Re: Paint below waterline?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "rogerleroy" <rogerleroy@y...> wrote:
will be out It looks alot nicer when the sun is on it
Jason
> Jason,I'll take some pictures this weekend and post them. I hope the sun
>
> Any pictures of that copper paint mix?
will be out It looks alot nicer when the sun is on it
Jason
Jason,
Any pictures of that copper paint mix?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Any pictures of that copper paint mix?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> Garth-or
> If you are going to sand and recoat the bottom anyway. Have you
> considered copper flake? Unless your waters are very warm in two
> three weeks you should be able to wipe growth off the graphite.THe
> copper powder should halt most of the growth(hard) while the beardshiney
> if any could be wiped off with a sponge or brush.
>
> I covered my bottom with dynel and then put four thin coats of
> copper/poxy on to smooth it all out fair.....not bad for my first
> time. Once i rolled the boat back over i marked the water line
> masked it and coperpoxied up to the tape...3 coats of fast set in
> the heat of the day in about 1.5 hours and then peeled the tape 20
> minutes after the last coat.....looks good. Looks like a nice
> new penny(maybe it will turn green after sitting in the water fora
> while?)and
>
> I think my mix was 5oz of copper to each 8 oz of epoxy.....i could
> double check if you want. The stuff was only a few bucks a pound
> it came from progressive epoxies(?) in NH. I only used less than1/2
> of my 5 pound can.
>
> Jason
If it's been only a few days, get out there and scrape the bumps off
while you can. Less dust and less work. Sanding after scraping is much
less work. But if the epoxy is already set up real hard, not so good. In
a pinch, you can remove the blade from a hand plane and scrape with
that, assuming you can sharpen it easily. THe corallary is that sanding
within a few days is messy and frustrating with the epoxy still a little
soft.
while you can. Less dust and less work. Sanding after scraping is much
less work. But if the epoxy is already set up real hard, not so good. In
a pinch, you can remove the blade from a hand plane and scrape with
that, assuming you can sharpen it easily. THe corallary is that sanding
within a few days is messy and frustrating with the epoxy still a little
soft.
>GarthAB wrote:
>snip
>
>Postscript to this is that I really bollixed the bottom finish. It
>has pock marks and bumps and all kinds of mess. The epoxy kicked off
>before I could smoothe it out right. The usual -- trying to do too
>much at once. I'll never learn. So now I'm contemplating sanding the
>whole damn thing down a bit and applying one last, smooth, layer of
>the graphite/silica mix. Argggh!
>
>A mantra I repeat to myself often when working on boats, and which
>never really sinks in deep enough: "If you don't have time to do it
>right in the first place, how will you have time to fix it later?"
>
>All best,
>Garth
>
Yes, after lightly sanding and first using a two-part
epoxy based primer on one boat that was painted with
Brightsides LP, and on two other boats that have latex
finish coats using Benjamin Moore's "FreshStart"
latex primer. Also there is one small area of graphite
that has Brightsides LP directly on the (lightly
sanded) graphite that has held up well.
I'd suggest you make up a test panel and try your
local primers and topcoats of choice. Another thought,
just topside paint to the graphite line for now and
after a few cruises you'll see the waterline develop,
then you can paint a few inches above and below that
with the best local antifouling to avoid the
"scumline" effect.
Rick
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
epoxy based primer on one boat that was painted with
Brightsides LP, and on two other boats that have latex
finish coats using Benjamin Moore's "FreshStart"
latex primer. Also there is one small area of graphite
that has Brightsides LP directly on the (lightly
sanded) graphite that has held up well.
I'd suggest you make up a test panel and try your
local primers and topcoats of choice. Another thought,
just topside paint to the graphite line for now and
after a few cruises you'll see the waterline develop,
then you can paint a few inches above and below that
with the best local antifouling to avoid the
"scumline" effect.
Rick
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
>
> Have you ever tried painting over that graphite mix?
> Does it hold
> paint at all?
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
>
Paint will not stick well to epoxy/graphite mix. But I have also
heard that the graphite in the mix seems to protect epoxy from the
usual UV degradation problems that epoxy would normally experience
without paint.
heard that the graphite in the mix seems to protect epoxy from the
usual UV degradation problems that epoxy would normally experience
without paint.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
>Have you ever tried painting over that graphite mix? Does it hold
> paint at all?
>
> All best,
> Garth
I can't help on this one; the boats I've built are never in the water for more than 48 hrs. However, I have had standing water in the boat for a couple of weeks or so, with no bubbling or peeling. I think (or it is my opinion, if you prefer) theat long term bubbling/peeling ids more likely do to water getting to the wood and causing the wood to expand, contract, or otherwise move. Plywood is pretty stable, and paint over epoxy should seal it, even if the boat is in the water for an extended time. However, the foregoing is based on conjecture, not experience--I 've been wrong before!
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: GarthAB
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 2:29 PM
Subject: [bolger] Paint below waterline?
I've used latex house paint over Ace Brand Premium latex primner on
most of my little boats, over epoxy or over bare wood, and it holds
on just fine.
But those boats just see day use. Now I'm about to paint Cormorant,
which will (I hope) have stints of a week or two at a time in the
water. Below the waterline, will latex paint over latex primer bubble
off after a week or two of immersion?
A couple of recommendations I've gotten from friends on this matter:
-- Try Rustoleum primer and paint.
-- Try Home Depot's marine-grade paint. (No idea what exactly it is.)
Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
Many thanks,
Garth
P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics -- I'm not a good enough
builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very much. I'll probably go
with a satin or other flattish finish to hide most of my
bumps/lumps/edges, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Garth-
If you are going to sand and recoat the bottom anyway. Have you
considered copper flake? Unless your waters are very warm in two or
three weeks you should be able to wipe growth off the graphite. THe
copper powder should halt most of the growth(hard) while the beard
if any could be wiped off with a sponge or brush.
I covered my bottom with dynel and then put four thin coats of
copper/poxy on to smooth it all out fair.....not bad for my first
time. Once i rolled the boat back over i marked the water line
masked it and coperpoxied up to the tape...3 coats of fast set in
the heat of the day in about 1.5 hours and then peeled the tape 20
minutes after the last coat.....looks good. Looks like a nice shiney
new penny(maybe it will turn green after sitting in the water for a
while?)
I think my mix was 5oz of copper to each 8 oz of epoxy.....i could
double check if you want. The stuff was only a few bucks a pound and
it came from progressive epoxies(?) in NH. I only used less than 1/2
of my 5 pound can.
Jason
If you are going to sand and recoat the bottom anyway. Have you
considered copper flake? Unless your waters are very warm in two or
three weeks you should be able to wipe growth off the graphite. THe
copper powder should halt most of the growth(hard) while the beard
if any could be wiped off with a sponge or brush.
I covered my bottom with dynel and then put four thin coats of
copper/poxy on to smooth it all out fair.....not bad for my first
time. Once i rolled the boat back over i marked the water line
masked it and coperpoxied up to the tape...3 coats of fast set in
the heat of the day in about 1.5 hours and then peeled the tape 20
minutes after the last coat.....looks good. Looks like a nice shiney
new penny(maybe it will turn green after sitting in the water for a
while?)
I think my mix was 5oz of copper to each 8 oz of epoxy.....i could
double check if you want. The stuff was only a few bucks a pound and
it came from progressive epoxies(?) in NH. I only used less than 1/2
of my 5 pound can.
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@y...> wrote:
The graphite mostly is below the waterline, except up by the bow and
back by the stern, where the bit that wraps around about three inches
of the bottom/bilge edge, probably does extend up above the
waterline. Mainly I covered the whole bottom panel, plus that three
inch wrap to take the beating of gravel beaches, etc.
Have you ever tried painting over that graphite mix? Does it hold
paint at all?
All best,
Garth
> Yes dynel is as good.Rick --
>
> Does the graphite extend above the waterline?
The graphite mostly is below the waterline, except up by the bow and
back by the stern, where the bit that wraps around about three inches
of the bottom/bilge edge, probably does extend up above the
waterline. Mainly I covered the whole bottom panel, plus that three
inch wrap to take the beating of gravel beaches, etc.
Have you ever tried painting over that graphite mix? Does it hold
paint at all?
All best,
Garth
Yes dynel is as good.
Does the graphite extend above the waterline?
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
Does the graphite extend above the waterline?
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
> Hi Rick, Don, and Will --
>
> Sorry, I should have specified -- I actually did
> just sheathe the
> whole bottom in Dynel (similar to Xynole?) with a
> fumed silica +
> graphite mix filling the weave. Black as night and
> hard as a rock.
>
> The paint I'm wondering about will go on the bilge
> panels, which have
> a significant portion below the waterline, then
> wrapping up onto the
> sides. Really I should mark out the waterline and
> use antifouling on
> those sections, but sheer laziness led to me wonder
> if I could get
> away with just painting them all one color, using
> whatever would also
> be above the waterline.
>
> Postscript to this is that I really bollixed the
> bottom finish. It
> has pock marks and bumps and all kinds of mess. The
> epoxy kicked off
> before I could smoothe it out right. The usual --
> trying to do too
> much at once. I'll never learn. So now I'm
> contemplating sanding the
> whole damn thing down a bit and applying one last,
> smooth, layer of
> the graphite/silica mix. Argggh!
>
> A mantra I repeat to myself often when working on
> boats, and which
> never really sinks in deep enough: "If you don't
> have time to do it
> right in the first place, how will you have time to
> fix it later?"
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard
> <sctree@y...> wrote:
> > More important than peeling off you need two
> things,
> > abrasion resistance and a finish that will
> either
> > not allow marine growth or be easy to wash off
> on
> > hauling. If you haven't sheathed the bottom yet
> > consider an epoxy/xynole/graphite bottom with no
> > paint. Xynole is a few dollars more than glass
> cloth
> > and the graphite will cost you less than ten
> bucks,
> > the epoxy you would have used with the glass cloth
> > anyway.
> >
> > Xynole is easier than glass cloth to apply and
> very
> > abrasion resistant. The graphite makes it slick
> and
> > easy to clean off plus it protects the epoxy from
> UV
> > degradation. I have several boats done this way
> and
> > use my boats in both fresh and salt water for up
> to a
> > few weeks at a time over the last dozen years. I
> > also have a chunk of scrap ply with
> > epoxy/xynole/graphite which has been sitting on
> my
> > roof in the California sun for ten years now with
> no
> > visible ill effects.
> >
> > My next boat will get the same bottom treatment.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > --- GarthAB <garth@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Below the waterline,
> > >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Anyone have other suggestions, advice,
> experience?
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > > Garth
> > >
> > >
> > > P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics --
> I'm
> > > not a good enough
> > > builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very
> much.
> > > I'll probably go
> > > with a satin or other flattish finish to hide
> most
> > > of my
> > > bumps/lumps/edges, etc.
> > >
> > >
>
>
Hi Rick, Don, and Will --
Sorry, I should have specified -- I actually did just sheathe the
whole bottom in Dynel (similar to Xynole?) with a fumed silica +
graphite mix filling the weave. Black as night and hard as a rock.
The paint I'm wondering about will go on the bilge panels, which have
a significant portion below the waterline, then wrapping up onto the
sides. Really I should mark out the waterline and use antifouling on
those sections, but sheer laziness led to me wonder if I could get
away with just painting them all one color, using whatever would also
be above the waterline.
Postscript to this is that I really bollixed the bottom finish. It
has pock marks and bumps and all kinds of mess. The epoxy kicked off
before I could smoothe it out right. The usual -- trying to do too
much at once. I'll never learn. So now I'm contemplating sanding the
whole damn thing down a bit and applying one last, smooth, layer of
the graphite/silica mix. Argggh!
A mantra I repeat to myself often when working on boats, and which
never really sinks in deep enough: "If you don't have time to do it
right in the first place, how will you have time to fix it later?"
All best,
Garth
Sorry, I should have specified -- I actually did just sheathe the
whole bottom in Dynel (similar to Xynole?) with a fumed silica +
graphite mix filling the weave. Black as night and hard as a rock.
The paint I'm wondering about will go on the bilge panels, which have
a significant portion below the waterline, then wrapping up onto the
sides. Really I should mark out the waterline and use antifouling on
those sections, but sheer laziness led to me wonder if I could get
away with just painting them all one color, using whatever would also
be above the waterline.
Postscript to this is that I really bollixed the bottom finish. It
has pock marks and bumps and all kinds of mess. The epoxy kicked off
before I could smoothe it out right. The usual -- trying to do too
much at once. I'll never learn. So now I'm contemplating sanding the
whole damn thing down a bit and applying one last, smooth, layer of
the graphite/silica mix. Argggh!
A mantra I repeat to myself often when working on boats, and which
never really sinks in deep enough: "If you don't have time to do it
right in the first place, how will you have time to fix it later?"
All best,
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@y...> wrote:
> More important than peeling off you need two things,
> abrasion resistance and a finish that will either
> not allow marine growth or be easy to wash off on
> hauling. If you haven't sheathed the bottom yet
> consider an epoxy/xynole/graphite bottom with no
> paint. Xynole is a few dollars more than glass cloth
> and the graphite will cost you less than ten bucks,
> the epoxy you would have used with the glass cloth
> anyway.
>
> Xynole is easier than glass cloth to apply and very
> abrasion resistant. The graphite makes it slick and
> easy to clean off plus it protects the epoxy from UV
> degradation. I have several boats done this way and
> use my boats in both fresh and salt water for up to a
> few weeks at a time over the last dozen years. I
> also have a chunk of scrap ply with
> epoxy/xynole/graphite which has been sitting on my
> roof in the California sun for ten years now with no
> visible ill effects.
>
> My next boat will get the same bottom treatment.
>
> Rick
>
> --- GarthAB <garth@b...> wrote:
>
> Below the waterline,
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> > Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Garth
> >
> >
> > P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics -- I'm
> > not a good enough
> > builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very much.
> > I'll probably go
> > with a satin or other flattish finish to hide most
> > of my
> > bumps/lumps/edges, etc.
> >
> >
More important than peeling off you need two things,
abrasion resistance and a finish that will either
not allow marine growth or be easy to wash off on
hauling. If you haven't sheathed the bottom yet
consider an epoxy/xynole/graphite bottom with no
paint. Xynole is a few dollars more than glass cloth
and the graphite will cost you less than ten bucks,
the epoxy you would have used with the glass cloth
anyway.
Xynole is easier than glass cloth to apply and very
abrasion resistant. The graphite makes it slick and
easy to clean off plus it protects the epoxy from UV
degradation. I have several boats done this way and
use my boats in both fresh and salt water for up to a
few weeks at a time over the last dozen years. I
also have a chunk of scrap ply with
epoxy/xynole/graphite which has been sitting on my
roof in the California sun for ten years now with no
visible ill effects.
My next boat will get the same bottom treatment.
Rick
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
Below the waterline,
abrasion resistance and a finish that will either
not allow marine growth or be easy to wash off on
hauling. If you haven't sheathed the bottom yet
consider an epoxy/xynole/graphite bottom with no
paint. Xynole is a few dollars more than glass cloth
and the graphite will cost you less than ten bucks,
the epoxy you would have used with the glass cloth
anyway.
Xynole is easier than glass cloth to apply and very
abrasion resistant. The graphite makes it slick and
easy to clean off plus it protects the epoxy from UV
degradation. I have several boats done this way and
use my boats in both fresh and salt water for up to a
few weeks at a time over the last dozen years. I
also have a chunk of scrap ply with
epoxy/xynole/graphite which has been sitting on my
roof in the California sun for ten years now with no
visible ill effects.
My next boat will get the same bottom treatment.
Rick
--- GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
Below the waterline,
><snip>
> Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
>
> Many thanks,
> Garth
>
>
> P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics -- I'm
> not a good enough
> builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very much.
> I'll probably go
> with a satin or other flattish finish to hide most
> of my
> bumps/lumps/edges, etc.
>
>
I doubt you would find a paint chemist who would agree with that,
DonB
DonB
> But those boats just see day use. Now I'm about to paint Cormorant,
> which will (I hope) have stints of a week or two at a time in the
> water. Below the waterline, will latex paint over latex primer bubble
> off after a week or two of immersion?
>
> A couple of recommendations I've gotten from friends on this matter:
>
> -- Try Rustoleum primer and paint.
> -- Try Home Depot's marine-grade paint. (No idea what exactly it is.)
>
> Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
>
> Many thanks,
> Garth
>
>
> P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics -- I'm not a good enough
> builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very much. I'll probably go
> with a satin or other flattish finish to hide most of my
> bumps/lumps/edges, etc.
But those boats just see day use. Now I'm about to paint Cormorant,
which will (I hope) have stints of a week or two at a time in the
water. Below the waterline, will latex paint over latex primer bubble
off after a week or two of immersion?
A couple of recommendations I've gotten from friends on this matter:
-- Try Rustoleum primer and paint.
-- Try Home Depot's marine-grade paint. (No idea what exactly it is.)
Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
Many thanks,
Garth
The standard solution below the waterline is to put anti-fouling paint over the bare epoxy. Messy, but works well.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
which will (I hope) have stints of a week or two at a time in the
water. Below the waterline, will latex paint over latex primer bubble
off after a week or two of immersion?
A couple of recommendations I've gotten from friends on this matter:
-- Try Rustoleum primer and paint.
-- Try Home Depot's marine-grade paint. (No idea what exactly it is.)
Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
Many thanks,
Garth
The standard solution below the waterline is to put anti-fouling paint over the bare epoxy. Messy, but works well.
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've used latex house paint over Ace Brand Premium latex primner on
most of my little boats, over epoxy or over bare wood, and it holds
on just fine.
But those boats just see day use. Now I'm about to paint Cormorant,
which will (I hope) have stints of a week or two at a time in the
water. Below the waterline, will latex paint over latex primer bubble
off after a week or two of immersion?
A couple of recommendations I've gotten from friends on this matter:
-- Try Rustoleum primer and paint.
-- Try Home Depot's marine-grade paint. (No idea what exactly it is.)
Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
Many thanks,
Garth
P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics -- I'm not a good enough
builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very much. I'll probably go
with a satin or other flattish finish to hide most of my
bumps/lumps/edges, etc.
most of my little boats, over epoxy or over bare wood, and it holds
on just fine.
But those boats just see day use. Now I'm about to paint Cormorant,
which will (I hope) have stints of a week or two at a time in the
water. Below the waterline, will latex paint over latex primer bubble
off after a week or two of immersion?
A couple of recommendations I've gotten from friends on this matter:
-- Try Rustoleum primer and paint.
-- Try Home Depot's marine-grade paint. (No idea what exactly it is.)
Anyone have other suggestions, advice, experience?
Many thanks,
Garth
P.S. I don't care too much about esthetics -- I'm not a good enough
builder to make a 1-meter finish matter very much. I'll probably go
with a satin or other flattish finish to hide most of my
bumps/lumps/edges, etc.