Re: Oldshoe - Tell us about it!
Here is the email of Joe Tribulato, he built and sailed his OldShoe
near Monteray in California. It is a nice boat but he is selling
it. He just likes building boats, he has built sevral dozen in the
last ten years or so.scsbmsjoe@...He can give you the
complete rundown of what you need to know.
John Cupp
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...>
wrote:
near Monteray in California. It is a nice boat but he is selling
it. He just likes building boats, he has built sevral dozen in the
last ten years or so.scsbmsjoe@...He can give you the
complete rundown of what you need to know.
John Cupp
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...>
wrote:
> Justin,
> It would seem that making that top removable, like a
> camper top on a pickup would not add greatly to the
> complication. I can see that having all that
> structure up in the wind could be a problem. As one
> learns his boat possibly he could predict when to
> leave it at home. For shure on race day! I certainly
> would like the shade option. Light air with tip out
> side windows would truly be a different experience.
> Cold weather with windows shut would extend the
> season. A place to sleep with the bugs sealed out is
> a plus. I guess it depends on what you want to do an
> a particular day.
>
> Don't seem to be able to squeeze any stories out of
> anybody about the boat though. I need to build it and
> make some I guess!
>
> Gene T.
>
> --- Justin Meddock <jmeddock@n...> wrote:
> >
> > > How about a birdwatcher
> > > cabin like one of Bolger's other tiny boats
> > > (lapstrake, don't recall the name now)?.....
> >
> > Supermouse from BWAOM? Anyway, PCB calls
> > that one House Mouse now. I have the plans, no place
> > to build a real project like that yet...
> >
> > Justin
Justin,
It would seem that making that top removable, like a
camper top on a pickup would not add greatly to the
complication. I can see that having all that
structure up in the wind could be a problem. As one
learns his boat possibly he could predict when to
leave it at home. For shure on race day! I certainly
would like the shade option. Light air with tip out
side windows would truly be a different experience.
Cold weather with windows shut would extend the
season. A place to sleep with the bugs sealed out is
a plus. I guess it depends on what you want to do an
a particular day.
Don't seem to be able to squeeze any stories out of
anybody about the boat though. I need to build it and
make some I guess!
Gene T.
--- Justin Meddock <jmeddock@...> wrote:
It would seem that making that top removable, like a
camper top on a pickup would not add greatly to the
complication. I can see that having all that
structure up in the wind could be a problem. As one
learns his boat possibly he could predict when to
leave it at home. For shure on race day! I certainly
would like the shade option. Light air with tip out
side windows would truly be a different experience.
Cold weather with windows shut would extend the
season. A place to sleep with the bugs sealed out is
a plus. I guess it depends on what you want to do an
a particular day.
Don't seem to be able to squeeze any stories out of
anybody about the boat though. I need to build it and
make some I guess!
Gene T.
--- Justin Meddock <jmeddock@...> wrote:
>
> > How about a birdwatcher
> > cabin like one of Bolger's other tiny boats
> > (lapstrake, don't recall the name now)?.....
>
> Supermouse from BWAOM? Anyway, PCB calls
> that one House Mouse now. I have the plans, no place
> to build a real project like that yet...
>
> Justin
> How about a birdwatcherSupermouse from BWAOM? Anyway, PCB calls
> cabin like one of Bolger's other tiny boats
> (lapstrake, don't recall the name now)?.....
that one House Mouse now. I have the plans, no place
to build a real project like that yet...
Justin
Craig,
No specific questions just a general feel for how the
boat sails. The best writeup about this boat was for
a sail with the rudder broken. Doesn't give much feel
for the real thing. Enough sail for our light
Chesapeake air? Room for a dog (or cat)? How about
all that enclosed space, is it easy to keep dry?
Concern for rot in there? Would it like a pointy clip
on nose? How about the tent, could you see it
functioning during a sail. How about a birdwatcher
cabin like one of Bolger's other tiny boats
(lapstrake, don't recall the name now)?.....
Oh, I guess there were some question lurking! I need
to pick up the plywood or MDO yet but I am close to
giving the project a go ahead.
Gene T.
Near but not close enough to the beautiful Patuxent
River for it to be of any value without a significant
drive.
--- craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
No specific questions just a general feel for how the
boat sails. The best writeup about this boat was for
a sail with the rudder broken. Doesn't give much feel
for the real thing. Enough sail for our light
Chesapeake air? Room for a dog (or cat)? How about
all that enclosed space, is it easy to keep dry?
Concern for rot in there? Would it like a pointy clip
on nose? How about the tent, could you see it
functioning during a sail. How about a birdwatcher
cabin like one of Bolger's other tiny boats
(lapstrake, don't recall the name now)?.....
Oh, I guess there were some question lurking! I need
to pick up the plywood or MDO yet but I am close to
giving the project a go ahead.
Gene T.
Near but not close enough to the beautiful Patuxent
River for it to be of any value without a significant
drive.
--- craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
> >Craig,
> >Would love to hear a little (lot) about that
> Oldshoe
> >and your sail experience.
> >
> >Gene T.
>
> What sort of questions do you have?
> --
> Craig O'Donnell
>Craig,What sort of questions do you have?
>Would love to hear a little (lot) about that Oldshoe
>and your sail experience.
>
>Gene T.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
Craig,
Would love to hear a little (lot) about that Oldshoe
and your sail experience.
Gene T.
--- craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
Would love to hear a little (lot) about that Oldshoe
and your sail experience.
Gene T.
--- craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
> I've sailed
> an oldshoe with a
> carbon reinforced half wishbone. There was bending.
> --
> Craig O'Donnell
> Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
I'd stick with what is spec'd. Stiffness drops off fast when you shave the
size of spars under say 2.5 or 3 inches. I've sailed an oldshoe with a
carbon reinforced half wishbone. There was bending.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
size of spars under say 2.5 or 3 inches. I've sailed an oldshoe with a
carbon reinforced half wishbone. There was bending.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
If your wood is a little heavier than the wood specified, and there are
no knots in bad places or wavy grain, it ought to be ok. My very quick
calculations say the new size should be about 80% as strong, and more
than 70% as stiff. It won't take that much in improvements to the wood
to make up the differences. Perhaps at the time he drew the design,
2X2's were 1 5/8"?
Brick uses same size boom, which appears to be overkill. We used ours a
bit with no trouble before noticing a knot that went maybe halfway thru
in the middle.
PS I don't know what CVG fir is.
no knots in bad places or wavy grain, it ought to be ok. My very quick
calculations say the new size should be about 80% as strong, and more
than 70% as stiff. It won't take that much in improvements to the wood
to make up the differences. Perhaps at the time he drew the design,
2X2's were 1 5/8"?
Brick uses same size boom, which appears to be overkill. We used ours a
bit with no trouble before noticing a knot that went maybe halfway thru
in the middle.
PS I don't know what CVG fir is.
>Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:27:54 -0000
> From: "woofers94401" <gregoryu@...>
>Subject: Oldshoe Main Sprit Boom
>
>It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
>haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start on
>the mizzen sprit boom. I have a local supplier who carries lovely
>CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the oldshoe
>main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1 1/2 x
>1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or ripping a
>3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
>suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
>
Thanks Lincoln,
CVG = Clear Vertical Grain
CVG = Clear Vertical Grain
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> If your wood is a little heavier than the wood specified, and there
are
> no knots in bad places or wavy grain, it ought to be ok. My very
quick
> calculations say the new size should be about 80% as strong, and
more
> than 70% as stiff. It won't take that much in improvements to the
wood
> to make up the differences. Perhaps at the time he drew the design,
> 2X2's were 1 5/8"?
>
> Brick uses same size boom, which appears to be overkill. We used
ours a
> bit with no trouble before noticing a knot that went maybe halfway
thru
> in the middle.
>
> PS I don't know what CVG fir is.
>
> >Message: 13
> > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:27:54 -0000
> > From: "woofers94401" <gregoryu@p...>
> >Subject: Oldshoe Main Sprit Boom
> >
> >It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
> >haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start
on
> >the mizzen sprit boom. I have a local supplier who carries lovely
> >CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the
oldshoe
> >main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1
1/2 x
> >1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or
ripping a
> >3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
> >suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
> >
If it's a good piece of wood and it's a good price, buy it. Even if it
eventually warps, you'll almost certainly find a use for it somewhere. I
don't think being 1/8" shy of PCB's dimensions is critical in this
application. He tends to draw such things for overkill anyway.
eventually warps, you'll almost certainly find a use for it somewhere. I
don't think being 1/8" shy of PCB's dimensions is critical in this
application. He tends to draw such things for overkill anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "woofers94401" <gregoryu@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Oldshoe Main Sprit Boom
> John,
> Thanks, and maybe you can help determine if it's good. The 2x2 I
> picked out, then ripped, for the mizzen boom had very straight grain,
> no run-off at all, and when viewed from the end (I think this is how
> you do it) the grains were parallel, straight, and spaced about 1/8
> apart. Is that considered tight?
Thanks Bruce,
I guess I have started. I want to get as much done before going 3-d
as I can. Since the spars/masts are the most intimidating to me
(with the lead keel a close #2) I figured I would start there. And
yes, I'll be taking photos...
I guess I have started. I want to get as much done before going 3-d
as I can. Since the spars/masts are the most intimidating to me
(with the lead keel a close #2) I figured I would start there. And
yes, I'll be taking photos...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > woofers94401 wrote:
> > It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
> > haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start
on
> > the mizzen sprit boom.
>
> You have started! Starting is the hardest part. [We want photos!]
>
> > I have a local supplier who carries lovely
> > CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the
oldshoe
> > main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1
1/2 x
> > 1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or
ripping a
> > 3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
> > suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
>
> In my experience, straight grain matters. If you can get 'lovely
CVG'
> a 1 1/2" square will do fine. Remember, that the strength of a
sprit in
> compression comes from the middle third of the sprit [not the
ends],
> so if you *do* decide to laminate, you could add on 1/8" to the
middle 1/3
> only, or even wrap the middle 1/3 with fiberglass tape and epoxy.
>
> Also remember, that Bolger didn't design Oldshoe as a 'high stress
> pedigree racer' and that I am sure that he considered that the
> builders can and will use generic lumber yard materials and backyard
> quality workmanship when he calculated the scantlings.
John,
Thanks, and maybe you can help determine if it's good. The 2x2 I
picked out, then ripped, for the mizzen boom had very straight grain,
no run-off at all, and when viewed from the end (I think this is how
you do it) the grains were parallel, straight, and spaced about 1/8
apart. Is that considered tight?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
Thanks, and maybe you can help determine if it's good. The 2x2 I
picked out, then ripped, for the mizzen boom had very straight grain,
no run-off at all, and when viewed from the end (I think this is how
you do it) the grains were parallel, straight, and spaced about 1/8
apart. Is that considered tight?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
> The good thing about laminations is that they are usually strongerthan
> solid timber as well as being much less prone to warp. Unless the2x2s have
> very straight tight grain, I'd suggest gluing up 1x2s instead.on
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "woofers94401" <gregoryu@p...>
>
> > It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
> > haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start
> > the mizzen sprit boom. I have a local supplier who carries lovelyoldshoe
> > CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the
> > main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 11/2 x
> > 1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, orripping a
> > 3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
> > suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
> >
> woofers94401 wrote:You have started! Starting is the hardest part. [We want photos!]
> It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
> haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start on
> the mizzen sprit boom.
> I have a local supplier who carries lovelyIn my experience, straight grain matters. If you can get 'lovely CVG'
> CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the oldshoe
> main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1 1/2 x
> 1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or ripping a
> 3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
> suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
a 1 1/2" square will do fine. Remember, that the strength of a sprit in
compression comes from the middle third of the sprit [not the ends],
so if you *do* decide to laminate, you could add on 1/8" to the middle 1/3
only, or even wrap the middle 1/3 with fiberglass tape and epoxy.
Also remember, that Bolger didn't design Oldshoe as a 'high stress
pedigree racer' and that I am sure that he considered that the
builders can and will use generic lumber yard materials and backyard
quality workmanship when he calculated the scantlings.
The good thing about laminations is that they are usually stronger than
solid timber as well as being much less prone to warp. Unless the 2x2s have
very straight tight grain, I'd suggest gluing up 1x2s instead.
solid timber as well as being much less prone to warp. Unless the 2x2s have
very straight tight grain, I'd suggest gluing up 1x2s instead.
----- Original Message -----
From: "woofers94401" <gregoryu@...>
> It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
> haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start on
> the mizzen sprit boom. I have a local supplier who carries lovely
> CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the oldshoe
> main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1 1/2 x
> 1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or ripping a
> 3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
> suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
>
It appears I may be building an Oldshoe. I say maybe, because I
haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start on
the mizzen sprit boom. I have a local supplier who carries lovely
CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the oldshoe
main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1 1/2 x
1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or ripping a
3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.
haven't really started, except to collect some lumber, and start on
the mizzen sprit boom. I have a local supplier who carries lovely
CVG fir, including 2x2s at vaious lengths. The plans for the oldshoe
main sprit boom call for a 1 5/8 sqaure spar, and 2x2s net to 1 1/2 x
1 1/2 (more or less). As opposed to doing a lamination, or ripping a
3x3, do you suppose I could just use the 2x2 as is and be OK? I
suspect so, but was wondering what the collective wisdom might be.