[bolger] Re: Building from books - registration of home built boats in the UK
Hey Juan
BURROcrat I love that! In English another name for a donkey is "ass".
And you can see how that can be used in word play :)
Greg
BURROcrat I love that! In English another name for a donkey is "ass".
And you can see how that can be used in word play :)
Greg
> laws are being modified to comply, but many a point has to be debated,
> paragraph by paragraph, with the "BURROcrats" ( A long standing
> spanish wordplay between bureaucrat and "burro", word meaning donkey
> in spanish).
>
The only area of particular concern is if you wish to sell the boat. In
order to be exempt from the EU's Recreational Craft Directive the boat
must have been built substantially by the owner (you can have help, but
you can't pay somebody to build it for you) and cannot be sold until
five years from the date of first launch. Given that I've hobbies other
than boatbuilding (sailing, for a start), I'm unlikely to complete more
than one boat in five years, so this isn't too much of a problem for me.
Boating is probably one of the least regulated passtimes in the UK,
hopefully a state of affairs that can continue for the forseeable future.
Dan,
Thanks for the info.
We are still a bit in the murky waters of the compliance with EU's
Directive 94/25 CE regarding recreational Craft. Many of the National
laws are being modified to comply, but many a point has to be debated,
paragraph by paragraph, with the "BURROcrats" ( A long standing
spanish wordplay between bureaucrat and "burro", word meaning donkey
in spanish).
The problem is that since no one depends on amateur construction for
their livelyhood, no one really gets ornery enough to make headway and
clarify the situation.
I have gotten to the point where I am seriously considering investing
a good amount of time and resources to build a pocket cruiser ( Micro
navigator has good chances) and I don't want to get into it to have
some ***hole official TRY to stop me from finishing it or getting to
the water. To prevent that I am going to try to cajole someone at the
Naval Authority into putting the O.K. in writing to build and
navigate self-built craft, by using the collection of rules,
regulations, and other documents I have accumulated the last 5 years.
If anyone in the E.U. is reading this and can comment on how things
stand in your country, I'd be very glad to hear about it.
Saludos.
Juan.
order to be exempt from the EU's Recreational Craft Directive the boat
must have been built substantially by the owner (you can have help, but
you can't pay somebody to build it for you) and cannot be sold until
five years from the date of first launch. Given that I've hobbies other
than boatbuilding (sailing, for a start), I'm unlikely to complete more
than one boat in five years, so this isn't too much of a problem for me.
Boating is probably one of the least regulated passtimes in the UK,
hopefully a state of affairs that can continue for the forseeable future.
Dan,
Thanks for the info.
We are still a bit in the murky waters of the compliance with EU's
Directive 94/25 CE regarding recreational Craft. Many of the National
laws are being modified to comply, but many a point has to be debated,
paragraph by paragraph, with the "BURROcrats" ( A long standing
spanish wordplay between bureaucrat and "burro", word meaning donkey
in spanish).
The problem is that since no one depends on amateur construction for
their livelyhood, no one really gets ornery enough to make headway and
clarify the situation.
I have gotten to the point where I am seriously considering investing
a good amount of time and resources to build a pocket cruiser ( Micro
navigator has good chances) and I don't want to get into it to have
some ***hole official TRY to stop me from finishing it or getting to
the water. To prevent that I am going to try to cajole someone at the
Naval Authority into putting the O.K. in writing to build and
navigate self-built craft, by using the collection of rules,
regulations, and other documents I have accumulated the last 5 years.
If anyone in the E.U. is reading this and can comment on how things
stand in your country, I'd be very glad to hear about it.
Saludos.
Juan.
Suzanne, with a heavy cold.
_____
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 10:33 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] New 'friend' at PB&F
Ref:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackyardBoatbuilding2/message/1936
A guy name Phil in the Yahoo BackyardBoatbuilding2 [Buehler]
group writes of:
"I just spent about an hour on the phone today with a gentleman from
Phil Bolgers
office,"..."it was a guy with a heavy continental accent, and he did
tell me his name but it wasn't Phil(can't remember, senior moment),
Nice guy so very knowledgable. "
Who might this be? A friend/relative of Suzanne Altenberger?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_____
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 10:33 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] New 'friend' at PB&F
Ref:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackyardBoatbuilding2/message/1936
A guy name Phil in the Yahoo BackyardBoatbuilding2 [Buehler]
group writes of:
"I just spent about an hour on the phone today with a gentleman from
Phil Bolgers
office,"..."it was a guy with a heavy continental accent, and he did
tell me his name but it wasn't Phil(can't remember, senior moment),
Nice guy so very knowledgable. "
Who might this be? A friend/relative of Suzanne Altenberger?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ref:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackyardBoatbuilding2/message/1936
A guy name Phil in the Yahoo BackyardBoatbuilding2 [Buehler]
group writes of:
"I just spent about an hour on the phone today with a gentleman from
Phil Bolgers
office,"..."it was a guy with a heavy continental accent, and he did
tell me his name but it wasn't Phil(can't remember, senior moment),
Nice guy so very knowledgable. "
Who might this be? A friend/relative of Suzanne Altenberger?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackyardBoatbuilding2/message/1936
A guy name Phil in the Yahoo BackyardBoatbuilding2 [Buehler]
group writes of:
"I just spent about an hour on the phone today with a gentleman from
Phil Bolgers
office,"..."it was a guy with a heavy continental accent, and he did
tell me his name but it wasn't Phil(can't remember, senior moment),
Nice guy so very knowledgable. "
Who might this be? A friend/relative of Suzanne Altenberger?
At the moment, this is at least easy in the UK. You don't need to
register a boat for personal use (at least at the sizes most of us are
dealing with), and there's nothing to stop you putting to sea no matter
how your boat is constructed and fitted out. You can register a
description of your vessel with the Coastguard for free, in case you go
missing or need help, and it's possible to pay a small amount for what's
known as 'part 1' registration, which provides a clear legal title to
the boat (this is much less important in the UK than in many other
countries). Most people wouldn't bother with this for small pleasure
vessels unless they wished to take the boat abroad (I might register the
Catfish once she's built as I've contemplated trailering her to Norway
or Denmark (we can get a ferry from the port a mile or so from our new
house)).
The only other thing that might cause you to register your boat with
somebody is if you wish to use a VHF radio, when both the operator and
the vessel must have appropriate licences. (I'd consider this necessary
for coastal cruising, as we get a lot of commercial traffic and the
coastline is quite rural, with patchy cellphone coverage.)
The only area of particular concern is if you wish to sell the boat. In
order to be exempt from the EU's Recreational Craft Directive the boat
must have been built substantially by the owner (you can have help, but
you can't pay somebody to build it for you) and cannot be sold until
five years from the date of first launch. Given that I've hobbies other
than boatbuilding (sailing, for a start), I'm unlikely to complete more
than one boat in five years, so this isn't too much of a problem for me.
Boating is probably one of the least regulated passtimes in the UK,
hopefully a state of affairs that can continue for the forseeable future.
Dan
register a boat for personal use (at least at the sizes most of us are
dealing with), and there's nothing to stop you putting to sea no matter
how your boat is constructed and fitted out. You can register a
description of your vessel with the Coastguard for free, in case you go
missing or need help, and it's possible to pay a small amount for what's
known as 'part 1' registration, which provides a clear legal title to
the boat (this is much less important in the UK than in many other
countries). Most people wouldn't bother with this for small pleasure
vessels unless they wished to take the boat abroad (I might register the
Catfish once she's built as I've contemplated trailering her to Norway
or Denmark (we can get a ferry from the port a mile or so from our new
house)).
The only other thing that might cause you to register your boat with
somebody is if you wish to use a VHF radio, when both the operator and
the vessel must have appropriate licences. (I'd consider this necessary
for coastal cruising, as we get a lot of commercial traffic and the
coastline is quite rural, with patchy cellphone coverage.)
The only area of particular concern is if you wish to sell the boat. In
order to be exempt from the EU's Recreational Craft Directive the boat
must have been built substantially by the owner (you can have help, but
you can't pay somebody to build it for you) and cannot be sold until
five years from the date of first launch. Given that I've hobbies other
than boatbuilding (sailing, for a start), I'm unlikely to complete more
than one boat in five years, so this isn't too much of a problem for me.
Boating is probably one of the least regulated passtimes in the UK,
hopefully a state of affairs that can continue for the forseeable future.
Dan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, juan negron <juan.negron@g...> wrote:
This has come up before and,to put your mind at ease,if the
designer chooses to show the complete plans in a book then it is
fair to expect some folks to actually attempt building a boat
from"the book".
However,if you run into problems while building a boat from some
reduced plans printed in a book,I'm not sure how helpful the
designer will be when contacted.
Also,why ruin your eyes attempting to read the mini plans when
lovely regular sized plans are availble for a very small fraction of
the cost of the boat?
And finally,it is through revenues generated from plans and
commissions that "our" favorite designers can stay in business to
provide us with some often remarkable designs.......we may not build
them all,but they sure crank up the dream fires each night!
Sorry to hear that you are awash in some controletti bullshit over
in Spain...it is only a wee bit better over here,but God knows our
own technocrats are toiling day and night to catch up with you and
the rest of the contintent:-(
Good Luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.....
> Hello all,plans in a book.
>
> I´m wondering about the ethical implications of building from
>Juan,
This has come up before and,to put your mind at ease,if the
designer chooses to show the complete plans in a book then it is
fair to expect some folks to actually attempt building a boat
from"the book".
However,if you run into problems while building a boat from some
reduced plans printed in a book,I'm not sure how helpful the
designer will be when contacted.
Also,why ruin your eyes attempting to read the mini plans when
lovely regular sized plans are availble for a very small fraction of
the cost of the boat?
And finally,it is through revenues generated from plans and
commissions that "our" favorite designers can stay in business to
provide us with some often remarkable designs.......we may not build
them all,but they sure crank up the dream fires each night!
Sorry to hear that you are awash in some controletti bullshit over
in Spain...it is only a wee bit better over here,but God knows our
own technocrats are toiling day and night to catch up with you and
the rest of the contintent:-(
Good Luck!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.....
Hello all,
I´m wondering about the ethical implications of building from plans in a book.
I have built a Brick from Bolger´s "Boats with an open mind" book,
and *afterward* started wondering if it was intended to be this way.
It was obvious to me that if all measurements and info was included,
was for the buyer to be able to do so. Now I wonder...
I would never dream of building one of the larger, more involved
designs, from the book. I´ve been looking at the Micro for a couple of
years, and the Navigator evolution looks more and more inviting. If I
were to build it I would get the plans from PBF, if only to have a
line to them in case of trouble.
Registration is the only thing that keeps me from starting. If they
could get their act together here in Spain about amateur construction
and registration! Some day I´ll post a few lines about the absurd mess
that some paternalistic bureaucrats have created here.
Saludos,
Juan.
I´m wondering about the ethical implications of building from plans in a book.
I have built a Brick from Bolger´s "Boats with an open mind" book,
and *afterward* started wondering if it was intended to be this way.
It was obvious to me that if all measurements and info was included,
was for the buyer to be able to do so. Now I wonder...
I would never dream of building one of the larger, more involved
designs, from the book. I´ve been looking at the Micro for a couple of
years, and the Navigator evolution looks more and more inviting. If I
were to build it I would get the plans from PBF, if only to have a
line to them in case of trouble.
Registration is the only thing that keeps me from starting. If they
could get their act together here in Spain about amateur construction
and registration! Some day I´ll post a few lines about the absurd mess
that some paternalistic bureaucrats have created here.
Saludos,
Juan.