Re: 200 sqft. lug sail mast?
Bruce,
Your boat is amazingly beutiful...
You should be very proud.
Can't wait to see pics of her on the water...
Sincerly,
A2
Your boat is amazingly beutiful...
You should be very proud.
Can't wait to see pics of her on the water...
Sincerly,
A2
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > Beautiful photos Bruce! Is there a place where you keep these - like
> > a web site? I have been out of the loop for awhile.
> >
> > Thanks, Nels
>
> The URL
>http://community.webshots.com/album/121069753OCENAu
> points to the major photo album, and
> click around to see another more recent.
>
> Responding to Rick:
>
> Yes, the fid might get pulled up by the halyards
> and if it does I will probably just bolt or screw it
> down to the fid shelf.
> Beautiful photos Bruce! Is there a place where you keep these - likeThe URL
> a web site? I have been out of the loop for awhile.
>
> Thanks, Nels
http://community.webshots.com/album/121069753OCENAu
points to the major photo album, and
click around to see another more recent.
Responding to Rick:
Yes, the fid might get pulled up by the halyards
and if it does I will probably just bolt or screw it
down to the fid shelf.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
all:-)
Nels
> > So your partner somehow hinges or goes from twopiece to one?Doh! Ignore that last post! I clicked the link again and got them
> > Jason
>
> Look at:
>
all:-)
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
a web site? I have been out of the loop for awhile.
Thanks, Nels
> > So your partner somehow hinges or goes from twopiece to one?Beautiful photos Bruce! Is there a place where you keep these - like
> > Jason
>
> Look at:
>
>http://community.webshots.com/photo/121069753/121101538mdwYoG
>http://community.webshots.com/photo/121069753/121101603ZYixru
>
a web site? I have been out of the loop for awhile.
Thanks, Nels
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
lines pull in an upward direction on
control lines would need to be readjusted, and if the
lashing came loose.... well let's not let that happen.
Some sort of a hinged chock or cleat to take the
lifting load?
Ahh, I'm sure you'll do fine....
Rick
> > Yes, just the lashing.<snip>
lines pull in an upward direction on
> the fid, never the less, the lashings shouldYes, but if the lashings loosened just a bit all the
> restrain it fine.
>
> After all, it is only a 15'4" long sailboat.
>
control lines would need to be readjusted, and if the
lashing came loose.... well let's not let that happen.
Some sort of a hinged chock or cleat to take the
lifting load?
Ahh, I'm sure you'll do fine....
Rick
> Yes, just the lashing. In truth, there is very littleJust after I clicked 'send' I realized that the
> force on the fid in the upward direction.
pulleys for the halyards, topping lifts, and
reefing lines pull in an upward direction on
the fid, never the less, the lashings should
restrain it fine.
After all, it is only a 15'4" long sailboat.
> What keeps your fid from being lifted up? Just theYes, just the lashing. In truth, there is very little
> lashings?
> Rick
force on the fid in the upward direction.
Bruce,
What keeps your fid from being lifted up? Just the
lashings?
Rick
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
What keeps your fid from being lifted up? Just the
lashings?
Rick
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> > So your partner somehow hinges or goes from
> twopiece to one?
Jason,
You can get this stick upright, and then back down
safely by yourself with some creative thought. I'm not
sure I'm clear on the geometry of your
pilothouse/partners/maststep in relation to your
bulkheads, (is there a photo posted somewhere?), but
if I recall correctly you've limited the angle the
mast has to be dropped into by closing in the well to
the point a pivoting tabernacle won't work? Perhaps a
temporary crutch on the transom or aft pilothouse
bulkhead to support the back half of the mast while
you engage the butt end to he maststep or capture it
in some sort of sliding guide could be worked out. Or
if you only need to step the mast while still on the
trailer, use a block and tackle from a gin pole
attached to the trailer to make easy work of it..
There's enough collective brains and experience in
this group to solve this in short order, but as always
we need pictures......
Rick
--- Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote:
You can get this stick upright, and then back down
safely by yourself with some creative thought. I'm not
sure I'm clear on the geometry of your
pilothouse/partners/maststep in relation to your
bulkheads, (is there a photo posted somewhere?), but
if I recall correctly you've limited the angle the
mast has to be dropped into by closing in the well to
the point a pivoting tabernacle won't work? Perhaps a
temporary crutch on the transom or aft pilothouse
bulkhead to support the back half of the mast while
you engage the butt end to he maststep or capture it
in some sort of sliding guide could be worked out. Or
if you only need to step the mast while still on the
trailer, use a block and tackle from a gin pole
attached to the trailer to make easy work of it..
There's enough collective brains and experience in
this group to solve this in short order, but as always
we need pictures......
Rick
--- Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote:
>
> > Do you get what I mean?
> So your partner somehow hinges or goes from twopiece to one?Look at:
> Jason
http://community.webshots.com/photo/121069753/121101538mdwYoG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/121069753/121101603ZYixru
The lower, lighter colored, piece (with the pulleys attached)
is loose, and fits in brackets attached to the inside of each
gunnel. I think the proper nautical term for that loose piece is a
'fid' and each bracket is a 'fid shelf'.
The forward piece, (is it called the 'partner'?), is solid in the boat,
and the fid is set into place after the mast is tilted to vertical.
I just lash the pieces together with some rope for security...
then I'm ready to go.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
inside the pilothouse:-)
wrote:
> Thanks Bruce.one?
> Ahhhhhh! So your partner somehow hinges or goes from twopiece to
>Nope, It's his partner who is raising the mast. That's Bruce sitting
> JAson
inside the pilothouse:-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
Ahhhhhh! So your partner somehow hinges or goes from twopiece to one?
JAson
>http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/stepmast.gifThanks Bruce.
>
> Shows a scale drawing of the geometry of
> how I step my mast. Notice that the balance
> point of the mast is forward of my hands, and
> the mast tips forward easily as I walk it up.
Ahhhhhh! So your partner somehow hinges or goes from twopiece to one?
JAson
http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/stepmast.gif
Shows a scale drawing of the geometry of
how I step my mast. Notice that the balance
point of the mast is forward of my hands, and
the mast tips forward easily as I walk it up.
Shows a scale drawing of the geometry of
how I step my mast. Notice that the balance
point of the mast is forward of my hands, and
the mast tips forward easily as I walk it up.
> Do you have your cabin roof on? Until you have a placeThe roof is on and it's scary up there with an 80 pound pipe.
> to stand on the cabin roof, stepping the mast would be
> a real tough task.
It must be my severe lack of grace. I cut the "experimental" mast
into my 16 foot boom.............back to the tabernacle drawing
board.
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
might be more practical to launch first and then step the mast over
the bow from the dock? I would prefer to have a partner with me to
help steady the bow and line up the foot of mast. But it may be
easier - and safer.
Also a person might keep their eyes open for abandoned flag poles or
tent poles from those big tents one sees at flea markets and so forth.
Seems to me like the NAVIGATOR version is meant more for staying at
a berth, than trailer sailing with.
I am beginning to view a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR, more as a summer
cottage and for extending the season on the water or just to stay in
over the weekend, and LESTAT as a camping trailer for when I want to
go somewhere else. Seems crazy having two boats but I will only need
one motor and one trailer and maybe even one set of sails, which are
major expenses.
Both boats would not cost more than one MICROTRAWLER with a T50 which
costs over 10 grand just for the motor.
But then my philosophy of sailing isn't really about going anywhere.
Drifting on a gentle breeze with Jimmy Buffer on the CD player, a
Malibu and orange juice at hand, a fishing line astern and not a
thought going through the brain is my idea of sailing:-)
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
>> I've read that article and thought about it......my problem isthat
> from way up on the top of the pilot house it's a long ways down toOoops I forgot all about the pilothouse! I wonder if it actually
> the partner and close in bulkhead 1 as opposed to the normal bow
> transom......The angle of a attack is brutal.
might be more practical to launch first and then step the mast over
the bow from the dock? I would prefer to have a partner with me to
help steady the bow and line up the foot of mast. But it may be
easier - and safer.
Also a person might keep their eyes open for abandoned flag poles or
tent poles from those big tents one sees at flea markets and so forth.
Seems to me like the NAVIGATOR version is meant more for staying at
a berth, than trailer sailing with.
I am beginning to view a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR, more as a summer
cottage and for extending the season on the water or just to stay in
over the weekend, and LESTAT as a camping trailer for when I want to
go somewhere else. Seems crazy having two boats but I will only need
one motor and one trailer and maybe even one set of sails, which are
major expenses.
Both boats would not cost more than one MICROTRAWLER with a T50 which
costs over 10 grand just for the motor.
But then my philosophy of sailing isn't really about going anywhere.
Drifting on a gentle breeze with Jimmy Buffer on the CD player, a
Malibu and orange juice at hand, a fishing line astern and not a
thought going through the brain is my idea of sailing:-)
Cheers, Nels
> knows what that one is that would prob. be the ticket. I built it 3Are you moving the mast step back towards the cabin?
> 1/4 " x 2 3/4" x 23 feet solid. It tapers down to about 2 1/4" up
> top. It seems a little flexy but it's the most i can step without
> terrorizing the boat ramp inhabitants.
A lug sail would require the mast to be located right at
the front face of the cabin window, I guess.
A tall thin mast like you made would be more suited as
a 'needle' mast, say like with the 'Leg'O Mutton w/Sprit Boom'
[rig #4 in 103 Sailing Rigs], with the sail lashed to the mast.
My wood mast, 3 3/4" round, (untapered) is not very difficult
to step into place. Sanding on top of the cabin gives just
the right angle to walk it up. I haven't weighed it, though I
guess it weighs 55-60 lbs? And, from up on the roof you
only need to lift half of that weight.
Do you have your cabin roof on? Until you have a place
to stand on the cabin roof, stepping the mast would be
a real tough task.
> > LESTAT'S mast is 3 3/4" X 3 3/4" at the partners and tapers toThe lug transfers all its force to the mast at the top and bottom,
> about the same as yours at the top I think.
while the triangular sail used the whole length of the luff. So, I
would worry than you need a stiffer mast for the lug sail.
Peter
> Do you get what I mean? This might be perfect for your set-up: NoI've read that article and thought about it......my problem is that
> need to open the bow at all:)
from way up on the top of the pilot house it's a long ways down to
the partner and close in bulkhead 1 as opposed to the normal bow
transom......The angle of a attack is brutal. I weight the pipe last
night 81 lbs........Bolger was thinking what? Hurricanes :)
Peter must be a master ninja when it comes to mast stepping.......as
i've fallen off my boat twice on dry land, taken out 3 bushes, a
fence(not mine) and my dog is now affraid of the work area.
After reading garth's post about Jim M's specs i guess my "new mast"
will end up being the yard and boom. No Wastage......that was the
plan on the experiment.
I guess i'll shape up the tabernacle posts this weekend and try and
get it a little more gracefull looking.
2012 launch or bust!
Jason
Hi Jason --
Cormorant also uses the Martha Jane mainsail, and Jim Michalak specs
the mainmast at 4 1/2" square, solid, tapering to 2 1/2", with the
straight taper beginning 4' up.
I told Jim I was thinking of going birdsmouth for my masts, and he
said birdsmouth masts aren't as stiff for a given diameter as a solid
mast, so I bumped mine up to 5" diameter.
I guess we need a Martha Jane builder to weigh in with what Bolger
specced that original at . . .
All best,
Garth
(still sanding)
Cormorant also uses the Martha Jane mainsail, and Jim Michalak specs
the mainmast at 4 1/2" square, solid, tapering to 2 1/2", with the
straight taper beginning 4' up.
I told Jim I was thinking of going birdsmouth for my masts, and he
said birdsmouth masts aren't as stiff for a given diameter as a solid
mast, so I bumped mine up to 5" diameter.
I guess we need a Martha Jane builder to weigh in with what Bolger
specced that original at . . .
All best,
Garth
(still sanding)
> What do you folks think would be the ideal and minimum dimensions
> for a 200 sqft balanced lug. Itis the MJ main sail so if anyone
> knows what that one is that would prob. be the ticket. I built it 3
> 1/4 " x 2 3/4" x 23 feet solid. It tapers down to about 2 1/4" up
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...> >
Can you step that thing simple enough or am i being a wimp. Mine
It is very simple - If you are Peter Lenihan - who used to lower and
raise it going under bridges. But I find it damned awkward. It is
actually nice to carry but the swinging it up in place, when you are
up on the boat where everyone can watch is not my idea of fun.
So I was reading in an old Elrowe LaRowe newsletter about a guy who
designed a "system" that is kind of half way between a tabernacle and
yet keeps the mast loose. You build a mini tabernacle that just
stickes upright above the deck. And then you have an open trough
arrangement and it pivots on the tabernacle about half way and lies
flat on the deck. So you just slide the bottom end of the mast into
the trough and walk it upright, drop the mast into place and install
the partner fid or whatever it is called. With this arrangement you
don't have to have the door in the bow to allow for the swing of the
lower part of the mast.
Now with the regular MICRO sail plan this trough has to be a lot
shorter because of the sail track. With your set-up it could be
longer providing more guidance and support of the bottom of the mast.
Do you get what I mean? This might be perfect for your set-up: No
need to open the bow at all:-)
Cheers, Nels
Can you step that thing simple enough or am i being a wimp. Mine
> was a bit bigger but i almost popped my shoulder out trying to stepHi Jason,
> it so i Planed it down to something i could handle. Plans make you
> have to measure :)
>
It is very simple - If you are Peter Lenihan - who used to lower and
raise it going under bridges. But I find it damned awkward. It is
actually nice to carry but the swinging it up in place, when you are
up on the boat where everyone can watch is not my idea of fun.
So I was reading in an old Elrowe LaRowe newsletter about a guy who
designed a "system" that is kind of half way between a tabernacle and
yet keeps the mast loose. You build a mini tabernacle that just
stickes upright above the deck. And then you have an open trough
arrangement and it pivots on the tabernacle about half way and lies
flat on the deck. So you just slide the bottom end of the mast into
the trough and walk it upright, drop the mast into place and install
the partner fid or whatever it is called. With this arrangement you
don't have to have the door in the bow to allow for the swing of the
lower part of the mast.
Now with the regular MICRO sail plan this trough has to be a lot
shorter because of the sail track. With your set-up it could be
longer providing more guidance and support of the bottom of the mast.
Do you get what I mean? This might be perfect for your set-up: No
need to open the bow at all:-)
Cheers, Nels
> LESTAT'S mast is 3 3/4" X 3 3/4" at the partners and tapers toabout the same as yours at the top I think.
************************************************
Nels-
Can you step that thing simple enough or am i being a wimp. Mine
was a bit bigger but i almost popped my shoulder out trying to step
it so i Planed it down to something i could handle. Plans make you
have to measure :)
Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
the same as yours at the top I think. It is four pieces of clear
eastern spruce of some kind, built to plan.
What did you make it out of? If it is aluminum it would be perfect:-)
My guess, not being a betting man is that it will be a bit bendy in
anything but light winds. Wrap it in carbon fiber tape. Probably not
suitable to use schrouds.
Notice the last three words at the end of the second sentence;-)
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> I'll try it and see what happens it's experimental. Would like toLESTAT'S mast is 3 3/4" X 3 3/4" at the partners and tapers to about
> hear what people think? Place your bets on what will
> happen!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Jason
the same as yours at the top I think. It is four pieces of clear
eastern spruce of some kind, built to plan.
What did you make it out of? If it is aluminum it would be perfect:-)
My guess, not being a betting man is that it will be a bit bendy in
anything but light winds. Wrap it in carbon fiber tape. Probably not
suitable to use schrouds.
Notice the last three words at the end of the second sentence;-)
Cheers, Nels
So i got wild streak and built a new mast for my micro(200sqft lug
sail). The tabernacle has been back burnered for now.
What do you folks think would be the ideal and minimum dimensions
for a 200 sqft balanced lug. Itis the MJ main sail so if anyone
knows what that one is that would prob. be the ticket. I built it 3
1/4 " x 2 3/4" x 23 feet solid. It tapers down to about 2 1/4" up
top. It seems a little flexy but it's the most i can step without
terrorizing the boat ramp inhabitants.
After all that laboring i think it may snap! Doh!
However, i did drop it off the deck of the boat this afternoon and
it took out the neibors fence without breaking itself so it's strong
just flexy.
I'll try it and see what happens it's experimental. Would like to
hear what people think? Place your bets on what will
happen!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jason
sail). The tabernacle has been back burnered for now.
What do you folks think would be the ideal and minimum dimensions
for a 200 sqft balanced lug. Itis the MJ main sail so if anyone
knows what that one is that would prob. be the ticket. I built it 3
1/4 " x 2 3/4" x 23 feet solid. It tapers down to about 2 1/4" up
top. It seems a little flexy but it's the most i can step without
terrorizing the boat ramp inhabitants.
After all that laboring i think it may snap! Doh!
However, i did drop it off the deck of the boat this afternoon and
it took out the neibors fence without breaking itself so it's strong
just flexy.
I'll try it and see what happens it's experimental. Would like to
hear what people think? Place your bets on what will
happen!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jason