[bolger] Heavy Weather Boats
Greg Squire (NZ) wrote
"<SNIP> There is the classic Hartley TS16, virtually unsinkable, but not
self draining. Because the design is dated good ones can be bought for
well under NZ$2,000. Anyone able to compare between it and a Micro? "
No comparison! You can actually SIT UP in the cabin of a Micro :)
Seriously, the Micro will provide for a much more comfortable, drier and
safer ride in the howling gales of Wellington than ever could a TS16.
It also has fewer rot traps and cheaper equipment, and can also be
rendered unsinkable. Bear in mind the TS16 is unsinkable because of its
propensity when driven to fall over. But, it will cost you several
thousand to build a micro whereas the TS16 is dirt cheap. Why not buy
the cheapie to sail in while building the =real= cruiser???
The MJ gives much more usable cabin and cockpit than a Farr, at the cost
of lesser windward performance. If I were on Wellington Harbour, tho',
I'd rather be in the smaller but definitely sea-capable Micro. You have
to assume weather conditions more oceanic than usually conjured up by
the word "harbour" for Wellington. I mean, even big ships blanch at
coming into Wellington, and I'm told Wellington pilots are very
religious men, or at least, pray a lot.
Tim & Flying Tadpole
"<SNIP> There is the classic Hartley TS16, virtually unsinkable, but not
self draining. Because the design is dated good ones can be bought for
well under NZ$2,000. Anyone able to compare between it and a Micro? "
No comparison! You can actually SIT UP in the cabin of a Micro :)
Seriously, the Micro will provide for a much more comfortable, drier and
safer ride in the howling gales of Wellington than ever could a TS16.
It also has fewer rot traps and cheaper equipment, and can also be
rendered unsinkable. Bear in mind the TS16 is unsinkable because of its
propensity when driven to fall over. But, it will cost you several
thousand to build a micro whereas the TS16 is dirt cheap. Why not buy
the cheapie to sail in while building the =real= cruiser???
The MJ gives much more usable cabin and cockpit than a Farr, at the cost
of lesser windward performance. If I were on Wellington Harbour, tho',
I'd rather be in the smaller but definitely sea-capable Micro. You have
to assume weather conditions more oceanic than usually conjured up by
the word "harbour" for Wellington. I mean, even big ships blanch at
coming into Wellington, and I'm told Wellington pilots are very
religious men, or at least, pray a lot.
Tim & Flying Tadpole
Ditto!
The Storm Petrel would be perfect for areas of high winds, as it is
somewhat undercanvassed.
The only one I know of is Marc Lander's 15-year-old-and-going-strong
spritsail sloop-rigged version which lives on very windy San Francisco
Bay. Marc says the boat is very dry, and he seems to me to be
something of a gung-ho sailor, as his boat has a substantially larger
rig than standard.
I've corresponded with him a couple of times via e-mail, so I'll post
his comments to the Storm Petrel folder in the vault, his sketch of his
mainsail, as well as a link to the .pdf file of Bolger's article on the
design on Chuck Merrell's Private Postings page. There are already
some pics Marc sent me in there, as well as a sketch I did of my
proposed minor mods for my <someday, sigh> boat.
Of course, it's not really a weekender, except solo, but you can think
of it as a day boat with a place to put the porta-potti, or a camp
cruiser with plenty of dry stowage.
As you might guess, I'd love one!
Matthew
P.S. I already replied to this message, but it doesn't seem to have
gone through, so apologies in advance for any mix-up.
"lincoln ross" <lincoln-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3775
The Storm Petrel would be perfect for areas of high winds, as it is
somewhat undercanvassed.
The only one I know of is Marc Lander's 15-year-old-and-going-strong
spritsail sloop-rigged version which lives on very windy San Francisco
Bay. Marc says the boat is very dry, and he seems to me to be
something of a gung-ho sailor, as his boat has a substantially larger
rig than standard.
I've corresponded with him a couple of times via e-mail, so I'll post
his comments to the Storm Petrel folder in the vault, his sketch of his
mainsail, as well as a link to the .pdf file of Bolger's article on the
design on Chuck Merrell's Private Postings page. There are already
some pics Marc sent me in there, as well as a sketch I did of my
proposed minor mods for my <someday, sigh> boat.
Of course, it's not really a weekender, except solo, but you can think
of it as a day boat with a place to put the porta-potti, or a camp
cruiser with plenty of dry stowage.
As you might guess, I'd love one!
Matthew
P.S. I already replied to this message, but it doesn't seem to have
gone through, so apologies in advance for any mix-up.
"lincoln ross" <lincoln-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3775
> Has anyone mentioned Bolger's Storm Petrel here? (not the other Storm
> Petrel). Seems made to order for a trailer boat able to handle extreme
> conditions.
I agree with you Don. Here in Dunedin it's the same. Saturday 0 - 5kt
winds on the Perikunui Inlet, while we battled to sail for the "Tee Pot
Trophy" and yesterday 40kt winds on the Dunedin harbour. They are idiot
proof ask me. Tried her in probably 40kt winds, planing downwind and
not even slowing down after reefing in a dramatic way (boom snapped in
two). Other time did a 360 with her on her side due to the only idiot
out on the harbour with clashing southerly and north-westerly fronts
causing massive whirlwinds. I must confess I upped the internal ballast
from 33pound to the max 100 as per plan. Made a huge difference. So far
I've been impressed, frights - often, uncomfortable - plenty, but never
scared that I will not make it home.
regards Paul (Hartley TS16 "Just Fun")
oin-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3781
winds on the Perikunui Inlet, while we battled to sail for the "Tee Pot
Trophy" and yesterday 40kt winds on the Dunedin harbour. They are idiot
proof ask me. Tried her in probably 40kt winds, planing downwind and
not even slowing down after reefing in a dramatic way (boom snapped in
two). Other time did a 360 with her on her side due to the only idiot
out on the harbour with clashing southerly and north-westerly fronts
causing massive whirlwinds. I must confess I upped the internal ballast
from 33pound to the max 100 as per plan. Made a huge difference. So far
I've been impressed, frights - often, uncomfortable - plenty, but never
scared that I will not make it home.
regards Paul (Hartley TS16 "Just Fun")
oin-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3781
> From: "Greg Squire" <greg@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Date sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:48:45 +1200
> Send reply to:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Heavy Weather Boats
>
> Hi Greg.
> I have sailed a Hartley 16 in the Marlborough Sounds, which you
> probably know is like Wellington one second, and a millpond the
> next.
> <<snip>> If it was me in Wellington? A $2000 ($1000us) Hartley
> on a trailer, safe and snug at home ready for the nice days!
> Regards,
> Don
>
Hi Greg,
your luck is in. In the NZ "Trade a Boat" magasine of last month page
221, is a boat that looks like a Martha Jane for sale.Looks like a
Wellington number. If your interested here are the details: Ketch 21',
on tandem trailer, glass over ply, no motor, but all sails& rigging, 4
berth, $5000 ono. Ph Paul (07)828-4971, (07) 862-6149 a/h. Perhaps you
could go for a sail in it. Let me know how it went.
You could go the route I went. Bought a Hartley TS16 for a $1000, good
motor and boat, but the trailer needed a major rebuild. $600 later I
had the trailer done and another $200 for porch paint for the deck and
other bits and pieces. When I look at the other chaps with their $10
000 + boats, I can't see how they can have more fun. I enjoyed Lake
Manapouri, Lake Ben More and Otago harbour just as much and I go solo
sailing her in Dunedin every Saturday if the weather permits(our
weather is the same as yours - 40kt winds in the harbour yesterday).
Far6000's and others don't go as often because is such an effort to get
the bigger and heavier boat to, in and out of the water. And by the way
mine's cockpit is self-drainig. It has the outboard on a ourboard
bracket and the cockpit extends right to the transom, no outboard-well
as the standard plans. This gives a big +-6vt cockpit, enough space for
5 grown-ups. The Farr6000's cockpit is more cramped. I redid the cabin
into two 6'6 bunks as I'm 6'4. We have slept 2 adults in the cabin and
two kids in the cockpit under a boom tent I made. The Farr's and others
look beautifull and they go well, but I still need to be convinced how
the $10 000 extra will give me more boating pleasure.
regards Paul(Hartley TS16 "Just Fun")
your luck is in. In the NZ "Trade a Boat" magasine of last month page
221, is a boat that looks like a Martha Jane for sale.Looks like a
Wellington number. If your interested here are the details: Ketch 21',
on tandem trailer, glass over ply, no motor, but all sails& rigging, 4
berth, $5000 ono. Ph Paul (07)828-4971, (07) 862-6149 a/h. Perhaps you
could go for a sail in it. Let me know how it went.
You could go the route I went. Bought a Hartley TS16 for a $1000, good
motor and boat, but the trailer needed a major rebuild. $600 later I
had the trailer done and another $200 for porch paint for the deck and
other bits and pieces. When I look at the other chaps with their $10
000 + boats, I can't see how they can have more fun. I enjoyed Lake
Manapouri, Lake Ben More and Otago harbour just as much and I go solo
sailing her in Dunedin every Saturday if the weather permits(our
weather is the same as yours - 40kt winds in the harbour yesterday).
Far6000's and others don't go as often because is such an effort to get
the bigger and heavier boat to, in and out of the water. And by the way
mine's cockpit is self-drainig. It has the outboard on a ourboard
bracket and the cockpit extends right to the transom, no outboard-well
as the standard plans. This gives a big +-6vt cockpit, enough space for
5 grown-ups. The Farr6000's cockpit is more cramped. I redid the cabin
into two 6'6 bunks as I'm 6'4. We have slept 2 adults in the cabin and
two kids in the cockpit under a boom tent I made. The Farr's and others
look beautifull and they go well, but I still need to be convinced how
the $10 000 extra will give me more boating pleasure.
regards Paul(Hartley TS16 "Just Fun")
From: "Greg Squire" <greg@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Date sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:48:45 +1200
Send reply to:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Heavy Weather Boats
Hi Greg.
I have sailed a Hartley 16 in the Marlborough Sounds, which you
probably know is like Wellington one second, and a millpond the
next.
I think it depends what you intend to do in Wellington. I raced
there for many years. If you put your flat boat on a mooring in
Wellington, it should only be in a very sheltered part of Evans Bay
(if you can find such a place), or similar. Wellington winds and
seas would be lethal......... seas are very hard on a Micro on an
exposed mooring, and I suspect a Martha Jane would not be any
different. My Micro is bad enough in Little Shoal Bay in Auckland.
Sailing her would be the lesser of your problems!
Funny, I have recently thought I would have been better off with a
Hartley16, it really is a design classic, and with some internal
ballast, a very good boat, similar to a Chebacco, and ideal for
messing about.
Lets face it, in Wellington you wouldn't cruise anywhere and sleep
overnight. If it was me in Wellington? A $2000 ($1000us) Hartley
on a trailer, safe and snug at home ready for the nice days!
Regards,
Don
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Date sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:48:45 +1200
Send reply to:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Heavy Weather Boats
Hi Greg.
I have sailed a Hartley 16 in the Marlborough Sounds, which you
probably know is like Wellington one second, and a millpond the
next.
I think it depends what you intend to do in Wellington. I raced
there for many years. If you put your flat boat on a mooring in
Wellington, it should only be in a very sheltered part of Evans Bay
(if you can find such a place), or similar. Wellington winds and
seas would be lethal......... seas are very hard on a Micro on an
exposed mooring, and I suspect a Martha Jane would not be any
different. My Micro is bad enough in Little Shoal Bay in Auckland.
Sailing her would be the lesser of your problems!
Funny, I have recently thought I would have been better off with a
Hartley16, it really is a design classic, and with some internal
ballast, a very good boat, similar to a Chebacco, and ideal for
messing about.
Lets face it, in Wellington you wouldn't cruise anywhere and sleep
overnight. If it was me in Wellington? A $2000 ($1000us) Hartley
on a trailer, safe and snug at home ready for the nice days!
Regards,
Don
> Hi Bolger fans.option would be to buy one of the popular local designs. There is the classic Hartley TS16, virtually unsinkable, but not self draining. Because the design is dated good ones can be bought for well under NZ$2,000. Anyone able to compare between it and a Micro?
> New member here from Wellington NZ. A bit of an armchair sailor although I've built kayaks to plans from Chesapeake Light Craft. I'd like to get out there on a sailing boat but in Wellington it can be a bit of an extreme sport; LOTS of wind here. I'd like a trailer sailor and of course the easy
> Or between a Farr 6000 (Production fibreglass boat, average 2nd hand price NZ$12,000) and , say, a Martha Jane?
> Thanks in advance
> Greg Squire
>
>
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Has anyone mentioned Bolger's Storm Petrel here? (not the other Storm
Petrel). Seems made to order for a trailer boat able to handle extreme
conditions.
"greg squire" <gre-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3767
can be a bit of an extreme sport; LOTS of wind here. snip
Petrel). Seems made to order for a trailer boat able to handle extreme
conditions.
"greg squire" <gre-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3767
> Hi Bolger fans.snip I'd like to get out there on a sailing boat but in Wellington it
can be a bit of an extreme sport; LOTS of wind here. snip
> Thanks in advance
> Greg Squire
>
Greg,
Congratulations to all NZ on the cup win. My former boat, a
Herreshoff Goldeneye, sounds like it would be a perfect fit. It was
self - bailing, could sail a small family, had a small cuddy with two
small berths for 2 small people, and sailed like a church in the heavy
stuff. Some idiot actually sailed from New England to Ireland in one.
The bad news is that they are hard to find used as their owners do not
part with them readily, and that they are about $18,000 US new. The
Manufacturer is Cape Cod Shipbuilding. They are fabulous builders with
a great reputation. I unfortunately sold her to finance repair of a
leaky septic system, ouch!
I am building Micro as a suitable replacement due to cost, shoal
draft ability, and ease of sail handling. Go read the thread on Martha
Jane for info on the heavy weather ability of MJ. Whatever you do,
stick to the design plans or be aware of what your modifications are
doing to the CG / balance of the boat in the event of capsize.
Good Luck,
David Jost "15F in Boston today, brrr. . . . "
"greg squire" <gre-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3767
like to get out there on a sailing boat but in Wellington it can be a
bit of an extreme sport; LOTS of wind here. I'd like a trailer sailor
and of course the easy option would be to buy one of the popular local
designs. There is the classic Hartley TS16, virtually unsinkable, but
not self draining. Because the design is dated good ones can be bought
for well under NZ$2,000. Anyone able to compare between it and a Micro?
Congratulations to all NZ on the cup win. My former boat, a
Herreshoff Goldeneye, sounds like it would be a perfect fit. It was
self - bailing, could sail a small family, had a small cuddy with two
small berths for 2 small people, and sailed like a church in the heavy
stuff. Some idiot actually sailed from New England to Ireland in one.
The bad news is that they are hard to find used as their owners do not
part with them readily, and that they are about $18,000 US new. The
Manufacturer is Cape Cod Shipbuilding. They are fabulous builders with
a great reputation. I unfortunately sold her to finance repair of a
leaky septic system, ouch!
I am building Micro as a suitable replacement due to cost, shoal
draft ability, and ease of sail handling. Go read the thread on Martha
Jane for info on the heavy weather ability of MJ. Whatever you do,
stick to the design plans or be aware of what your modifications are
doing to the CG / balance of the boat in the event of capsize.
Good Luck,
David Jost "15F in Boston today, brrr. . . . "
"greg squire" <gre-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3767
> Hi Bolger fans.although I've built kayaks to plans from Chesapeake Light Craft. I'd
> New member here from Wellington NZ. A bit of an armchair sailor
like to get out there on a sailing boat but in Wellington it can be a
bit of an extreme sport; LOTS of wind here. I'd like a trailer sailor
and of course the easy option would be to buy one of the popular local
designs. There is the classic Hartley TS16, virtually unsinkable, but
not self draining. Because the design is dated good ones can be bought
for well under NZ$2,000. Anyone able to compare between it and a Micro?
> Or between a Farr 6000 (Production fibreglass boat, average 2nd handprice NZ$12,000) and , say, a Martha Jane?
> Thanks in advance
> Greg Squire
>
Hi Bolger fans.
New member here from Wellington NZ. A bit of an armchair sailor although
I've built kayaks to plans from Chesapeake Light Craft. I'd like to get out
there on a sailing boat but in Wellington it can be a bit of an extreme sport;
LOTS of wind here. I'd like a trailer sailor and of course the easy option would
be to buy one of the popular local designs. There is the classic Hartley TS16,
virtually unsinkable, but not self draining. Because the design is dated good
ones can be bought for well under NZ$2,000. Anyone able to compare between it
and a Micro?
Or between a Farr 6000 (Production fibreglass boat, average 2nd hand price
NZ$12,000) and , say, a Martha Jane?
Thanks in advance
Greg Squire