Re: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like birdwatcher
Rick,
Thanks for the feedback. JB would be a lot easier to build than scram
pram, I'll have to give it some more thought. In terms of multi-chine
vs. not, I don't have any direct experience as my sailing has been
limited to glass daysailers and hobies.
Bill
Rick Bedard wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. JB would be a lot easier to build than scram
pram, I'll have to give it some more thought. In terms of multi-chine
vs. not, I don't have any direct experience as my sailing has been
limited to glass daysailers and hobies.
Bill
Rick Bedard wrote:
>
>Having sailed and having various guests aboard for a couple years now I can say stability is never an issue. I've sailed my boat nearly empty solo daysailing, and at the other extreme with my kid and with food, water and camping gear for four people for three nights, (including enough oak firewood for a beach bonfire/barbque) see Lake Mead photos.... Once daysailing I had three adults, two kids and two large dogs, no one co-operated by sitting or leaning the helpful way, overloaded and crowded, elbows and legs everywhere, but we had a fun sail in 15-18 knots wind without any worry.
>
>Nothing happens when the boat is forced over... other than anything laying around slides to the leeward chine. Ease the sheet, or push down the helm, or when the gust passes and you are sailing along upright... I've never shipped water.
>
>
>
My only experience with surf was taking the Sunfish out thru waist high
breakers one time -- iffy but no harm done. The only lessons learned were
that 1) One can't search any effective area with a HOE of 3' and 2) A 14'
boat is VERY small when you get out to where the people on shore look like
ants. (One of the tow planes lost his banner and wanted help searching for
it.)
What about having a kedge anchor off-shore to keep the stern where it should
be? Seems like the LSTs did that when landing troops.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
breakers one time -- iffy but no harm done. The only lessons learned were
that 1) One can't search any effective area with a HOE of 3' and 2) A 14'
boat is VERY small when you get out to where the people on shore look like
ants. (One of the tow planes lost his banner and wanted help searching for
it.)
What about having a kedge anchor off-shore to keep the stern where it should
be? Seems like the LSTs did that when landing troops.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ryan" <david@...>
> Don't be discouraged!
>
> The Birdwatcher could be a great choice for what you have in mind; you
> just have to be aware of it's limitations, and the limitations of any
> boat you might end up using.
>
> Also remember there's a big difference between a breaking wave and a
> swell. Once you get past the impact zone (which is a fairly narrow band
> for any given wave size) you'll be out in the swell, bobbing up and
> down happily. Conversely, when you're coming back in once you get past
> the impact zone you should be able to keep control of even a fairly
> large boat as long as you keep the bow/strern into the rolling
> whitewater.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
power sharpies? They offer real creature comforts,draw less then a
foot and in most cases have their bows clear of the water.Perfect
for beaching :-) Beyond that,they also cruise along with miserly gas
consumption.In areas with any tidal range,these boats also come with
their own dinghy so one may more fully enjoy the boating experience
with new found skills in rowing and anchoring.
A real bonus is that despite travelling at sailing speed or a wee
bit more,one never has to miss a day on the water for lack of wind:-)
Anyhow,just something to further consider in the "beach cruiser"
discussion.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who just had a VERY satisfying day at the boat shop
with a PERFECT dry fit of the hull/side panels and now has to take
it all down for some "hollowing" followed by epoxy and re-installing
the panels..........boy is she ever BIG inside!!!!
> Live-a-board, and 'beach cruiser' mightHey!... what about Champlain or Windermere or any of the other
> be mutually exclusive.
power sharpies? They offer real creature comforts,draw less then a
foot and in most cases have their bows clear of the water.Perfect
for beaching :-) Beyond that,they also cruise along with miserly gas
consumption.In areas with any tidal range,these boats also come with
their own dinghy so one may more fully enjoy the boating experience
with new found skills in rowing and anchoring.
A real bonus is that despite travelling at sailing speed or a wee
bit more,one never has to miss a day on the water for lack of wind:-)
Anyhow,just something to further consider in the "beach cruiser"
discussion.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who just had a VERY satisfying day at the boat shop
with a PERFECT dry fit of the hull/side panels and now has to take
it all down for some "hollowing" followed by epoxy and re-installing
the panels..........boy is she ever BIG inside!!!!
All this talk about riding a wave in through the surf
got me thinking. If the stern / rudder are in the
following breaking wave then at least some of the
water is flowing with the boat, pushing it. Water
flowing in the wrong direction would reverse the
rudder response and at least cancel out the effect of
moving forward through the water. The boat easily
broaches due to total loss of rudder control. Now if
the rudder was at the front, the part of the boat
still moving through the water then there would be a
chance of stearing. Bolger has at least one design
with the rudder in the front but certainly not for
this reason!
Gene T.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
got me thinking. If the stern / rudder are in the
following breaking wave then at least some of the
water is flowing with the boat, pushing it. Water
flowing in the wrong direction would reverse the
rudder response and at least cancel out the effect of
moving forward through the water. The boat easily
broaches due to total loss of rudder control. Now if
the rudder was at the front, the part of the boat
still moving through the water then there would be a
chance of stearing. Bolger has at least one design
with the rudder in the front but certainly not for
this reason!
Gene T.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> shape of the hull and the skeg seem
> that she could surf down the face of
> a breaking wave without digging in her
> bow and broaching. She has lots of
>
David Romasco wrote:
"drinkable liquid ballast" (lets not start another maudite thread?)
would be to have two of those flexible water bags in each tank. You
start off with one full of fresh water and the other empty. As you
drink the fresh water you fill the other with seawater.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> The bilge tanks present two issues: if you drain them to beachdrinking
> the boat, there goes your drinking water; and then, if it IS your
> water, you're drinking your ballast as you go....Don't know about beaching, but I reckon the solution to the
"drinkable liquid ballast" (lets not start another maudite thread?)
would be to have two of those flexible water bags in each tank. You
start off with one full of fresh water and the other empty. As you
drink the fresh water you fill the other with seawater.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
It'd have to be a sub-compact
Rick
Justin Meddock <jmeddock@...> wrote:
What if a friend wanted to build Sleeper?
Lock him in the trunk of a car? ;-)
Justin
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Rick
Justin Meddock <jmeddock@...> wrote:
What if a friend wanted to build Sleeper?
Lock him in the trunk of a car? ;-)
Justin
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bill@...wrote:
Definitely works on the central Florida gulf coast. Tarpon Springs south.
can't speak about North of there, do know that they barrier islands end
just North of Tarpon springs. Panama city over to Pensocola has barrier
islands as well. Just tuck in back and beach or anchor on the flats.
One of these winters I just may make the trip that way!
Rick, which Michalak design do you have?
Jewelbox Jr.
I'm considering Scram Pram for
this area because of the multi-chine hull and the water ballast.
I actually had plans for Scram Pram but sold them once I got the JB Jr plans for sevearal reasons. Much, much better sleeping onboard JB Jr, (flat floor, no tanks or bilge chine) much faster/simpler to build, and I really wanted to test the "Birdwatcher" concept. Very pleased with the results. Lots of photos of the build in the Michalak group photo section. A bunch sailing and the big stability test photos in the Michalak_Boats_Photos_Only group, look under Jewelbox Jr, March Sail, and Lake Mead....
I really can't comment on the sailing differences between a flat bottomed and multi-chined version of the same boat, but doubt you could tell the difference unless you were match racing. Even then I feel helmsmanship and skipper experience would outweigh any hull performance difference.
Having sailed and having various guests aboard for a couple years now I can say stability is never an issue. I've sailed my boat nearly empty solo daysailing, and at the other extreme with my kid and with food, water and camping gear for four people for three nights, (including enough oak firewood for a beach bonfire/barbque) see Lake Mead photos.... Once daysailing I had three adults, two kids and two large dogs, no one co-operated by sitting or leaning the helpful way, overloaded and crowded, elbows and legs everywhere, but we had a fun sail in 15-18 knots wind without any worry.
Nothing happens when the boat is forced over... other than anything laying around slides to the leeward chine. Ease the sheet, or push down the helm, or when the gust passes and you are sailing along upright... I've never shipped water.
There is a problem some guest report.. They don't like the sensation of the boat heeling and being in a "tipping box", but they are also goosey about being in the boat even dockside, the same people can't stand to ride in the rear seat of a car...
Later,
Rick
Water
ballast is for my wife as she is a timid sailor and the more stability the
better.
Bill
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Definitely works on the central Florida gulf coast. Tarpon Springs south.
can't speak about North of there, do know that they barrier islands end
just North of Tarpon springs. Panama city over to Pensocola has barrier
islands as well. Just tuck in back and beach or anchor on the flats.
One of these winters I just may make the trip that way!
Rick, which Michalak design do you have?
Jewelbox Jr.
I'm considering Scram Pram for
this area because of the multi-chine hull and the water ballast.
I actually had plans for Scram Pram but sold them once I got the JB Jr plans for sevearal reasons. Much, much better sleeping onboard JB Jr, (flat floor, no tanks or bilge chine) much faster/simpler to build, and I really wanted to test the "Birdwatcher" concept. Very pleased with the results. Lots of photos of the build in the Michalak group photo section. A bunch sailing and the big stability test photos in the Michalak_Boats_Photos_Only group, look under Jewelbox Jr, March Sail, and Lake Mead....
I really can't comment on the sailing differences between a flat bottomed and multi-chined version of the same boat, but doubt you could tell the difference unless you were match racing. Even then I feel helmsmanship and skipper experience would outweigh any hull performance difference.
Having sailed and having various guests aboard for a couple years now I can say stability is never an issue. I've sailed my boat nearly empty solo daysailing, and at the other extreme with my kid and with food, water and camping gear for four people for three nights, (including enough oak firewood for a beach bonfire/barbque) see Lake Mead photos.... Once daysailing I had three adults, two kids and two large dogs, no one co-operated by sitting or leaning the helpful way, overloaded and crowded, elbows and legs everywhere, but we had a fun sail in 15-18 knots wind without any worry.
Nothing happens when the boat is forced over... other than anything laying around slides to the leeward chine. Ease the sheet, or push down the helm, or when the gust passes and you are sailing along upright... I've never shipped water.
There is a problem some guest report.. They don't like the sensation of the boat heeling and being in a "tipping box", but they are also goosey about being in the boat even dockside, the same people can't stand to ride in the rear seat of a car...
Later,
Rick
Water
ballast is for my wife as she is a timid sailor and the more stability the
better.
Bill
> In protected shoal waters find a flat area, run aground or anchor atBolger rules!!!
> nearly high tide and enjoy the beach when the tide goes out... No dragging
> involved. Works in the Sea of Cortez and according to Matt and Dave in the
> Bahamas... I don't know about the Gulf Coast?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>> I guess the big difference between a beach
>> cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
>> to drag the boat up and down the beach.
>>
>> Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
>
> That's it's displacement. It weighs about the same as the
> Birdwatcher. Just half the size.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
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> Bolger rules!!!
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Here's a pretty good site for beach cruising thoughts, most especially
looking through the photo galleries:
http://www.openboat.co.nz/
_____
From: Paul [mailto:kayaker37@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:36 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
looking through the photo galleries:
http://www.openboat.co.nz/
_____
From: Paul [mailto:kayaker37@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:36 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I guess the big difference between a beach
> cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
> to drag the boat up and down the beach.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Definitely works on the central Florida gulf coast. Tarpon Springs south.
can't speak about North of there, do know that they barrier islands end
just North of Tarpon springs. Panama city over to Pensocola has barrier
islands as well. Just tuck in back and beach or anchor on the flats.
Rick, which Michalak design do you have? I'm considering Scram Pram for
this area because of the multi-chine hull and the water ballast. Water
ballast is for my wife as she is a timid sailor and the more stability the
better.
Bill
can't speak about North of there, do know that they barrier islands end
just North of Tarpon springs. Panama city over to Pensocola has barrier
islands as well. Just tuck in back and beach or anchor on the flats.
Rick, which Michalak design do you have? I'm considering Scram Pram for
this area because of the multi-chine hull and the water ballast. Water
ballast is for my wife as she is a timid sailor and the more stability the
better.
Bill
> In protected shoal waters find a flat area, run aground or anchor at
> nearly high tide and enjoy the beach when the tide goes out... No dragging
> involved. Works in the Sea of Cortez and according to Matt and Dave in the
> Bahamas... I don't know about the Gulf Coast?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>> I guess the big difference between a beach
>> cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
>> to drag the boat up and down the beach.
>>
>> Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
>
> That's it's displacement. It weighs about the same as the
> Birdwatcher. Just half the size.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
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In protected shoal waters find a flat area, run aground or anchor at nearly high tide and enjoy the beach when the tide goes out... No dragging involved. Works in the Sea of Cortez and according to Matt and Dave in the Bahamas... I don't know about the Gulf Coast?
Rick
Rick
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I guess the big difference between a beach
> cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
> to drag the boat up and down the beach.
>
> Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
That's it's displacement. It weighs about the same as the
Birdwatcher. Just half the size.
Paul
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Birdwatcher - Paradox
Not comparing designs, just (my) practical use of them.
A friend of mine was hot to have me help him build a Paradox. I insisted he arrange the furniture and some boxes in his living room and stay confined in the Paradox size space for 24 hours first (he was allowed TV, radio etc and promised only to exit briefly to grab food from the fridge and to use the bathroom. He tried, and gave up after 10 hours, too many aches and pains confined like that... I'm sure some of you would not find that a problem, but it is for me. Paradox, like Birdwatcher, works beautifully when you can beach in a backwater and get out to explore. Did it myself with an undecked sharpie in the Sea of Cortez several different winters. At times I'd stay on one beach for five or six days at time, almost "beach camping" along the coast for two months at a crack. Being able to beach at a highish tide on a flat bottom hull and then explore on land without mooring - anchoring hassles sure makes the adventure fun. Re-read Laydon's and Little Cruiser's logs and stories and
you'll soon realize they did the same.
With my current beach cruiser, a Michalak "Birdwatcher" style, I have managed to stay aboard (other than a bit of swimming around the anchored boat) for a continous 5 days in the CA Delta, a place with lots of sailing water, lots of anchoring spots, but no "beachable" shore. The limiting factor was "cabin fever". Having a 15' boat that you can stand and walk around in, ( 8' x 2' "pacing room" plus the fore and aft decks) both at anchor and while sailing increases the length of time I can manage without needing dry ground... I doubt I would have lasted 24 hours in a Paradox.
Rick
Paul <kayaker37@...> wrote:
durable than a beach cruiser. The one boat I think of as a good one
man beach/coastal/short offshore passage boat is Matt Layden's
Paradox. It is not a Bolger design, but is Bolger like, in that it is
a very simple hull design, and your weight is on the bottom as
ballast (in addition to lead and water ballast). External chine logs
are developed into chine runeers as it's method of lateral
resistance. All lines lead inside, so there is no need to go on deck.
Not much more difficult to build than a Birdwatcher (which I think is
the best beach cruiser), but now we are totally enclosed. Only fits
two for a short time though.
http://home.triad.rr.com/lcruise/pictures.htm
I believe he lived aboard this for two years. Makes you want to get
out and meet people.
Paul
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not comparing designs, just (my) practical use of them.
A friend of mine was hot to have me help him build a Paradox. I insisted he arrange the furniture and some boxes in his living room and stay confined in the Paradox size space for 24 hours first (he was allowed TV, radio etc and promised only to exit briefly to grab food from the fridge and to use the bathroom. He tried, and gave up after 10 hours, too many aches and pains confined like that... I'm sure some of you would not find that a problem, but it is for me. Paradox, like Birdwatcher, works beautifully when you can beach in a backwater and get out to explore. Did it myself with an undecked sharpie in the Sea of Cortez several different winters. At times I'd stay on one beach for five or six days at time, almost "beach camping" along the coast for two months at a crack. Being able to beach at a highish tide on a flat bottom hull and then explore on land without mooring - anchoring hassles sure makes the adventure fun. Re-read Laydon's and Little Cruiser's logs and stories and
you'll soon realize they did the same.
With my current beach cruiser, a Michalak "Birdwatcher" style, I have managed to stay aboard (other than a bit of swimming around the anchored boat) for a continous 5 days in the CA Delta, a place with lots of sailing water, lots of anchoring spots, but no "beachable" shore. The limiting factor was "cabin fever". Having a 15' boat that you can stand and walk around in, ( 8' x 2' "pacing room" plus the fore and aft decks) both at anchor and while sailing increases the length of time I can manage without needing dry ground... I doubt I would have lasted 24 hours in a Paradox.
Rick
Paul <kayaker37@...> wrote:
> > I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.When I think of coastal cruiser, I think of something much more
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
durable than a beach cruiser. The one boat I think of as a good one
man beach/coastal/short offshore passage boat is Matt Layden's
Paradox. It is not a Bolger design, but is Bolger like, in that it is
a very simple hull design, and your weight is on the bottom as
ballast (in addition to lead and water ballast). External chine logs
are developed into chine runeers as it's method of lateral
resistance. All lines lead inside, so there is no need to go on deck.
Not much more difficult to build than a Birdwatcher (which I think is
the best beach cruiser), but now we are totally enclosed. Only fits
two for a short time though.
http://home.triad.rr.com/lcruise/pictures.htm
I believe he lived aboard this for two years. Makes you want to get
out and meet people.
Paul
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Ah, but it also carries ballast in built-in lead pigs and bilge tanks of
fresh water. The bilge tanks present two issues: if you drain them to beach
the boat, there goes your drinking water; and then, if it IS your drinking
water, you're drinking your ballast as you go.... It's a design that's even
more idiosyncratic than PCB's work.
_____
From: Paul [mailto:kayaker37@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:36 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
fresh water. The bilge tanks present two issues: if you drain them to beach
the boat, there goes your drinking water; and then, if it IS your drinking
water, you're drinking your ballast as you go.... It's a design that's even
more idiosyncratic than PCB's work.
_____
From: Paul [mailto:kayaker37@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:36 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I guess the big difference between a beach
> cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
> to drag the boat up and down the beach.
>
> Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
That's it's displacement. It weighs about the same as the
Birdwatcher. Just half the size.
Paul
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Birdwatcher. Just half the size.
Paul
> I guess the big difference between a beachThat's it's displacement. It weighs about the same as the
> cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
> to drag the boat up and down the beach.
>
> Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
Birdwatcher. Just half the size.
Paul
I guess the big difference between a beach
cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
to drag the boat up and down the beach.
Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
cruiser and a coastal cruiser is the ability
to drag the boat up and down the beach.
Paradox, at 1,400 lbs, is too heavy to drag.
> > I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.When I think of coastal cruiser, I think of something much more
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
durable than a beach cruiser. The one boat I think of as a good one
man beach/coastal/short offshore passage boat is Matt Layden's
Paradox. It is not a Bolger design, but is Bolger like, in that it is
a very simple hull design, and your weight is on the bottom as
ballast (in addition to lead and water ballast). External chine logs
are developed into chine runeers as it's method of lateral
resistance. All lines lead inside, so there is no need to go on deck.
Not much more difficult to build than a Birdwatcher (which I think is
the best beach cruiser), but now we are totally enclosed. Only fits
two for a short time though.
http://home.triad.rr.com/lcruise/pictures.htm
I believe he lived aboard this for two years. Makes you want to get
out and meet people.
Paul
> I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.To understand what Bolger thinks about an ideal
> Thanks,
> Robert
'beach cruiser', study his design:
"Japanese Beach Cruiser" published first in
the Small Boat Journal 68, and republished in
his book Boats With an Open Mind chapter 26.
http://hallman.org/sbj/68/
...shows some info.
Notable is that the boat can be sailed
with all the water she can hold, plus the
shape of the hull and the skeg seem
that she could surf down the face of
a breaking wave without digging in her
bow and broaching. She has lots of
watertight storage, and a sun shade
could be rigged for shelter. Plus, she
is light enough to drag up and down
the beach to accomodate the tide.
Not exactly a live-a-board though.
Live-a-board, and 'beach cruiser' might
be mutually exclusive.
Bolger has an answer for you, the Jochems schooner. It's a Black Skimmer hull with a Birdwatcher house.
Rick
Bolger's skimmer is a wonderful design in many ways, but I'm drawn
to the BWII because of the ability to sail her while sheltered - for
my kids sake.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jennings <rjennings@g...>
wrote:
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rick
Bolger's skimmer is a wonderful design in many ways, but I'm drawn
to the BWII because of the ability to sail her while sheltered - for
my kids sake.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jennings <rjennings@g...>
wrote:
>A threethat's
> foot wall does have a lot of mass and inertia for a little boat
> trying to bust through it or slide down it. Thanks everyone forcruiser?
> straightening me out. Living on and near the ocean is new to me. I
> have a lot to learn and appreciate your patience and knowledge.>
> Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal
>ahead already.
> I'll definitely buy all of the books recommended. I feel miles
>Bolger rules!!!
> Robert
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert,
I would like to wade into this discussion.
I found my self facing the very same scenario you imagine. My
girlfriend and I charted a Bolger designed Black Skimmer from Key
Largo, many years ago. We sailed Southwest through the many
islands, via Rabbit Cay, and did in fact reach the Gulf. After
turning north we tucked in behind a large Island and dryed out late
in the afternoon. I remember walking out on the oolite and
resetting the anchor and checking out the critters. Late that night
on the incomming tide a winter cold front passed through with rising
winds. I could hear the not yet visible breakers crashing in the
shallows several hundred yards to the West, and five miles of grassy
shallow to the East began to weigh heavy on my mind.
Sleep that night came fitfully, as the dawn broke I pulled the
blanket over my head in a futile attempt to wish for better
conditions. Eileen's comment on the size of the waves finally
jolted me out from the berth for a look. She was sitting in the
cockpit with her jacket on - fifteen knots of wind! Immediately in
front of us was a line of breakers extending North for miles, they
seemed to go over the horizon. Looking past the Island to the south
another line to the limits of vision, and that fifteen knot wind
blowing over the crests right at us.
Well we had a schedule to keep so I had to develop a plan of
escape. I decided that the best course of action would be to use
the boats auxiliary, a Mercury seven horse outboard, to muscle our
way out. Imagining the heaves of the breaking waves pushing the bow
off, leaving us vulnerable to capsize, I raised the mizzen and
sheeted it to keep us trimmed close to the wind. Lastly, I prepared
the Main with a preset reef ready to deploy in case of engine
failure.
With the anchor stowed we headed straight towards the breaking waves
on port tack, the motor nearly at full throttle. Eileen had a
steady hand on the tiller as the bow began to rise and fall in the
line of foam and solid water plowing into the port bow. The boat
did not falter, I then realized that we could also raise the Main
sail and bury the starboard chine to cleave the waves. That chine
did submerge by the additional power provided as I sheeted the Main,
and the motion of the boat became even more reassuring. I looked
back at my smiling shipmate. We made way through the three to four
foot breakers with out a single heave on the tiller! I even stopped
the motor and tilted it up before getting to clear water.
This boat is no Bird Watcher:
A Black Skimmer must be, at least, twice the weight.
The mizzen can keep the bow up into wind and waves.
Though not tested the Skimmer will take green water on deck.
Skimmer's leaboards are massively strong.
I'm also faced with your dilemma of trying to choose a design.
Bolger's skimmer is a wonderful design in many ways, but I'm drawn
to the BWII because of the ability to sail her while sheltered - for
my kids sake.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jennings <rjennings@g...>
wrote:
I would like to wade into this discussion.
I found my self facing the very same scenario you imagine. My
girlfriend and I charted a Bolger designed Black Skimmer from Key
Largo, many years ago. We sailed Southwest through the many
islands, via Rabbit Cay, and did in fact reach the Gulf. After
turning north we tucked in behind a large Island and dryed out late
in the afternoon. I remember walking out on the oolite and
resetting the anchor and checking out the critters. Late that night
on the incomming tide a winter cold front passed through with rising
winds. I could hear the not yet visible breakers crashing in the
shallows several hundred yards to the West, and five miles of grassy
shallow to the East began to weigh heavy on my mind.
Sleep that night came fitfully, as the dawn broke I pulled the
blanket over my head in a futile attempt to wish for better
conditions. Eileen's comment on the size of the waves finally
jolted me out from the berth for a look. She was sitting in the
cockpit with her jacket on - fifteen knots of wind! Immediately in
front of us was a line of breakers extending North for miles, they
seemed to go over the horizon. Looking past the Island to the south
another line to the limits of vision, and that fifteen knot wind
blowing over the crests right at us.
Well we had a schedule to keep so I had to develop a plan of
escape. I decided that the best course of action would be to use
the boats auxiliary, a Mercury seven horse outboard, to muscle our
way out. Imagining the heaves of the breaking waves pushing the bow
off, leaving us vulnerable to capsize, I raised the mizzen and
sheeted it to keep us trimmed close to the wind. Lastly, I prepared
the Main with a preset reef ready to deploy in case of engine
failure.
With the anchor stowed we headed straight towards the breaking waves
on port tack, the motor nearly at full throttle. Eileen had a
steady hand on the tiller as the bow began to rise and fall in the
line of foam and solid water plowing into the port bow. The boat
did not falter, I then realized that we could also raise the Main
sail and bury the starboard chine to cleave the waves. That chine
did submerge by the additional power provided as I sheeted the Main,
and the motion of the boat became even more reassuring. I looked
back at my smiling shipmate. We made way through the three to four
foot breakers with out a single heave on the tiller! I even stopped
the motor and tilted it up before getting to clear water.
This boat is no Bird Watcher:
A Black Skimmer must be, at least, twice the weight.
The mizzen can keep the bow up into wind and waves.
Though not tested the Skimmer will take green water on deck.
Skimmer's leaboards are massively strong.
I'm also faced with your dilemma of trying to choose a design.
Bolger's skimmer is a wonderful design in many ways, but I'm drawn
to the BWII because of the ability to sail her while sheltered - for
my kids sake.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jennings <rjennings@g...>
wrote:
>A threethat's
> foot wall does have a lot of mass and inertia for a little boat
> trying to bust through it or slide down it. Thanks everyone forcruiser?
> straightening me out. Living on and near the ocean is new to me. I
> have a lot to learn and appreciate your patience and knowledge.>
> Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal
>ahead already.
> I'll definitely buy all of the books recommended. I feel miles
>
> Robert
What makes the best beach cruiser? It depends on your definition of "beach cruiser". Beach cruisers can be as small as 12 ft and as long as 30. They can be open boats which are either tented in at night or beached with tent camping on shore. They can be boats which have permanent, if spartan cabins. They can be prams, have transoms, or be double ended. Go to Duckworks and click on Michalak plans or Wellsford plans. Type "dinghy cruising" or "beach cruiser" into your favorite search engine. The results will give you some idea of the wonderful variety which is out there.
Probably the most successful commercially built beach cruisers are Dovekie, Sea Pearl, Marsh/Mudhen, and Bayhen. A search engine inquiry on any of these boats will give you lots of information.
Having said all that, A Birdwatcher (which Bolger originally designed as a homebuilt Dovekie) is a fine beach cruiser.
Have fun.
John T
Probably the most successful commercially built beach cruisers are Dovekie, Sea Pearl, Marsh/Mudhen, and Bayhen. A search engine inquiry on any of these boats will give you lots of information.
Having said all that, A Birdwatcher (which Bolger originally designed as a homebuilt Dovekie) is a fine beach cruiser.
Have fun.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: David Romasco
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like birdwatcher
Ouch! You're asking to start a regular old donnybrook on THIS group with a
question like that! There are so many ways to skin that proverbial
cat....... but of course they're all wrong except for my choice! ;-P
Of the various small boats I've owned and sailed (so far), I'd say that I
would be torn between my old Marsh Hen (18' gaff catboat by Florida Bay
Boats, double-ended), which my wife and I cruised the Florida Keys and the
Intracoastal Waterway in, or a Bolger Black Skimmer that we sailed the Keys
in. Both were superb shallow water sailors, although the Marsh Hen was more
manageable for beaching. What made them memorable? Easy and forgiving to
sail, plenty of sprawling space, good storage arrangements, comfortable
sleeping accommodations. The head-turning factor didn't hurt, although you
lose a lot of time at docks and ramps answering questions.
I just received a set of plans for John Welsford's 6m Whaler, and I have to
confess I'm drooling over her possibilities as a jumbo beach cruiser;
perhaps if you ask me again in a few years I'd have another candidate!
David
_____
From: Robert Jennings [mailto:rjennings@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
<snip>
Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal cruiser?
Robert
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The 'bible' of Bolger home boat builders is the HH Payson Instant
Boat book, but it seems incomplete and out of date to me. I recall
that he describes poly resins (overtaken by epoxies), mixes his goop
in waxed containers left over from school children's milk drinks (the
wax contaminates epoxy).... And the descriptions are for open
boats. Perhaps it is time for PCB&Friends to write a 'how to' book
that is up to date and covers the needs of those who build more
enclosed boats than, say, Gypsy or Diablo or a dory. At least I've
thought so, and for some time. While I go forward just fine on my
Chebacco, I'm constantly referring to other books (Parker's for
details, and for awhile, Sam Devlin -- for a few examples) to fill
the large gaps left by the Payson book.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eightysixgt4speed" <rjennings@g...>
wrote:
Boat book, but it seems incomplete and out of date to me. I recall
that he describes poly resins (overtaken by epoxies), mixes his goop
in waxed containers left over from school children's milk drinks (the
wax contaminates epoxy).... And the descriptions are for open
boats. Perhaps it is time for PCB&Friends to write a 'how to' book
that is up to date and covers the needs of those who build more
enclosed boats than, say, Gypsy or Diablo or a dory. At least I've
thought so, and for some time. While I go forward just fine on my
Chebacco, I'm constantly referring to other books (Parker's for
details, and for awhile, Sam Devlin -- for a few examples) to fill
the large gaps left by the Payson book.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eightysixgt4speed" <rjennings@g...>
wrote:
> Hi,but
>
> I'm new to the sailing and this group. The recent article in Wooden
> Boat sold me on the Birdwatcher II. I have some experience as a
> carpender but none on building boats. I'd appreciate it if some of
> you would recommend a few books that teach boat building that
> applies to boats like the Birdwatcher.
>
> Also, the only sailing experience I've had was on a sunfish in a
> West Texas lake, so the I'm interested in your opinions on the
> seaworthyness on the Birdwatcher. Would it be a good boat for
> sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? How well could it go through the
> surf if the waves were three feet high? I'm really ignorant here
> I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
Ouch! You're asking to start a regular old donnybrook on THIS group with a
question like that! There are so many ways to skin that proverbial
cat....... but of course they're all wrong except for my choice! ;-P
Of the various small boats I've owned and sailed (so far), I'd say that I
would be torn between my old Marsh Hen (18' gaff catboat by Florida Bay
Boats, double-ended), which my wife and I cruised the Florida Keys and the
Intracoastal Waterway in, or a Bolger Black Skimmer that we sailed the Keys
in. Both were superb shallow water sailors, although the Marsh Hen was more
manageable for beaching. What made them memorable? Easy and forgiving to
sail, plenty of sprawling space, good storage arrangements, comfortable
sleeping accommodations. The head-turning factor didn't hurt, although you
lose a lot of time at docks and ramps answering questions.
I just received a set of plans for John Welsford's 6m Whaler, and I have to
confess I'm drooling over her possibilities as a jumbo beach cruiser;
perhaps if you ask me again in a few years I'd have another candidate!
David
_____
From: Robert Jennings [mailto:rjennings@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
<snip>
Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal cruiser?
Robert
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
question like that! There are so many ways to skin that proverbial
cat....... but of course they're all wrong except for my choice! ;-P
Of the various small boats I've owned and sailed (so far), I'd say that I
would be torn between my old Marsh Hen (18' gaff catboat by Florida Bay
Boats, double-ended), which my wife and I cruised the Florida Keys and the
Intracoastal Waterway in, or a Bolger Black Skimmer that we sailed the Keys
in. Both were superb shallow water sailors, although the Marsh Hen was more
manageable for beaching. What made them memorable? Easy and forgiving to
sail, plenty of sprawling space, good storage arrangements, comfortable
sleeping accommodations. The head-turning factor didn't hurt, although you
lose a lot of time at docks and ramps answering questions.
I just received a set of plans for John Welsford's 6m Whaler, and I have to
confess I'm drooling over her possibilities as a jumbo beach cruiser;
perhaps if you ask me again in a few years I'd have another candidate!
David
_____
From: Robert Jennings [mailto:rjennings@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
<snip>
Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal cruiser?
Robert
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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*http://www.sodaclubusa.com/referrer.asp?redirect=rv_boat_camp.asp&referrer=
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:HM/A=2196952/rand=396342732>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, fellow Bolgerados, this is what happens when your memory outruns your
clippings..... I saw an article a few years ago in either Sail or Cruising
World regarding Ida's current boat. It was a lovely double-ender of about
30' with a ketch rig (IIRC), and with a flat bottom. The boat was
specifically designed for gunkholing the Bahamas and the Florida Keys, and
was a fine vessel for the purpose. Can anyone else recall that article? I
dug out my copy of Ida's book, but it's the 1992 edition and predates the
larger boat.
This Just In: While belaboring the web for clues on Ida's whereabouts, I
found the Table of Contents for the June 2004 issue of Cruising World had
this tantalizing entry: "Castling the King by Ida Little; The cruising life
is often full of strange twists, and their shipwreck in the Bahamas showed
them that dire causes can sometimes lead to idyllic effects".
David
_____
From: Chris Stewart [mailto:stewtone@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
clippings..... I saw an article a few years ago in either Sail or Cruising
World regarding Ida's current boat. It was a lovely double-ender of about
30' with a ketch rig (IIRC), and with a flat bottom. The boat was
specifically designed for gunkholing the Bahamas and the Florida Keys, and
was a fine vessel for the purpose. Can anyone else recall that article? I
dug out my copy of Ida's book, but it's the 1992 edition and predates the
larger boat.
This Just In: While belaboring the web for clues on Ida's whereabouts, I
found the Table of Contents for the June 2004 issue of Cruising World had
this tantalizing entry: "Castling the King by Ida Little; The cruising life
is often full of strange twists, and their shipwreck in the Bahamas showed
them that dire causes can sometimes lead to idyllic effects".
David
_____
From: Chris Stewart [mailto:stewtone@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
(snip)
Their current boat is
> perhaps the best shallow-draft cruiser I've ever seen (and Dugong
isn't it,
> sorry to say).
>
> David
What is their current boat?
Chris Stewart
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't be discouraged!
The Birdwatcher could be a great choice for what you have in mind; you
just have to be aware of it's limitations, and the limitations of any
boat you might end up using.
Also remember there's a big difference between a breaking wave and a
swell. Once you get past the impact zone (which is a fairly narrow band
for any given wave size) you'll be out in the swell, bobbing up and
down happily. Conversely, when you're coming back in once you get past
the impact zone you should be able to keep control of even a fairly
large boat as long as you keep the bow/strern into the rolling
whitewater.
So get that little punt build and start figuring out what it takes to
get her in and out cleanly. The answer might be simple as planning your
launches and recoveries around the coves, inlets and channels I'm sure
abound on the Gulf Coast!
YIBB,
David
The Birdwatcher could be a great choice for what you have in mind; you
just have to be aware of it's limitations, and the limitations of any
boat you might end up using.
Also remember there's a big difference between a breaking wave and a
swell. Once you get past the impact zone (which is a fairly narrow band
for any given wave size) you'll be out in the swell, bobbing up and
down happily. Conversely, when you're coming back in once you get past
the impact zone you should be able to keep control of even a fairly
large boat as long as you keep the bow/strern into the rolling
whitewater.
So get that little punt build and start figuring out what it takes to
get her in and out cleanly. The answer might be simple as planning your
launches and recoveries around the coves, inlets and channels I'm sure
abound on the Gulf Coast!
YIBB,
David
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 06:16 PM, Robert Jennings wrote:
> There's always the alternative of using the Birdwatcher
> in a large lake. But coastal cruising is my first choice.
> A friend of mine was hot to have me help him build a Paradox. I insistedhe arrange the furniture and some boxes in his living room and stay confined
in the Paradox size space for 24 hours first (he was allowed TV, radio etc
and promised only to exit briefly to grab food from the fridge and to use
the bathroom. He tried, and gave up after 10 hours, too many aches and
pains confined like that...
Brilliant, Rick. What if a friend wanted to build Sleeper?
Lock him in the trunk of a car? ;-)
Justin
Well,
I've read a few stories about ships being dismasted when a huge wave
broke over the stern and the crew being washed out of the cockpit. I
guess I wasn't thinking about the power of a wall of water. A three
foot wall does have a lot of mass and inertia for a little boat that's
trying to bust through it or slide down it. Thanks everyone for
straightening me out. Living on and near the ocean is new to me. I
have a lot to learn and appreciate your patience and knowledge. A
relative started a little Michalak sailing/rowing pram and has offered
it to me to finish. I'll probably do that first. Maybe I can make one
of the messabouts the Texas PDF group has and learn more first hand
about sailing. There's always the alternative of using the Birdwatcher
in a large lake. But coastal cruising is my first choice.
Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal cruiser?
I'll definitely buy all of the books recommended. I feel miles ahead already.
Robert
I've read a few stories about ships being dismasted when a huge wave
broke over the stern and the crew being washed out of the cockpit. I
guess I wasn't thinking about the power of a wall of water. A three
foot wall does have a lot of mass and inertia for a little boat that's
trying to bust through it or slide down it. Thanks everyone for
straightening me out. Living on and near the ocean is new to me. I
have a lot to learn and appreciate your patience and knowledge. A
relative started a little Michalak sailing/rowing pram and has offered
it to me to finish. I'll probably do that first. Maybe I can make one
of the messabouts the Texas PDF group has and learn more first hand
about sailing. There's always the alternative of using the Birdwatcher
in a large lake. But coastal cruising is my first choice.
Dave, if you don't mind, what is the best shallow draft, coastal cruiser?
I'll definitely buy all of the books recommended. I feel miles ahead already.
Robert
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
(snip)
Their current boat is
> perhaps the best shallow-draft cruiser I've ever seen (and Dugong
isn't it,
> sorry to say).
>
> David
What is their current boat?
Chris Stewart
I may have been misunderstood, but I wasn't recommending hurling through 3'
of surf in Dugong; I have launched my Hobie through that kind of surf in
beach race starts, and it's a task for the young and foolhardy. I was
lucky, but I saw snapped rudders and bloody appendages....
No, based on the general sense of what the original writer was describing
(low-cost and low-impact fair weather cruising along a friendly coast such
as Florida's West Coast), Ida Little's book would be of value in sorting out
general concepts and learning from the experience of those who have been
there. In it, she relates the building of Dugong (which is in fact the
design from Different Boats, and PCB talks about Ida's design needs), and
the faults and virtues they found in cruising her. Their current boat is
perhaps the best shallow-draft cruiser I've ever seen (and Dugong isn't it,
sorry to say).
David
_____
From: Howard Stephenson [mailto:stephensonhw@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
Dugong was at one stage being sold by Bernie Wolfard. I'm pretty sure
it's the 26' cruising canoe featured in Ch. 8 of "Different Boats".
It's meant for open-water.
I can't think of any open-water cruising sailboat I'd care to put
through 3' surf. Forty years ago, not far from where I live, people
would launch 16' plywood sailing catamarans straight off the beach in
surf bigger than that at times, so they could race in the Pacific
Ocean. Of course they were not cruising boats. I'm sure people would
do it with a Hobie cat.
Howard
of surf in Dugong; I have launched my Hobie through that kind of surf in
beach race starts, and it's a task for the young and foolhardy. I was
lucky, but I saw snapped rudders and bloody appendages....
No, based on the general sense of what the original writer was describing
(low-cost and low-impact fair weather cruising along a friendly coast such
as Florida's West Coast), Ida Little's book would be of value in sorting out
general concepts and learning from the experience of those who have been
there. In it, she relates the building of Dugong (which is in fact the
design from Different Boats, and PCB talks about Ida's design needs), and
the faults and virtues they found in cruising her. Their current boat is
perhaps the best shallow-draft cruiser I've ever seen (and Dugong isn't it,
sorry to say).
David
_____
From: Howard Stephenson [mailto:stephensonhw@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
Dugong was at one stage being sold by Bernie Wolfard. I'm pretty sure
it's the 26' cruising canoe featured in Ch. 8 of "Different Boats".
It's meant for open-water.
I can't think of any open-water cruising sailboat I'd care to put
through 3' surf. Forty years ago, not far from where I live, people
would launch 16' plywood sailing catamarans straight off the beach in
surf bigger than that at times, so they could race in the Pacific
Ocean. Of course they were not cruising boats. I'm sure people would
do it with a Hobie cat.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
> For what you're looking at, I would highly recommen
d "Beachcruising and
> Coastal Camping " by Ida Little and Michael Walsh. For beach
cruising in
> temperate climates, it's about the most complete book you'll find.
They've
> cruised in everything from a canoe to a custom Bolger design
('Dugong',
> anyone?). They know their onions....
>
> David
Bolger rules!!!
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you haven't sailed, and haven't built a boat, I think it might be
very useful to you, and fun, to build something small and simple. You'd
develop preferences in building without locking in your first choices in
a big project, and you'd find out how you feel about sailing without
risking much. Plus you might be on the water this year if you can spare
60 hours (maybe less?).
Warning: Lincoln is about to get tedious about the Brick again
If you need to have passengers with you, the Brick feels underloaded
even with two large people on board, and it can sail with 4, though
that's pushing it. OTOH, I think Brick feels strange with only one on board.
see below:
snip
very useful to you, and fun, to build something small and simple. You'd
develop preferences in building without locking in your first choices in
a big project, and you'd find out how you feel about sailing without
risking much. Plus you might be on the water this year if you can spare
60 hours (maybe less?).
Warning: Lincoln is about to get tedious about the Brick again
If you need to have passengers with you, the Brick feels underloaded
even with two large people on board, and it can sail with 4, though
that's pushing it. OTOH, I think Brick feels strange with only one on board.
see below:
>Robert Jennings wrote:Keep in mind that Birdwatcher 2 has a lot more sail area.
>Thanks everybody for you replies, esp. Paul. The links to Michalak's
>pages and his experience with the Birdwatcher are very enlightening. I
>appreciate knowing about the water coming through the centerboard case
>at speed and the poor sailing performance in light winds.
>
> snipSeems like if you could pick where to go in they might be lower.
>I was on the beach at Matagorda Island around a month ago. The waves
>were breaking about 30 to 50 foot off the beach and hit me pretty hard
>standing out in it. Some of the bigger ones seemed about to be about
>three feet tall. About 100 feet from the shore the waves were much
>shorter and looked more like swells to this desert dweller, I'm
>guessing most boats would handle those fine.
>
snip
Dugong was at one stage being sold by Bernie Wolfard. I'm pretty sure
it's the 26' cruising canoe featured in Ch. 8 of "Different Boats".
It's meant for open-water.
I can't think of any open-water cruising sailboat I'd care to put
through 3' surf. Forty years ago, not far from where I live, people
would launch 16' plywood sailing catamarans straight off the beach in
surf bigger than that at times, so they could race in the Pacific
Ocean. Of course they were not cruising boats. I'm sure people would
do it with a Hobie cat.
Howard
it's the 26' cruising canoe featured in Ch. 8 of "Different Boats".
It's meant for open-water.
I can't think of any open-water cruising sailboat I'd care to put
through 3' surf. Forty years ago, not far from where I live, people
would launch 16' plywood sailing catamarans straight off the beach in
surf bigger than that at times, so they could race in the Pacific
Ocean. Of course they were not cruising boats. I'm sure people would
do it with a Hobie cat.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
> For what you're looking at, I would highly recommen
d "Beachcruising and
> Coastal Camping " by Ida Little and Michael Walsh. For beach
cruising in
> temperate climates, it's about the most complete book you'll find.
They've
> cruised in everything from a canoe to a custom Bolger design
('Dugong',
> anyone?). They know their onions....
>
> David
For what you're looking at, I would highly recommend "Beachcruising and
Coastal Camping " by Ida Little and Michael Walsh. For beach cruising in
temperate climates, it's about the most complete book you'll find. They've
cruised in everything from a canoe to a custom Bolger design ('Dugong',
anyone?). They know their onions....
David
_____
From: pvanderwaart [mailto:pvanderwaart@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:18 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
around the eastern US. The parts about the Erie Canal and
Mississippi River are not that relevant to you, but the portions
from New Orleans around Florida and up to Canada would be
interesting.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Coastal Camping " by Ida Little and Michael Walsh. For beach cruising in
temperate climates, it's about the most complete book you'll find. They've
cruised in everything from a canoe to a custom Bolger design ('Dugong',
anyone?). They know their onions....
David
_____
From: pvanderwaart [mailto:pvanderwaart@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:18 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: books on techniques for building boats like
birdwatcher
> My dream is too sail along the coast, stopping at night,You might try to find the book "On the water" by Nat Stone. He rowed
> perhaps going ashore to camp out, shower, buy food,...
around the eastern US. The parts about the Erie Canal and
Mississippi River are not that relevant to you, but the portions
from New Orleans around Florida and up to Canada would be
interesting.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My dream is too sail along the coast, stopping at night,You might try to find the book "On the water" by Nat Stone. He rowed
> perhaps going ashore to camp out, shower, buy food,...
around the eastern US. The parts about the Erie Canal and
Mississippi River are not that relevant to you, but the portions
from New Orleans around Florida and up to Canada would be
interesting.
Peter
Speed/power is your friend in the impact zone. A motor might give you
more of both, but you stand to lose more if you misjudge.
I haven't ever been on the Gulf Coast, so take this for what it's worth.
During the Summer I'd be perfectly happy cruising a BW along the South
Coast of Long Island. There are plenty of days when getting her on and
off the beach would be no problem. On most days you could also easily
anchor 50 yards out and wade/swim ashore. There are also plenty of
inlets that would provide refuge.
The trouble comes when you try and push it (which I do in my Gull all
the time). A moment's miscalculation and you've got a boat full of
trouble. For a cautious man this day might never come.
YIBB,
David
more of both, but you stand to lose more if you misjudge.
I haven't ever been on the Gulf Coast, so take this for what it's worth.
During the Summer I'd be perfectly happy cruising a BW along the South
Coast of Long Island. There are plenty of days when getting her on and
off the beach would be no problem. On most days you could also easily
anchor 50 yards out and wade/swim ashore. There are also plenty of
inlets that would provide refuge.
The trouble comes when you try and push it (which I do in my Gull all
the time). A moment's miscalculation and you've got a boat full of
trouble. For a cautious man this day might never come.
YIBB,
David
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 01:39 PM, Robert Jennings wrote:
>
> Actually, I am/was planning on building a Birdwatcher II and using a
> small outboard to help in the difficult times. Would that make a big
> difference getting on and off the beach or am I do I need to
> reconsider my boat choice.
Thanks everybody for you replies, esp. Paul. The links to Michalak's
pages and his experience with the Birdwatcher are very enlightening. I
appreciate knowing about the water coming through the centerboard case
at speed and the poor sailing performance in light winds. I like the
design for it's self righting abilities, protected cabin area in cold
weather, extremely low draft, and the fact that Philip Bolger designed
it. I bought Folding Schooners about 30 years ago and have admired
Bolger ever since.
I was on the beach at Matagorda Island around a month ago. The waves
were breaking about 30 to 50 foot off the beach and hit me pretty hard
standing out in it. Some of the bigger ones seemed about to be about
three feet tall. About 100 feet from the shore the waves were much
shorter and looked more like swells to this desert dweller, I'm
guessing most boats would handle those fine.
My dream is too sail along the coast, stopping at night, perhaps going
ashore to camp out, shower, buy food,... I was planning on beaching at
night. I may retire in a few years on a very small pension. It seemed
like a good way to enjoy life and live cheaply. There's lots of places
that aren't crowded because of the shallow water.
Actually, I am/was planning on building a Birdwatcher II and using a
small outboard to help in the difficult times. Would that make a big
difference getting on and off the beach or am I do I need to
reconsider my boat choice.
Thanks again for your advice,
Robert
pages and his experience with the Birdwatcher are very enlightening. I
appreciate knowing about the water coming through the centerboard case
at speed and the poor sailing performance in light winds. I like the
design for it's self righting abilities, protected cabin area in cold
weather, extremely low draft, and the fact that Philip Bolger designed
it. I bought Folding Schooners about 30 years ago and have admired
Bolger ever since.
I was on the beach at Matagorda Island around a month ago. The waves
were breaking about 30 to 50 foot off the beach and hit me pretty hard
standing out in it. Some of the bigger ones seemed about to be about
three feet tall. About 100 feet from the shore the waves were much
shorter and looked more like swells to this desert dweller, I'm
guessing most boats would handle those fine.
My dream is too sail along the coast, stopping at night, perhaps going
ashore to camp out, shower, buy food,... I was planning on beaching at
night. I may retire in a few years on a very small pension. It seemed
like a good way to enjoy life and live cheaply. There's lots of places
that aren't crowded because of the shallow water.
Actually, I am/was planning on building a Birdwatcher II and using a
small outboard to help in the difficult times. Would that make a big
difference getting on and off the beach or am I do I need to
reconsider my boat choice.
Thanks again for your advice,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: Justin Meddock <jmeddock@...>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:28:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [bolger] books on techniques for building boats like birdwatcher
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? How well could it go through the
> surf if the waves were three feet high?
Clarify please. Are you speaking of 3 foot waves in open water, or do
you mean launching from a beach and trying to get out through the
breaking waves at the beach?
Birdwatcher should be a quite competent gulf coast cruiser.
Not for the surf zone though....
Justin
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Here is another Michalak newsletter on the hull design of BW, and he
talks about sail/motor/rowing.
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0401/
Paul
talks about sail/motor/rowing.
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0401/
Paul
> My dream is too sail along the coast, stopping at night, perhaps goingJust do this on the back side of islands and sandbars, small inlets, etc.
> ashore to camp out, shower, buy food,... I was planning on beaching at
> night.
Doesn't the Gulf coast have lots of inshore waters behind barrier islands?
No need to beach on the gulf shore directly?
> How well could it go through theAsking the designer would be a great idea. In previous
> surf if the waves were three feet high? I'm really ignorant here but
> I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
writings about Birdwatcher, Bolger wrote that hauling
an inflatable boat as a tender would be appropriate for
Birdwatcher. Towing a surf capable rowboat along
wouldn't be out of the question either, though its drag
would degrade the ability to row the Birdwatcher.
Check this Michalak newsletter link for a picture of BW on the beach.
This is the way you want the water to look before beaching a BW (well
me anyway).
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15oct03.htm
This is the way you want the water to look before beaching a BW (well
me anyway).
http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15oct03.htm
> How well could it go through the surf if the waves were three feethigh?
Jim Michalak was one of the first to build a Birdwatcher and he
designs Bolger style boats and writes an online newsletter called Jim
Michalak's Boat Designs. Just do a Google search. He has a good
amount of Birdwatcher material in some of his newsletters. He
recently wrote a book (or is this his second book?) I have not read
called "Boatbuilding for Beginners (And Beyond)". His newsletters are
well worth reading, and I believe his book contains all the same
information, in one easy to read package.
Birdwatcher is a beach cruiser it is not a surfboat. I'm not sure it
qualifies as a coastal cruiser. Hopefully someone familiar with the
Gulf of Mexico and/or surf experience can share their knowledge here.
Paul
designs Bolger style boats and writes an online newsletter called Jim
Michalak's Boat Designs. Just do a Google search. He has a good
amount of Birdwatcher material in some of his newsletters. He
recently wrote a book (or is this his second book?) I have not read
called "Boatbuilding for Beginners (And Beyond)". His newsletters are
well worth reading, and I believe his book contains all the same
information, in one easy to read package.
Birdwatcher is a beach cruiser it is not a surfboat. I'm not sure it
qualifies as a coastal cruiser. Hopefully someone familiar with the
Gulf of Mexico and/or surf experience can share their knowledge here.
Paul
> I'd appreciate it if some of you would recommend a few books thatteach boat building that applies to boats like the Birdwatcher.
> Would it be a good boat for sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? Howwell could it go through the surf if the waves were three feet high?
> I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
"Instant Boats" by Dynamite Payson will tell everything you need to
know to build a Birdwatch; plus you've got all of us to help you out if
you get stuck.
I can't imagine any small boat, save perhaps a beach cat, going out
through three foot surf without significant risk of being rolled. If
forced to launch a BW through such conditions, likely I'd walk her out
by the bow with a second on standby with the oars to go like hell once
I pulled the boat out past the impact zone. Coming back in through such
conditions would only be more harrowing. The thought of being sideways
in the impact zone in a Birdwatch is distressing to say the least.
YIBB,
David
know to build a Birdwatch; plus you've got all of us to help you out if
you get stuck.
I can't imagine any small boat, save perhaps a beach cat, going out
through three foot surf without significant risk of being rolled. If
forced to launch a BW through such conditions, likely I'd walk her out
by the bow with a second on standby with the oars to go like hell once
I pulled the boat out past the impact zone. Coming back in through such
conditions would only be more harrowing. The thought of being sideways
in the impact zone in a Birdwatch is distressing to say the least.
YIBB,
David
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 09:28 AM, eightysixgt4speed wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to the sailing and this group. The recent article in Wooden
> Boat sold me on the Birdwatcher II. I have some experience as a
> carpender but none on building boats. I'd appreciate it if some of
> you would recommend a few books that teach boat building that
> applies to boats like the Birdwatcher.
>
> Also, the only sailing experience I've had was on a sunfish in a
> West Texas lake, so the I'm interested in your opinions on the
> seaworthyness on the Birdwatcher. Would it be a good boat for
> sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? How well could it go through the
> surf if the waves were three feet high? I'm really ignorant here but
> I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Hi,
I'm new to the sailing and this group. The recent article in Wooden
Boat sold me on the Birdwatcher II. I have some experience as a
carpender but none on building boats. I'd appreciate it if some of
you would recommend a few books that teach boat building that
applies to boats like the Birdwatcher.
Also, the only sailing experience I've had was on a sunfish in a
West Texas lake, so the I'm interested in your opinions on the
seaworthyness on the Birdwatcher. Would it be a good boat for
sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? How well could it go through the
surf if the waves were three feet high? I'm really ignorant here but
I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.
Thanks,
Robert
I'm new to the sailing and this group. The recent article in Wooden
Boat sold me on the Birdwatcher II. I have some experience as a
carpender but none on building boats. I'd appreciate it if some of
you would recommend a few books that teach boat building that
applies to boats like the Birdwatcher.
Also, the only sailing experience I've had was on a sunfish in a
West Texas lake, so the I'm interested in your opinions on the
seaworthyness on the Birdwatcher. Would it be a good boat for
sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? How well could it go through the
surf if the waves were three feet high? I'm really ignorant here but
I would like to use the boat as a coastal cruiser.
Thanks,
Robert
> sailing along the Gulf of Mexico? How well could it go through theClarify please. Are you speaking of 3 foot waves in open water, or do
> surf if the waves were three feet high?
you mean launching from a beach and trying to get out through the
breaking waves at the beach?
Birdwatcher should be a quite competent gulf coast cruiser.
Not for the surf zone though....
Justin