Re: How 'bout a transom on the BW as in #640?
I can't find it now, but somewhere PCB writes about someone admiring
Herreshoff's H28 but saying that for his purpose, he'd want a few
changes: maybe slightly more freeboard, a centreline propellor and a
jib that goes right up to the masthead. Bolger proposes a few more
changes including re-arranging the accommodation and increasing the
draft. I'm doing this from a rather vague memory, so the details are
only approximate, but the point of the story is that once you start
changing a design, it's hard to know where to stop and it's not very
long before you've changed someone else's work of art into a
completely different creature that is no longer a work of art and may
not be a practical proposition either.
On the other hand it's nice to speculate about the effect of a few
minor changes to a design, if only as a way of understanding the
qualities of the original.
Howard
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
and the transom well clear of the water. PB&F has drawn a variation
on the Birdwatcher theme using a sharpie hull in the form of Camper.
Bolger's writings on BW indicate thet the boat is to be trimmed so
that the foot of the stem is 2 inches (I have no idea of how this
would be measured) and the stern post is supposed to be down in the
water. Bolger has followed this formula on Burgundy, Teal and
several other designs. If you were going to add a transom to BW, I
believe it would be necessary to make the bottom wider toward the
back of the boat and increase the rocker--These are changes which I
would not attempt.
Herreshoff's H28 but saying that for his purpose, he'd want a few
changes: maybe slightly more freeboard, a centreline propellor and a
jib that goes right up to the masthead. Bolger proposes a few more
changes including re-arranging the accommodation and increasing the
draft. I'm doing this from a rather vague memory, so the details are
only approximate, but the point of the story is that once you start
changing a design, it's hard to know where to stop and it's not very
long before you've changed someone else's work of art into a
completely different creature that is no longer a work of art and may
not be a practical proposition either.
On the other hand it's nice to speculate about the effect of a few
minor changes to a design, if only as a way of understanding the
qualities of the original.
Howard
<John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
> There is a lot that I don't understand, but a traditional sharpiehull is supposed to have the foot of the stem just kissing the water
and the transom well clear of the water. PB&F has drawn a variation
on the Birdwatcher theme using a sharpie hull in the form of Camper.
Bolger's writings on BW indicate thet the boat is to be trimmed so
that the foot of the stem is 2 inches (I have no idea of how this
would be measured) and the stern post is supposed to be down in the
water. Bolger has followed this formula on Burgundy, Teal and
several other designs. If you were going to add a transom to BW, I
believe it would be necessary to make the bottom wider toward the
back of the boat and increase the rocker--These are changes which I
would not attempt.
>
> John T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce Hallman
> Not to mention, that the tilt up rudder is needed to
> reduce resistance while rowing. A stern mounted
> outboard motor, on centerline, would not allow a
> flip up rudder.
There is a lot that I don't understand, but a traditional sharpie hull is supposed to have the foot of the stem just kissing the water and the transom well clear of the water. PB&F has drawn a variation on the Birdwatcher theme using a sharpie hull in the form of Camper. Bolger's writings on BW indicate thet the boat is to be trimmed so that the foot of the stem is 2 inches (I have no idea of how this would be measured) and the stern post is supposed to be down in the water. Bolger has followed this formula on Burgundy, Teal and several other designs. If you were going to add a transom to BW, I believe it would be necessary to make the bottom wider toward the back of the boat and increase the rocker--These are changes which I would not attempt.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: How 'bout a transom on the BW as in #640?
Not to mention, that the tilt up rudder is needed to
reduce resistance while rowing. A stern mounted
outboard motor, on centerline, would not allow a
flip up rudder.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not to mention, that the tilt up rudder is needed to
reduce resistance while rowing. A stern mounted
outboard motor, on centerline, would not allow a
flip up rudder.
reduce resistance while rowing. A stern mounted
outboard motor, on centerline, would not allow a
flip up rudder.
I suspect that the pointy stern has slightly less hydraulic
resistance than a squared off transom, and as Birdwatcher
is a rather large row boat after all, every bit of streamlining
matters. Here is a link to the orginal SBJ article by Bolger
about Birdwatcher.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Birdwatcher/
resistance than a squared off transom, and as Birdwatcher
is a rather large row boat after all, every bit of streamlining
matters. Here is a link to the orginal SBJ article by Bolger
about Birdwatcher.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Birdwatcher/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, John Bell <smallboatdesigner@m...>
wrote:
never been impressed with the line drawings of the BW. However, after
seeing the article and pictures in the most recent WB, it certainly
is a looker.
Dennis
wrote:
> You have to remember the crucible in which BW was fired. Theoriginal
> request was to make a home buildable version of the oar-auxilarytherefore
> Dovekie. Dovkie was never intended to carry an engine, and
> neither was BW.Your argument is a good one, John. Thanks. I must say, that I have
never been impressed with the line drawings of the BW. However, after
seeing the article and pictures in the most recent WB, it certainly
is a looker.
Dennis
>
>
>
>
You have to remember the crucible in which BW was fired. The original
request was to make a home buildable version of the oar-auxilary
Dovekie. Dovkie was never intended to carry an engine, and therefore
neither was BW.
There's also the evolution factor. This is something I experience with
my own boat designing. Many of my boats evolve and are refined by making
changes to a single theme. And for me at least, I'm often so enamored of
that a particular design idea that I'll design a bunch of variations on
that theme. PCB has a number of successful designs based on a simple
double ended sharpie shape such as Teal, Windsprint, Single Handed
Schooner. My guess is that he was in his "straight sided double ended
sharpie" period when he drew BW. If you look closely at his work, you
too will pick out a number of themes he uses over and over:
Gypsy looks like Diablo looks like Samuel Clyde looks like OSTAR Racer
looks Chebacco looks like Seabird 86.
Micro, Long Micro, AS19, As29, Loose Moose II, Jessie Cooper.
Bee, Hawkeye, Microtrawler, Champlain, Retreiver, WIndermere.
Sneakeasy, Tennessee, Idaho, Dakota, Minnesota....
Bright Thread, Moccasin, Barn Owl...
I could go on, but you get the picture.
Dennis wrote:
request was to make a home buildable version of the oar-auxilary
Dovekie. Dovkie was never intended to carry an engine, and therefore
neither was BW.
There's also the evolution factor. This is something I experience with
my own boat designing. Many of my boats evolve and are refined by making
changes to a single theme. And for me at least, I'm often so enamored of
that a particular design idea that I'll design a bunch of variations on
that theme. PCB has a number of successful designs based on a simple
double ended sharpie shape such as Teal, Windsprint, Single Handed
Schooner. My guess is that he was in his "straight sided double ended
sharpie" period when he drew BW. If you look closely at his work, you
too will pick out a number of themes he uses over and over:
Gypsy looks like Diablo looks like Samuel Clyde looks like OSTAR Racer
looks Chebacco looks like Seabird 86.
Micro, Long Micro, AS19, As29, Loose Moose II, Jessie Cooper.
Bee, Hawkeye, Microtrawler, Champlain, Retreiver, WIndermere.
Sneakeasy, Tennessee, Idaho, Dakota, Minnesota....
Bright Thread, Moccasin, Barn Owl...
I could go on, but you get the picture.
Dennis wrote:
>It seems to me that the solutions to the complex problems of the
>steering linkage on the BW -- as well as motor mounting problems --
>could be resolved by giving the boat a transom. Why go through the
>trouble and complexity of the present set up? Do you think it is
>something Bolger considered before? If so, anyone know why he
>rejected that possibility?
>
>Dennis
>
>
It seems to me that the solutions to the complex problems of the
steering linkage on the BW -- as well as motor mounting problems --
could be resolved by giving the boat a transom. Why go through the
trouble and complexity of the present set up? Do you think it is
something Bolger considered before? If so, anyone know why he
rejected that possibility?
Dennis
steering linkage on the BW -- as well as motor mounting problems --
could be resolved by giving the boat a transom. Why go through the
trouble and complexity of the present set up? Do you think it is
something Bolger considered before? If so, anyone know why he
rejected that possibility?
Dennis