Re: advance sharpie and long micro motion?
--- In bolger:
I would love to sail the AS19 in the ocean but I'm afraid that her
Thanks for the ideas. I've been fighting much delamination and rot
on this boat. All of the scarfs in the bottom are swollen and soft,
so there is much work to do on this hull.
I do want a longer boat, but I worry that the BWII might not have
the "volume" that I'm accustomed to. The square ends of the AS19
provide plenty of bouyancy so you can stand on her bow or stern with
out adversely affecting trim. My wife likes sitting forward in the
bow well with her legs dragging in the sea. Many smiles and nods
are given by bystanders when we beach and merely step off the boat,
like Gen. MacArthur ;)
I like the trouble free design of Bolger's leaboards. Dragging them
on the bottom presents no danger of malfunction. Additionally, they
provide fantastic protection to the hull when rafted or tied to a
pier.
Maybe I'm describing a new cartoon - an AS24 Bird Watcher!
Thanks,
Cabbie
I would love to sail the AS19 in the ocean but I'm afraid that her
> bottom is not sound enough to risk such exposure.Gentlemen,
Thanks for the ideas. I've been fighting much delamination and rot
on this boat. All of the scarfs in the bottom are swollen and soft,
so there is much work to do on this hull.
I do want a longer boat, but I worry that the BWII might not have
the "volume" that I'm accustomed to. The square ends of the AS19
provide plenty of bouyancy so you can stand on her bow or stern with
out adversely affecting trim. My wife likes sitting forward in the
bow well with her legs dragging in the sea. Many smiles and nods
are given by bystanders when we beach and merely step off the boat,
like Gen. MacArthur ;)
I like the trouble free design of Bolger's leaboards. Dragging them
on the bottom presents no danger of malfunction. Additionally, they
provide fantastic protection to the hull when rafted or tied to a
pier.
Maybe I'm describing a new cartoon - an AS24 Bird Watcher!
Thanks,
Cabbie
> Bill Paxton wrote:I like Michalak's Jewelbox.
> Jim Michalak designed a "birdwatcher" type boat based on the AS-19
> hull. He calles it Jewelbox
One big difference between Jewelbox and the AS-19
is that the AS-19 has 500 pounds of lead ballast.
>Jim Michalak designed a "birdwatcher" type boat based on the AS-19
> I can see no reason not to cut out more of your
> deck and fit a slot top cabin on your AS-19
> hull, which would then become a "hybrid"
> between a Birdwatcher and a AS-19.
hull. He calles it Jewelbox, and it might provide some ideas. You
can view Jewelbox at
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
Bill
> cabbie_caesar wrote:That would be this boat then, cool.
> Don't be impressed, I bought the boat from Mike S. in North
> Carolina.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
> I was going to build a removable bow door for her,That would be an easy modification to make.
> I'm considering building a BWII.I have thought of building an AS-19 versus a
>, but now my new priority of having a
> usable shelter while sailing may make the
> trade offs acceptable.
Birdwatcher too, though for my uses I would
want a more usable cabin that the smaller
doghouse of a standard AS-19.
I can see no reason not to cut out more of your
deck and fit a slot top cabin on your AS-19
hull, which would then become a "hybrid"
between a Birdwatcher and a AS-19.
Something like:
http://hallman.org/bolger/AS19/as19nav.gif
That modification would be much faster
than building a Birdwatcher II from scratch
and would be a more manageable 19 foot
trailer length instead of the BWII 24 feet.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Don't be impressed, I bought the boat from Mike S. in North
Carolina. Yes, I did charter a boat from Shoal Water. Fantastic!
I would love to sail the AS19 in the ocean but I'm afraid that her
bottom is not sound enough to risk such exposure. However, I do get
heavy chop on the east end of Great South Bay. Waves build over the
25 mile fetch and reach three feet or so, with a wave length
approaching 15 or 18 feet. It can be severe enough that the open
bow will scoop green water onto the main deck. I've got a tree
trunk for a mast and I probably don't reef when I should. After all
it is exciting to press on through the spray. An ocean swell, with
prudent handling, would not present any problems for this design.
I was going to build a removable bow door for her, but now with my
second child on the way I'm considering building a BWII. I feel
that the square boats have many advantages over the BWII, but now my
new priority of having a usable shelter while sailing may make the
trade offs acceptable.
Tell me what your intersts are. I may have a picture I could post -
I can't believe how hard it is to get someone to take a photo for me.
Cabbie
> cabbie_caesar wrote:Hello Bruce,
> > have sailed a Black Skimmer, over a weeks time in
> > the keys,
>
> Was that from that (now defunct?) "Key Largo Shoal
> Water Cruises" written up in the Small Boat Journal
> 15 years back?
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
>
> > Unfortunately, my AS19 is too short for my local
> > conditions.
>
> You own an AS19? I am impressed, and would love
> to see pictures. When you describe you 'local
> conditions' what do you mean? Ocean swell? Chop?
Don't be impressed, I bought the boat from Mike S. in North
Carolina. Yes, I did charter a boat from Shoal Water. Fantastic!
I would love to sail the AS19 in the ocean but I'm afraid that her
bottom is not sound enough to risk such exposure. However, I do get
heavy chop on the east end of Great South Bay. Waves build over the
25 mile fetch and reach three feet or so, with a wave length
approaching 15 or 18 feet. It can be severe enough that the open
bow will scoop green water onto the main deck. I've got a tree
trunk for a mast and I probably don't reef when I should. After all
it is exciting to press on through the spray. An ocean swell, with
prudent handling, would not present any problems for this design.
I was going to build a removable bow door for her, but now with my
second child on the way I'm considering building a BWII. I feel
that the square boats have many advantages over the BWII, but now my
new priority of having a usable shelter while sailing may make the
trade offs acceptable.
Tell me what your intersts are. I may have a picture I could post -
I can't believe how hard it is to get someone to take a photo for me.
Cabbie
cabbie_caesar wrote:
Water Cruises" written up in the Small Boat Journal
15 years back?
http://hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
to see pictures. When you describe you 'local
conditions' what do you mean? Ocean swell? Chop?
> have sailed a Black Skimmer, over a weeks time inWas that from that (now defunct?) "Key Largo Shoal
> the keys,
Water Cruises" written up in the Small Boat Journal
15 years back?
http://hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
> Unfortunately, my AS19 is too short for my localYou own an AS19? I am impressed, and would love
> conditions.
to see pictures. When you describe you 'local
conditions' what do you mean? Ocean swell? Chop?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Based soley on my experience and observations,it matters little
whether the ballast is inside or outside,especially when one
considers that Bolger optimized the design to work with a particular
ballast arrangement.Bolger Boxes ride the waves with a grace and
class all out of proportion to their otherwise simple looks.All
things being equal,about the only so called limitation would be
motoring against waves......and even then it is more the limits of
the crew then the boat itself which may soon have you wishing a)the
waves were coming from another direction b) that the bottom wasn't
so damned flat or c)that there was more beer in the cooler :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,dreaming of a cold one while the temperature hovers
around 30 C outside the nuthouse..............
wrote:
> Mostly interested in how a long micro with external ballast ridesostar
> versus an internally ballasted as-29. While i'm at would PB's
> 30 with the deep ballasted fin be muuuch smoother than theJason,
> internally ballasted as29.
>
> The bolger boxes are beautifully simple just wondering where the
> limitations are.
>
> thanks,
> jason
Based soley on my experience and observations,it matters little
whether the ballast is inside or outside,especially when one
considers that Bolger optimized the design to work with a particular
ballast arrangement.Bolger Boxes ride the waves with a grace and
class all out of proportion to their otherwise simple looks.All
things being equal,about the only so called limitation would be
motoring against waves......and even then it is more the limits of
the crew then the boat itself which may soon have you wishing a)the
waves were coming from another direction b) that the bottom wasn't
so damned flat or c)that there was more beer in the cooler :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,dreaming of a cold one while the temperature hovers
around 30 C outside the nuthouse..............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
wrote:
I own an AS19 and have sailed a Black Skimmer, over a weeks time in
the keys, and the motion of both boats is better than most. This
observation is only relevant while under sail. The Skimmer is
the "livelier" of the two. It accelerates smartly under freshing
breeze or when lifted from the stern by a following sea - a
satisfying experience indeed. The Skimmer's hull is long enough to
bridge almost all chop and sails so smoothly, only the occasional
thump on the turned up bottom intrudes. The magic of the sharpie's
form is that it presents a deep vee shape to part the waves while
heeling under the press of her sails. Not many "modern" forms work
in this way. Unfortunately, my AS19 is too short for my local
conditions. My boat occasionally gets lost in the trough and the
open bow will scoop enough water to momentarily stop forward
progress, but it is so well balanced that it presses on with out
falling off - No real drama.
Thanks,
Cabbie
wrote:
> > How do the ballasted sharpiesque bolger boxes ride? Is themotion
> > going to beat you to death or do they gently wallow without muchHello,
> > fanfare.
>
> Interesting question.
>
I own an AS19 and have sailed a Black Skimmer, over a weeks time in
the keys, and the motion of both boats is better than most. This
observation is only relevant while under sail. The Skimmer is
the "livelier" of the two. It accelerates smartly under freshing
breeze or when lifted from the stern by a following sea - a
satisfying experience indeed. The Skimmer's hull is long enough to
bridge almost all chop and sails so smoothly, only the occasional
thump on the turned up bottom intrudes. The magic of the sharpie's
form is that it presents a deep vee shape to part the waves while
heeling under the press of her sails. Not many "modern" forms work
in this way. Unfortunately, my AS19 is too short for my local
conditions. My boat occasionally gets lost in the trough and the
open bow will scoop enough water to momentarily stop forward
progress, but it is so well balanced that it presses on with out
falling off - No real drama.
Thanks,
Cabbie
> How do the ballasted sharpiesque bolger boxes ride? Is the motionInteresting question.
> going to beat you to death or do they gently wallow without much
> fanfare.
The only relevant comment that I know of in the PCB canon is in the
writeup about Rondo II (or III?). PCB remarks that Rondo feels
ponderous while Black Gauntlet feels lively. He doesn't say so
explicitly, but presumeably the it's because Rondo is long and
light, without concentrated metal ballast. So, she lies on the
surface and has a large radius of gyration
Gauntlet, on the other had, has a lot of ballast concentrated
midships which makes the radius of gyration less.
Neither boat is similar enough to LM and AS-29 to draw a strict
comparison. I've never seen any written comments about either that
suggested they had an uncomfortable motion. I suspect that the
subjective experience from up on top of the AS-29 is much different
that that down in the low cockpit LM.
Peter
I've been reading some design books lately and it's got me thinking
about motion.
Most of my experiene in ballasted boats has been in an eddy and duff
stonehorse, small but heavy displacement full keeler and a dough
dish herrshoffesque glass version of bolger's 12.5....once again
heavily ballasted full keeler.
How do the ballasted sharpiesque bolger boxes ride? Is the motion
going to beat you to death or do they gently wallow without much
fanfare.
Mostly interested in how a long micro with external ballast rides
versus an internally ballasted as-29. While i'm at would PB's ostar
30 with the deep ballasted fin be muuuch smoother than the
internally ballasted as29.
The bolger boxes are beautifully simple just wondering where the
limitations are.
thanks,
jason
about motion.
Most of my experiene in ballasted boats has been in an eddy and duff
stonehorse, small but heavy displacement full keeler and a dough
dish herrshoffesque glass version of bolger's 12.5....once again
heavily ballasted full keeler.
How do the ballasted sharpiesque bolger boxes ride? Is the motion
going to beat you to death or do they gently wallow without much
fanfare.
Mostly interested in how a long micro with external ballast rides
versus an internally ballasted as-29. While i'm at would PB's ostar
30 with the deep ballasted fin be muuuch smoother than the
internally ballasted as29.
The bolger boxes are beautifully simple just wondering where the
limitations are.
thanks,
jason