checking ply
penitrol is only for under oil paints.
to just use epoxy use the SLOWSEST epoxy and keep a wet film
on the ply for 4 to 6 hours just brush it back and forth so there are no
dry looking spots. quick sand the next day and do it again paint light colors you will get a couple of years if you do it right.
the main thing is to fully saturate the first layer.
mike
============================================================
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: 2004/06/28 Mon AM 11:02:52 EDT
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Digest Number 2064
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. checking plywood
From: <mkriley@...>
2. RE: checking plywood
From: "David Romasco" <dromasco@...>
3. Re: I 60 Progress?
From: David Ryan <david@...>
4. Re: checking plywood
From: David Ryan <david@...>
5. Penetrol
From: David Ryan <david@...>
6. Re: I 60 Progress?
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
7. Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
From: "Ed Heins" <eheins@...>
8. Re: Rondo 2
From: Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...>
9. Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
From:cha62759@...
10. Re: Useful books
From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
11. Re: Flag Protocol
From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
12. Re: Flag Protocol
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
13. Micro Mainsail for sail
From: "dbaldnz" <oink@...>
14. Re: checking plywood
From:jhkohnen@...
15. Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: Marius Lubbe - Creative MindsR HQ <marius@...>
16. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
17. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
18. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
19. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
20. Re: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
21. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
22. Birdwatcher in S Jersey/DE/Upper Chesapeake area?
From: Schooner CASHIER Restoration <SchoonerCashier@...>
23. Re: Birdwatcher in S Jersey/DE/Upper Chesapeake area?
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
24. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
25. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: grant corson <corson@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:33:03 -0400
From: <mkriley@...>
Subject: checking plywood
I have had very good luck with a PENITROL prep of the bare plywood to prevent checking. it consists of flooding the surface with penitrol and keeping a wet film for 15 min.wipe off, repeat once the first day and one more time the next with the penitrol cut 50% with the topcoat. I have had very good results. I believe the directions are on the can. in lue of the penitrol
give the bare wood a couple of thinned out coats of topcoat Before the primer. I have maintained boats in florida for a living and have had some of the same ones for over a decade.
thanks
mike
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:43:40 -0400
From: "David Romasco" <dromasco@...>
Subject: RE: checking plywood
Mike,
Have you ever tried to get an epoxy bond to that treated ply, or are you
applying an oil-based paint system?
David
_____
From:mkriley@...[mailto:mkriley@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:33 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] checking plywood
I have had very good luck with a PENITROL prep of the bare plywood to
prevent checking. it consists of flooding the surface with penitrol and
keeping a wet film for 15 min.wipe off, repeat once the first day and one
more time the next with the penitrol cut 50% with the topcoat. I have had
very good results. I believe the directions are on the can. in lue of the
penitrol
give the bare wood a couple of thinned out coats of topcoat Before the
primer. I have maintained boats in florida for a living and have had some of
the same ones for over a decade.
thanks
mike
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:03:11 -0400
From: David Ryan <david@...>
Subject: Re: I 60 Progress?
from the one's that I have. In mine the bow folds at a more acute
angle than the stern. Without getting them out, I recollect that the
bulkheads in the aft section are square, and the angle is imparted by
the hinge. The forward section has offset bulkheads.
The galley is at least as "cookable" as our city apartment kitchen!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:39:16 -0400
From: David Ryan <david@...>
Subject: Re: checking plywood
This sounds promising!
Aside from reducing the work of finishing the boat, I'd love to have
a way to be able to see a little wood grain in the side panels. I'll
have to give PENITROL a try.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:42:11 -0400
From: David Ryan <david@...>
Subject: Penetrol
http://www.floodco.com/Products/penetrol.cfm
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:52:33 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
Subject: Re: I 60 Progress?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:22:18 -0400
From: "Ed Heins" <eheins@...>
Subject: Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
I vote for finishing bright then throughbolting. You have an oppportunity then to remove it and refinish the brightwork off the boat. Just my opinion.
to just use epoxy use the SLOWSEST epoxy and keep a wet film
on the ply for 4 to 6 hours just brush it back and forth so there are no
dry looking spots. quick sand the next day and do it again paint light colors you will get a couple of years if you do it right.
the main thing is to fully saturate the first layer.
mike
============================================================
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: 2004/06/28 Mon AM 11:02:52 EDT
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Digest Number 2064
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. checking plywood
From: <mkriley@...>
2. RE: checking plywood
From: "David Romasco" <dromasco@...>
3. Re: I 60 Progress?
From: David Ryan <david@...>
4. Re: checking plywood
From: David Ryan <david@...>
5. Penetrol
From: David Ryan <david@...>
6. Re: I 60 Progress?
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
7. Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
From: "Ed Heins" <eheins@...>
8. Re: Rondo 2
From: Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...>
9. Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
From:cha62759@...
10. Re: Useful books
From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
11. Re: Flag Protocol
From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
12. Re: Flag Protocol
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
13. Micro Mainsail for sail
From: "dbaldnz" <oink@...>
14. Re: checking plywood
From:jhkohnen@...
15. Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: Marius Lubbe - Creative MindsR HQ <marius@...>
16. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
17. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
18. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
19. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
20. Re: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
21. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
22. Birdwatcher in S Jersey/DE/Upper Chesapeake area?
From: Schooner CASHIER Restoration <SchoonerCashier@...>
23. Re: Birdwatcher in S Jersey/DE/Upper Chesapeake area?
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
24. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
25. Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
From: grant corson <corson@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:33:03 -0400
From: <mkriley@...>
Subject: checking plywood
I have had very good luck with a PENITROL prep of the bare plywood to prevent checking. it consists of flooding the surface with penitrol and keeping a wet film for 15 min.wipe off, repeat once the first day and one more time the next with the penitrol cut 50% with the topcoat. I have had very good results. I believe the directions are on the can. in lue of the penitrol
give the bare wood a couple of thinned out coats of topcoat Before the primer. I have maintained boats in florida for a living and have had some of the same ones for over a decade.
thanks
mike
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:43:40 -0400
From: "David Romasco" <dromasco@...>
Subject: RE: checking plywood
Mike,
Have you ever tried to get an epoxy bond to that treated ply, or are you
applying an oil-based paint system?
David
_____
From:mkriley@...[mailto:mkriley@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:33 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] checking plywood
I have had very good luck with a PENITROL prep of the bare plywood to
prevent checking. it consists of flooding the surface with penitrol and
keeping a wet film for 15 min.wipe off, repeat once the first day and one
more time the next with the penitrol cut 50% with the topcoat. I have had
very good results. I believe the directions are on the can. in lue of the
penitrol
give the bare wood a couple of thinned out coats of topcoat Before the
primer. I have maintained boats in florida for a living and have had some of
the same ones for over a decade.
thanks
mike
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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*http://www.sodaclubusa.com/referrer.asp?redirect=rv_boat_camp.asp&referrer=
0002_0015_0178_0002>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:03:11 -0400
From: David Ryan <david@...>
Subject: Re: I 60 Progress?
>The bow and stern sections pivot and fold asymetrically, the foldIf this is so (mirror angle) then Sue's plans are a further revision
>bulheads do not run straight across the beam as most bulkheads do,
>but rather at about a 8 degree angle off true, and the stern fold the
>mirror angle. This to let the tips clear and overlap.
from the one's that I have. In mine the bow folds at a more acute
angle than the stern. Without getting them out, I recollect that the
bulkheads in the aft section are square, and the angle is imparted by
the hinge. The forward section has offset bulkheads.
The galley is at least as "cookable" as our city apartment kitchen!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:39:16 -0400
From: David Ryan <david@...>
Subject: Re: checking plywood
This sounds promising!
Aside from reducing the work of finishing the boat, I'd love to have
a way to be able to see a little wood grain in the side panels. I'll
have to give PENITROL a try.
YIBB,
David
>I have had very good luck with a PENITROL prep of the bare plywood--
>to prevent checking. it consists of flooding the surface with
>penitrol and keeping a wet film for 15 min.wipe off, repeat once the
>first day and one more time the next with the penitrol cut 50% with
>the topcoat. I have had very good results. I believe the directions
>are on the can. in lue of the penitrol
>give the bare wood a couple of thinned out coats of topcoat Before
>the primer. I have maintained boats in florida for a living and have
>had some of the same ones for over a decade.
>thanks
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:42:11 -0400
From: David Ryan <david@...>
Subject: Penetrol
http://www.floodco.com/Products/penetrol.cfm
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:52:33 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
Subject: Re: I 60 Progress?
> The galley is at least as "cookable" as our city apartment kitchen!"Still not a strong claim." - Philip C. Bolger
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:22:18 -0400
From: "Ed Heins" <eheins@...>
Subject: Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
I vote for finishing bright then throughbolting. You have an oppportunity then to remove it and refinish the brightwork off the boat. Just my opinion.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Stancil
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:21 AM
Subject: [bolger] compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
Trying to look ahead to the finishing part of this project.
What is the opinion of folks as far as attaching grabrails, toerails
and the likes. I want to finish these parts bright while the deck
gets paint.
So should i finish seperately then thru bolt the brightwork into
some bedding/5200?......or epoxy it all together and then mask and
finish indipendently?
Thanks,
Jason
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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Yahoo! Groups Links
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:15:14 -0700
From: Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...>
Subject: Re: Rondo 2
Speaking of Rondo 2, I just got a copy of the Folding Schooner and I
really wonder what would happen to Rondo 2 if it got knocked down.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 19:38:22 -0000
From:cha62759@...
Subject: Re: compound bedding vs. epoxy for deck hardware
By all means varnish all those small bits off the boat but don't use
5200 unless you plan on not removing anything. 5200 really sticks and
if you try removing something stuck with 5200 you may also pull up the
top ply of your deck or whatever. Use a less tenacious compound. I've
taken to using old fashioned bedding compound for removable bits.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:
> Trying to look ahead to the finishing part of this project.
> What is the opinion of folks as far as attaching grabrails, toerails
> and the likes. I want to finish these parts bright while the deck
> gets paint.
>
> So should i finish seperately then thru bolt the brightwork into
> some bedding/5200?......or epoxy it all together and then mask and
> finish indipendently?
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:05:40 -0400
From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
Subject: Re: Useful books
I'll second the recommendation for Rueul Parker's _The New Cold-Molded
Boatbuilding_, and also
add George Buehler's _Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding_. While both of
these books are aimed at those building larger cruisers, they both are
full of good advice and "can-do" attitude from folks who have been
doing it for a while.
You can't have too many books on boatbuilding:)
However, if you only want/can afford a few, start with Payson and
Michalak, as these will definately be most applicable to the kind of
boat you will be building first.
The most valuable part in Devlin's book to my mind is the section on
getting stitch and glue panel shapes from regular lines drawings
through use of a small model.
Bob
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 03:39:23 -0000
> From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
> Subject: Useful books
>
> I'm looking to do more detailed reading re building Bolger style
> plywood "instant" boats. My first will likely be a Work Skiff 18,
> with a cuddy added. Yeah I know I could build an Michalak AF4 from
> the plans. I wish to build the Bolger because I want to become
> familiar with working with his plans.
>
> But I'd like to do some additional reading. I'm considering Sam
> Devlin's book "Devlin's Boatbuilding: How to Build Any Boat the
> Stitch-and-Glue Way", Boatbuilding for Beginners (And Beyond)" by
> Jim Michalak, and "Build the New Instant Boats" by Payson.
>
> I'm interested in which will provide the most detailed insight into
> building a solid plywood boat. I'm favoring starting w' the Devlin
> book but would like to hear from those who have read more than one of
> the choices and find they gain valuable skills from book reading.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:34:55 -0400
From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
Subject: Re: Flag Protocol
Forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this, I've been on
vacation for a week an d am working my way through a weeks worth of
Bolger Digests.
On a sail rig with a gaff or yard, the traditional place for the US
Ensign (either the 50 stars or the circle & anchor version) is at the
peak of the gaff, that is at the top, rear edge of the sail, on the
aftermost mast in the case of vessels with more than one mast. The
2/3s up the leech on a marconi sail came about in approximation of
where the gaff would be if the sail were a gaff main with a topsail set
above.
The Coast Guard Auxiliary and the US Power Squadron both have info on
flag protocol on their web sites.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:27:57 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
Subject: Re: Flag Protocol
> The 2/3s up the leech on a marconi sail came about in
> approximation of where the gaff would be if the sail were
> a gaff main with a topsail set above.
Government thinking. How else could it be put in such an
unsatisfactory place.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 03:40:25 -0000
From: "dbaldnz" <oink@...>
Subject: Micro Mainsail for sail
Since I changed to a Navigator rig, my Micro mainsail is no longer
required. It is new condition, and I will air-freight it to the USA
(or anywhere else with freight adjustment), for less than the cost
of a Sailrite kit.
There are photos and fuller description on my website-
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
DonB
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:13:39 -0700
From:jhkohnen@...
Subject: Re: checking plywood
Mike-
Have you used penetrol with good results on Douglas fir plywood? That's the
most notorious plywood for checking.
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:33:03 -0400, Mike wrote:
> I have had very good luck with a PENITROL prep of the bare plywood to
prevent checking. it consists of flooding the surface with penitrol and
keeping a wet film for 15 min.wipe off, repeat once the first day and one
more time the next with the penitrol cut 50% with the topcoat. I have had
very good results. I believe the directions are on the can.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell by
Dickens without laughing. <Oscar Wilde>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:12:31 +0200
From: Marius Lubbe - Creative MindsR HQ <marius@...>
Subject: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
Dear Friends,
I am a novice in these things and therefore ask that you bear with me if my
thoughts seem weird.
1. What is the reason for using a glass - based cloth?
why not something that will accept proper impregnation like silk or cotton
or other natural fibre.
2. In the same area of thought. can one use something like corn flour or
some other plant flour as a thickening agent for epoxy fillets, if not why?
Thanks
Marius
Marius Lubbe
Creative MindsR HQ
Cape Town, South Africa
Phone: 082 785 7763
www.minds.co.za
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:04:40 -0400
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
>2. In the same area of thought. can one use something like corn flour or
>some other plant flour as a thickening agent for epoxy fillets, if not why?
Any flour will work. Cornstarch, powdered limestone, wood flour.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:25:11 -0400
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marius Lubbe - Creative MindsR HQ" <marius@...>
> 1. What is the reason for using a glass - based cloth?
Strength! Glass which is free of impurities and small fractures is one of
the strongest materials on earth. With fibers, the flaws have already
broken. The combination of incredibly strong glass fibers with the elastic
nature of the cured epoxy is what makes the result better than either
element alone.
> why not something that will accept proper impregnation like silk or cotton
> or other natural fibre.
Pretty weak stuff. Why add something that won't make the final product
better? Fiberglass cloth from an epoxy vendor is coated to promote the
bond.
> 2. In the same area of thought. can one use something like corn flour or
> some other plant flour as a thickening agent for epoxy fillets, if not
why?
Wood flour would seem to fall into this category, and it is my favorite
filler. Other fillers offer different characteristics; e.g. lime for a hard
coating, silica thickener for colorless coating, silicon carbide for
incredible hardness, ...
One purpose for a filler is to provide thixotropic properties. Unthickened
epoxy runs and runs and runs. (A model railroader cast a fine lake of
unthickened epoxy. The next morning, all of the epoxy was on the floor.
He'd left a pinhole in the lake bed.) Not all additives provide this.
Quoting from System Three's "The Epoxy Book:"
SECTION VI C
USING FILLERS WITH EPOXY RESIN
System Three epoxy properly mixed is intended for both coating and
fiberglassing. When used "right out of the jug", the mixture is said to be
"unfilled" and it is too thin to be used as a gap filling adhesive or for
fairing and filleting compounds. For these applications certain fillers are
added. These materials change the flow and density characteristics of the
epoxy system.
All fillers sold for use with System Three epoxy products are solid
materials, falling into four general classes: thixotropic agents, bulking
agents, fibrous fillers, and pigments. There is some overlapping as to
function of certain fillers. For example, plastic minifibers is both fibrous
and acts also as a thixotropic agent.
Silica thickener (Cab-O-Sil), plastic minifibers and wood flourare
thixotropic agents. They turn the epoxy into a thixotropic fluid. Most
people are not familiar with the term "thixotropic" though everyone is
familiar with the properties of these fluids. They flow under shear stress
but do not flow once the stress is removed. Ketchup and latex house paints
are thixotropic fluids. Adding these agents to the mixed resin and hardener
produces a fluid which will easily flow under the spreading stress of a
putty knife. Once the stress is removed the thickened epoxy retains shape.
In short, these fillers make the epoxy non-sagging, being added to restrict
drainage and make gap filling adhesives.
Phenolic microballoons, quartz microspheres, and wood flour are bulking
agents. They "bulk out" the epoxy making a lightweight putty like mix.
Although all these thicken the epoxy, only wood flour will make it
thixotropic. Attempting to add sufficient microballoons or microspheres to
make a non-sagging fairing putty will result in one that spreads poorly.
These materials should be used along with a thixotropic agent. Silica
thickener is the best choice because it produces the smoothest compound.
Chopped glass strands, milled glass fibers, and plastic minifibers are
fibrous materials that can be incorporated into structural filleting putties
to improve tensile strength, and are listed above in descending order of
tensile strength improvement.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Lots of good stuff in this free publication, and it applies to most epoxy
vendor's products.
Roger
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:17:16 -0400
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
>1. What is the reason for using a glass - based cloth?
>
>why not something that will accept proper impregnation like silk or cotton
>or other natural fibre.
Strength, I imagine. You could use any cloth. Burlap, for example.
Note that epoxy is heavier than the cloth, so you want something that will
fill with epoxy without soaking it up. Soaking the cloth only means more
weight and more $ spent for epoxy.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:40:27 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
> > 1. What is the reason for using a glass - based cloth?
> Strength!
They do say that silk is very strong. However, the has to be a match
between the tensile and compressive strength coefficients between
the fiber and the resin. And I don't know if it would wet out
properly, or if there is chemical compatibility.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:56:37 -0400
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
Silk does ring a bell, but I've no idea where to look further After pricing
vinyl for smoothing, I'm going to experiment further with Peel-Ply ... but
that's the approach we don't want for reinforcing..
Spider webs do well too, and here in Southern Indiana we have many, many,
very industrious spiders drifting around on their one strand parachutes.
You may be onto something here.
Don't you need some kind of special tree to encourage/optimize silk worm
production?
Roger (Dow-Corning doesn't have the only effective spinerets.)
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
> > > 1. What is the reason for using a glass - based cloth?
> > Strength!
>
> They do say that silk is very strong. However, the has to be a match
> between the tensile and compressive strength coefficients between
> the fiber and the resin. And I don't know if it would wet out
> properly, or if there is chemical compatibility.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 21
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:52:53 -0000
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
> Don't you need some kind of special tree to encourage/optimize
silk worm
> production?
Mulberry bushes, IIRC from elementary school.
There was an annoucement lately about artifical silk production. I
forget if it was straight chemical or if, more likely, it had to do
with putting a silkworm gene in a spider (or some other, more
tractable animal). I hope they don't put it in a cow!
Peter
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 22
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:09:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Schooner CASHIER Restoration <SchoonerCashier@...>
Subject: Birdwatcher in S Jersey/DE/Upper Chesapeake area?
My friend and I are considering building a Birdwatcher (prob. II), but neither of us has ever seen one in person. Are there any in this area that we could visit? or possibly even sail on?
thx,
Greg DeCowsky
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:21:47 -0400
From: craig o'donnell <dadadata@...>
Subject: Re: Birdwatcher in S Jersey/DE/Upper Chesapeake area?
>My friend and I are considering building a Birdwatcher (prob. II), but
>neither of us has ever seen one in person. Are there any in this area that
>we could visit? or possibly even sail on?
>
>thx,
>Greg DeCowsky
How bout mine?
Seeable immediately. Sailable in a week or two (got to get sail at Bacon's).
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:41:26 -0000
From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
They have put a spider gene in goats, so as the silk is produced in
the goat's mammary glands. When the goat is milked the "silk"
somehow precipitates into strands out of the milk. Folks are looking
at develping this stuff for biodegradible fishing line and as a
suture material. Something like 200+ times(total guess i read this a
while back) stronger than steel
Glad to see biodegradable fishing line but kind of a scary way to go
about it.
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
> > Don't you need some kind of special tree to encourage/optimize
> silk worm
> > production?
>
> Mulberry bushes, IIRC from elementary school.
>
> There was an annoucement lately about artifical silk production. I
> forget if it was straight chemical or if, more likely, it had to
do
> with putting a silkworm gene in a spider (or some other, more
> tractable animal). I hope they don't put it in a cow!
>
> Peter
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 25
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:02:36 -0400
From: grant corson <corson@...>
Subject: Re: Natural alternatives to Fibreglass cloth?
I guess my first question would be why not use fiberglass cloth as it is a
proven effective product. Aside from the fact that fibers can be irritating
if used carelessly it works well in boat building. To get away from the
itch dynel fabric is an excellent but more expensive alternative. Strong,
reliable and no itch.
Grant in Vermont about two weeks away from launching my repro 1929 cabin
cruiser (I hope)
on 6/28/04 6:12 AM, Marius Lubbe - Creative MindsR HQ at
marius@...wrote:
> Dear Friends,
>
> I am a novice in these things and therefore ask that you bear with me if my
> thoughts seem weird.
>
> 1. What is the reason for using a glass - based cloth?
>
> why not something that will accept proper impregnation like silk or cotton
> or other natural fibre.
>
>
> 2. In the same area of thought. can one use something like corn flour or
> some other plant flour as a thickening agent for epoxy fillets, if not why?
>
> Thanks
> Marius
>
> Marius Lubbe
> Creative MindsR HQ
> Cape Town, South Africa
> Phone: 082 785 7763
> www.minds.co.za
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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