RE: [bolger] Re: Yamaha Outboards
Hi All -
I wonder if any of the group has had cooling problems with the Yamaha
???? My son & I both use Yamaha 9.9's in salt water and the cooling
system is constantly clogging up with salt deposits. I'm told that Yamaha
uses a very narrow tube in their cooling line, much smaller than what
previously was the norm. The problem is so acute that we've taken to
carry a jug of vinigar with us to flush out the motor.
This works very well but is a nusiance.
P.S. - Anyone built a "Cynthia J"
Aoha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale
purchased the optional lighting coil. When I went on my first cruise in
the Thousand Islands (east end of lake Ontario), I measured the voltage
output, and the most I was getting at my cruising speed (5 knots) was 8.5
volts. On the throtle handle, cruising speed was just above the notch
where you start the engine. I have no way of measuring the RPM but it was
way too low to achieve 12 volt battery charging voltage. I would guess
about half throtle. At this point, I also determined the motor was way
over powered for my Edel. I knew I needed more charging voltage if I was
going to go on a two week cruise in the North Channel of Lake Huron in
July. When I checked the circuitry of the charger, I saw that Mercury
(Tohatsu(?)) was using a simple rectifier. I was losing half the charging
pulse. I bypassed the rectifer with a full-wave bridge rectifier and then
did some tests with the motor in a garbage pail. With the throttle at my
cruising speed, I was getting over 16 volts. I connected a 12 volt lamp to
the output and measured 2 amps. As it turns out, I had also retired my old
12V battery and bought a new one at Costco. A couple of years ago I had
bought a 15 watt solar panel with a 7 amp three stage regulator
manufactured by the same company. The panel was 160 CDN$ and the charger
was 50 CDN$. I decided to bring the panel along for the cruise. I had
intended to use the regulator for the output of the Mercury as well as the
solar panel. As it turns out, I never needed the output of the Mercury!
The solar panel provided all the power I needed. I'm really baffled by
this. Mind you, we had two weeks of beautiful sunshine. My electrical
requirements were, a Raymarine autopilot (which I used constantly), a
handheld VHF radio that outputs 5 watts, a Garmin 45 GPS, a depth finder
which I use intermittently, a bulkhead mounted knotlog meter, and a 12V
cabin light for about two hours a night. And that's what I learned about
solar panels and 12 volt generating coils on outboards. Also, a fellow
trailer sailor let me try his 2 HP Honda from his tender. I was surprise
at how easily it pushed my Edel. I wondered if I would have been better
off with that motor. It sure would be lighter on the stern of the boat.
Previously, I had a 1979, 2 cycle, 4.5 horsepower Mercury; it was noisy,
poor fuel economy, underpowered, and heavy. Mind you the new Mercury is
quieter, very good fuel economy, no oil mixing, lots of power, but alas,
just as heavy.
I wonder if any of the group has had cooling problems with the Yamaha
???? My son & I both use Yamaha 9.9's in salt water and the cooling
system is constantly clogging up with salt deposits. I'm told that Yamaha
uses a very narrow tube in their cooling line, much smaller than what
previously was the norm. The problem is so acute that we've taken to
carry a jug of vinigar with us to flush out the motor.
This works very well but is a nusiance.
P.S. - Anyone built a "Cynthia J"
Aoha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale
> [Original Message]lbs). I bought a 2003, 4 cycle, 4 HP Mercury, for it this spring. I
> From: Robert Paquette <robertpaquette@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 8/21/2004 2:11:42 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Yamaha Outboards
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
>
> > I already have a 5 HP Merc and you are right about it having enough
> > power for a Micro and the weight is really handy. I was looking at
> > getting one with an alternator and it seems you have to get about an
> > 8HP for that.
> > Cheers, Nels
>
> I have an Edel 540 (17' 8") sloop (with gear, it must weight around 1500
purchased the optional lighting coil. When I went on my first cruise in
the Thousand Islands (east end of lake Ontario), I measured the voltage
output, and the most I was getting at my cruising speed (5 knots) was 8.5
volts. On the throtle handle, cruising speed was just above the notch
where you start the engine. I have no way of measuring the RPM but it was
way too low to achieve 12 volt battery charging voltage. I would guess
about half throtle. At this point, I also determined the motor was way
over powered for my Edel. I knew I needed more charging voltage if I was
going to go on a two week cruise in the North Channel of Lake Huron in
July. When I checked the circuitry of the charger, I saw that Mercury
(Tohatsu(?)) was using a simple rectifier. I was losing half the charging
pulse. I bypassed the rectifer with a full-wave bridge rectifier and then
did some tests with the motor in a garbage pail. With the throttle at my
cruising speed, I was getting over 16 volts. I connected a 12 volt lamp to
the output and measured 2 amps. As it turns out, I had also retired my old
12V battery and bought a new one at Costco. A couple of years ago I had
bought a 15 watt solar panel with a 7 amp three stage regulator
manufactured by the same company. The panel was 160 CDN$ and the charger
was 50 CDN$. I decided to bring the panel along for the cruise. I had
intended to use the regulator for the output of the Mercury as well as the
solar panel. As it turns out, I never needed the output of the Mercury!
The solar panel provided all the power I needed. I'm really baffled by
this. Mind you, we had two weeks of beautiful sunshine. My electrical
requirements were, a Raymarine autopilot (which I used constantly), a
handheld VHF radio that outputs 5 watts, a Garmin 45 GPS, a depth finder
which I use intermittently, a bulkhead mounted knotlog meter, and a 12V
cabin light for about two hours a night. And that's what I learned about
solar panels and 12 volt generating coils on outboards. Also, a fellow
trailer sailor let me try his 2 HP Honda from his tender. I was surprise
at how easily it pushed my Edel. I wondered if I would have been better
off with that motor. It sure would be lighter on the stern of the boat.
Previously, I had a 1979, 2 cycle, 4.5 horsepower Mercury; it was noisy,
poor fuel economy, underpowered, and heavy. Mind you the new Mercury is
quieter, very good fuel economy, no oil mixing, lots of power, but alas,
just as heavy.
>(978) 282-1349
> Robert, Edel 540, Niagara Falls
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
However
Robert, Edel 540, Niagara Falls
> I seem to get the impression that a 4-stroke outboard has a lot morethere is no doubt about it. My former 1979, 2 cycle 4.5HP Mercury, had insufficient power for my Edel. But my present 2003, 4 cycle 4 HP Mercury has way more power than I need
> torque than a two-stroke with the same advertised horsepower.
However
> I wonder how it would work with two 6 volt golf cartthat's the same size as the one that I was refering to and seemed to have enough power for my needs. In fact I bought it at Cdn Tire as well.
> batteries if it has an output of around 8 volts? The output voltage is dependent on the RPM of your outboard.
>
> My solar panel is only 15 watts and is 15" X 38" so I would likely
> only have room for one of them. It and the controller came to $130
> from Canuck Tire. This is basically a trickle charger I would guess.
>Perhaps the 6 HP Yamaha would be the answer. Ityou might get caught in the same situation as I was, where your outboard is too powerful for your craft, and therefore you have to use it at half throtle. Since the output of your charging coil is dependent on your RPM, your alternator will not be putting out the 12-14.4V. You might check with Yamaha and see at what RPM the rated voltage output is attained.
> comes with an optional alternator but is only 3 amps - which might
> enough as it is a full 12-14.4 volt output.
Robert, Edel 540, Niagara Falls
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paquette" <> I have an Edel
540 (17' 8") sloop (with gear, it must weight around 1500 lbs). I
bought a 2003, 4 cycle, 4 HP Mercury, for it this spring.
Hi Robert,
Thank you very much for your most informative report on your
experiences. Looks like you do some trailer sailing. I much admire
the North Channel area and met some sailers at Blind River who were
very impressed with the MICRO. Said it would be ideal for that area.
I seem to get the impression that a 4-stroke outboard has a lot more
torque than a two-stroke with the same advertised horsepower. However
there are few power choices. For example there are only two choices
for a sincgle cylinder 4 stroke and two choices in the smaller 2-
cylinder models and the 2 cylinder ones are likely more than enough
motor, yet are the ones that have adequate alternators.
I never considered using the lighting coil as a source for charging
the battery. I wonder how it would work with two 6 volt golf cart
batteries if it has an output of around 8 volts?
My solar panel is only 15 watts and is 15" X 38" so I would likely
only have room for one of them. It and the controller came to $130
from Canuck Tire. This is basically a trickle charger I would guess.
Peter Lenihan found the 5 HP 2-stroke Merc to barely provide headway
in the current in some of the spots in the St. Lawrence. So that was
another reason for considering a larger motor as I will be doing some
river travel myself. Perhaps the 6 HP Yamaha would be the answer. It
comes with an optional alternator but is only 3 amps - which might be
enough as it is a full 12-14.4 volt output.
Cheers, Nels
540 (17' 8") sloop (with gear, it must weight around 1500 lbs). I
bought a 2003, 4 cycle, 4 HP Mercury, for it this spring.
Hi Robert,
Thank you very much for your most informative report on your
experiences. Looks like you do some trailer sailing. I much admire
the North Channel area and met some sailers at Blind River who were
very impressed with the MICRO. Said it would be ideal for that area.
I seem to get the impression that a 4-stroke outboard has a lot more
torque than a two-stroke with the same advertised horsepower. However
there are few power choices. For example there are only two choices
for a sincgle cylinder 4 stroke and two choices in the smaller 2-
cylinder models and the 2 cylinder ones are likely more than enough
motor, yet are the ones that have adequate alternators.
I never considered using the lighting coil as a source for charging
the battery. I wonder how it would work with two 6 volt golf cart
batteries if it has an output of around 8 volts?
My solar panel is only 15 watts and is 15" X 38" so I would likely
only have room for one of them. It and the controller came to $130
from Canuck Tire. This is basically a trickle charger I would guess.
Peter Lenihan found the 5 HP 2-stroke Merc to barely provide headway
in the current in some of the spots in the St. Lawrence. So that was
another reason for considering a larger motor as I will be doing some
river travel myself. Perhaps the 6 HP Yamaha would be the answer. It
comes with an optional alternator but is only 3 amps - which might be
enough as it is a full 12-14.4 volt output.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Robert, Edel 540, Niagara Falls
> I already have a 5 HP Merc and you are right about it having enoughI have an Edel 540 (17' 8") sloop (with gear, it must weight around 1500 lbs). I bought a 2003, 4 cycle, 4 HP Mercury, for it this spring. I purchased the optional lighting coil. When I went on my first cruise in the Thousand Islands (east end of lake Ontario), I measured the voltage output, and the most I was getting at my cruising speed (5 knots) was 8.5 volts. On the throtle handle, cruising speed was just above the notch where you start the engine. I have no way of measuring the RPM but it was way too low to achieve 12 volt battery charging voltage. I would guess about half throtle. At this point, I also determined the motor was way over powered for my Edel. I knew I needed more charging voltage if I was going to go on a two week cruise in the North Channel of Lake Huron in July. When I checked the circuitry of the charger, I saw that Mercury (Tohatsu(?)) was using a simple rectifier. I was losing half the charging pulse. I bypassed the rectifer with a full-wave bridge rectifier and then did some tests with the motor in a garbage pail. With the throttle at my cruising speed, I was getting over 16 volts. I connected a 12 volt lamp to the output and measured 2 amps. As it turns out, I had also retired my old 12V battery and bought a new one at Costco. A couple of years ago I had bought a 15 watt solar panel with a 7 amp three stage regulator manufactured by the same company. The panel was 160 CDN$ and the charger was 50 CDN$. I decided to bring the panel along for the cruise. I had intended to use the regulator for the output of the Mercury as well as the solar panel. As it turns out, I never needed the output of the Mercury! The solar panel provided all the power I needed. I'm really baffled by this. Mind you, we had two weeks of beautiful sunshine. My electrical requirements were, a Raymarine autopilot (which I used constantly), a handheld VHF radio that outputs 5 watts, a Garmin 45 GPS, a depth finder which I use intermittently, a bulkhead mounted knotlog meter, and a 12V cabin light for about two hours a night. And that's what I learned about solar panels and 12 volt generating coils on outboards. Also, a fellow trailer sailor let me try his 2 HP Honda from his tender. I was surprise at how easily it pushed my Edel. I wondered if I would have been better off with that motor. It sure would be lighter on the stern of the boat. Previously, I had a 1979, 2 cycle, 4.5 horsepower Mercury; it was noisy, poor fuel economy, underpowered, and heavy. Mind you the new Mercury is quieter, very good fuel economy, no oil mixing, lots of power, but alas, just as heavy.
> power for a Micro and the weight is really handy. I was looking at
> getting one with an alternator and it seems you have to get about an
> 8HP for that.
> Cheers, Nels
Robert, Edel 540, Niagara Falls
Nels-
Did you get that email?
The blue tube is sealed and waiting for an address.
Jason
Did you get that email?
The blue tube is sealed and waiting for an address.
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
an inverter, AND a solar panel with the various connections,
regulator, and some other parts. I have worked with all three in the
past and have done wind power studies for the governemnt as well.
I STILL like the idea of the motor having a decent alternator and
ability to provide for remote controls.
As I posted a long time ago, I am also considering an electric winch
to raise and lower the mast and maybe trim the sail too!
Cheers, Nels "Blondie" Arvidson.
> Honda makes a little stand-alone generator that is veryimpressive. Quiet,
> easy starting, etc. (I helped my son cover the "Thunder OverLouisville"
> fireworks show and that little gem of a generator just sat thereand ran
> silently all day.) There is the problem of having gasoline for it,and it
> is pricey, but compared to a new outboard ...I agree with what you say. I actually have a 1500 watt generator AND
an inverter, AND a solar panel with the various connections,
regulator, and some other parts. I have worked with all three in the
past and have done wind power studies for the governemnt as well.
I STILL like the idea of the motor having a decent alternator and
ability to provide for remote controls.
As I posted a long time ago, I am also considering an electric winch
to raise and lower the mast and maybe trim the sail too!
Cheers, Nels "Blondie" Arvidson.
>enough
> Roger
> derbyrm@s...
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nels" <arvent@h...>
>
> > I already have a 5 HP Merc and you are right about it having
> > power for a Micro and the weight is really handy. I was looking atan
> > getting one with an alternator and it seems you have to get about
> > 8HP for that. (You can get a tiny 3 amp one on the Yamaha 6.)electric
> >
> > The Honda has a full 15 amp output on it's 8 if you get the
> > start. But then you are up over 100 lb again! Would be nice toget a
> > larger alternator on a small motor since it doesn't take muchpower
> > to push the boat to hull speed anyway.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
that it would be a lot simpler converting metric figures.
For example the imperial measurement 3,2,4+ means 3 feet 2 5/16
inches right? (Actual figure from a plan)If this was metric it would
convert to 998 mm.(A guess but you get the idea.) Bet I can do a
metric conversion to 3/4 the measuement faster than you can do the
imperial! The advantage of course is that with the metric there is
only one figure to deal with.
Not wanting to get the Imperialists upset as we Canucks are - like
our former Prime Minister - not fluent in either language:-)
Cheers, Nels
> ----- Original Message -----Not saying there is anything "wrong" with doing it that way, just
> From: "Nels" <arvent@h...>
>
> <snip>
> > Would be great to have the plans converted to metric so a
> > person could have the choice of three sizes - 50, 75 and 100%.
>
> What's wrong with 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ????
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@s...
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
that it would be a lot simpler converting metric figures.
For example the imperial measurement 3,2,4+ means 3 feet 2 5/16
inches right? (Actual figure from a plan)If this was metric it would
convert to 998 mm.(A guess but you get the idea.) Bet I can do a
metric conversion to 3/4 the measuement faster than you can do the
imperial! The advantage of course is that with the metric there is
only one figure to deal with.
Not wanting to get the Imperialists upset as we Canucks are - like
our former Prime Minister - not fluent in either language:-)
Cheers, Nels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
<snip>
> Would be great to have the plans converted to metric so a
> person could have the choice of three sizes - 50, 75 and 100%.
What's wrong with 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ????
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Honda makes a little stand-alone generator that is very impressive. Quiet,
easy starting, etc. (I helped my son cover the "Thunder Over Louisville"
fireworks show and that little gem of a generator just sat there and ran
silently all day.) There is the problem of having gasoline for it, and it
is pricey, but compared to a new outboard ...
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
easy starting, etc. (I helped my son cover the "Thunder Over Louisville"
fireworks show and that little gem of a generator just sat there and ran
silently all day.) There is the problem of having gasoline for it, and it
is pricey, but compared to a new outboard ...
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
> I already have a 5 HP Merc and you are right about it having enough
> power for a Micro and the weight is really handy. I was looking at
> getting one with an alternator and it seems you have to get about an
> 8HP for that. (You can get a tiny 3 amp one on the Yamaha 6.)
>
> The Honda has a full 15 amp output on it's 8 if you get the electric
> start. But then you are up over 100 lb again! Would be nice to get a
> larger alternator on a small motor since it doesn't take much power
> to push the boat to hull speed anyway.
How about setting up solar panels or a wind operating charging
system for the batteries? That should keep the running lights going,
and provide enough power to occassionally listen to the ballgame, or
your favorite symphony. Hamilton-Ferris in Ashland, Massachusetts
makes such units.
Sorry, not enough power to run your television or microwave.
David Jost
system for the batteries? That should keep the running lights going,
and provide enough power to occassionally listen to the ballgame, or
your favorite symphony. Hamilton-Ferris in Ashland, Massachusetts
makes such units.
Sorry, not enough power to run your television or microwave.
David Jost
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
I already have a 5 HP Merc and you are right about it having enough
power for a Micro and the weight is really handy. I was looking at
getting one with an alternator and it seems you have to get about an
8HP for that. (You can get a tiny 3 amp one on the Yamaha 6.)
The Honda has a full 15 amp output on it's 8 if you get the electric
start. But then you are up over 100 lb again! Would be nice to get a
larger alternator on a small motor since it doesn't take much power
to push the boat to hull speed anyway.
Also I guess it is back to the drawing board to look at remote tiller
steering using the rudder. I was liking the idea of full electrics
and sitting in a comfortable inside captains chair, when the weather
gets lousy:-)
Cheers, Nels
> Nels -Thanks for the feedback David and all.
>
> The manufacturers make a 9.9 since many lakes have a 10 hp
> restriction. It is essentially a 15 hp motor with modifications
> made to limit hp production. Therefore, a 15 hp motor is usually a
> better buy. Hope that helps. 4hp longshaft was more than
> sufficient on my old Micro.
>
> David Jost
I already have a 5 HP Merc and you are right about it having enough
power for a Micro and the weight is really handy. I was looking at
getting one with an alternator and it seems you have to get about an
8HP for that. (You can get a tiny 3 amp one on the Yamaha 6.)
The Honda has a full 15 amp output on it's 8 if you get the electric
start. But then you are up over 100 lb again! Would be nice to get a
larger alternator on a small motor since it doesn't take much power
to push the boat to hull speed anyway.
Also I guess it is back to the drawing board to look at remote tiller
steering using the rudder. I was liking the idea of full electrics
and sitting in a comfortable inside captains chair, when the weather
gets lousy:-)
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
You got yourself a deal! Offline me your mailing address to:
arvent@...
And I will have them in the mail tomorrow and send you my mailing
address. The Paradox plans have never been used and I never will - as
it is just too small for my requirements.
You will be amazed at the elegance of the design that reefs a lugsail
like an upside down window blind. Since your sail and boom are larger
you will have to upsize the tack strop piping to give enough support.
The Tack strop is a hollow brass pipe and the "gooseneck" is solid
brass rod. They join together by splitting the ends apart to form a
clevis type connection through which a bolt goes through and allows
the boom to move up and down - or be taken down and stored along with
the sail!
How is the tack strop allowed to rotate? Well it has a length of
rope tied into it and the bitter end goes below decks and is tied
off. The end of the tack strop is held against a thimble made from a
piece of copper pipe that is flared above and below the deck enough
to support the strop. There is also a length of copper pipe driven
into the end of the boom to form a bearing surface for the gooseneck
that is stuck into the copper pipe and then held there by a set screw
that fits into a groove that has been machined into the inner end of
the gooseneck. So the entire boom is allowed to rotate in whichever
direction you want it to, depending whether you haul the sail aloft
or wind in back down. There is a loose, rotating tang on the other
end of the boom to which the mainsheet attaches through a sheet
block. Much easier to see the drawings than try to describe.
So there is only three lines. Uphaul, reef line and main sheet,
although some people add a forth to support the outboard end of the
boom. Can't remember what that is called.
If I were you, I would just continue rigging in the regular way,
because this can be added later, once you figure out the particular
sized pipe you need. That way you would still have te original hook-
up in case something breaks with this one. The question is - how big
a sail can it handle before that reefing system just gets too bulky?
As a bonus I will include a free building manual on CD and a Yuloh
plan. Just what you always wanted eh?
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> > Micro and LM plans.Hi Jason,
> ****************************
> The new mods have just replaced the old navigator sheet.
> $75-$50(?)
>
> Trade you my nav upgrade plans for the paradox plans? Totally legal
> as i had to pay $50 for the design "commision" and I haven't
> incorporated a single upgrade, as i was too far into building and
> didn't want to cut up my work or the changes made things more
> complicated than i wanted on my "simple" boat. DOH!
> ***********************************************
You got yourself a deal! Offline me your mailing address to:
arvent@...
And I will have them in the mail tomorrow and send you my mailing
address. The Paradox plans have never been used and I never will - as
it is just too small for my requirements.
You will be amazed at the elegance of the design that reefs a lugsail
like an upside down window blind. Since your sail and boom are larger
you will have to upsize the tack strop piping to give enough support.
The Tack strop is a hollow brass pipe and the "gooseneck" is solid
brass rod. They join together by splitting the ends apart to form a
clevis type connection through which a bolt goes through and allows
the boom to move up and down - or be taken down and stored along with
the sail!
How is the tack strop allowed to rotate? Well it has a length of
rope tied into it and the bitter end goes below decks and is tied
off. The end of the tack strop is held against a thimble made from a
piece of copper pipe that is flared above and below the deck enough
to support the strop. There is also a length of copper pipe driven
into the end of the boom to form a bearing surface for the gooseneck
that is stuck into the copper pipe and then held there by a set screw
that fits into a groove that has been machined into the inner end of
the gooseneck. So the entire boom is allowed to rotate in whichever
direction you want it to, depending whether you haul the sail aloft
or wind in back down. There is a loose, rotating tang on the other
end of the boom to which the mainsheet attaches through a sheet
block. Much easier to see the drawings than try to describe.
So there is only three lines. Uphaul, reef line and main sheet,
although some people add a forth to support the outboard end of the
boom. Can't remember what that is called.
If I were you, I would just continue rigging in the regular way,
because this can be added later, once you figure out the particular
sized pipe you need. That way you would still have te original hook-
up in case something breaks with this one. The question is - how big
a sail can it handle before that reefing system just gets too bulky?
As a bonus I will include a free building manual on CD and a Yuloh
plan. Just what you always wanted eh?
Cheers, Nels
Nels -
The manufacturers make a 9.9 since many lakes have a 10 hp
restriction. It is essentially a 15 hp motor with modifications
made to limit hp production. Therefore, a 15 hp motor is usually a
better buy. Hope that helps. 4hp longshaft was more than
sufficient on my old Micro.
David Jost
The manufacturers make a 9.9 since many lakes have a 10 hp
restriction. It is essentially a 15 hp motor with modifications
made to limit hp production. Therefore, a 15 hp motor is usually a
better buy. Hope that helps. 4hp longshaft was more than
sufficient on my old Micro.
David Jost
I bought a used yamaha 9.9 elec. remote steering and am well pleased with
the way it pushes my 22 GRP displacement hull (was a sailboat, now a classic
inspired cabin cruiser) 600 lb lead keel, goes hull speed at just above
idle, plenty of reserve and just as important to me, quiet!
Grant, enjoying the waning days of summer in Vermont
on 8/19/04 5:49 PM, Nels atarvent@...wrote:
the way it pushes my 22 GRP displacement hull (was a sailboat, now a classic
inspired cabin cruiser) 600 lb lead keel, goes hull speed at just above
idle, plenty of reserve and just as important to me, quiet!
Grant, enjoying the waning days of summer in Vermont
on 8/19/04 5:49 PM, Nels atarvent@...wrote:
> I have been doing some comparisons for the smaller line of Yamaha
> outboards. I am mainly interested in the smallest motor that has the
> option of a decent sized alternator, remote start and preferably
> remote steering.
>
> I got some interesting results that others may or may not be aware of.
>
> There are two series - the F series and the T series (High thrust).
> There is an F8, F9.9 F15 and a T8 and T9.9 (no T15)
>
> Here are the intersting things I found.
>
> The T8 is the heaviest of the group at 102 lbs and the second most
> expensive after the T9.9! You can get it with power tilt!
>
> The F15 and F9.9 have the identical specs except for HP rating and
> about $400 Cdn difference in price.
>
> The F8 is 83 lb but does not seem to offer an alternator or remote
> start/steering.
>
> Seems to me that the F15 is a noteworthy consideration for many
> applications were people only consider the T9.9. Probably the F15 is
> not as effective in pushing a larger displacement hull, yet will
> likely more easily plane a smaller hull. May be worth considering
> especially for those building a Bantam or similar design. The F15 may
> be more suitable and is cheaper to buy than the T9.9.
>
> Also of note is that many motors now come in three leg lengths, 15,
> 20 and 25 inch. I think the 20 would be a good middle ground for a
> Micro or Long Micro. Not sure about whether the F15 or T9.9 would be
> the better engine choice if one wanted remote steering inside the
> pilothouse. This would be particularly useful in a Long Micro with
> pilothouse which I am contemplating, since the tiller will not reach
> into the cabin without a secondary control system - like on
> Birdwatcher for example.
>
> Any thoughts? Or consierations about Mercs, Nissan, Suzukis, in
> comparison to Yamahas which are definitely more expensive?
>
> For a Long Micro with a pilot house I am considering using the
> standard rig with a smaller mainsail and a higher sprit location to
> clear the cabin as Roger Keyes has done with his Micro which he takes
> offshore. I would therefor be using a motor more often and figure the
> extra cost of a good one will more than offset the complications and
> expense of the Chinese Gaff rig. Also, the standard rig will be
> easier to handle when trailering. Reefing will me more difficult when
> under way and will require going on deck.
>
> Thanks, Nels
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
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>
>
>
>
>
> Well I am still waiting for you to post details of the latestMicro Nav mods, so I can see if I can use any of it.
*********************
What do you want to know? The round bow would be a breeze to stick
on the long micro.......just ovesize the lockstaff and make the
leading edge round.....same for the anti-kerphluper make the
forefoot of the keel a hair deeper and add a fillet of ply in
there.....simular to what don did to the bow of oink but less
drastic. I think the biggest improvement is the new frame that is
the bench / front bin interface that extends up to form the front
window frame of the pilot house....this saves the big a&* beam that
don, myself and bruce have in our boats.
Do you know if these
> mods can be purchased alone and how much they cost? I already have****************************
> Micro and LM plans.
The new mods have just replaced the old navigator sheet.
$75-$50(?)
I plan to build a scale model of a Long Micro with a 6'long
> cabin that is further aft than shown on the MICRO NAV cartoon.This way I can use a more simple rig than it calls for and the sprit
boom will still clear the cabin. Also have room for a shoebox on the
foredeck.
> The interior set-up will be much like the One Person Liveaboardwith an outside steering station, overhead protection and an
additional inside steering station when motoring or when the weather
gets disagreeable. My main focus will be recreational sailing only
and using the motor if I really want to get somewhere. Therefore the
rounded bow would be a must.
*************************************
Sounds like a plan!
> I also have a set of Paradox plans so I will see if I can figureout
> how the furling system works. You might want to confer with Mattas
> to the scantlings you will need with that big sail.***********************
That would be great if you could throw me a bone on that reefing
system as i am clueless to how it works. I ask on one of the pdx
groups but haven't heard a peep.
Trade you my nav upgrade plans for the paradox plans? Totally legal
as i had to pay $50 for the design "commision" and I haven't
incorporated a single upgrade, as i was too far into building and
didn't want to cut up my work or the changes made things more
complicated than i wanted on my "simple" boat. DOH!
***********************************************
> Maybe a future project should be a WHALEWATCHER with chine runnersthe
> and the same furling system:-) It is basically an enlarged Paradox
> hull with the BIRDWATCHER house. Lots of room for four! And has
> perfect "seas of peas" hull form.That thing is a hideous monster, much like my little box. Kinda
>
> Would be great to have the plans converted to metric so a person
> could have the choice of three sizes - 50, 75 and 100%.
funny cause just like bruce said of his neiborhood, the folks around
here ask me if it's some kind of little fishing trawler. I think it
looks good (i have to say that) out of the water because of the
robust pot belly but the house may look rediculously tall when she
settles in the water
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Nav mods, so I can see if I can use any of it. Do you know if these
mods can be purchased alone and how much they cost? I already have
Micro and LM plans.
Actually I have been away most of the summer touring Norway and
Sweden. I plan to build a scale model of a Long Micro with a 6'long
cabin that is further aft than shown on the MICRO NAV cartoon. This
way I can use a more simple rig than it calls for and the sprit boom
will still clear the cabin. Also have room for a shoebox on the
foredeck.
The interior set-up will be much like the One Person Liveaboard with
an outside steering station, overhead protection and an additional
inside steering station when motoring or when the weather gets
disagreeable. My main focus will be recreational sailing only and
using the motor if I really want to get somewhere. Therefore the
rounded bow would be a must.
how the furling system works. You might want to confer with Matt as
to the scantlings you will need with that big sail.
Maybe a future project should be a WHALEWATCHER with chine runners
and the same furling system:-) It is basically an enlarged Paradox
hull with the BIRDWATCHER house. Lots of room for four! And has the
perfect "seas of peas" hull form.
Would be great to have the plans converted to metric so a person
could have the choice of three sizes - 50, 75 and 100%.
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> How close are you getting to starting this thing?Well I am still waiting for you to post details of the latest Micro
> I'm glad i'm not the only one that sees the chinese gaff as
> complicated and expensive. I'm not knocking it, it just didn't fit
> my needs and budget.
Nav mods, so I can see if I can use any of it. Do you know if these
mods can be purchased alone and how much they cost? I already have
Micro and LM plans.
Actually I have been away most of the summer touring Norway and
Sweden. I plan to build a scale model of a Long Micro with a 6'long
cabin that is further aft than shown on the MICRO NAV cartoon. This
way I can use a more simple rig than it calls for and the sprit boom
will still clear the cabin. Also have room for a shoebox on the
foredeck.
The interior set-up will be much like the One Person Liveaboard with
an outside steering station, overhead protection and an additional
inside steering station when motoring or when the weather gets
disagreeable. My main focus will be recreational sailing only and
using the motor if I really want to get somewhere. Therefore the
rounded bow would be a must.
>huge
> On that note i've got my MJ lug sail ready to go. It's friggin'
> and i know i measured it right. I should have put another set oflike
> reef points in it as i think I will have the first one in all the
> time. I'd like to figure out how to set the boom to roller reef
> layden's paradox(maybe i'll get the plans and have a winter refitmid
> project).
>
> For now I just need to finish the boat before the weather turns.
> atlantic small boat festival or bust!I also have a set of Paradox plans so I will see if I can figure out
>
> Jason
how the furling system works. You might want to confer with Matt as
to the scantlings you will need with that big sail.
Maybe a future project should be a WHALEWATCHER with chine runners
and the same furling system:-) It is basically an enlarged Paradox
hull with the BIRDWATCHER house. Lots of room for four! And has the
perfect "seas of peas" hull form.
Would be great to have the plans converted to metric so a person
could have the choice of three sizes - 50, 75 and 100%.
Cheers, Nels
and figure the
How close are you getting to starting this thing?
I'm glad i'm not the only one that sees the chinese gaff as
complicated and expensive. I'm not knocking it, it just didn't fit
my needs and budget.
On that note i've got my MJ lug sail ready to go. It's friggin' huge
and i know i measured it right. I should have put another set of
reef points in it as i think I will have the first one in all the
time. I'd like to figure out how to set the boom to roller reef like
layden's paradox(maybe i'll get the plans and have a winter refit
project).
For now I just need to finish the boat before the weather turns. mid
atlantic small boat festival or bust!
Jason
> extra cost of a good one will more than offset the complicationsand expense of the Chinese Gaff rig. Also, the standard rig will be
> easier to handle when trailering.******************************************
How close are you getting to starting this thing?
I'm glad i'm not the only one that sees the chinese gaff as
complicated and expensive. I'm not knocking it, it just didn't fit
my needs and budget.
On that note i've got my MJ lug sail ready to go. It's friggin' huge
and i know i measured it right. I should have put another set of
reef points in it as i think I will have the first one in all the
time. I'd like to figure out how to set the boom to roller reef like
layden's paradox(maybe i'll get the plans and have a winter refit
project).
For now I just need to finish the boat before the weather turns. mid
atlantic small boat festival or bust!
Jason
I have been doing some comparisons for the smaller line of Yamaha
outboards. I am mainly interested in the smallest motor that has the
option of a decent sized alternator, remote start and preferably
remote steering.
I got some interesting results that others may or may not be aware of.
There are two series - the F series and the T series (High thrust).
There is an F8, F9.9 F15 and a T8 and T9.9 (no T15)
Here are the intersting things I found.
The T8 is the heaviest of the group at 102 lbs and the second most
expensive after the T9.9! You can get it with power tilt!
The F15 and F9.9 have the identical specs except for HP rating and
about $400 Cdn difference in price.
The F8 is 83 lb but does not seem to offer an alternator or remote
start/steering.
Seems to me that the F15 is a noteworthy consideration for many
applications were people only consider the T9.9. Probably the F15 is
not as effective in pushing a larger displacement hull, yet will
likely more easily plane a smaller hull. May be worth considering
especially for those building a Bantam or similar design. The F15 may
be more suitable and is cheaper to buy than the T9.9.
Also of note is that many motors now come in three leg lengths, 15,
20 and 25 inch. I think the 20 would be a good middle ground for a
Micro or Long Micro. Not sure about whether the F15 or T9.9 would be
the better engine choice if one wanted remote steering inside the
pilothouse. This would be particularly useful in a Long Micro with
pilothouse which I am contemplating, since the tiller will not reach
into the cabin without a secondary control system - like on
Birdwatcher for example.
Any thoughts? Or consierations about Mercs, Nissan, Suzukis, in
comparison to Yamahas which are definitely more expensive?
For a Long Micro with a pilot house I am considering using the
standard rig with a smaller mainsail and a higher sprit location to
clear the cabin as Roger Keyes has done with his Micro which he takes
offshore. I would therefor be using a motor more often and figure the
extra cost of a good one will more than offset the complications and
expense of the Chinese Gaff rig. Also, the standard rig will be
easier to handle when trailering. Reefing will me more difficult when
under way and will require going on deck.
Thanks, Nels
outboards. I am mainly interested in the smallest motor that has the
option of a decent sized alternator, remote start and preferably
remote steering.
I got some interesting results that others may or may not be aware of.
There are two series - the F series and the T series (High thrust).
There is an F8, F9.9 F15 and a T8 and T9.9 (no T15)
Here are the intersting things I found.
The T8 is the heaviest of the group at 102 lbs and the second most
expensive after the T9.9! You can get it with power tilt!
The F15 and F9.9 have the identical specs except for HP rating and
about $400 Cdn difference in price.
The F8 is 83 lb but does not seem to offer an alternator or remote
start/steering.
Seems to me that the F15 is a noteworthy consideration for many
applications were people only consider the T9.9. Probably the F15 is
not as effective in pushing a larger displacement hull, yet will
likely more easily plane a smaller hull. May be worth considering
especially for those building a Bantam or similar design. The F15 may
be more suitable and is cheaper to buy than the T9.9.
Also of note is that many motors now come in three leg lengths, 15,
20 and 25 inch. I think the 20 would be a good middle ground for a
Micro or Long Micro. Not sure about whether the F15 or T9.9 would be
the better engine choice if one wanted remote steering inside the
pilothouse. This would be particularly useful in a Long Micro with
pilothouse which I am contemplating, since the tiller will not reach
into the cabin without a secondary control system - like on
Birdwatcher for example.
Any thoughts? Or consierations about Mercs, Nissan, Suzukis, in
comparison to Yamahas which are definitely more expensive?
For a Long Micro with a pilot house I am considering using the
standard rig with a smaller mainsail and a higher sprit location to
clear the cabin as Roger Keyes has done with his Micro which he takes
offshore. I would therefor be using a motor more often and figure the
extra cost of a good one will more than offset the complications and
expense of the Chinese Gaff rig. Also, the standard rig will be
easier to handle when trailering. Reefing will me more difficult when
under way and will require going on deck.
Thanks, Nels