Re: Information on Bolger boats (OSTAR 30, AS-29 )

I thought I might be nice and post a scan of the Newfoundlander since
I interjected it into the discussion. However, my moody scanner
(which worked so well yesterday) will not function tonight. I'll try
again in a while. Meanwhile, a statistical comparision.

OSTAR 30

lwl = 29'6"
beam = 7' 6"
draft = 6'6" max, 3' 6" min
ballast = 1000 lbs
disp = ????
sail area = 550 sq ft.

Newfoundlander

lwl = 29'
beam = 8'3"
draft = 3'6"
ballast = 2520 lbs
disp = 9300 lbs
sail area = 406

I wish Bolger was more consistent about giving displacement numbers.
I didn't see one for the OSTAR. Based on the ballast number, I'd
guess the OSTAR 30 would weigh in at about half the Newfoundlander,
and have much more speed.

Peter

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proaconstrictor"
<proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:

> I'd like to see that Ostar 50 Peter. Currently they won't let me
> download it since you are little over your memory capacity.

Thomas,
I finally got through to Peter V's site and that 50 footer is
actually listed as 59 X 11 X 10 ! One big dagger board with 2600lbs
hanging on to the tip and 2 rudders...one all the way forward and the
other in the usual location.
No accommodation plan is shown but that has to be one of the
slickest 60 footers I've seen with very,very,fine ends.
The rig is a hoot too but I won't spoil it for you,instead I hope
you can get through to check it out with your own eyes.

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,amazed at Bolgers thinking :-)

Good enough for me. Where do you do most of your sailing? River,
lake, ocean etc.... Whats was one of your most exciting sailing
adventures on your AS-29?

Todd

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> By the way, my AS-29 points 45 degrees
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
> > Why is it that it seems everyone is so concerned on how high a
boat
> > can point? For me If I can get good speed at 50,60 degrees I'm
> > happy. I hate beating into the wind anyways. I have never found
it a
> > problem getting away from a lee shore or back to where I started
from.
> > I'd rather send it deep and hold on.......
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > > Centenial II
> > > It was in the Pilot Issue of Small Boat Journal.
> > >
> > >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/centenial2.gif
> > >
> > > I understand that it is a nice simple boat, but
> > > doesn't point to windward like fancier boats.

By the way, my AS-29 points 45 degrees

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Todd" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
> Why is it that it seems everyone is so concerned on how high a boat
> can point? For me If I can get good speed at 50,60 degrees I'm
> happy. I hate beating into the wind anyways. I have never found it a
> problem getting away from a lee shore or back to where I started from.
> I'd rather send it deep and hold on.......
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Todd
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > Centenial II
> > It was in the Pilot Issue of Small Boat Journal.
> >
> >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/centenial2.gif
> >
> > I understand that it is a nice simple boat, but
> > doesn't point to windward like fancier boats.

Too bad they have blown away the smaller classes in what remains of
the OSTAR.

Anyone wanting a cheaper still pile of gaff rigged plywood (though
the plans will set you back) that has actualy crossed the Atlantic in
a Star race, points high, shoal draft, unsinkable, etc... Should
consider the Wharram Tiki 26. Bob Berg of big boat racing fame
campaigned one, and made pretty good time. He has either 2 or three
other crossing in that boat, before going on to even greater fame.
There is video, stalled in the cutting room, where he sails jauntily
past the QE II as it steams in the opposite directions, while chating
with the captain over the radio.

He did, in fact take the GRP model, but in this particular case I'm
not sure that difference maters much, they are pretty indentical
boats.

The one thing that I wondered about the Bolger Ostar is whether the
motion would be acceptible if she didn't heel much but was working
through waves. Anyway the folks who are into this kind of thing
don't seem to care about a thrashing.

I'd like to see that Ostar 50 Peter. Currently they won't let me
download it since you are little over your memory capacity.

> do tell and or show......what is the newfoundland a dog and a
> landmass that's all i know.

The Newfoundlander is a 28' design for singlehanding. It's a full
keel, round bottom model. If you were to think of a Cape Dory 27 or
30 with a gaff cat rig (like the OSTAR 30) and raised deck (almost,
sorta like a Stone Horse) you would be in the ballpark. Very sweet
lines with a firm bilge and quite v-eed sections.

The client sailed in Newfoundland. He wanted a coal stove for warmth
and cooking, and it dominates the cabin. As I recall the interior
called for 4 pipe perths, the stove, and not much else.

Also, IIRC, the berths are troopship narrow, as PCB usually draws
them. Is there anyone besides me who would insist on at least 30",
camp cot width?

By the way, PCB's writeup says the boat was designed for Novi
construction, nailed carvel on sawn frames, but on the plans he
wrote instruction for using screws. It's sort of fun to find the
inconsistencies. In this case, I'm sure PCB though screws were
better and said so, even though he knew nails would be used and made
sure there were enough frames so the nails would hold.

If the boat is still around, it's about time to pull all those nails
and refasten with screws. Otherwise she'll be spitting her caulking.

Peter

do tell and or show......what is the newfoundland a dog and a
landmass that's all i know.

I'd be nervous offshore in a as-29.....anyone know what the
stability curve boils down to? It's actually probably really high in
the steel plated version.

Bet bolger would allow a slightly larger dog house you could stand
up in and provisions to pull that board up so you could beach it.
best of both worlds. I just like the lowered freeboard......retains
the sharpie-esque look. IMHO

Regardless the as-29 and now the ostar 30 are in my top 10 non
production boats.

Is that a tortoise you can see on the deck of the ostar 30 in that
scan?

Jason

Thanks Peter, the large scans are appreciated, I like to see the
detail. I find that '16 color GIF's' usually save more detail per kb
than jpg's for line drawings
and black and white text. jpg's remain the best for color though.

The 29'6" 'box sharpie' is especially interesting, like a souped up AS-29.
Was one of these ever built? Sailboat races could and should be
handicaped by the cost of the racing boat <grin>.

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 23:09:45 -0000, pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> > Are there any scans of the flat bottom ostar racer?
> Is now.
>
> As it turns out a) I don't seem to have the issue of MAIB with Gary's
> boat, and b) there are actually 3 OSTAR racers, though one is not
> small and cheap.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pb_ostar_30.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pb_ostar_50.JPG
>
> The scans did turned out very big. Sorry if it's a problem.
>
> Peter
>

> Whoo hoo!
> Mark my word. When i grow up :) i'm going to cruise in
> that Ostar 30 sharpie.

To each his own. For myself, I would take the comfort, headroom, and
shoal draft of the AS-29, and leave the high-speed heroics to you.

Or, I would go with the Newfoundlander, a design I much admire
except for the styling of the raised deck. PCB has done much better
raised decks than that one. (I think I wouldn't need the coal stove
and could go with a more symmetrical interior arrangement.)

Peter

Whoo hoo!
Mark my word. When i grow up :) i'm going to cruise in that Ostar 30
sharpie. Fits the nich that i found missing in the boxes between
jessie cooper and the AS29. So it never got built? Anyone know what
the plans go for?

Jason

back from a weeks worth of drugery and field work, hammering away at
the navigator should resume by nightfall........now that i've got
both decks on and the pilothouse partially framed, i'm really
suprised with the interior volume......like a little shanty boat,
almost.

> Are there any scans of the flat bottom ostar racer?

Is now.

As it turns out a) I don't seem to have the issue of MAIB with Gary's
boat, and b) there are actually 3 OSTAR racers, though one is not
small and cheap.

http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pb_ostar_30.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pb_ostar_50.JPG

The scans did turned out very big. Sorry if it's a problem.

Peter

Are there any scans of the flat bottom ostar racer?
Todd

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:

> As to the OSTAR racers, here is my memory dump. Be warned, however,
> that my memory is faulty. I'm not sure of the order of design.
>
> One boat is a 30' flat-bottom boat with a hull shaped somewhat like
> AS-29, but with much less freeboard and a drop keel with a heavy
> bulb. The rig was a gaff cat. As far as I know, it was never built.
>
> Peter

> He designed Centennial II to cross the atlantic?
> Come on are you yanking my chain or what?

Yes and no.

The boat was inspired by the dory Centennial which was rowed across
the Atlantic, and was meant to be a minimum boat which was really
seaworthy. So, yes.

However, his write up from the Pilot issue of Small Boat Journal
contained the warning that if 1000 set sail from the US to Europe,
probably 20 would go missing. For PCB, that would be an unacceptable
death rate. So, no.

As to the OSTAR racers, here is my memory dump. Be warned, however,
that my memory is faulty. I'm not sure of the order of design.

One boat is a 30' flat-bottom boat with a hull shaped somewhat like
AS-29, but with much less freeboard and a drop keel with a heavy
bulb. The rig was a gaff cat. As far as I know, it was never built.

The second boat was for Gary Blankenship as best I remember. The
design has a fixed keel with high aspect ratio. I think it's multi-
chine. Not a square boat at any rate. The original design called for
a dipping lug rig (!!), but the boat was rigged with a standing lug.
Gary reported that it was approximately as fast as a Catalina 27.
With the dipping lug, it would have been faster as long as tacking
was not required. The keel intruded on the low cabin, so I gather
the interior was inconvenient. It may be that the design did not
call for a proper cockpit either. PCB seems to feel that footwells
are a luxury option, sometimes.

Gary lives in the shoal water paradise of Florida and got PCB to
design a new keel, which turned out to be the prototype of the
retracting wing for the I60.

Stretching my memory into not-to-be-believed territory, I think I
recall comments from Gary to the jist that the boat was easy to
build and fairly fast, but really inconvenient. To interpret these
remarks properly, you should know that Gary seems to be the kind of
guy who could turn out a respectable copy of your average instant
boat in a weekend.

At least, I think it was he.

Peter

> Todd <ktsrfer@...> wrote:
> He design centinal II to cross the atlantic come on are you yanking
> my chain or what?

Quoting Bolger "the smallest boat that could be called fit
to keep the sea in bad weather". [Centennial II] "a quick and
dirty sea going boat". "I defy anyone to get a more all-weather
boat out of 11 sheets of plywood. It can't be done:" "If a thousand
of these started for Europe from Gloucester over a ten year stretch.
I wouldn't be surprised if 20 or so of them went missing." "If someone
wants to do something risky, like going to sea in a very cheap boat,
I don't feel like I have either a right or an obligation to try to stop him."

Bolger designed Centennial II in 1976 in response to the anniversary
of the crossing of the Atlantic in a sailed Banks Dory in 1876.

Here is a picture:

http://hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/C2.gif

To me it just seems wierd how the first thing most people say when
they see a new boat is usually well how well does it go to weather.
Like if it doesn't do hull speed at 30 dgrees its a failure.

He design centinal II to cross the atlantic come on are you yanking
my chain or what?

Todd

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Racing boats need to point high, cruisers do not. The trouble
> begins when you want a boat that can both cruise and race.
> Bolger designed Centennial II as the cheapest, reasonably
> safe boat, for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. I wonder what
> other boats he would consider meeting that criteria.
>

pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:

> > Bolger designed Centennial II as the cheapest, reasonably
> > safe boat, for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. I wonder what
> > other boats he would consider meeting that criteria.
>
> His two OSTAR racers, certainly.

Information on these OSTAR boats is scarce. Our database mentions
a 60 'concept' and a 29' design #459 from an old MAIB volume #10

Does anybody have a copy of that old MAIB article to share?

And/or other pointers to references?

> Bolger designed Centennial II as the cheapest, reasonably
> safe boat, for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. I wonder what
> other boats he would consider meeting that criteria.

His two OSTAR racers, certainly.

Possibly his ocean-crossing rowboats.

Lynx is small, but not cheap. IIRC, he wrote "it's not easy to
imagine the conditions that would put her down."

His remarks on Jesse Cooper are, shall we say, ambivalent.

Ordinary standards of seaworthiness would require that any cruising
boat over 30' be basically fit for open water, so we need not
enumerate Sweet Chariot, Volunteer, Africa, etc. Any particular
boat would be subject to evaluation for construction, equipment,
supplies, etc.

Peter

Todd <ktsrfer@...> wrote:

> Why is it that it seems everyone is so concerned on how high a boat
> can point? For me If I can get good speed at 50,60 degrees I'm
> happy. I hate beating into the wind anyways.

Not everyone is concerned about pointing ability.

Racing boats need to point high, cruisers do not. The trouble
begins when you want a boat that can both cruise and race.
Bolger designed Centennial II as the cheapest, reasonably
safe boat, for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. I wonder what
other boats he would consider meeting that criteria.

Perhaps Seabird86? Which others?

Bruce ,

Thanks for the info. If I had the space and a few less boats in my
backyard I would consider building with a few changes to the
leeboards and rudder. Call me wierd but I like the hull lines and the
dog house. Kinda reminds me of the light schooner hull with a few
changes. I wonder how simple it is to reef that rig? Anyways looks
like a great sailing simple and fun boat project.

Why is it that it seems everyone is so concerned on how high a boat
can point? For me If I can get good speed at 50,60 degrees I'm
happy. I hate beating into the wind anyways. I have never found it a
problem getting away from a lee shore or back to where I started from.
I'd rather send it deep and hold on.......

Thanks again.

Todd

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> Centenial II
> It was in the Pilot Issue of Small Boat Journal.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/centenial2.gif
>
> I understand that it is a nice simple boat, but
> doesn't point to windward like fancier boats.

Centenial II
It was in the Pilot Issue of Small Boat Journal.

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/centenial2.gif

I understand that it is a nice simple boat, but
doesn't point to windward like fancier boats.

Sounds like Centennial?
Not sure which file/photo section.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd" <ktsrfer@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:25 PM
Subject: [bolger] Information on Bolger boats


> Hey awhile back someone posted a scan of a 24' supper simple teal
> style boat with a dog house. What was the name of the boat and where
> can I find the scan? My computer wiped out by virus/hacker....
>
> Todd
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hey awhile back someone posted a scan of a 24' supper simple teal
style boat with a dog house. What was the name of the boat and where
can I find the scan? My computer wiped out by virus/hacker....

Todd