my back hurts. ;) The second
is to add stiffness to the sides to compensate for the increase in
height. The last is to add additional floatation for when (not if)
I dump it.
3. Enclose from the Mast forward and the cross brace back to add
additional storage and floatation.
4. Increase mast height same amount as overall increase in height
to maintain sail clearance above the deck.
As the waterline and such will stay the same, I dont think any
changes would be necessary to the mast, leeboard, or rudder
placement.
I would be interested to hear of any other suggested changes and all
feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Doug