Re: Shoebox punt
> The outboard yawl would be used ifI tried using a Sabot as a yawl boat once when I was becalmed 5 nm
> becalmed, or getting in and out of
> marinas.
from Catalina Island. Even though there was no wind the ocean swell
caused havoc trying to keep the bow transom of the Sabot lined up and
pushing on the stern of the big boat.
I finally wound up towing the big boat with the Sabot, with my wife
at the helm of the big boat.
I put a 1.5 hp Tanaka (Japanese for "Cheap Crap")outboard on my
Tortoise by cutting a rectangular opening in the rear deck. That
worked, but I eventually float tested the engine in 1000 ft of water,
which floated about as well as it ran.
Reed
> Perhaps a nice scale model,with scale weights,might be worthI am barely serious about this idea, but being
> building just to see how the whole thing might work?
> Peter Lenihan
as I have a Micro Navigator hull *and* a
Tortoise hull, there is no reason but time
that I can't try a 100% scale model. <g>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
yawl boat when the mother ship is a fair deal larger then the yawl
boat and less sensitive to the placement of critical weights,in this
case,the crew :-)
Perhaps a nice scale model,with scale weights,might be worth
building just to see how the whole thing might work?
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> [Dreaming aloud.]Cool idea Bruce but......I think that Bolger usually calls for a
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/yawl.gif
yawl boat when the mother ship is a fair deal larger then the yawl
boat and less sensitive to the placement of critical weights,in this
case,the crew :-)
Perhaps a nice scale model,with scale weights,might be worth
building just to see how the whole thing might work?
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/dixtenn/dicksbox.jpg
Chris Stewart
>Another shoebox punt photo
> > Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?
>
> This isn't the same as hearing it from PCB himself, but there's a
> webpage with a nice little building and launching sequence I just
> came across via John Kohnen's Mother of All Maritime Links.
>
>http://pw2.netcom.com/~horse/shoebox.html
>
> All best,
> Garth
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/dixtenn/dicksbox.jpg
Chris Stewart
>Howard wrote:I recall:
> It's odd that Bolger doesn't acknowledge this,
Bolger does acknowledge it, though I forget exactly where,
but he wrote something to the effect that the shoebox
punt is the same [similar?] shape as the breakdown punt,
and it is 20 pounds lighter in weight, 60lbs versus 80lbs.
As far as I can tell from comparing the sketch and dimensions in
Wolfard's catalogue with the article in BWAOM, you are correct,
Bruce. It's odd that Bolger doesn't acknowledge this, even though he
analyses in some detail the design process and the design itself.
Possibly something to do with the ruptured commercial relationship
between him and Wolfard...
Howard
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Wolfard's catalogue with the article in BWAOM, you are correct,
Bruce. It's odd that Bolger doesn't acknowledge this, even though he
analyses in some detail the design process and the design itself.
Possibly something to do with the ruptured commercial relationship
between him and Wolfard...
Howard
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> I now strongly suspect that a 'shoebox punt'
> is identical to a 'breakdown punt' built in
> one piece.
It so happens that the same Wolfard catalogue that features the
Shoebox punt also presents Bolger's Sybil's Yawl, 7'6" x 3'1", a pram
with a flat (plywood?) bottom and lapstrake bilges and topsides. A 6
hp o/b is recommended for pushing a bigger boat. Wolfard says this
would be would be unsafe for non-pushing use and suggests 2 hp.
Howard
Shoebox punt also presents Bolger's Sybil's Yawl, 7'6" x 3'1", a pram
with a flat (plywood?) bottom and lapstrake bilges and topsides. A 6
hp o/b is recommended for pushing a bigger boat. Wolfard says this
would be would be unsafe for non-pushing use and suggests 2 hp.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> In the case of Micro Navigator, I think
> you would sail if there was any wind.
> The outboard yawl would be used if
> becalmed, or getting in and out of
> marinas. .
In the case of Micro Navigator, I think
you would sail if there was any wind.
The outboard yawl would be used if
becalmed, or getting in and out of
marinas. Mounting the outboard
directly on the Micro transom would
be simpler of course. But, the dual
use of having a yawl dingy tender,
and a swimming, fishing, platform
tagging along might be worthwhile.
This is what Bolger wrote of the yawl
boat he proposed for the unpowered
Barge Houseboat. I recall he also has
suggested an outboard yawl boat for
Birdwatcher, Volunteer, and
even Scow Schooner.
========quoted text below=====
[for Barge Houseboat]
For inland waters, any outboard utility
would get her along at good speed, either
towing from ahead, or for more precise
control, lashed up on one quarter. It
would be possible to design a dedicated
push boat with a semi-rigid hitch, to push
from straight behind. Such a boat could
be short, 8 feet or less, though a stubby
scow pusher wouldn't be so useful as a
boat in its own right. An extreme pusher,
say 4 feet long and 6 feet wide, would be a
buoyant and more or less flexible out-
board bracket which could be taken away
and stored after it had nudged the house-
boat into a slip.
======================
[for Scow Schooner]
No auxiliary engine is shown. An in-
board engine could be put either in the
cuddy or in the hold, but it would spoil
one or the other. An outboard could be
carried on a bracket, but I'd opt for a
yawlboat - a stiff tender with a big out-
board and heavy padding to lash up to the
stern or on either quarter. If the gear is
imaginatively set up, this will drive the
mother ship at least as well as a bracket
motor and is less likely to be alternately
swamped and pitched out of the water
because the small boat conforms to wave
shapes. It also encourages keeping an
able tender. A discount-store johnboat
would be very appropriate.
you would sail if there was any wind.
The outboard yawl would be used if
becalmed, or getting in and out of
marinas. Mounting the outboard
directly on the Micro transom would
be simpler of course. But, the dual
use of having a yawl dingy tender,
and a swimming, fishing, platform
tagging along might be worthwhile.
This is what Bolger wrote of the yawl
boat he proposed for the unpowered
Barge Houseboat. I recall he also has
suggested an outboard yawl boat for
Birdwatcher, Volunteer, and
even Scow Schooner.
========quoted text below=====
[for Barge Houseboat]
For inland waters, any outboard utility
would get her along at good speed, either
towing from ahead, or for more precise
control, lashed up on one quarter. It
would be possible to design a dedicated
push boat with a semi-rigid hitch, to push
from straight behind. Such a boat could
be short, 8 feet or less, though a stubby
scow pusher wouldn't be so useful as a
boat in its own right. An extreme pusher,
say 4 feet long and 6 feet wide, would be a
buoyant and more or less flexible out-
board bracket which could be taken away
and stored after it had nudged the house-
boat into a slip.
======================
[for Scow Schooner]
No auxiliary engine is shown. An in-
board engine could be put either in the
cuddy or in the hold, but it would spoil
one or the other. An outboard could be
carried on a bracket, but I'd opt for a
yawlboat - a stiff tender with a big out-
board and heavy padding to lash up to the
stern or on either quarter. If the gear is
imaginatively set up, this will drive the
mother ship at least as well as a bracket
motor and is less likely to be alternately
swamped and pitched out of the water
because the small boat conforms to wave
shapes. It also encourages keeping an
able tender. A discount-store johnboat
would be very appropriate.
That would work real well in and out of harbors and motoring around
protected waters. But i'd be scared to / defeats the point of the
nav. to go out/down there when it's foul out and you need to move
quick out of harms way(then again so does a big goofy balanced lug
sail). Wonder how much power a shoe box would take and would it
squat terribly trying to push a 1500lbs boat?
Now to be able to step the micro's mizzen on a shoe box......multi-
tasking simplicity at it's finest.
I've got a 2hp 4 stroke long shaft honda i'm not even sure if it
will be able to buck a swift tide with a headwind.......but then
again i've seen alot of micro pics with an electric trolling motor
on the transom. Still looking at putting birdwatcher style oar ports
on mine as i can't even get that thing started right now and i don't
know how to use my yuloh :)
Jason
Jim M. also has drawn plans for something called a
folderol.....sometype of folding dingy but i believe it uses a half
dozen hinges instead of tabs.?
protected waters. But i'd be scared to / defeats the point of the
nav. to go out/down there when it's foul out and you need to move
quick out of harms way(then again so does a big goofy balanced lug
sail). Wonder how much power a shoe box would take and would it
squat terribly trying to push a 1500lbs boat?
Now to be able to step the micro's mizzen on a shoe box......multi-
tasking simplicity at it's finest.
I've got a 2hp 4 stroke long shaft honda i'm not even sure if it
will be able to buck a swift tide with a headwind.......but then
again i've seen alot of micro pics with an electric trolling motor
on the transom. Still looking at putting birdwatcher style oar ports
on mine as i can't even get that thing started right now and i don't
know how to use my yuloh :)
Jason
Jim M. also has drawn plans for something called a
folderol.....sometype of folding dingy but i believe it uses a half
dozen hinges instead of tabs.?
>http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htmThat is a clever idea, though the writeup
describes it as 'best suited for small people
or children', and I need more capacity.
[Dreaming aloud.]
http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/yawl.gif
Bolger writes repeatedly of the virtues
of using a 'yawl boat' as the motor
mount. A Tortoise, [or shoebox] punt with
a small outboard motor, 'pin' connected to
the transom of a Micro is another option
that could work.
Actually, a Tortoise could be slung on
top of the Micro afterdeck too. It would
require a transom outboard motor mount
board fitted to Tortoise.
This would have the advantage of
moving the noise and carbon monoxide
away from the cabin. The Tortoise
would serve as a sort of pseudo cockpit
for the cockpitless Micro Navigator, too.
The motorwell in the Micro Navigator
afterdeck could be fitted with a cover, giving
it more usable space too.
Bruce-
Have you thought about one of these for your navigator?
http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htm
I think this is what i'm going to do as it will stow below deck or
unobtrusively on the cabin top. My boat will be moored 200 yards off
shore for a week or two at a time and this thing can fit in my
little station wagon. I'd hate to tow a sea anchor behind a 15' boat.
jason
Have you thought about one of these for your navigator?
http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htm
I think this is what i'm going to do as it will stow below deck or
unobtrusively on the cabin top. My boat will be moored 200 yards off
shore for a week or two at a time and this thing can fit in my
little station wagon. I'd hate to tow a sea anchor behind a 15' boat.
jason
> Could be. I dug out my Shoebox plans, it's designMy guess is that Bolger would still sell these
> number 539
plans cheap, though the cheapest plan sets
he sells now are $25, I think.
Thanks, I added this design to our database too.
Could be. I dug out my Shoebox plans, it's design
number 539, but not dated.... Don't remember when I
bought the plans, I built it in '93. Attached was a
note, a reply from Bolger to my inquiry about Shoebox
plans costs. --- $5. post paid..... Ah, those were the
days...
Rick
number 539, but not dated.... Don't remember when I
bought the plans, I built it in '93. Attached was a
note, a reply from Bolger to my inquiry about Shoebox
plans costs. --- $5. post paid..... Ah, those were the
days...
Rick
>
> I now strongly suspect that a 'shoebox punt'
> is identical to a 'breakdown punt' built in
> one piece.
>
> Bolger's own commentary withThe SBJ #65 article, titled 'nesting punt' and
> dimensions were shown in SBJ #65. (Bruce?)
> Mark
described by Bolger as 'breakdown nesting
dingy', was reprinted, in whole, as Chapter 1
'Breakdown Punt' the book _Boats With an
Open Mind_.
I now strongly suspect that a 'shoebox punt'
is identical to a 'breakdown punt' built in
one piece.
Bolger's own commentary with dimensions were shown in SBJ #65. (Bruce?)
Mark
Howard Stephenson wrote:
Mark
Howard Stephenson wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> For once I could find something in my "library". Bernie's 1990
> catalogue was on the the floor within 2 metres of my chair, lying
> face down among scattered lever-arch files, bank statements, ancient
> floppy discs, an old printer etc. What a mess, and it's not even tax
> time!
>
> There is a full page on Shoebox, capacity 2 adults, only 5'6" x 3'3"
> and needing two sheets of ply to build. Wolfard doesn't quote Bolger
> but a write-up by Petre Spectre in WoodenBoat's Sept./Oct. '89 issue.
>
> Amazingly, I can even find Spectre's original article, not on the
> floor, but up on a shelf in a bound volume.
>
> Howard
Ron,
For once I could find something in my "library". Bernie's 1990
catalogue was on the the floor within 2 metres of my chair, lying
face down among scattered lever-arch files, bank statements, ancient
floppy discs, an old printer etc. What a mess, and it's not even tax
time!
There is a full page on Shoebox, capacity 2 adults, only 5'6" x 3'3"
and needing two sheets of ply to build. Wolfard doesn't quote Bolger
but a write-up by Petre Spectre in WoodenBoat's Sept./Oct. '89 issue.
Amazingly, I can even find Spectre's original article, not on the
floor, but up on a shelf in a bound volume.
Howard
For once I could find something in my "library". Bernie's 1990
catalogue was on the the floor within 2 metres of my chair, lying
face down among scattered lever-arch files, bank statements, ancient
floppy discs, an old printer etc. What a mess, and it's not even tax
time!
There is a full page on Shoebox, capacity 2 adults, only 5'6" x 3'3"
and needing two sheets of ply to build. Wolfard doesn't quote Bolger
but a write-up by Petre Spectre in WoodenBoat's Sept./Oct. '89 issue.
Amazingly, I can even find Spectre's original article, not on the
floor, but up on a shelf in a bound volume.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ronschwiesow" <nanron62@m...> wrote:
> Although I'm away from my "library" at the moment, I believe it has
a
> page in the design catalog that Bernie Wolfard sold a few years
ago.
> That's where the picture of Bolger rowing one is as well. Bolger's
> writeup is delightful. Something about real manly tenders like
> Shoebox having names like "Buster" and "Crank" instead
> of "Twinklepink," suited to pretty tenders.
> I built a Shoebox and used it as a tender.Do you remember where you found the plans?
> Reed
I am beginning to think that Shoebox is simply
a punt built to the dimensions of 'Breakdown
Punt' but built as 'one piece' and not three.
>With two people in it the transomThe plans for Breakdown Punt have a
> was pushing water when I rowed.
optional 'dotted line' for a bow fairing to
solve this problem.
>built a TortoiseI am sure Tortoise is a better choice,
*if* you have room to store it.
What I am thinking about is a 'minimum'
punt/tender to lay across the afterdeck
of my Micro Navigator, while moored in
a 'pay by the foot' slip, but to tow around
while cruising.
The original AS-29 only had room for a
Breakdown Punt, but the new version
moves the forward hatch forward to make
room for a Tortoise.
Although I'm away from my "library" at the moment, I believe it has a
page in the design catalog that Bernie Wolfard sold a few years ago.
That's where the picture of Bolger rowing one is as well. Bolger's
writeup is delightful. Something about real manly tenders like
Shoebox having names like "Buster" and "Crank" instead
of "Twinklepink," suited to pretty tenders.
Ron, who took the middle ground building a Nymph, a beautifully
logical, but not "pretty," tender.
page in the design catalog that Bernie Wolfard sold a few years ago.
That's where the picture of Bolger rowing one is as well. Bolger's
writeup is delightful. Something about real manly tenders like
Shoebox having names like "Buster" and "Crank" instead
of "Twinklepink," suited to pretty tenders.
Ron, who took the middle ground building a Nymph, a beautifully
logical, but not "pretty," tender.
>
> Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?
I built a Shoebox and used it as a tender. It worked up to a point.
I could climb back into it from the water, over the side, and only
took on a couple of cups of water. With two people in it the transom
was pushing water when I rowed. I tried to put a sail on it, but
that didn't work. I took it apart and built a Tortoise that I used
as a tender..and that worked well.
Reed
I could climb back into it from the water, over the side, and only
took on a couple of cups of water. With two people in it the transom
was pushing water when I rowed. I tried to put a sail on it, but
that didn't work. I took it apart and built a Tortoise that I used
as a tender..and that worked well.
Reed
I built one a long time ago. Had great fun with it
and my then 4 year old son at the summer lake. Older
kids in the family and their friends used it daily all
summer long as an unsinkable swim float,
diving/platform, King of the Hill- "I dare you to
knock me off of it" platform. More than once it was
left to drift around the lake at the wind's will. Left
out in the snow all winter it was ready for fun the
next summer until and idiot uncle took an axe to it
thinking it was some weird abandon sandbox. It never
did get used as designed, a minimum ship to shore
dinghy... I believe it's shown as the on deck tender
for AS-29. Somewhere I have an old photo of Bolger
himself in a Shoebox demonstrating what he said was
the proper short, choppy oar strokes that are best to
move a small boxy dinghy like this.
Rick
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
and my then 4 year old son at the summer lake. Older
kids in the family and their friends used it daily all
summer long as an unsinkable swim float,
diving/platform, King of the Hill- "I dare you to
knock me off of it" platform. More than once it was
left to drift around the lake at the wind's will. Left
out in the snow all winter it was ready for fun the
next summer until and idiot uncle took an axe to it
thinking it was some weird abandon sandbox. It never
did get used as designed, a minimum ship to shore
dinghy... I believe it's shown as the on deck tender
for AS-29. Somewhere I have an old photo of Bolger
himself in a Shoebox demonstrating what he said was
the proper short, choppy oar strokes that are best to
move a small boxy dinghy like this.
Rick
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
>
> > Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?
>
> This isn't the same as hearing it from PCB himself,
> but there's a
> webpage with a nice little building and launching
> sequence I just
> came across via John Kohnen's Mother of All Maritime
> Links.
>
>http://pw2.netcom.com/~horse/shoebox.html
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
>
> Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?This isn't the same as hearing it from PCB himself, but there's a
webpage with a nice little building and launching sequence I just
came across via John Kohnen's Mother of All Maritime Links.
http://pw2.netcom.com/~horse/shoebox.html
All best,
Garth
the closest I know of is Tortoise (which was originally yo be named "sandbox"), Chapter 1 of 30 Odd Boats, but I don't hava a list of all PCB's designs.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From:bruce@...
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:24 PM
Subject: [bolger] Shoebox punt
Bolger makes many references to his "Shoebox Punt"
but the boat is not in our database. He also
writes that it is similar to a Breakdown Punt,
from Small Boat Journal and BWAOM.
Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger makes many references to his "Shoebox Punt"
but the boat is not in our database. He also
writes that it is similar to a Breakdown Punt,
from Small Boat Journal and BWAOM.
Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?
but the boat is not in our database. He also
writes that it is similar to a Breakdown Punt,
from Small Boat Journal and BWAOM.
Where has the Shoebox Punt been written about?