RE: [bolger] Re: Rondo 2 - request to "re-subject" this thread to: "Folding Schooner Modifications"
Whoa, I got confused for a bit; most recent posts to this thread are actually NOT about that long skinny skiff celled Rondo II, but about a really neat Folding Schooner, which some believe is a boat similar in concept and sailing characteristics ('cept for the ponderousness of Rondo II !! - simply from her size...)
To keep others from getting confused like this ol' geezer, could the next postings about this really neat Folding Schooner PLEASE re-subject? Thanks
Wayne Gilham
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofpkortlucke
Sent:Tuesday, May 29, 2012 2:42 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Rondo 2
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, N <nsandidge@...> wrote:
>
> Great photos of what is arguably PCB's coolest design! Do you have a
website with more photos and performance reports?
>
> Neal
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
Sorry no website.
As to performance, well she behaved as expected. Schooners aren't great
to windward but when the breeze kicked in she was magnificent. With the
jib furled and a reef in the main with 5 guys on the rail she would
power through 1.5 metre waves at about 7 knots, taking a large
percentage of the wave over the bow as she drove through it ...just like
the scenes in Captain's Courageous. Reaching was the best course, often
sitting over 10 knots for miles, at times much more. In a real blow we
nearly hit 20 knots square.
I agree there is no cooler design.
Cheers
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, N <nsandidge@...> wrote:
As to performance, well she behaved as expected. Schooners aren't great
to windward but when the breeze kicked in she was magnificent. With the
jib furled and a reef in the main with 5 guys on the rail she would
power through 1.5 metre waves at about 7 knots, taking a large
percentage of the wave over the bow as she drove through it ...just like
the scenes in Captain's Courageous. Reaching was the best course, often
sitting over 10 knots for miles, at times much more. In a real blow we
nearly hit 20 knots square.
I agree there is no cooler design.
Cheers
Peter
>website with more photos and performance reports?
> Great photos of what is arguably PCB's coolest design! Do you have a
>Sorry no website.
> Neal
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
As to performance, well she behaved as expected. Schooners aren't great
to windward but when the breeze kicked in she was magnificent. With the
jib furled and a reef in the main with 5 guys on the rail she would
power through 1.5 metre waves at about 7 knots, taking a large
percentage of the wave over the bow as she drove through it ...just like
the scenes in Captain's Courageous. Reaching was the best course, often
sitting over 10 knots for miles, at times much more. In a real blow we
nearly hit 20 knots square.
I agree there is no cooler design.
Cheers
Peter
There is YouTube video of an Australian FS built in one piece sailing pretty fast.
Seems like it was built S&G with sealed side tanks and maybe some shrouds or runners added. Impressive boat if you have the room for it. I suspect my sailing club would kick it out of the dinghy fleets and keelboat fleets pretty quickly.
Can't find it now from my phone...
Justin
Seems like it was built S&G with sealed side tanks and maybe some shrouds or runners added. Impressive boat if you have the room for it. I suspect my sailing club would kick it out of the dinghy fleets and keelboat fleets pretty quickly.
Can't find it now from my phone...
Justin
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, N <nsandidge@...> wrote:
>
> Great photos of what is arguably PCB's coolest design! Do you have a website with more photos and performance reports?
>
> Neal
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
Great photos of what is arguably PCB's coolest design! Do you have a website with more photos and performance reports?
Neal
Sent from my iPad
Neal
Sent from my iPad
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "kevin" <lordborrolan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Is Rondo 2 a large version of the Folding Schooner, but with a cabin, deck, and heavy bottom ?, the sizes seem to suggest that it's the same only 1.25 x larger, and if so, could a Folding Schooner be made more coastal by incorperating the differences ??? Kev
My brother and I incorporated a number of features on our folding schooner which dramatically increased seaworthiness. See photos herehttp://sports.webshots.com/album/548246269VtgyuF
Interestingly my brother wrote to PCB about the changes and he and Suzanne replied that he agreed with them and would incorporate them in a future revision of the FS plans. Sadly that never happened.
Peter
I need to add that according to the Bolger in his book "The Folding Schooner" Rondo is developed from the Folding Schooner.
Back to your original question, the "The Folding Schooner" Bolger says several FS have been built with heavier scantlings (thicker wood). He expressed concern about handling the heavier hulls during the fold/unfold actions, and that the boat would be "less disposable" I think meaning it would cost to much for what it is 'sposed to be in his mind.
IMO if you can give up the folding action and build the hull in one piece, you could add something low like Rondo has that results in similar proportions to what Rondo shows.
I think I'd want to mock that up in cardboard on the garage floor to see just how useful it would be.
Don
Back to your original question, the "The Folding Schooner" Bolger says several FS have been built with heavier scantlings (thicker wood). He expressed concern about handling the heavier hulls during the fold/unfold actions, and that the boat would be "less disposable" I think meaning it would cost to much for what it is 'sposed to be in his mind.
IMO if you can give up the folding action and build the hull in one piece, you could add something low like Rondo has that results in similar proportions to what Rondo shows.
I think I'd want to mock that up in cardboard on the garage floor to see just how useful it would be.
Don
Just a couple of thoughts. First Rondo is a very unusual boat. There is a lot of gear in the 2-masted FS, and 50% more in Rondo. Rondo is not going to point well. She is very low inside. On the other hand, every now and then you will be able to reach by anything that looks like a normal yacht with whoosh.
Based on one ride in an FS, I say she is lower sided and generally smaller than the impressive LOA suggests. I read about one that was beefed up with side decks, heavier bottom, etc, and that would be good idea for any adventurous sailing, but I wouldn't go further than that.
To see what it takes to make real cruiser that length, check out Black Gauntlet II. It looks like a lot of material and labor compared to FS, but is it that much more than FS built up as you suggest? (I always thought the rig of BG didn't quite fit aesthetically. Too modern, too sloopy, but I never heard that PCB designed an alternate.)
A better suggestion would be Black Skimmer. She has as much space as the elaborated FS would have, and everyone who has had one says it's a great design.
Based on one ride in an FS, I say she is lower sided and generally smaller than the impressive LOA suggests. I read about one that was beefed up with side decks, heavier bottom, etc, and that would be good idea for any adventurous sailing, but I wouldn't go further than that.
To see what it takes to make real cruiser that length, check out Black Gauntlet II. It looks like a lot of material and labor compared to FS, but is it that much more than FS built up as you suggest? (I always thought the rig of BG didn't quite fit aesthetically. Too modern, too sloopy, but I never heard that PCB designed an alternate.)
A better suggestion would be Black Skimmer. She has as much space as the elaborated FS would have, and everyone who has had one says it's a great design.
If you are suggesting adding a cabin, heavy bottom, AND leaving it folding, I think it's not likely a good idea. The original hinge design is just adequate per Bolger's essay in "Folding Schooner". Adding to the mass weight of the boat seems unwise to me.
If you would leave out the folding capability, IMO the general answer is yes.
THis opinion is worth every penny you paid for it.
;-D
Don
If you would leave out the folding capability, IMO the general answer is yes.
THis opinion is worth every penny you paid for it.
;-D
Don
Hi, Is Rondo 2 a large version of the Folding Schooner, but with a cabin, deck, and heavy bottom ?, the sizes seem to suggest that it's the same only 1.25 x larger, and if so, could a Folding Schooner be made more coastal by incorperating the differences ??? Kev
> I really wonder what would happen to Rondo 2 if it got knockeddown.
Interesting question. She has a very thick wooden bottom which is
meant to be ballast to pull her back, and the enclosed volumes are
supposed to float her without taking on water when she's on her side.
But all that was supposed to be true of Martha Jane, too.
Peter
Speaking of Rondo 2, I just got a copy of the Folding Schooner and I
really wonder what would happen to Rondo 2 if it got knocked down.
really wonder what would happen to Rondo 2 if it got knocked down.