Re: Thinking Micro...

Tim,
Kids have gone to FLA with grandparents, nothing much to do
except boatbuilding and work. It is amazing how much time there is
once we don't have to schlep the kids to soccer, karate, ballet, and
gymnastics.
Hint to all single guys: "make sure that your bride to be knows
the difference between a phillips head screwdriver and a hammer, and
how to use them, and you will be in for a long and happy relationship

David Jost
"married for 16 years (in 4 days), and 7.5 boatbuilding projects".


--- Inbolger@egroups.com, T Webber <tbertw@s...> wrote:
> List,
>
> Wife helping in boatbuilding. It is almost like having an
articulated and
> pretty saw horse that you can occasionally smooch with!!!!!
>
> David Jost wrote:
> At 12:47 PM 06/23/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>
> "so I recruited my wife's help in drilling the holes and
temporarily
> nailing the frames in place until I was sure I had them lined up
right."
>
> Tim - Houston - wife out of town - gone to lake every evening this
week!!!!
List,

Wife helping in boatbuilding. It is almost like having an articulated and
pretty saw horse that you can occasionally smooch with!!!!!

David Jost wrote:
At 12:47 PM 06/23/2000 -0000, you wrote:

"so I recruited my wife's help in drilling the holes and temporarily
nailing the frames in place until I was sure I had them lined up right."

Tim - Houston - wife out of town - gone to lake every evening this week!!!!
Fellow Micro builders,
I agree that the building time is considerable. I finally went
three dimensional. I found it difficult to line up the frames with
the
sides by myself, so I recruited my wife's help in drilling the holes
and temporarily nailing the frames in place until I was sure I had
them
lined up right.
I found that the process sped up considerably once I moved
everything out of the garage and on to the lawn. Then with
thunderstorms coming through, the two of us were able to march the
whole affair back into the garage.
I am now the proud owner of a semi complete three dimensional
micro hull. (pictures are in the camera, but will be posted soon)

Next step. chine logs and bottom.

David Jost. "working again on another glorious sailing day"
John,
Pity you could not stop by,the forecast for today is sunny,temps
in the 25 to 27 degree range with winds out of the southwest at 15
knots.....my kind of perfect sailing day!
You can bet I'll be out today taking full advantage too.......
Should your travels bring you back a wee bit further west then the
maritimes next time,by all means let me know and,weather
permitting,you and I can take the MICRO out for a spin.That ought to
stir your building fires into a raging inferno!
Safe trip home,
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Montréal,Québec





--- Inbolger@egroups.com, John Bell <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> We'll see about the set-up time if I can ever get the boat built. I
seem to
> be on a never ending road trip, so it is very difficult to keep any
> momentum going in the building department. Ironically, I'm in
Moncton, NB
> tonight and will be passing through Montreal tomorrow morning on my
way
> back home to Atlanta. It's too bad I didn't try to wind up Montreal
with
> some free time this week.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences.
>
> Best,
>
> JB on the road in Canada...
>
>
>
> At 07:37 AM 6/22/00 +0000, peter lenihan wrote:
> >John Bell,
> > Do not let the mast intimidate you!I regularily unstep my
mast
> >each time I go up to visit a friend who lives on the"wrong" side
of a
> >low bridge and do not even bother to drop my anchor.That's right,I
do
> >this afloat and the whole affair cannot take more then 5 minutes
> >including the un-rigging of the lazyjacks/topping lifts and snotter
> >from the main sprit-boom.
> > As far as"fishing the mast throught the partners" goes,it is
not
> >so much"fishing" as simply inclining the heel down into the mast
step
> >hole and then walking the mast up into the partner before dropping
> >the retaining board(I cannot recall the proper name for this)into
> >place.The key to successfuly pulling this whole thing off is to NOT
> >hesitate halfway through the act.Before actually stepping the
> >mast,practice lifting it up onto your shoulder and finding out
where
> >the balance point is.Once you become accustomed to the heft of the
> >mast,it is really very simple to actually step it into the boat by
> >standing with legs apart on the cabin top,lowering the heel into
the
> >step and walking it up.
> > All of this is said,of coarse,without knowing your physical
> >parameters.I am 6'tall and have no difficulties with any of the
above.
> > As far as taking anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to launch
> >the boat and be ready to sail.......somebodies doing something
> >terribly wrong or just taking far too many beer breaks!Under 15
> >minutes is my average time.
> > Best of luck with your MICRO
> >
> >Peter Lenihan,sailing my a** off while the weather lasts on the
> >rapidly dropping and always dirty St.Lawrence,despite tons of rain
> >from out West..........
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> > > I'm building a Micro myself.
> > >
> > > According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an
all
> > > around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
> > > criticisms, though.
> > >
> > > The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step.
> >I've
> > > got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be
intimidating.
> >It
> > > is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.
> > >
> > > The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer",
> >since
> > > it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to
set up
> > > and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way,
you
> > > might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work
sail.
> > > This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
> > > sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd
> >all
> > > get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably
going
> >to
> > > keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.
> > >
> > > Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.
> > >
> > > John Bell
> > > Kennesaw, GA
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mark Paquette" <paquette@d...>
wrote:
> > > > I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my
first
> > > > boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her
to
> > > the
> > > > water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12
> >designed
> > > by
> > > > Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.
> > > >
> > > > Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the
> > > Micro.
> > > > I have a couple of question for the group.
> > > >
> > > > First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design.
> >Everything I
> > > > have
> > > > been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has
> >anyone
> > > > out there
> > > > willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about
this
> > > boat?
> > > > (Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)
> > > >
> > > > Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building
time
> > > est.,
> > > > would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes,
talking
> >my
> > > > wife into
> > > > letting me start the next boat this summer, would be
> >this "cause"...
> > > >
> > > > Thank you...
> > > > Mark in MN
> > > >
> > > > PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> >SALESFORCE.COM MAKES SOFTWARE OBSOLETE
> >Secure, online sales force automation with 5 users FREE for 1 year!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/2658/13/_/3457/_/961659467/
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> >
> >Bolger rules:
> >- no cursing
> >- stay on topic
> >- use punctuation
> >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
We'll see about the set-up time if I can ever get the boat built. I seem to
be on a never ending road trip, so it is very difficult to keep any
momentum going in the building department. Ironically, I'm in Moncton, NB
tonight and will be passing through Montreal tomorrow morning on my way
back home to Atlanta. It's too bad I didn't try to wind up Montreal with
some free time this week.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Best,

JB on the road in Canada...



At 07:37 AM 6/22/00 +0000, peter lenihan wrote:
>John Bell,
> Do not let the mast intimidate you!I regularily unstep my mast
>each time I go up to visit a friend who lives on the"wrong" side of a
>low bridge and do not even bother to drop my anchor.That's right,I do
>this afloat and the whole affair cannot take more then 5 minutes
>including the un-rigging of the lazyjacks/topping lifts and snotter
>from the main sprit-boom.
> As far as"fishing the mast throught the partners" goes,it is not
>so much"fishing" as simply inclining the heel down into the mast step
>hole and then walking the mast up into the partner before dropping
>the retaining board(I cannot recall the proper name for this)into
>place.The key to successfuly pulling this whole thing off is to NOT
>hesitate halfway through the act.Before actually stepping the
>mast,practice lifting it up onto your shoulder and finding out where
>the balance point is.Once you become accustomed to the heft of the
>mast,it is really very simple to actually step it into the boat by
>standing with legs apart on the cabin top,lowering the heel into the
>step and walking it up.
> All of this is said,of coarse,without knowing your physical
>parameters.I am 6'tall and have no difficulties with any of the above.
> As far as taking anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to launch
>the boat and be ready to sail.......somebodies doing something
>terribly wrong or just taking far too many beer breaks!Under 15
>minutes is my average time.
> Best of luck with your MICRO
>
>Peter Lenihan,sailing my a** off while the weather lasts on the
>rapidly dropping and always dirty St.Lawrence,despite tons of rain
>from out West..........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> > I'm building a Micro myself.
> >
> > According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an all
> > around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
> > criticisms, though.
> >
> > The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step.
>I've
> > got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be intimidating.
>It
> > is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.
> >
> > The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer",
>since
> > it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to set up
> > and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way, you
> > might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work sail.
> > This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
> > sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd
>all
> > get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably going
>to
> > keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.
> >
> > Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.
> >
> > John Bell
> > Kennesaw, GA
> >
> > --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mark Paquette" <paquette@d...> wrote:
> > > I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
> > > boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to
> > the
> > > water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12
>designed
> > by
> > > Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.
> > >
> > > Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the
> > Micro.
> > > I have a couple of question for the group.
> > >
> > > First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design.
>Everything I
> > > have
> > > been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has
>anyone
> > > out there
> > > willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this
> > boat?
> > > (Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)
> > >
> > > Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time
> > est.,
> > > would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking
>my
> > > wife into
> > > letting me start the next boat this summer, would be
>this "cause"...
> > >
> > > Thank you...
> > > Mark in MN
> > >
> > > PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>SALESFORCE.COM MAKES SOFTWARE OBSOLETE
>Secure, online sales force automation with 5 users FREE for 1 year!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2658/13/_/3457/_/961659467/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Bolger rules:
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
John Bell,
Do not let the mast intimidate you!I regularily unstep my mast
each time I go up to visit a friend who lives on the"wrong" side of a
low bridge and do not even bother to drop my anchor.That's right,I do
this afloat and the whole affair cannot take more then 5 minutes
including the un-rigging of the lazyjacks/topping lifts and snotter
from the main sprit-boom.
As far as"fishing the mast throught the partners" goes,it is not
so much"fishing" as simply inclining the heel down into the mast step
hole and then walking the mast up into the partner before dropping
the retaining board(I cannot recall the proper name for this)into
place.The key to successfuly pulling this whole thing off is to NOT
hesitate halfway through the act.Before actually stepping the
mast,practice lifting it up onto your shoulder and finding out where
the balance point is.Once you become accustomed to the heft of the
mast,it is really very simple to actually step it into the boat by
standing with legs apart on the cabin top,lowering the heel into the
step and walking it up.
All of this is said,of coarse,without knowing your physical
parameters.I am 6'tall and have no difficulties with any of the above.
As far as taking anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to launch
the boat and be ready to sail.......somebodies doing something
terribly wrong or just taking far too many beer breaks!Under 15
minutes is my average time.
Best of luck with your MICRO

Peter Lenihan,sailing my a** off while the weather lasts on the
rapidly dropping and always dirty St.Lawrence,despite tons of rain
from out West..........






--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> I'm building a Micro myself.
>
> According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an all
> around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
> criticisms, though.
>
> The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step.
I've
> got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be intimidating.
It
> is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.
>
> The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer",
since
> it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to set up
> and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way, you
> might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work sail.
> This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
> sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd
all
> get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably going
to
> keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.
>
> Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.
>
> John Bell
> Kennesaw, GA
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mark Paquette" <paquette@d...> wrote:
> > I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
> > boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to
> the
> > water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12
designed
> by
> > Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.
> >
> > Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the
> Micro.
> > I have a couple of question for the group.
> >
> > First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design.
Everything I
> > have
> > been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has
anyone
> > out there
> > willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this
> boat?
> > (Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)
> >
> > Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time
> est.,
> > would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking
my
> > wife into
> > letting me start the next boat this summer, would be
this "cause"...
> >
> > Thank you...
> > Mark in MN
> >
> > PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
Wouldn't it be rowboats, canoes, or kayaks? Watch out or those
high powered jetski ads will turn your mind to mush.


--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
snip I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd all
> get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we?
snip
I'm building a Micro myself.

According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an all
around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
criticisms, though.

The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step. I've
got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be intimidating. It
is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.

The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer", since
it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to set up
and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way, you
might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work sail.
This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd all
get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably going to
keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.

Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.

John Bell
Kennesaw, GA

--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mark Paquette" <paquette@d...> wrote:
> I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
> boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to
the
> water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12 designed
by
> Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.
>
> Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the
Micro.
> I have a couple of question for the group.
>
> First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design. Everything I
> have
> been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has anyone
> out there
> willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this
boat?
> (Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)
>
> Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time
est.,
> would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking my
> wife into
> letting me start the next boat this summer, would be this "cause"...
>
> Thank you...
> Mark in MN
>
> PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
I'm building out of mostly 3/8" fir ply and dimensional lumber.
Fiberglass on all outside surfaces. Used trailer. I have a motor.
I'm not finished yet, but $3300 dollars seems about right. I'm also
including costs of saw horses, belt sander and other assorted tools I
did not have. Total tool cost may be about $200 of the total. My
cost also includes about $775 for sails (5 oz. dacron tanbark).

I have no idea how much time I've spent on it. Working time seems to
expand constantly. Everything seems to take longer than I thought,
but I have to learn everything from scratch as I go along.
Nevertheless, it's an enjoyable hobby and I'm already thinking about
what boat I'm going to build next.
Mark,
Micro is a good choice. My Micro "Firefly" is in progress and I
have some recent photos posted athttp://www.ultranet.com/~djost/
Micro.htm
Here are some thoughts on justifying the cost.
spars = $100 (including epoxy glue and polyurethane)
plywood = $800 (I have spent $460 on 1/4" ply so far)
fir framing = $100 (this stuff is more expensive than I thought)
sails = $600? (I got mine from Stan for half of this)
motor = $750 for a brand new little tiny one
trailer = $1000 but you could beat this with some creativity and a
welder's torch
lead ballast = $250 (approximate)
total projected cost = $3300 save money on the motor, and trailer by
getting used and you could bring it down to $2000.

Justify to your wife by:
a. giving up a vice such as smoking or drinking $30 a week and you
could pay for the boat in 2 years.

b. stop buying those yachty magazines with the fiberglass clorox
bottle boats! at 4 magazines amortized over two years, there is
your
plywood.

c. tell her that it can be used as a hard shell camper for camping
and
that you plan to take her to some very nice place in the US. Tell
her
about all the money you will save on hotels and vacations!

d. promise to let her spend an equivalent amount of money on things
for her that you spend on the boat. (This always works in my house)
We call it the Cha-ching (sound of a cash register)effect.
Dude,
Get the Sailrite kit for the sails and a sewing machine from wal-mart.
Nothing to it! Lots easier than figuring out how to cut that mast for
the first time!
Josh Brooks
Pearl Harbor, HI


"john bell" <jmbel-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3809
> David,
>
> A few observations on how I propose to do things and what I think
they will cost (hopefully not too far off reality...):
>
> 1) Plywood: I'm using MDO fir, that is high quality signmakers
plywood with a heavy Kraft paper bonded to the outer surfaces with a
phenolic adhesive. This is the same stuff they make highway signs from.
It is available with the MDO face on one or both sides for ~$25 and
$35/sheet respectively in quantities >10 sheets. I'm going to use the
two sided stuff. Plywood bill looks like about $420 +tax. Good occume
ply would be more like $80/sheet + shipping for 9mm. The great thing
about MDO is that I will not need to sand, fair, or sheath the hull
with fiberglass. It's ready for paint straight form the factory. It
won't check either. MDO should do pretty well for resale, especially
compared to ACX. I will be placing the order this week.
>
> 2) Epoxy - West epoxy is great stuff, but too expensive. I've been
working on starting my own epoxy business, so this boat will be made
using my own glues. They'll be much less expensive than West and will
work just as well. In time, I'll be able to sell them to you for less,
too.
>
> 3) Trailer - I've got a trailer that can be modified for less than
$150 to fit a Micro. The modifications are a longer tongue and support
bunks.
>
> 4) Sails - I have not priced these yet, but $600 sounds about right.
I got my last sail form Bohndell in Maine and liked it very much.
Unless someone can convince me there is a better alternative, they'll
get another call.
>
> 5) Motor - Can you say yuloh? An outboard is no in the budget until
my wife says so. I think it will only take a couple of outings until it
gets force fitted into the budget. I'm thinking 3.5 HP.
>
> 6) Fasteners - I already bought a lot of the fasteners I needed for
another project since canceled. Stuff you've already got does not
count! <grin>
>
> Best,
>
> John Bell
> Kennesaw, GA
>jmbell@...
>http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Jost
> To:bolger@...
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 8:16 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Thinking Micro.../world's slowest boatbuilder
>
>
> john, for a good laugh and a look at the slowest built (still in
progress) Micro go to www.ultranet.com/~djost/micro.html. I am not
really that slow, but schedule, money, weather has limited my time on
task. FYI a gallon of west epoxy and hardener will run you close to
$90. The spars will cost @$60. not including tools. The sails will run
close to $600 and the trailer another $600. figure in a used motor 5hp
at another $600 and you are around $2500 for the boat. Plywood should
be about $650 if you go marine ply. about 300 if you use AC. there's
the rub. If you use AC instead of Marine, you have saved about $350. in
the long run including resale value I think it is worth it to spend the
extra money.
Pippo wrote;
<snip>
About the MOA, I agree in welcoming everybody, including Micro
Navigator Tuggers and Long Micro owners.
<snip>
Anybody volunteering to write down a charter text?
<end quote>

Hi All; Along with an earlier promise to return all MJ's to an upright
position, I now add, "Cold drinks and burgers for all!" I thank you, The
Snow Goose thanks you, and Muffin thanks you.
At this point I would like to volunteer for anything I can do to help
get the MOA underway. My first thoughts are;
1) I can compile a list of all interested potential members, just email
me your name, Micro type, its name, and any other information you think
relevant, and I will put the list together. <smuller@...> When
more is formalized with the MOA, I will be happy to turn the list over
to the proper parties.
2) If anyone that has anything that could of they feel should be
included into the charter, I would be willing to also compile those
thoughts for the members approval.
3) Since I have the time to invest, if there is any other grunt type
chore that I can do I will be more than happy to volunteer.
Waiting to be of service, Stan of the Micro Tugger, Snow Goose
List,

I am a former builder that still suffers from keel anxiety.

FWIW - If I were to build another Micro, I would build it with DOUBLE 1/2"
Yellow Pine (live in SE Texas) to be 1" thick.

Tim
Hi Peter - I'm just back from Rome where I gave a lecture at the
Geology Department, lots of students (poor them)!
Yes, also my plans (the key actually) mention double or triple bottoms.
The drawings definitely show 1/4" plywood everywhere, but my key
mentions, as I repeated elsewhere, either 1/4" or 3/8" plywood.
About the MOA, I agree in welcoming everybody, including Micro
Navigator Tuggers and Long Micro owners.
How do we start, Mr President? Anybody volunteering to write down a
charter text?
Best, Pippo

"peter lenihan" <ellengaes-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3836
> Hello Pippo,
> I have just dug up my old MICRO plans,and as I suspected,they do
> indeed say,"ALL PLYWOOD IN 1/4 X 4' X 8' SHEETS.Some builders may have
> an older set of plans that do not refer to the use of 3/8
> plywood.Also,on my plans,Mr.Bolger states that the bottom can be two
> lawyers of 1/4 inch to finish at 1/2 or even 3 layers to finish at
3/4.
> Thought you'd like to know.........
> Peter Lenihan
>
>
>
>
> "giuseppe 'pippo' bianco" <pippobianc-@...> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3798
> > Hi John - I'm wondering why many people (even illuminated ones, like
> > you, who decided to build Micro, the best boat in the world)
continue
> > to perseverate in saying that the Micro was designed just for 1/4"
> > plywood. Actually the plywood for Micro, as per Bolger's key, is
> > specified as either 1/4" or 3/8". So anybody using 3/8" (like you
and
> > me) are still in the specs.
> > Best, Pippo
> >
> >jmbel-@...wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3794
> > > I've just decided to go ahead and build a Micro myself. I'm trying
> to
> > remain in blissful ignorance about the costs, though. It's better
that
> > way. My boat is going to be built out of 3/8" MDO two-sided instead
of
> > the 1/4" specified.
> >
>
Hello Pippo,
I have just dug up my old MICRO plans,and as I suspected,they do
indeed say,"ALL PLYWOOD IN 1/4 X 4' X 8' SHEETS.Some builders may have
an older set of plans that do not refer to the use of 3/8
plywood.Also,on my plans,Mr.Bolger states that the bottom can be two
lawyers of 1/4 inch to finish at 1/2 or even 3 layers to finish at 3/4.
Thought you'd like to know.........
Peter Lenihan




"giuseppe 'pippo' bianco" <pippobianc-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3798
> Hi John - I'm wondering why many people (even illuminated ones, like
> you, who decided to build Micro, the best boat in the world) continue
> to perseverate in saying that the Micro was designed just for 1/4"
> plywood. Actually the plywood for Micro, as per Bolger's key, is
> specified as either 1/4" or 3/8". So anybody using 3/8" (like you and
> me) are still in the specs.
> Best, Pippo
>
>jmbel-@...wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3794
> > I've just decided to go ahead and build a Micro myself. I'm trying
to
> remain in blissful ignorance about the costs, though. It's better that
> way. My boat is going to be built out of 3/8" MDO two-sided instead of
> the 1/4" specified.
>
John, will you remove the finish layer from the areas where you will glue the sheets on the inside of the boat, so that glue or epoxy contacts the wood? I've been wondering about one sided MDO but I haven't got up the nerve to try it yet. Clyde Wisner

John Bell wrote:

That's because I've only perused the plans. I have not received them from
PCB&F yet. They will probably arrive this week while I'm out in Portland,
OR. I'm glad to hear that 3/8 is specified. It's going to be interesting
working with MDO, too. My fondest hope is that it will save me a lot of the
finish work. With MDO, it's supposedly OK to put a coat of epoxy on it, then
prime and paint. No tedious sanding and fairing needed.  I won't get the
boat complete in two weeks, but it should be a fast build.

Any Bolgerists in the Portland, OR area want to have beer tomorrow evening
(3/21)? I've got tomorrow afternoon free before I have to head down to
Albany. (800) 347-1542 x6016

Best,

John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco <pippobianco@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:27 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Thinking Micro...

> Hi John - I'm wondering why many people (even illuminated ones, like
> you, who decided to build Micro, the best boat in the world) continue
> to perseverate in saying that the Micro was designed just for 1/4"
> plywood. Actually the plywood for Micro, as per Bolger's key, is
> specified as either 1/4" or 3/8". So anybody using 3/8" (like you and
> me) are still in the specs.
> Best, Pippo
>
> jmbel-@... wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3794
> > I've just decided to go ahead and build a Micro myself. I'm trying to
> remain in blissful ignorance about the costs, though. It's better that
> way. My boat is going to be built out of 3/8" MDO two-sided instead of
> the 1/4" specified.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

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Hi All, Not to be negative, BUT, whether using 1/4" or 3/8", I would
certainly go with a double bottom of 1/4"! For the lasting ability as
well as the safety margin that it offers, it is more than worth it.
The only thing that I have run across that has given a micro owner a
bad feeling is if and when they decide to get rid of it, then life seems
to be full of, should-a's, could-a's and would-a's.
Stan SG, Where the weather is supposed to improve, Yeaaaaa
David,
 
A few observations on how I propose to do things and what I think they will cost (hopefully not too far off reality...):
 
1) Plywood: I'm using MDO fir, that is high quality signmakers plywood with a heavy Kraft paper bonded to the outer surfaces with a phenolic adhesive. This is the same stuff they make highway signs from. It is available with the MDO face on one or both sides for ~$25 and $35/sheet respectively in quantities >10 sheets. I'm going to use the two sided stuff. Plywood bill looks like about $420 +tax. Good occume ply would be more like $80/sheet + shipping for 9mm. The great thing about MDO is that I will not need to sand, fair, or sheath the hull with fiberglass. It's ready for paint straight form the factory. It won't check either. MDO should do pretty well for resale, especially compared to ACX.  I will be placing the order this week.
 
2) Epoxy - West epoxy is great stuff, but too expensive. I've been working on starting my own epoxy business, so this boat will be made using my own glues. They'll be much less expensive than West and will work just as well. In time, I'll be able to sell them to you for less, too.
 
3) Trailer - I've got a trailer that can be modified for less than $150 to fit a Micro. The modifications are a longer tongue and support bunks.
 
4) Sails - I have not priced these yet, but $600 sounds about right. I got my last sail form Bohndell in Maine and liked it very much. Unless someone can convince me there is a better alternative, they'll get another call.
 
5) Motor - Can you say yuloh? An outboard is no in the budget until my wife says so. I think it will only take a couple of outings until it gets force fitted into the budget. I'm thinking 3.5 HP.
 
6)  Fasteners - I already bought a lot of the fasteners I needed for another project since canceled. Stuff you've already got does not count! <grin>
 
Best,
 
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, March 20, 2000 8:16 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Thinking Micro.../world's slowest boatbuilder

john, for a good laugh and a look at the slowest built (still in progress) Micro go towww.ultranet.com/~djost/micro.html. I am not really that slow, but schedule, money, weather has limited my time on task. FYI a gallon of west epoxy and hardener will run you close to $90. The spars will cost @$60. not including tools. The sails will run close to $600 and the trailer another $600. figure in a used motor 5hp at another $600 and you are around $2500 for the boat. Plywood should be about $650 if you go marine ply. about 300 if you use AC. there's the rub. If you use AC instead of Marine, you have saved about $350. in the long run including resale value I think it is worth it to spend the extra money.
David,
 
A few observations on how I propose to do things and what I think they will cost (hopefully not too far off reality...):
 
1) Plywood: I'm using MDO fir, that is high quality signmakers plywood with a heavy Kraft paper bonded to the outer surfaces with a phenolic adhesive. This is the same stuff they make highway signs from. It is available with the MDO face on one or both sides for ~$25 and $35/sheet respectively in quantities >10 sheets. I'm going to use the two sided stuff. Plywood bill looks like about $420 +tax. Good occume ply would be more like $80/sheet + shipping for 9mm. The great thing about MDO is that I will not need to sand, fair, or sheath the hull with fiberglass. It's ready for paint straight form the factory. It won't check either. MDO should do pretty well for resale, especially compared to ACX.  I will be placing the order this week.
 
2) Epoxy - West epoxy is great stuff, but too expensive. I've been working on starting my own epoxy business, so this boat will be made using my own glues. They'll be much less expensive than West and will work just as well. In time, I'll be able to sell them to you for less, too.
 
3) Trailer - I've got a trailer that can be modified for less than $150 to fit a Micro. The modifications are a longer tongue and support bunks.
 
4) Sails - I have not priced these yet, but $600 sounds about right. I got my last sail form Bohndell in Maine and liked it very much. Unless someone can convince me there is a better alternative, they'll get another call.
 
5) Motor - Can you say yuloh? An outboard is no in the budget until my wife says so. I think it will only take a couple of outings until it gets force fitted into the budget. I'm thinking 3.5 HP.
 
6)  Fasteners - I already bought a lot of the fasteners I needed for another project since canceled. Stuff you've already got does not count! <grin>
 
Best,
 
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, March 20, 2000 8:16 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Thinking Micro.../world's slowest boatbuilder

john, for a good laugh and a look at the slowest built (still in progress) Micro go towww.ultranet.com/~djost/micro.html. I am not really that slow, but schedule, money, weather has limited my time on task. FYI a gallon of west epoxy and hardener will run you close to $90. The spars will cost @$60. not including tools. The sails will run close to $600 and the trailer another $600. figure in a used motor 5hp at another $600 and you are around $2500 for the boat. Plywood should be about $650 if you go marine ply. about 300 if you use AC. there's the rub. If you use AC instead of Marine, you have saved about $350. in the long run including resale value I think it is worth it to spend the extra money.
eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
john, for a good laugh and a look at the slowest built (still in progress) Micro go to www.ultranet.com/~djost/micro.html. I am not really that slow, but schedule, money, weather has limited my time on task. FYI a gallon of west epoxy and hardener will run you close to $90. The spars will cost @$60. not including tools. The sails will run close to $600 and the trailer another $600. figure in a used motor 5hp at another $600 and you are around $2500 for the boat. Plywood should be about $650 if you go marine ply. about 300 if you use AC. there's the rub. If you use AC instead of Marine, you have saved about $350. in the long run including resale value I think it is worth it to spend the extra money.
That's because I've only perused the plans. I have not received them from
PCB&F yet. They will probably arrive this week while I'm out in Portland,
OR. I'm glad to hear that 3/8 is specified. It's going to be interesting
working with MDO, too. My fondest hope is that it will save me a lot of the
finish work. With MDO, it's supposedly OK to put a coat of epoxy on it, then
prime and paint. No tedious sanding and fairing needed. I won't get the
boat complete in two weeks, but it should be a fast build.

Any Bolgerists in the Portland, OR area want to have beer tomorrow evening
(3/21)? I've got tomorrow afternoon free before I have to head down to
Albany. (800) 347-1542 x6016

Best,

John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com



----- Original Message -----
From: Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco <pippobianco@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:27 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Thinking Micro...


> Hi John - I'm wondering why many people (even illuminated ones, like
> you, who decided to build Micro, the best boat in the world) continue
> to perseverate in saying that the Micro was designed just for 1/4"
> plywood. Actually the plywood for Micro, as per Bolger's key, is
> specified as either 1/4" or 3/8". So anybody using 3/8" (like you and
> me) are still in the specs.
> Best, Pippo
>
>jmbel-@...wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3794
> > I've just decided to go ahead and build a Micro myself. I'm trying to
> remain in blissful ignorance about the costs, though. It's better that
> way. My boat is going to be built out of 3/8" MDO two-sided instead of
> the 1/4" specified.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/937/6/_/3457/_/953591289/
>
> eGroups.com Home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
Hi John - I'm wondering why many people (even illuminated ones, like
you, who decided to build Micro, the best boat in the world) continue
to perseverate in saying that the Micro was designed just for 1/4"
plywood. Actually the plywood for Micro, as per Bolger's key, is
specified as either 1/4" or 3/8". So anybody using 3/8" (like you and
me) are still in the specs.
Best, Pippo

jmbel-@...wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3794
> I've just decided to go ahead and build a Micro myself. I'm trying to
remain in blissful ignorance about the costs, though. It's better that
way. My boat is going to be built out of 3/8" MDO two-sided instead of
the 1/4" specified.
Hi Mark - welcome to the list and to the Micro Class Association (hey,
Microers, think about that!)

"mark paquette" <paquett-@...> wrote:
> Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time est.,
> would greatly help the cause...

Sooooo... my financial commitment is going to be something around 2000
US$ or Euros, give or take 20%, ready to sail, not including motor. If
you go the expensive route with Bruynzeel plywood, top of the line
hardware, fancy paints, exotic sails, sitka spruce spars, etc. you
might easily double that.
Building time: the late Elrow La Rowe estimated 150 to 300 hours. In my
case, I would tend to raise the lower limit by 100 hours and the higher
by 50 hours, so my guess is anything between 250 and 350 hours. This
depends less from skills than from building space and power tools
availability. If you have a fully equipped shop, lots of elbow room and
some woodworking availability, you might go back to Elrow estimates. I
remember that I read somewhere that our moderator, Gregg, built his
Micro in two weeks - but Gregg is the fastest Bolger boatbuilder in the
world, so don't take him as an example.
Good luck, Pippo
I've just decided to go ahead and build a Micro myself. I'm trying to remain in blissful ignorance about the costs, though. It's better that way. My boat is going to be built out of 3/8" MDO two-sided instead of the 1/4" specified. I've sourced the material locally for about $35/sheet. The plywood bill looks like about $500. I'll let you know about the other stuff as I move ahead.

John Bell in Georgia




bolger@egroups.comwrote:
> I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to the
water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12 designed by
Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.

Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the Micro.
I have a couple of question for the group.

First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design. Everything I
have
been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has anyone
out there
willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this boat?
(Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)

Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time est.,
would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking my
wife into
letting me start the next boat this summer, would be this "cause"...

Thank you...
Mark in MN

PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...


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I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to the
water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12 designed by
Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.

Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the Micro.
I have a couple of question for the group.

First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design. Everything I
have
been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has anyone
out there
willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this boat?
(Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)

Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time est.,
would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking my
wife into
letting me start the next boat this summer, would be this "cause"...

Thank you...
Mark in MN

PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
Hello to the Group.
I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can paint my first boat.
I built the MayFly12 designed by Jim Michalak and I can't wait to get
her into
the water. Builder her has been a BLAST!!!

For my next project I a thinking very seriously about the Mirco. I
love the
fact that it is self righting and seems to have a ton of room.
I have read alot of the web pages out there on the Micro and
I have yet to here anything bad about the design.
Has any one from the group heard of anything bad or had bad experiences.

Also if a few of you Micro builders would like to share time to build
and rough costs with me I would greatly appreciate it
have to talk the wife into letting me build another boat, she just
doesn't understand).

Mark in MN.