Re: [bolger] Question about the Scooner...
I have a "Scooner"
Reasons it might be a good idea:
1) Wouldn't cost must to try
2) Easily reversible
3) Might help a little
Reason it might not be such a good idea:
1) The board is a bitch to handle one-handed, even without additional
weight.
2) You'll capsize anyway. Either way you'd have to make an effort to
turn turtle.
3) Based on my experiences with live ballast, I don't think it would
really start to make a difference until you had 300-400 lbs at the
bottom of the board. (If I liked working with lead, I might try this.)
YIBB,
David
Reasons it might be a good idea:
1) Wouldn't cost must to try
2) Easily reversible
3) Might help a little
Reason it might not be such a good idea:
1) The board is a bitch to handle one-handed, even without additional
weight.
2) You'll capsize anyway. Either way you'd have to make an effort to
turn turtle.
3) Based on my experiences with live ballast, I don't think it would
really start to make a difference until you had 300-400 lbs at the
bottom of the board. (If I liked working with lead, I might try this.)
YIBB,
David
On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 04:13 PM, Gabriel K. McAtee wrote:
> Question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than I...
>
> In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a fairly
> large
> chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting (in
> theory,
> anyway!).
>
> Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot light
> schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more
> user-friendly for
> those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to rig
> one up
> for single-handing?
>
> tx,
> Gabe
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
I single handed my Scooner in light air--up to around 7-8mph. Above that, you need increased crew weight to keep the boat flat or even right side up. I have no idea what a Folding Schooner might require.
My Scooners's jib was self tending, and I could sheet both the fore and main single handed in light air.
John T
My Scooners's jib was self tending, and I could sheet both the fore and main single handed in light air.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: rogerleroy
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:11 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Question about the Scooner...
I don't know about foils but I hear that the Light Schooner is a
kind of a hot rod... not very well suited for single handed sail...
Any thoughts on that from anyone?
I'm building a folding schooner and decided to go with the bigger
sail plan right from the plans instead of the LS which is more of a
bear to trailer around...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> When I saw the sketches for the His and Hers Schooner, I
immediately
> thought that the lead filled daggerboard would be a big pain to
move
> around. It occured to me that you could make a real foil section,
say a
> NACA 012, to make room for some tubes or vertical bulkheads so you
could
> have the lead in separate pieces to be slipped in and captured by
a plug
> so you wouldn't have to carry more than, say 35 lbs of lead at one
time.
> A real foil section ought to add to the performance if shaped
well.
> Examine the shape of the rudders on a Hobie. I'll bet this could
work on
> a Light Schooner as well. Maybe even a NACA 015 could work as
well, to
> give more room. And if you really did your homework I bet you'd
find
> that the NACA foil could carry more lift so that it could be made
> smaller, assuming there was room for the lead. As I recall, the
foil in
> the sketch looked like a laminar section, which would be
unsuitable and
> maybe low lift as well. (You can't have laminar flow if you've got
> roughness, scratches, dents, a little seaweed, etc.)
>
> >Gabriel K. McAtee wrpte"
> >Question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than I...
> >
> >In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a
fairly large
> >chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting
(in theory,
> >anyway!).
> >
> >Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot
light
> >schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more user-
friendly for
> >those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to
rig one up
> >for single-handing?
> >
> >tx,
> > Gabe
> >
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know about foils but I hear that the Light Schooner is a
kind of a hot rod... not very well suited for single handed sail...
Any thoughts on that from anyone?
I'm building a folding schooner and decided to go with the bigger
sail plan right from the plans instead of the LS which is more of a
bear to trailer around...
kind of a hot rod... not very well suited for single handed sail...
Any thoughts on that from anyone?
I'm building a folding schooner and decided to go with the bigger
sail plan right from the plans instead of the LS which is more of a
bear to trailer around...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> When I saw the sketches for the His and Hers Schooner, I
immediately
> thought that the lead filled daggerboard would be a big pain to
move
> around. It occured to me that you could make a real foil section,
say a
> NACA 012, to make room for some tubes or vertical bulkheads so you
could
> have the lead in separate pieces to be slipped in and captured by
a plug
> so you wouldn't have to carry more than, say 35 lbs of lead at one
time.
> A real foil section ought to add to the performance if shaped
well.
> Examine the shape of the rudders on a Hobie. I'll bet this could
work on
> a Light Schooner as well. Maybe even a NACA 015 could work as
well, to
> give more room. And if you really did your homework I bet you'd
find
> that the NACA foil could carry more lift so that it could be made
> smaller, assuming there was room for the lead. As I recall, the
foil in
> the sketch looked like a laminar section, which would be
unsuitable and
> maybe low lift as well. (You can't have laminar flow if you've got
> roughness, scratches, dents, a little seaweed, etc.)
>
> >Gabriel K. McAtee wrpte"
> >Question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than I...
> >
> >In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a
fairly large
> >chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting
(in theory,
> >anyway!).
> >
> >Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot
light
> >schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more user-
friendly for
> >those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to
rig one up
> >for single-handing?
> >
> >tx,
> > Gabe
> >
Anything is possible, but...Putting enough lead in the bottom of Scooner's daggerboard would make raising and lowering extremely difficult. I think you would have to re-engineer the daggerboard trunk and set up some kind of mechanical device to hoist the DB. Perhaps putting teeth on one edge of the DB to engage a screw jack? It would all go to hell if you ran aground...
I never sailed my Scooner in heavy air, but found stability in the light to moderate stuff to be pretty good. Could be you're trying to address aproblem that doesn't really exist.
John T
I never sailed my Scooner in heavy air, but found stability in the light to moderate stuff to be pretty good. Could be you're trying to address aproblem that doesn't really exist.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Gabriel K. McAtee
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 4:13 PM
Subject: [bolger] Question about the Scooner...
Question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than I...
In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a fairly large
chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting (in theory,
anyway!).
Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot light
schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more user-friendly for
those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to rig one up
for single-handing?
tx,
Gabe
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
times and treat it as a retractable keel rather than a removable
daggerboard. I've already added enough insulation and abrasion
resistance that the boat isn't readily hand-carryable by two any more
anyway, and I only have the one boat rather than two, so hand-carrying
the hull like a Laser isn't so important to me.
for a refit for some future year. I'd probably still just make a
fixed casting by melting down the old one from the existing keel.
(I'll be pouring that this weekend.)
If I'm replacing the foils, I'm tempted to steal a page from the
Insolent 60 and replace the rudder with a shallower one with an end
plate, and possibly a shorter retaining cartridge. That would let me
add a "half-retracted" position for the daggerboard, and give me some
maneuvering ability in water shallower than 3 feet.
> When I saw the sketches for the His and Hers Schooner, I immediatelyMy plan for _Shrike_ is to leave the daggerboard in the trunk at all
> thought that the lead filled daggerboard would be a big pain to move
> around.
times and treat it as a retractable keel rather than a removable
daggerboard. I've already added enough insulation and abrasion
resistance that the boat isn't readily hand-carryable by two any more
anyway, and I only have the one boat rather than two, so hand-carrying
the hull like a Laser isn't so important to me.
> It occured to me that you could make a real foil section, say aI don't have time to do this before launching, but I'll consider it
> NACA 012,
for a refit for some future year. I'd probably still just make a
fixed casting by melting down the old one from the existing keel.
(I'll be pouring that this weekend.)
If I'm replacing the foils, I'm tempted to steal a page from the
Insolent 60 and replace the rudder with a shallower one with an end
plate, and possibly a shorter retaining cartridge. That would let me
add a "half-retracted" position for the daggerboard, and give me some
maneuvering ability in water shallower than 3 feet.
When I saw the sketches for the His and Hers Schooner, I immediately
thought that the lead filled daggerboard would be a big pain to move
around. It occured to me that you could make a real foil section, say a
NACA 012, to make room for some tubes or vertical bulkheads so you could
have the lead in separate pieces to be slipped in and captured by a plug
so you wouldn't have to carry more than, say 35 lbs of lead at one time.
A real foil section ought to add to the performance if shaped well.
Examine the shape of the rudders on a Hobie. I'll bet this could work on
a Light Schooner as well. Maybe even a NACA 015 could work as well, to
give more room. And if you really did your homework I bet you'd find
that the NACA foil could carry more lift so that it could be made
smaller, assuming there was room for the lead. As I recall, the foil in
the sketch looked like a laminar section, which would be unsuitable and
maybe low lift as well. (You can't have laminar flow if you've got
roughness, scratches, dents, a little seaweed, etc.)
thought that the lead filled daggerboard would be a big pain to move
around. It occured to me that you could make a real foil section, say a
NACA 012, to make room for some tubes or vertical bulkheads so you could
have the lead in separate pieces to be slipped in and captured by a plug
so you wouldn't have to carry more than, say 35 lbs of lead at one time.
A real foil section ought to add to the performance if shaped well.
Examine the shape of the rudders on a Hobie. I'll bet this could work on
a Light Schooner as well. Maybe even a NACA 015 could work as well, to
give more room. And if you really did your homework I bet you'd find
that the NACA foil could carry more lift so that it could be made
smaller, assuming there was room for the lead. As I recall, the foil in
the sketch looked like a laminar section, which would be unsuitable and
maybe low lift as well. (You can't have laminar flow if you've got
roughness, scratches, dents, a little seaweed, etc.)
>Gabriel K. McAtee wrpte"
>Question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than I...
>
>In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a fairly large
>chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting (in theory,
>anyway!).
>
>Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot light
>schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more user-friendly for
>those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to rig one up
>for single-handing?
>
>tx,
> Gabe
>
Question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than I...
In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a fairly large
chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting (in theory,
anyway!).
Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot light
schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more user-friendly for
those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to rig one up
for single-handing?
tx,
Gabe
In the "His and Hers Schooners" (BWAOM), the daggerboard has a fairly large
chunk of lead in it to stiffen it up and make it self-righting (in theory,
anyway!).
Is there any way that this couldn't be done with the 23 1/2 foot light
schooner, otherwise known as the "scooner" to make it more user-friendly for
those of us who aren't sailing experts, or who want to attempt to rig one up
for single-handing?
tx,
Gabe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...>
> If you built a Gull out of 1/2 inch ply, you'd have the same concern
> with one of those. A Sunfish is pretty heavy, as I recall.
140 lbs is(was?) the "class weight;" i.e., the minimum. I don't know if
that included spars, sails, etc. Of course, if you'd cracked the transom
with the old style rudder fitting so the inside was damp, then you were
somewhat heavier. (I finished one race with the deck awash before I figured
out there were cracks in the daggerboard case as well as the transom.)
I would think that a five foot hunk of 3" Sched. 40 PVC would work????
Any idea where I should look for mechanical specs other than temperature and
pressure (piping) uses? I'm thinking of using a 3' piece of 1.8" OD stuff
for a rudder post on the Chebacco. The design calls for 2" OD SS, but that
is PRICEY! The loading should be purely torsion.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
>PVC would be too floppy. My folks used to have something like that. Kind
>
>Roger Derby wrote:
>
>I remember seeing an article suggesting that a vertical piece of pipe (PVC?)
>on the trailer hitch with a clamp for the transom made it easy. (Get the
>stern up, then swivel the bow up and onto the racks.
>
of clunky. Don't remember how it worked on our large glass square stern
canoe. The gadget itself was heavy.
>If you built a Gull out of 1/2 inch ply, you'd have the same concern
>The one time I tried the Sunfish on a roof rack, the part that threatened my
>spine was bending over the front fenders and trying to lift the bow. A
>smaller car might have helped. Trailers are cheap compared to vertebrae.
>
with one of those. A Sunfish is pretty heavy, as I recall. Gull is
awkward but not all that heavy in 1/4 ply.
Just got back from a short stay in Gloucester, on Rocky Neck. There was
a Gull just sitting on a dry out mooring in the bay. Owner complained to
me that he couldn't make it go with 2 people, but he didn't have the 2nd
set of locks on it. Will tell him if I see him next time I'm up there.
That's on the south side of Rocky Neck. On the north side, on a dry out
floating dock, there was an unfamiliar sharpy, green, maybe 20 feet
long. Kind of neat looking. Anyone know what it is? Has a tiny outboard
in a well, stored down. Don't know how it stays alive. Otherwise a
pretty neat looking boat. And various dories to be seen here and there.
>
>Roger
>derbyrm@...
>derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
>
Todd-
Where's your Micro? Tell me more about it.
Where's your Micro? Tell me more about it.
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:06:09 -0000, you wrote:
>
> Yeah get lots pictures...........
>
> Anyone want a micro cheap? $1,250. US with trailer no motor?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats.
<Albert Schweitzer>
I remember seeing an article suggesting that a vertical piece of pipe (PVC?)
on the trailer hitch with a clamp for the transom made it easy. (Get the
stern up, then swivel the bow up and onto the racks.
The one time I tried the Sunfish on a roof rack, the part that threatened my
spine was bending over the front fenders and trying to lift the bow. A
smaller car might have helped. Trailers are cheap compared to vertebrae.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
on the trailer hitch with a clamp for the transom made it easy. (Get the
stern up, then swivel the bow up and onto the racks.
The one time I tried the Sunfish on a roof rack, the part that threatened my
spine was bending over the front fenders and trying to lift the bow. A
smaller car might have helped. Trailers are cheap compared to vertebrae.
Roger
derbyrm@...
derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...>
> It is kind of awkward, isn't it? I bet if you brainstormed for an hour,
> you could figure out a way to do it without straining, tho maybe you
> would have to build a gadget or two. For instance, you might put some
> kind of crosspiece on the stern to keep it upside down and act as a
> skid. Then you could add a side extension to the roof rack, lift the bow
> up onto it, then go to the stern and slide forward and lift to get that
> end on. Then go back and slide bow sideways over the car. You'd have to
> remember to remove the extension unless you get points for knocking off
> cyclists. Might be a good thing to make some kind of platform to raise
> the boat just a bit so the bow blocks less vision. It's a nice boat.
>
> Sometimes I think about a dory, but I can't afford decent wood right
> now, and that sheer probably wouldn't work so well on the roof of a
> Saturn unless I carried it right side up. (The Saturn is great for boats
> without much curve in the sheer. Hardly budges in gusty crosswind with
> Brick on top.) OTOH, you have to get under the car to find front tie
points.
>
> >"Susan Davis wrote:
> >--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> >
> >>> How much did that Gull weigh? I am thinking if it were light enough
> >>> I could car top it.
> >>
> >She's a mean thing to car top. She just fits atop my Aztek upside
> >down, but she's a real bear to heave up there, especially for two
> >women. We haven't tried it since our last outing on the canal late
> >last September; we've been wating for _Shrike_'s trailer to be
> >finished so we can use that instead.
> >
> >--
> >Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I saw a glass sharpie at the local boat launch last year or so, even tho
it's only a river, sorta. I don't recall if it was for sale, and maybe
it was only 18 feet or so. Owner was on this list at the time, not sure
I recall his name. Probably on my hard drive someplace if not before the
big crash. Boat ramp now undergoing interminable (6 months maybe)
repairs. Not sure why a manufacturer would make a glass sharpie, at
least one made in a mold with no core.
it's only a river, sorta. I don't recall if it was for sale, and maybe
it was only 18 feet or so. Owner was on this list at the time, not sure
I recall his name. Probably on my hard drive someplace if not before the
big crash. Boat ramp now undergoing interminable (6 months maybe)
repairs. Not sure why a manufacturer would make a glass sharpie, at
least one made in a mold with no core.
>craig o'donnell wrote:
>
>
>>>In the middle gets a little sketchy. There are lots of 20-30
>>>foot sailboats lying about, there owners just wishing someone would
>>>take them off their hands.
>>
>>
>
>Yes; but how many are sharpies? <heh heh heh> Or schooners? <chuckle>
>
It is kind of awkward, isn't it? I bet if you brainstormed for an hour,
you could figure out a way to do it without straining, tho maybe you
would have to build a gadget or two. For instance, you might put some
kind of crosspiece on the stern to keep it upside down and act as a
skid. Then you could add a side extension to the roof rack, lift the bow
up onto it, then go to the stern and slide forward and lift to get that
end on. Then go back and slide bow sideways over the car. You'd have to
remember to remove the extension unless you get points for knocking off
cyclists. Might be a good thing to make some kind of platform to raise
the boat just a bit so the bow blocks less vision. It's a nice boat.
Sometimes I think about a dory, but I can't afford decent wood right
now, and that sheer probably wouldn't work so well on the roof of a
Saturn unless I carried it right side up. (The Saturn is great for boats
without much curve in the sheer. Hardly budges in gusty crosswind with
Brick on top.) OTOH, you have to get under the car to find front tie points.
you could figure out a way to do it without straining, tho maybe you
would have to build a gadget or two. For instance, you might put some
kind of crosspiece on the stern to keep it upside down and act as a
skid. Then you could add a side extension to the roof rack, lift the bow
up onto it, then go to the stern and slide forward and lift to get that
end on. Then go back and slide bow sideways over the car. You'd have to
remember to remove the extension unless you get points for knocking off
cyclists. Might be a good thing to make some kind of platform to raise
the boat just a bit so the bow blocks less vision. It's a nice boat.
Sometimes I think about a dory, but I can't afford decent wood right
now, and that sheer probably wouldn't work so well on the roof of a
Saturn unless I carried it right side up. (The Saturn is great for boats
without much curve in the sheer. Hardly budges in gusty crosswind with
Brick on top.) OTOH, you have to get under the car to find front tie points.
>"Susan Davis wrote:
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> How much did that Gull weigh? I am thinking if it were light enough
>>> I could car top it.
>>
>>
>
>She's a mean thing to car top. She just fits atop my Aztek upside
>down, but she's a real bear to heave up there, especially for two
>women. We haven't tried it since our last outing on the canal late
>last September; we've been wating for _Shrike_'s trailer to be
>finished so we can use that instead.
>
>--
>Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
Which Bay?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I am running out of excuses not to launch.
> >
>
> And..... you are now begining the best two months of
> sailing weather on the Bay......
>
> So....... when's launching day?
>
> Rick
Where? Condition? Sails?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd" <ktsrfer@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:06 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Navigator...
>
> Yeah get lots pictures...........
>
> Anyone want a micro cheap? $1,250. US with trailer no motor?
>
> Todd
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
> wrote:
> > Whooooo Hooooo!
> > PictuRes! PiCtURES!
> > Jason still languishing over the keel
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yeah get lots pictures...........
Anyone want a micro cheap? $1,250. US with trailer no motor?
Todd
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Anyone want a micro cheap? $1,250. US with trailer no motor?
Todd
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> Whooooo Hooooo!
> PictuRes! PiCtURES!
> Jason still languishing over the keel
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
down, but she's a real bear to heave up there, especially for two
women. We haven't tried it since our last outing on the canal late
last September; we've been wating for _Shrike_'s trailer to be
finished so we can use that instead.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>She's a mean thing to car top. She just fits atop my Aztek upside
> How much did that Gull weigh? I am thinking if it were light enough
> I could car top it.
down, but she's a real bear to heave up there, especially for two
women. We haven't tried it since our last outing on the canal late
last September; we've been wating for _Shrike_'s trailer to be
finished so we can use that instead.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
sailing weather on the Bay......
So....... when's launching day?
Rick
>And..... you are now begining the best two months of
> I am running out of excuses not to launch.
>
sailing weather on the Bay......
So....... when's launching day?
Rick
Yeah , I'ld like to see pics of her also.....
Whooooo Hooooo!
PictuRes! PiCtURES!
Jason still languishing over the keel
PictuRes! PiCtURES!
Jason still languishing over the keel
Another milestone, very deliberate pace.
I mailed away for my 'title' , hull number and registration sticker last week.
Today, I bought a used 4 stroke long shaft 10 HP Honda outboard,
whew!, that was the biggest single expense yet.
I still need to rework the bunk on my trailer,
hook up the running lights to the battery bank,
run the mizzen and batten sheets,
and...
I am running out of excuses not to launch.
I mailed away for my 'title' , hull number and registration sticker last week.
Today, I bought a used 4 stroke long shaft 10 HP Honda outboard,
whew!, that was the biggest single expense yet.
I still need to rework the bunk on my trailer,
hook up the running lights to the battery bank,
run the mizzen and batten sheets,
and...
I am running out of excuses not to launch.
I cartop my Gull (1/4 luan, 3.6 oz cloth) singlehanded. The weigh is
not an issue (I'd guess the whole thing weight 50-75 pounds.
The rocker might be, depending on how your car and roof rack
arrangement.
The thing that gives me the most trouble is wind. I'm sure one of these
days it will cause me to put out my windshield.
YIBB,
David
not an issue (I'd guess the whole thing weight 50-75 pounds.
The rocker might be, depending on how your car and roof rack
arrangement.
The thing that gives me the most trouble is wind. I'm sure one of these
days it will cause me to put out my windshield.
YIBB,
David
On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 11:28 AM, dnjost wrote:
> Sue -
>
> How much did that Gull weigh? I am thinking if it were light enough
> I could car top it.
Sue -
How much did that Gull weigh? I am thinking if it were light enough
I could car top it.
David Jost
How much did that Gull weigh? I am thinking if it were light enough
I could car top it.
David Jost
Hummm...boat building and it's cost. I've built my share of boats as many of you have and I too could probably buy used for the same price. My quandary is that I don't want a boat like everyone else so maybe that means I'm forced to build. Yes, that's the proper way to explain it all to my wife!
Anyway, I'm putting the finishing touches on my Sneakeasy this week and after an inspection by the State for my hull id number I'm going to launch. I can say with accuracy I'll have $2800 in my boat including the custom trailer I built. I could find a power boat for under $3000 but it would probably be well used but most likely have the same life span as the Sneakeasy. But, would I have a unique inboard power boat with a kitchen rudder? I'm sure my Sneakeasy will be a one of a kind in that aspect. I get people driving by and stopping just to look and it'll only get worse when I launch. Most of you have experienced the pure joy of people giving you the thumbs when your out on the water. I don't build show stoppers and my work probably comes in closer to a work boat style finish, but it still gets peoples attention.
Saving money is at best a lucky shot depending on the project. Getting your money back trying to sell a home built is just as impossible. It's the pride of ownership that's the key.
That's the true reason I build boats.
Jeff
Anyway, I'm putting the finishing touches on my Sneakeasy this week and after an inspection by the State for my hull id number I'm going to launch. I can say with accuracy I'll have $2800 in my boat including the custom trailer I built. I could find a power boat for under $3000 but it would probably be well used but most likely have the same life span as the Sneakeasy. But, would I have a unique inboard power boat with a kitchen rudder? I'm sure my Sneakeasy will be a one of a kind in that aspect. I get people driving by and stopping just to look and it'll only get worse when I launch. Most of you have experienced the pure joy of people giving you the thumbs when your out on the water. I don't build show stoppers and my work probably comes in closer to a work boat style finish, but it still gets peoples attention.
Saving money is at best a lucky shot depending on the project. Getting your money back trying to sell a home built is just as impossible. It's the pride of ownership that's the key.
That's the true reason I build boats.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: relative costs and alternate choices
More on cost:
I've kept fairly close track of what I've spent on my my boats. The
first, a Teal, cost about $600 by the time it was in the water with
oars, pintels, gudgeons, etc. The schooner was around $1800-$2000 once
you include the bottom paint and the second hand suit of sails I picked
up last year. Sue and I spend about $600 to make three Gulls, and that
included a mileage allowance for her trip down her from Rochester.
Maybe Sue spent a few more dollars on hers once she got it home.
In addition to the four boats and countless hours of fun building them,
for my money I also got a table saw, a power planer, a cordless drill,
a reciprocating saw, a jig saw, and a bunch hand tools and clamps. I've
also done a few chores around the house that probably would have cost
$1000-$2000 to have someone come in and do. I've done a bunch of other
things I probably wouldn't have hired for, but I think they came out
better than they would have without the knowledge, tools, and
confidence boat building's give me.
All of the above is over a 5-6 year span. Add, subtract, and divide and
the whole thing's been a bargain by any measure. Add in the pleasure of
doing the work, and the pleasure of killing fish and crabs out of a
boat I've build myself, or the sheer joy of sailing the Light Schooner
(not really a boat you can buy at any price) and I'm way, way ahead!
The best reason to build a boat is for the joy of the build. If the
cost of the build looks like a fair price for the experience, there's
almost no way you can be disappointed.
YIBB,
David
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
FBBB,
The phenomenon of thing taking twice and long and costing twice as much
not exceptional, nor is it restricted to home-built boats. How many
professionally contracted home add-ons come in on time and on budget?
Precious few I expect. In my line of work, expanding scope, missed
deadlines, last minute revisions, and blown budgets are the rule, and
a good producer plans accordingly. Budgeting a boat project isn't that
hard. X sheets of plywood, x yards of glass, x gallons of epoxy, etc.;
it's all there on the plans, and the only surprises should be when
things cost *less* than expected.
Sticking to the budget is another matter entirely. We all know how it
goes; cheap plywood gets covered with expensive cloth, and that gets
painted with first quality paint. The purchases may be satisfying, the
results may be beautiful, but it is not cheap – and with the benefit of
hindsight luan may not have been best way to save money in the whole
scheme of things.
There is no doubt that it takes little effort to build a boat that is
more expensive than a comparably capable used boat, or perhaps even a
new boat. The chandlery is filled with shiny bits and pieces, coating
and potions, all promising to make one's efforts that much more
"worthwhile." If finishing on time and on budget was easy, then there
wouldn't be producers and contractors; and there wouldn't be any
half-finished hulks moldering in people's driveways!
YIBB,
David
The phenomenon of thing taking twice and long and costing twice as much
not exceptional, nor is it restricted to home-built boats. How many
professionally contracted home add-ons come in on time and on budget?
Precious few I expect. In my line of work, expanding scope, missed
deadlines, last minute revisions, and blown budgets are the rule, and
a good producer plans accordingly. Budgeting a boat project isn't that
hard. X sheets of plywood, x yards of glass, x gallons of epoxy, etc.;
it's all there on the plans, and the only surprises should be when
things cost *less* than expected.
Sticking to the budget is another matter entirely. We all know how it
goes; cheap plywood gets covered with expensive cloth, and that gets
painted with first quality paint. The purchases may be satisfying, the
results may be beautiful, but it is not cheap – and with the benefit of
hindsight luan may not have been best way to save money in the whole
scheme of things.
There is no doubt that it takes little effort to build a boat that is
more expensive than a comparably capable used boat, or perhaps even a
new boat. The chandlery is filled with shiny bits and pieces, coating
and potions, all promising to make one's efforts that much more
"worthwhile." If finishing on time and on budget was easy, then there
wouldn't be producers and contractors; and there wouldn't be any
half-finished hulks moldering in people's driveways!
YIBB,
David
> The end of the project isHaving just had a $500 weekend outfitting my "free" boat, I
> where it gets expensive when you need to buy sails, rigging, motors,
> controls, wiring lights, anchors, trailers, etc, etc.
understand. I'm not looking forward to the corresponding experience
with the Insolent 60.
-- Sue --
(still left to buy: lead for the keel, rudder bearings, anchor,
masthead light, compass, handheld VHF, handheld GPS, and I need to
make the cockpit tent and covers)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
First of all, there was a reason I chose the word "capability" and not
"boat". There is a difference. Capability implies that the used boats could
do much the same job as the boats you listed, I60 excepted (see below).
I'm a heretic, I know. The unchallenged dogma of this group is that you can
build cheaper than you can buy. I started building three boats ago with the
same thought. I see a lot of folks build with the idea that they can spread
out the cost over time, but they usually fail to realize that the cost of
materials for the hull is the only the beginning. The end of the project is
where it gets expensive when you need to buy sails, rigging, motors,
controls, wiring lights, anchors, trailers, etc, etc. Most projects fail
when the back end costs overwhelm the dream, especially with larger boats.
To any builder contemplating his first project, I'd suggest that instead of
starting with a only a few pennies and a lot of energy, they be a little
more patient and save a larger part of their budget before starting.
The ONLY reason to build, and I truly believe this, is when you can't find
exactly what you want (Like Insolent 60), or you truly enjoy the process.
For me, those are the only reasons I'll ever build again: I want a unique
boat (my own design) and I like building.
"boat". There is a difference. Capability implies that the used boats could
do much the same job as the boats you listed, I60 excepted (see below).
I'm a heretic, I know. The unchallenged dogma of this group is that you can
build cheaper than you can buy. I started building three boats ago with the
same thought. I see a lot of folks build with the idea that they can spread
out the cost over time, but they usually fail to realize that the cost of
materials for the hull is the only the beginning. The end of the project is
where it gets expensive when you need to buy sails, rigging, motors,
controls, wiring lights, anchors, trailers, etc, etc. Most projects fail
when the back end costs overwhelm the dream, especially with larger boats.
To any builder contemplating his first project, I'd suggest that instead of
starting with a only a few pennies and a lot of energy, they be a little
more patient and save a larger part of their budget before starting.
The ONLY reason to build, and I truly believe this, is when you can't find
exactly what you want (Like Insolent 60), or you truly enjoy the process.
For me, those are the only reasons I'll ever build again: I want a unique
boat (my own design) and I like building.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:15 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: relative costs and alternate choices
| John Bell:
| > it's always cheaper to buy an older motorboat or sailboat than
| > it is to build a similar capability from scratch.
|
| Assuming that one can find such a vessel, that is. Where can one buy
| the equivalent to an Insolent 60, Birdwatcher, or Fast Motorsailer?
|
| --
| Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
|
> Sue and I spent about $600 to make three Gulls, and thatFor "maybe", substitute "definitely" -- my Gull was my test boat for
> included a mileage allowance for her trip down her from Rochester.
> Maybe Sue spent a few more dollars on hers once she got it home.
using xynole, plus I had a butt strap fail and one potful of
improperly mixed epoxy that I had to strip, so I wound up using more
epoxy than I otherwise might, plus the cost of the xynole itself.
I also splurged and used real marine paint rather than porch paint --
but that's paid off in the overall impression that the boat gives. I
was fairly sloppy with my epoxy work (we were rushing to finish the
hull in a single weekend), and made no attempt whatever to fair the
hull after the final coat of epoxy went on, but I get lots of
compliments about her appearance. (Mostly from people standing
fifteen feet or more away.) PCB even sent a note saying that the
Gull's appearance was "very promising for the Insolent 60" -- not bad
for $50.
-- Sue --
(of course, PCB's design does far more to make the Gull look good than
my sloppy craftsmanship does)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
John Bell:
the equivalent to an Insolent 60, Birdwatcher, or Fast Motorsailer?
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> it's always cheaper to buy an older motorboat or sailboat thanAssuming that one can find such a vessel, that is. Where can one buy
> it is to build a similar capability from scratch.
the equivalent to an Insolent 60, Birdwatcher, or Fast Motorsailer?
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...>
| Around here, if you want a rowing boat, you need to build it.
I've observed much the same thing no matter where "here" is. The following
is excerpted from an article about a rowboat I just sent in to MAIB:
"Unlike most other home-built boats, rowboats are the one type where
building actually makes economic sense. (Observation gleaned from
experience: it's always cheaper to buy an older motorboat or sailboat than
it is to build a similar capability from scratch.) There are lots of good
rowboats offered for at retail, but most seem to be targeted to higher
disposable incomes than the median boater. These boats simply don't exist
on the used market, either. Therefore, if a boater wants a good rowing
boat, emphasis on "good", then the most economical way to get it is to build
it himself."
You gotta wait for the article to come out to see what it's reference to!
More on cost:
I've kept fairly close track of what I've spent on my my boats. The
first, a Teal, cost about $600 by the time it was in the water with
oars, pintels, gudgeons, etc. The schooner was around $1800-$2000 once
you include the bottom paint and the second hand suit of sails I picked
up last year. Sue and I spend about $600 to make three Gulls, and that
included a mileage allowance for her trip down her from Rochester.
Maybe Sue spent a few more dollars on hers once she got it home.
In addition to the four boats and countless hours of fun building them,
for my money I also got a table saw, a power planer, a cordless drill,
a reciprocating saw, a jig saw, and a bunch hand tools and clamps. I've
also done a few chores around the house that probably would have cost
$1000-$2000 to have someone come in and do. I've done a bunch of other
things I probably wouldn't have hired for, but I think they came out
better than they would have without the knowledge, tools, and
confidence boat building's give me.
All of the above is over a 5-6 year span. Add, subtract, and divide and
the whole thing's been a bargain by any measure. Add in the pleasure of
doing the work, and the pleasure of killing fish and crabs out of a
boat I've build myself, or the sheer joy of sailing the Light Schooner
(not really a boat you can buy at any price) and I'm way, way ahead!
The best reason to build a boat is for the joy of the build. If the
cost of the build looks like a fair price for the experience, there's
almost no way you can be disappointed.
YIBB,
David
I've kept fairly close track of what I've spent on my my boats. The
first, a Teal, cost about $600 by the time it was in the water with
oars, pintels, gudgeons, etc. The schooner was around $1800-$2000 once
you include the bottom paint and the second hand suit of sails I picked
up last year. Sue and I spend about $600 to make three Gulls, and that
included a mileage allowance for her trip down her from Rochester.
Maybe Sue spent a few more dollars on hers once she got it home.
In addition to the four boats and countless hours of fun building them,
for my money I also got a table saw, a power planer, a cordless drill,
a reciprocating saw, a jig saw, and a bunch hand tools and clamps. I've
also done a few chores around the house that probably would have cost
$1000-$2000 to have someone come in and do. I've done a bunch of other
things I probably wouldn't have hired for, but I think they came out
better than they would have without the knowledge, tools, and
confidence boat building's give me.
All of the above is over a 5-6 year span. Add, subtract, and divide and
the whole thing's been a bargain by any measure. Add in the pleasure of
doing the work, and the pleasure of killing fish and crabs out of a
boat I've build myself, or the sheer joy of sailing the Light Schooner
(not really a boat you can buy at any price) and I'm way, way ahead!
The best reason to build a boat is for the joy of the build. If the
cost of the build looks like a fair price for the experience, there's
almost no way you can be disappointed.
YIBB,
David
When you buy a used boat, it usually comes with:
--A trailer
--Sails
--A motor
--PFDs/cushions
--Often an anchor
--Often such niceties as a compass, flares, etc.
The only to reasons to build a boat are:
--For the pleasure/satisfaction of the experience, and
--To get a boat which is otherwise not available.
Around here, if you want a rowing boat, you need to build it. If you want a canoe or kayak, used boats are available and better than you can probably build. There are tons of sailing dinghies and small cruisers which are a lot cheaper than you can build. If you want something unique (like a Birdwatcher or Chebacco), you probably need to build it. It is up to you to determine if the unique boat suits you better than a used, stock boat.
John T
--A trailer
--Sails
--A motor
--PFDs/cushions
--Often an anchor
--Often such niceties as a compass, flares, etc.
The only to reasons to build a boat are:
--For the pleasure/satisfaction of the experience, and
--To get a boat which is otherwise not available.
Around here, if you want a rowing boat, you need to build it. If you want a canoe or kayak, used boats are available and better than you can probably build. There are tons of sailing dinghies and small cruisers which are a lot cheaper than you can build. If you want something unique (like a Birdwatcher or Chebacco), you probably need to build it. It is up to you to determine if the unique boat suits you better than a used, stock boat.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Goeckermann
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 5:11 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: relative costs and alternate choices
"What would I buy if I dreamed of Chebacco and Bird Watcher?" It depends
on the water I sail. This summer I bought an O'Day 23 for friends in WA
on ebay. $2200 bought a boat that they have spent most of the summer on
including the motor, anchors, etc. If you are near big water, I would
buy any of the >acGregor/Venures or a Catalina 22, both of which will be
more boat. If you don't need more boat, the littler Venture 17,
Vagabond, or similar will give great daysailing, easy single handling,
and overnighting possibilities. THEN, I WOULD MAKE A SMALLER BOAT out of
wood, a Kayak, a little pram, or similar, and have the best of all
worlds. I doubt that there is a person on this list that will tell you
his boat took only as long as he estimated or cost what he
guessed....and then he started looking for a motor and trailer. The 70's
vintage boat you find will hold her value if you do things economically.
I have bought several of the boats I am describing above, none for over
$2500, and most for half that. If you look into it, you will find that
Michalak agrees, and that Bolger even goes one better suggesting (with
merit) that most people would be better served by a motor cruiser towing
a little sailing/rowing boat. Makes a lot of sense unless you are a
trailer sailor. Then too, if we tell the truth, many like the building
as much as the sailing, in which case you should do whatever excites
you. What a country, eh?! JimG
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"What would I buy if I dreamed of Chebacco and Bird Watcher?" It depends
on the water I sail. This summer I bought an O'Day 23 for friends in WA
on ebay. $2200 bought a boat that they have spent most of the summer on
including the motor, anchors, etc. If you are near big water, I would
buy any of the >acGregor/Venures or a Catalina 22, both of which will be
more boat. If you don't need more boat, the littler Venture 17,
Vagabond, or similar will give great daysailing, easy single handling,
and overnighting possibilities. THEN, I WOULD MAKE A SMALLER BOAT out of
wood, a Kayak, a little pram, or similar, and have the best of all
worlds. I doubt that there is a person on this list that will tell you
his boat took only as long as he estimated or cost what he
guessed....and then he started looking for a motor and trailer. The 70's
vintage boat you find will hold her value if you do things economically.
I have bought several of the boats I am describing above, none for over
$2500, and most for half that. If you look into it, you will find that
Michalak agrees, and that Bolger even goes one better suggesting (with
merit) that most people would be better served by a motor cruiser towing
a little sailing/rowing boat. Makes a lot of sense unless you are a
trailer sailor. Then too, if we tell the truth, many like the building
as much as the sailing, in which case you should do whatever excites
you. What a country, eh?! JimG
on the water I sail. This summer I bought an O'Day 23 for friends in WA
on ebay. $2200 bought a boat that they have spent most of the summer on
including the motor, anchors, etc. If you are near big water, I would
buy any of the >acGregor/Venures or a Catalina 22, both of which will be
more boat. If you don't need more boat, the littler Venture 17,
Vagabond, or similar will give great daysailing, easy single handling,
and overnighting possibilities. THEN, I WOULD MAKE A SMALLER BOAT out of
wood, a Kayak, a little pram, or similar, and have the best of all
worlds. I doubt that there is a person on this list that will tell you
his boat took only as long as he estimated or cost what he
guessed....and then he started looking for a motor and trailer. The 70's
vintage boat you find will hold her value if you do things economically.
I have bought several of the boats I am describing above, none for over
$2500, and most for half that. If you look into it, you will find that
Michalak agrees, and that Bolger even goes one better suggesting (with
merit) that most people would be better served by a motor cruiser towing
a little sailing/rowing boat. Makes a lot of sense unless you are a
trailer sailor. Then too, if we tell the truth, many like the building
as much as the sailing, in which case you should do whatever excites
you. What a country, eh?! JimG
> >In the middle gets a little sketchy. There are lots of 20-30<chuckle>
> >foot sailboats lying about, there owners just wishing someone would
> >take them off their hands.
>
> Yes; but how many are sharpies? <heh heh heh> Or schooners?
Well, about a year and a half ago, I came across a "Lightfoot 21"
sharpie schooner (or cat ketch?) - in New Jersey, for $750 - but it
needed a good cleaning, and new tires on the trailer.
And when I told a boatbuilder friend about my find, he said "I have a
Lightfoot 21 under a tarp in my yard - my dad built it, and donated
it to some charity a few years ago, but nobody ever came to pick it
up"
So yes, at least one or two ...
Curtis
>In the middle gets a little sketchy. There are lots of 20-30Yes; but how many are sharpies? <heh heh heh> Or schooners? <chuckle>
>foot sailboats lying about, there owners just wishing someone would
>take them off their hands.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
I think that the economy of boat building lies at the margins. Small
boats can probably be built better and cheaper than they can be bought,
and big boats can sometimes be built better and cheaper than they can
be bought. In the middle gets a little sketchy. There are lots of 20-30
foot sailboats lying about, there owners just wishing someone would
take them off their hands.
-D
boats can probably be built better and cheaper than they can be bought,
and big boats can sometimes be built better and cheaper than they can
be bought. In the middle gets a little sketchy. There are lots of 20-30
foot sailboats lying about, there owners just wishing someone would
take them off their hands.
-D
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 08:38 PM, David Joseph wrote:
> I don't think there is any doubt that you "can" buy a boat cheaper than
> you can build - so long as you are talking about building a quality
> boat. The big question is about the dream. Does the dreamer dream
> that
> building a Birdwatcher is cheap and easy or does he dream that it is
> pretty and does what he wants. Much of what is written here seems to
> be
> about building cheap and I believe you can buy used and fix cheaper
> than
> you can build.
> When I first saw a Birdwatcher, I fell in love. Then I realized that I
> live in BC where it rains a lot and there is deep water everywhere.
> Reality set in so I am back to my traditional old fashioned boat.
> Still love the Birdwatcher though.
> PS - I am building from scratch.
> Nothing like an old fool.
>
>
>
> max56537 wrote:
>
>> It's often said that one can buy a boat cheaper than one can build.
>> My question would be if you wanted to buy a boat to replace a dream
>> of building either a Chebacco or a Birdwatcher what would you buy?
>> Factory cats seem to be priced high and keep their value. Birdwatcher
>> is in class all it's own. Is anything like it? If one decided to
>> build their dream, what are the limits to cost both high and low. Low
>> being a boat one would only want to sail on a very dark night with a
>> bag over your head to high being a vessel only missing a throne.
>> Facts and opinions requested.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
>> posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
>> Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Ah Max, but what do you do when your dream turns into a nightmare?
Go sit on the throne I guess,
DonB
who just rang his mooring man, who still can't find little Oink's
mooring, and says ring back in 2 weeks, and he may have to find me a
new one, and he's getting too old for this game, and the weather is
never going to get better. DonB is off to sit on the throne now!
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
Go sit on the throne I guess,
DonB
who just rang his mooring man, who still can't find little Oink's
mooring, and says ring back in 2 weeks, and he may have to find me a
new one, and he's getting too old for this game, and the weather is
never going to get better. DonB is off to sit on the throne now!
http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "max56537" <max56537@y...> wrote:
> It's often said that one can buy a boat cheaper than one can build.
> My question would be if you wanted to buy a boat to replace a dream
> of building either a Chebacco or a Birdwatcher what would you buy?
> Factory cats seem to be priced high and keep their value. Birdwatcher
> is in class all it's own. Is anything like it? If one decided to
> build their dream, what are the limits to cost both high and low. Low
> being a boat one would only want to sail on a very dark night with a
> bag over your head to high being a vessel only missing a throne.
> Facts and opinions requested.
I don't think there is any doubt that you "can" buy a boat cheaper than
you can build - so long as you are talking about building a quality
boat. The big question is about the dream. Does the dreamer dream that
building a Birdwatcher is cheap and easy or does he dream that it is
pretty and does what he wants. Much of what is written here seems to be
about building cheap and I believe you can buy used and fix cheaper than
you can build.
When I first saw a Birdwatcher, I fell in love. Then I realized that I
live in BC where it rains a lot and there is deep water everywhere.
Reality set in so I am back to my traditional old fashioned boat.
Still love the Birdwatcher though.
PS - I am building from scratch.
Nothing like an old fool.
max56537 wrote:
you can build - so long as you are talking about building a quality
boat. The big question is about the dream. Does the dreamer dream that
building a Birdwatcher is cheap and easy or does he dream that it is
pretty and does what he wants. Much of what is written here seems to be
about building cheap and I believe you can buy used and fix cheaper than
you can build.
When I first saw a Birdwatcher, I fell in love. Then I realized that I
live in BC where it rains a lot and there is deep water everywhere.
Reality set in so I am back to my traditional old fashioned boat.
Still love the Birdwatcher though.
PS - I am building from scratch.
Nothing like an old fool.
max56537 wrote:
> It's often said that one can buy a boat cheaper than one can build.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My question would be if you wanted to buy a boat to replace a dream
> of building either a Chebacco or a Birdwatcher what would you buy?
> Factory cats seem to be priced high and keep their value. Birdwatcher
> is in class all it's own. Is anything like it? If one decided to
> build their dream, what are the limits to cost both high and low. Low
> being a boat one would only want to sail on a very dark night with a
> bag over your head to high being a vessel only missing a throne.
> Facts and opinions requested.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
It's often said that one can buy a boat cheaper than one can build.
My question would be if you wanted to buy a boat to replace a dream
of building either a Chebacco or a Birdwatcher what would you buy?
Factory cats seem to be priced high and keep their value. Birdwatcher
is in class all it's own. Is anything like it? If one decided to
build their dream, what are the limits to cost both high and low. Low
being a boat one would only want to sail on a very dark night with a
bag over your head to high being a vessel only missing a throne.
Facts and opinions requested.
My question would be if you wanted to buy a boat to replace a dream
of building either a Chebacco or a Birdwatcher what would you buy?
Factory cats seem to be priced high and keep their value. Birdwatcher
is in class all it's own. Is anything like it? If one decided to
build their dream, what are the limits to cost both high and low. Low
being a boat one would only want to sail on a very dark night with a
bag over your head to high being a vessel only missing a throne.
Facts and opinions requested.