Re: A Visit to Gloucester
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
supported by adjacent joints or mechanical fasteners.
per unit of thickness and the angles tend to brace each other against
outside forces. However it may not be as large a gain as I initially
imagined:-)
I guess with this type of mast one would have challenges attaching
sails and gaffs that are required to slide up and down the mast?
Cheers, Nels
>>I don't trust scarf joints all that much. Usually a scarf joint is
> The aspect ratio of that joint is far shallower than that of a scarf
> joint, so, if you trust scarf joints you should be able to trust my
> proposed vertical diagonal long joint.
supported by adjacent joints or mechanical fasteners.
>Two reasons that come to mind is that there is more gluing surface
> > And the birdsmouth joint is far stronger.
>
> ??? I am trying to imagine the reason you would assert that.
> I can't think of an engineering based reason. Not to mention
> that 'far stronger' doesn't matter, only 'strong enough' matters.
per unit of thickness and the angles tend to brace each other against
outside forces. However it may not be as large a gain as I initially
imagined:-)
I guess with this type of mast one would have challenges attaching
sails and gaffs that are required to slide up and down the mast?
Cheers, Nels
Like most good ideas, it's been done before a long time ago, although
not in wood, as far as I know.
The ones I've seen (in pictures only) were made of welded steel or
aluminim tubing. My guess as to why there are not too many of them
around is that, a) with steel at least, they could end up heavier
than the equivalent conventional mast (not a problem with a radio
mast once it's up) b) probably quite labour-intensive to build,
unless mass produced on a jig c) windage might not be great, but
disurbance to airflow over the sail would be greater than with a
conventional mast.
One advantage: they would make a great ladder.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...>
wrote:
not in wood, as far as I know.
The ones I've seen (in pictures only) were made of welded steel or
aluminim tubing. My guess as to why there are not too many of them
around is that, a) with steel at least, they could end up heavier
than the equivalent conventional mast (not a problem with a radio
mast once it's up) b) probably quite labour-intensive to build,
unless mass produced on a jig c) windage might not be great, but
disurbance to airflow over the sail would be greater than with a
conventional mast.
One advantage: they would make a great ladder.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@y...>
wrote:
> The mast would kind of look like a radio tower!
Since the strength does not come from the center areas
as much as the outer edges, why not remove some
centeral material and make a more truss like
structure. Just drilling large round holes at a
regular interval is one option. Or go to extremes and
use internal blocking or joining members between small
edge tension and compression members. Could the wind
resistance be greatly reduced with these techniques?
The mast would kind of look like a radio tower!
Gene T.
--- stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net wrote:
as much as the outer edges, why not remove some
centeral material and make a more truss like
structure. Just drilling large round holes at a
regular interval is one option. Or go to extremes and
use internal blocking or joining members between small
edge tension and compression members. Could the wind
resistance be greatly reduced with these techniques?
The mast would kind of look like a radio tower!
Gene T.
--- stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net wrote:
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/_0TolB/TM
>
> With the same amount of material, i.e. same weight,
> the Tee mast
> would be double width and depth than the boxed one.
>
> Since stiffness increases with the square (?) of the
> thickness in the
> bending direction, the doubled dimension of the Tee
> should be stiffer
> than two sides of a box, no?
>
> And since the joint in the Tee is closer to the
> centre (the neutral
> fibre), it would be less loaded than in the box, no?
>
> And as a compromise, there would still be the
> Double-Tee (or do you
> call it "H"?): Same open profile like the Tee (easy
> to inspect), and
> two joints (instead of one for the Tee and four for
> the box).
>
> Just trying to follow and learn...
>
> Cheers,
> Stefan
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
> <stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> >
> > It seems to me the main disadvantage of a tee mast
> is that too much
> > of its material is close to the centre. For
> maximum strength and
> > rigidity the material it's made of needs to be
> concentrated near
> > the outer surface of the mast. A simple
> rectangular box-section
> > would not be much harder to build and would be
> stronger for the
> > same depth and width.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Thanks Susan for the answer!
======================
suitable lumber for cheap on almost every visit. 1 in 20 is usually
pretty good. I start by looking for the 'Select Structural' grading.
joint, so, if you trust scarf joints you should be able to trust my
proposed vertical diagonal long joint.
I can't think of an engineering based reason. Not to mention
that 'far stronger' doesn't matter, only 'strong enough' matters.
======================
> Nels wrote:I pick through the stack of D.Fir at Home Depot often, and find
> First of all - would be the challenge of finding sound stock of the
> length needed for the mast so that only one glue joint is required.
suitable lumber for cheap on almost every visit. 1 in 20 is usually
pretty good. I start by looking for the 'Select Structural' grading.
> Next thing to question, is the shear strength of a butt joint of thatThe aspect ratio of that joint is far shallower than that of a scarf
> length over time and the countless small flexings (Flexations?).
joint, so, if you trust scarf joints you should be able to trust my
proposed vertical diagonal long joint.
> And the birdsmouth joint is far stronger.??? I am trying to imagine the reason you would assert that.
I can't think of an engineering based reason. Not to mention
that 'far stronger' doesn't matter, only 'strong enough' matters.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
hollow masts with aluminum pipe an option if one can afford it. Grown
sticks if one can find them.
if it is all that simpler or labour intensive than a round mast.
First of all - would be the challenge of finding sound stock of the
length needed for the mast so that only one glue joint is required.
Next thing to question, is the shear strength of a butt joint of that
length over time and the countless small flexings (Flexations?).
By the time one adds fillets and tapers and gluing parts back on -
the possible need for scarfs - then the amount of work and expense
approachs the amount for a birdsmouth. And the birdsmouth joint is
far stronger.
Why does one need to inspect the interior of a mast?
Cheers, Nels
> My real question is: What type of masts and spars are on the I60?I expect they will be either birdsmouth or other forms of laminated
hollow masts with aluminum pipe an option if one can afford it. Grown
sticks if one can find them.
>I agree that what you suggest has merit in theory but I am not sure
> And, secondarily: Why hasn't Bolger used "tee shapes" for masts.
>
> The Tee mast could be made even more stiff, with the same
> amount of material, by ripping off triangles with your Skilsaw,
> flipping them end for end and glueing them back on before
> glueing the two staves together.
if it is all that simpler or labour intensive than a round mast.
First of all - would be the challenge of finding sound stock of the
length needed for the mast so that only one glue joint is required.
Next thing to question, is the shear strength of a butt joint of that
length over time and the countless small flexings (Flexations?).
By the time one adds fillets and tapers and gluing parts back on -
the possible need for scarfs - then the amount of work and expense
approachs the amount for a birdsmouth. And the birdsmouth joint is
far stronger.
Why does one need to inspect the interior of a mast?
Cheers, Nels
> My real question is: What type of masts and spars are on the I60?Masts: they're round; it's unclear whether they're solid or
birdsmouth. I'll doublecheck the draft that I have of the plans after
work.
Booms and gaffs: tapered T-sections.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Stefan wrote:My real question is: What type of masts and spars are on the I60?
> With the same amount of material, i.e. same weight, the Tee mast
> would be double width and depth than the boxed one.
And, secondarily: Why hasn't Bolger used "tee shapes" for masts.
The Tee mast could be made even more stiff, with the same
amount of material, by ripping off triangles with your Skilsaw,
flipping them end for end and glueing them back on before
glueing the two staves together.
http://hallman.org/taperedtee.gif
With the same amount of material, i.e. same weight, the Tee mast
would be double width and depth than the boxed one.
Since stiffness increases with the square (?) of the thickness in the
bending direction, the doubled dimension of the Tee should be stiffer
than two sides of a box, no?
And since the joint in the Tee is closer to the centre (the neutral
fibre), it would be less loaded than in the box, no?
And as a compromise, there would still be the Double-Tee (or do you
call it "H"?): Same open profile like the Tee (easy to inspect), and
two joints (instead of one for the Tee and four for the box).
Just trying to follow and learn...
Cheers,
Stefan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
would be double width and depth than the boxed one.
Since stiffness increases with the square (?) of the thickness in the
bending direction, the doubled dimension of the Tee should be stiffer
than two sides of a box, no?
And since the joint in the Tee is closer to the centre (the neutral
fibre), it would be less loaded than in the box, no?
And as a compromise, there would still be the Double-Tee (or do you
call it "H"?): Same open profile like the Tee (easy to inspect), and
two joints (instead of one for the Tee and four for the box).
Just trying to follow and learn...
Cheers,
Stefan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>
> It seems to me the main disadvantage of a tee mast is that too much
> of its material is close to the centre. For maximum strength and
> rigidity the material it's made of needs to be concentrated near
> the outer surface of the mast. A simple rectangular box-section
> would not be much harder to build and would be stronger for the
> same depth and width.
>
What was I thinking?
Howard
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > With the tee you would be applying glue to two surfaces; with the
> > box, you'd be applying it to four surfaces
>
> Here is a sketch of how I count the glue joints in a tee-mast.
>http://hallman.org/teemast.gif
>
> The joint could also be fastened with nails, no glue.
> With the tee you would be applying glue to two surfaces; with theHere is a sketch of how I count the glue joints in a tee-mast.
> box, you'd be applying it to four surfaces
http://hallman.org/teemast.gif
The joint could also be fastened with nails, no glue.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
box, you'd be applying it to four surfaces -- maybe a difference in
time of 20 minutes for a Superbrick. The tee mast would be more
difficult to hold in place before the glue sets. With the box, you'd
just assemble it on a flat floor and place some bricks along it.
But then, ignoring the need to scarf lengths together, the box
requires four pieces to be shaped, whereas the tee requires only two.
There's not much in it is there? And you are right of course that
Superbrick would be a good place to experiment.
I guess the Park Avenue idea is not much use with a loose-footed sail.
Next question: how many angels......?
Howard
> <mischeviously>With the tee you would be applying glue to two surfaces; with the
> A box mast would have four glue joints to make up,
> where a Tee mast would have only one. 4 times easier.
box, you'd be applying it to four surfaces -- maybe a difference in
time of 20 minutes for a Superbrick. The tee mast would be more
difficult to hold in place before the glue sets. With the box, you'd
just assemble it on a flat floor and place some bricks along it.
But then, ignoring the need to scarf lengths together, the box
requires four pieces to be shaped, whereas the tee requires only two.
There's not much in it is there? And you are right of course that
Superbrick would be a good place to experiment.
I guess the Park Avenue idea is not much use with a loose-footed sail.
Next question: how many angels......?
Howard
>Bill Kreamer wrote:True, and fair enough. But a T-mast would have some strength
>
> The stiffness of a Tee section is greatest in the orthogonal directions
> - for and aft and athwartships - whereas, in a mast, stiffness is needed
> in all the directions, at different times.
in the diagonal direction. As long as a mast is strong enough
in the diagonal direction, does it matter if it is too strong
fore, aft and athwartships? Probably not.
Especially, if what you are looking for
is a quick and cheap mast for your Superbrick.
The stiffness of a Tee section is greatest in the orthogonal directions
- for and aft and athwartships - whereas, in a mast, stiffness is needed
in all the directions, at different times. This is not true of a boom. A
hollow mast is stiffer for its weight, because the material near the
neutral axis (near the center) doesn't contribute to stiffness. The
sailers that preceded us knew it, it just wasn't easy to do given the
state of the joinery arts - weak non-waterproof glues, exacting joint
work, etc.
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:32
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A Visit to Gloucester
Well, then using a solid stick for a mast would be bad idea.
[Don't tell that to the centuries of sailers that precede us.]
Solid sticks are harder to find now.
Home Depot 2x8 lumber is easier to find now.
where a Tee mast would have only one. 4 times easier.
have
wind resistance too. Significantly less, I am not sure.
All I am thinking of is that a "Tee beam" mast would be super easy to
build, and would be strong. I wonder why Bolger hasn't used
them before, say, on Super Brick or another iconoclastic design.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- for and aft and athwartships - whereas, in a mast, stiffness is needed
in all the directions, at different times. This is not true of a boom. A
hollow mast is stiffer for its weight, because the material near the
neutral axis (near the center) doesn't contribute to stiffness. The
sailers that preceded us knew it, it just wasn't easy to do given the
state of the joinery arts - weak non-waterproof glues, exacting joint
work, etc.
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:32
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A Visit to Gloucester
>Howard Stephenson wrote:<mischeviously>
>
>
> It seems to me the main disadvantage of a tee mast is that too much
> of its material is close to the centre.
Well, then using a solid stick for a mast would be bad idea.
[Don't tell that to the centuries of sailers that precede us.]
Solid sticks are harder to find now.
Home Depot 2x8 lumber is easier to find now.
> A simple rectangular box-section would notA box mast would have four glue joints to make up,
> be much harder to build...
where a Tee mast would have only one. 4 times easier.
> It's a different situation with booms where, because windage does notI grant that a "T" has wind resistance. I can see that "O"'s and boxes
> affect to the same extent the flow of air onto the sail,
have
wind resistance too. Significantly less, I am not sure.
All I am thinking of is that a "Tee beam" mast would be super easy to
build, and would be strong. I wonder why Bolger hasn't used
them before, say, on Super Brick or another iconoclastic design.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Old-timers had a wide choice of suitable trees and no access to
waterproof glues. And of course a certain amount of flexibility in a
mast is good structurally and aerodynamically.
Howard
waterproof glues. And of course a certain amount of flexibility in a
mast is good structurally and aerodynamically.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> <mischeviously>
> Well, then using a solid stick for a mast would be bad idea.
> [Don't tell that to the centuries of sailers that precede us.]
>Howard Stephenson wrote:<mischeviously>
>
>
> It seems to me the main disadvantage of a tee mast is that too much
> of its material is close to the centre.
Well, then using a solid stick for a mast would be bad idea.
[Don't tell that to the centuries of sailers that precede us.]
Solid sticks are harder to find now.
Home Depot 2x8 lumber is easier to find now.
> A simple rectangular box-section would notA box mast would have four glue joints to make up,
> be much harder to build...
where a Tee mast would have only one. 4 times easier.
> It's a different situation with booms where, because windage does notI grant that a "T" has wind resistance. I can see that "O"'s and boxes have
> affect to the same extent the flow of air onto the sail,
wind resistance too. Significantly less, I am not sure.
All I am thinking of is that a "Tee beam" mast would be super easy to
build, and would be strong. I wonder why Bolger hasn't used
them before, say, on Super Brick or another iconoclastic design.
It seems to me the main disadvantage of a tee mast is that too much
of its material is close to the centre. For maximum strength and
rigidity the material it's made of needs to be concentrated near the
outer surface of the mast. A simple rectangular box-section would not
be much harder to build and would be stronger for the same depth and
width.
It's a different situation with booms where, because windage does not
affect to the same extent the flow of air onto the sail, being larger
than a hollow section for the same strength is not such a
disadvantage and could even produce a certain amount of drive.
A tee boom could be the basis of a Park Avenue boom. See an example
at:
http://www.swedenyachts.se/nyheter/easy%20up%20easy%20down.htm
Howard
of its material is close to the centre. For maximum strength and
rigidity the material it's made of needs to be concentrated near the
outer surface of the mast. A simple rectangular box-section would not
be much harder to build and would be stronger for the same depth and
width.
It's a different situation with booms where, because windage does not
affect to the same extent the flow of air onto the sail, being larger
than a hollow section for the same strength is not such a
disadvantage and could even produce a certain amount of drive.
A tee boom could be the basis of a Park Avenue boom. See an example
at:
http://www.swedenyachts.se/nyheter/easy%20up%20easy%20down.htm
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
> Are the masts also "Tee beams"? The more I
> think about it, the more I am surprised that
> Bolger and Altenberger have not used "tee beam"
> masts on some design. I cannot think of a reason
> why it would not work as well, or better than a "box
> beam" mast.
You could tidy up the aerodynamics by filling the gaps with
styrofoam and a light epoxy/glass wrap. Would be easy and effective,
DonB
styrofoam and a light epoxy/glass wrap. Would be easy and effective,
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
>
> Are the masts also "Tee beams"? The more I
> think about it, the more I am surprised that
> Bolger and Altenberger have not used "tee beam"
> masts on some design. I cannot think of a reason
> why it would not work as well, or better than a "box
> beam" mast. A "Tee beam" having the advantage
> of having being easy to fabricate and having no interior
> spaces unavailable to inspect. I suppose there are
> some aerodynamic shortcomings of a "Tee" shaped
> mast, but I would like to see that quantified before
> dismissing the idea.
> the Folding Schooner are simple 1/3's, and bend easily in theIndeed, I think that the battens on Micro Navigator are
> horizontal direction. It takes some unusally clear thinking to see
> this doesn't matter very much. Takes some getting used to, though.
>
> Peter
like small booms, in a way, and the horizontal bend
in the battens helps the airfoil shape of the sail.
> I presume you mean that the booms and gaffs areThe "T" booms were common 30 years ago, but I not seen them
> built up from two pieces of lumber, fastened into
> a "Tee-Beam"?
specified so much lately. I was amused to discover that the booms of
the Folding Schooner are simple 1/3's, and bend easily in the
horizontal direction. It takes some unusally clear thinking to see
this doesn't matter very much. Takes some getting used to, though.
Peter
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:50 -0400, David Ryan wrote:
built up from two pieces of lumber, fastened into
a "Tee-Beam"?
Are the masts also "Tee beams"? The more I
think about it, the more I am surprised that
Bolger and Altenberger have not used "tee beam"
masts on some design. I cannot think of a reason
why it would not work as well, or better than a "box
beam" mast. A "Tee beam" having the advantage
of having being easy to fabricate and having no interior
spaces unavailable to inspect. I suppose there are
some aerodynamic shortcomings of a "Tee" shaped
mast, but I would like to see that quantified before
dismissing the idea.
> As for the I60, .... The biggest relief to me are the spars ...I presume you mean that the booms and gaffs are
> substantially less complex in terms of materials and/or
> manufacture than I first imagined...
built up from two pieces of lumber, fastened into
a "Tee-Beam"?
Are the masts also "Tee beams"? The more I
think about it, the more I am surprised that
Bolger and Altenberger have not used "tee beam"
masts on some design. I cannot think of a reason
why it would not work as well, or better than a "box
beam" mast. A "Tee beam" having the advantage
of having being easy to fabricate and having no interior
spaces unavailable to inspect. I suppose there are
some aerodynamic shortcomings of a "Tee" shaped
mast, but I would like to see that quantified before
dismissing the idea.
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:00:50 -0400, David Ryan wrote:
built up from two pieces of lumber, fastened into
a "Tee-Beam"?
Are the masts also "Tee beams"? The more I
think about it, the more I am surprised that
Bolger and Altenberger have not used "tee beam"
masts on some design. I cannot think of a reason
why it would not work as well, or better than a "box
beam" mast. A "Tee beam" having the advantage
of having being easy to fabricate and having no interior
spaces unavailable to inspect. I suppose there are
some aerodynamic shortcomings of a "Tee" shaped
mast, but I would like to see that quantified before
dismissing the idea.
> As for the I60, .... TheI presume you mean that the booms and gaffs are
> biggest relief to me are the spars ...
> substantially less complex in terms of materials and/or
> manufacture than I first imagined...
built up from two pieces of lumber, fastened into
a "Tee-Beam"?
Are the masts also "Tee beams"? The more I
think about it, the more I am surprised that
Bolger and Altenberger have not used "tee beam"
masts on some design. I cannot think of a reason
why it would not work as well, or better than a "box
beam" mast. A "Tee beam" having the advantage
of having being easy to fabricate and having no interior
spaces unavailable to inspect. I suppose there are
some aerodynamic shortcomings of a "Tee" shaped
mast, but I would like to see that quantified before
dismissing the idea.
I don't think you'll need my library card number to read it from a .pdf.
http://tinyurl.com/636z3
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=10&did=000000679595841&SrchMode=1&sid=6&Fmt=6&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1093665597&clientId=11892
The only thing it's missing to be Bolger is a giant lug sail.
Mark
Bruce Hallman wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/636z3
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=10&did=000000679595841&SrchMode=1&sid=6&Fmt=6&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1093665597&clientId=11892
The only thing it's missing to be Bolger is a giant lug sail.
Mark
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately many of us poor slobs live in places where National
> > Fisherman does not exist. Never saw it up here in Saskatchewan anyway.
>
> If your local library subscribes to InfoTrac, a full text version
> of the Bolger article with images is available online.
>
> Ask your librarian.
>
> I just read the article, and it is a big boat, with the premise that
> saving fuel costs can make the difference in profitablity.
>
> Plywood, inboard diesel power, lots of foam insulation.
>
> One criticism was that the fishing pemits are charged by the foot
> and the Bolger boat was long and narrow and penalized for the
> 70 foot length.
> º
Regarding new types of boats needing new types of fisheris to make a
breakthorough:
Recently my mother sent me an article from the local Gloucester paper
about a new fishery/ new type of fishing boat in Gloucester-- for slime
eels. Apparently an eyeless primitive fish, they are caught in pots
using bait, on day trips if I recall correctly. The market is
exclusively in Korea, and two Korean businessmen hae started up two
companies. The article talked about a boat that had been specific built
for slime eels, and that after a lot of teething problems, was starting
to turn a profit. The captains of the various boats have trouble getting
crew at times-- the ells are unpleasnat to handle and apparently smell
pretty bad too.
So new fisheries are being explored even now.
Maybe we'll see a Bolger slime eel boat soon.
Ed Vaitones
________________________________________________________________
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breakthorough:
Recently my mother sent me an article from the local Gloucester paper
about a new fishery/ new type of fishing boat in Gloucester-- for slime
eels. Apparently an eyeless primitive fish, they are caught in pots
using bait, on day trips if I recall correctly. The market is
exclusively in Korea, and two Korean businessmen hae started up two
companies. The article talked about a boat that had been specific built
for slime eels, and that after a lot of teething problems, was starting
to turn a profit. The captains of the various boats have trouble getting
crew at times-- the ells are unpleasnat to handle and apparently smell
pretty bad too.
So new fisheries are being explored even now.
Maybe we'll see a Bolger slime eel boat soon.
Ed Vaitones
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
That might be so, but after watching the movie "Perfect Storm" one might wonder about the seaworthiness of any design!!!!
I'm just wondering if David saw any other designs that the Bolgers were currently working on, in particular "Silver Blaze" a composite strip-planked "Torpedo-sterned" inboard runabout with a retractable propeller system utilising "Aqua Drive"CV joints that they're currently (for the last 18 months) been working on for me?
Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
different fishery, either in location or method. After all, you
can't carry a net that's a mile long in a skiff. Fishermen are very
conservative, as well they ought to be. I would guess that it is the
old fisherman's young grandson that will give the new boat a try.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm just wondering if David saw any other designs that the Bolgers were currently working on, in particular "Silver Blaze" a composite strip-planked "Torpedo-sterned" inboard runabout with a retractable propeller system utilising "Aqua Drive"CV joints that they're currently (for the last 18 months) been working on for me?
Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> I also suspect that the PB&F idea just might beChances are that a very different boat will also mean a somewhat
> a good one, and if so, it will have a chance to
> help a lot of people, including many poor ones.
different fishery, either in location or method. After all, you
can't carry a net that's a mile long in a skiff. Fishermen are very
conservative, as well they ought to be. I would guess that it is the
old fisherman's young grandson that will give the new boat a try.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've actually just got off the phone with Suzanne. I had intended a
short call about what metal fabrication resources there are in our
area, but we wondered off, including a little more about the fishing
vessel in question. Aside from its performance attributes, the length
of the boat is in fact a deliberate provocation to show how the fishing
rules encourage the construction of inefficient craft in much the same
way that racing rules end up producing kinky sailboats.
In response to the fishing regulations, boat have been getting wider
and wider, requiring much more power, which requires more fuel, which
makes them heavier, with requires more power, which requires more
fuel... Some months ago when Phil first told me about this project (by
way of explaining the delays on the I60) he said they were now seeing
boat around two beams in length; not a very efficient shape for a
displacement hull.
YIBB,
David
short call about what metal fabrication resources there are in our
area, but we wondered off, including a little more about the fishing
vessel in question. Aside from its performance attributes, the length
of the boat is in fact a deliberate provocation to show how the fishing
rules encourage the construction of inefficient craft in much the same
way that racing rules end up producing kinky sailboats.
In response to the fishing regulations, boat have been getting wider
and wider, requiring much more power, which requires more fuel, which
makes them heavier, with requires more power, which requires more
fuel... Some months ago when Phil first told me about this project (by
way of explaining the delays on the I60) he said they were now seeing
boat around two beams in length; not a very efficient shape for a
displacement hull.
YIBB,
David
> One criticism was that the fishing pemits are charged by the foot
> and the Bolger boat was long and narrow and penalized for the
> 70 foot length.
> Unfortunately many of us poor slobs live in places where NationalIf your local library subscribes to InfoTrac, a full text version
> Fisherman does not exist. Never saw it up here in Saskatchewan anyway.
of the Bolger article with images is available online.
Ask your librarian.
I just read the article, and it is a big boat, with the premise that
saving fuel costs can make the difference in profitablity.
Plywood, inboard diesel power, lots of foam insulation.
One criticism was that the fishing pemits are charged by the foot
and the Bolger boat was long and narrow and penalized for the
70 foot length.
Yes, and if the boat's too different, he might have trouble recruiting a
crew and/or getting insurance.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
crew and/or getting insurance.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
> Fishermen are very conservative, as well they ought to be.
> I would guess that it is the old fisherman's young grandson
> that will give the new boat a try.
>
> Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
"It's disconcerting that these box boats do everything BETTER than
elaborately modeled boats of the same overall dimensions, if they
both have to carry the same load. Rounding or tapering take away
volume; the boat settles deeper in the water and makes deep, steeper
waves. It's possible that running the bottom straight back to a
perfectly rectangular stern would increase capacity more than
resistance." Which he does with FAST BRICK.
So the conclusion would seem to be that making the shape more complex
and therefore expensive, is not all that necessary except in the eye
of the beholder. I am sure many other naval architects have
discovered this but are just not courageous enough to let the public
in on it!
Of course FISHERMAN'S LAUNCH is a very beautiful shape with origins
in the Casco Bay workboat that originally was a sail boat. I was
trying to connect to what Romilly reminded me of in a Bolger Boat and
it is FISHERMAN'S LAUNCH.
The Gloucester fishing establishment might want to send a few
observers to Norway to see what they are doing. Seems a big part of
their cod fleet are small (under 30') fiberglass boats derived from
the Colin Archer rescue boat design. They use water ballast and
handline for cod, which is why they still have cod.
One other question for David. You mention that PCB&F are intersted in
metaphysics. Could you be a bit more specific? I'm hoping to visit
them myself, perhaps later this Fall and don't want to blunder into
places I may not be able to graciously recover my composure from. I
am very involved with energy medicine and kinesiology. A lot of that
is considered metaphysics. The term has a very negative connotation
with some people but it actually refers to a branch of philosophy
that dicusses the basics of the universe. Such as the law of
relativity.
I believe he also describes himself as a Libertarian? One who
advocates liberty and free will and self responsibility. Is that what
you may have noticed as well? He certainly reflects that in his
writing.
Thanks, Nels
>have
> This is not a small thing. Inherent in many of the discussions we
> here is the implication that if we could only afford it we'd havethe
> surely opt for a curvier boat; that our flat panels and hard chines
> were justified at the budgetary bottom end; and that they should be
> first thing to go when the money getting spent becomes moreserious.
> Many of the modern designs from PCB&F suggest that the benefits ofa
> flat-paneled, hard-chined hull have a place in more "serious" boatsI am reminded of PCB's comments in BWAOM regarding BRICK:
> with more serious construction budgets.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
"It's disconcerting that these box boats do everything BETTER than
elaborately modeled boats of the same overall dimensions, if they
both have to carry the same load. Rounding or tapering take away
volume; the boat settles deeper in the water and makes deep, steeper
waves. It's possible that running the bottom straight back to a
perfectly rectangular stern would increase capacity more than
resistance." Which he does with FAST BRICK.
So the conclusion would seem to be that making the shape more complex
and therefore expensive, is not all that necessary except in the eye
of the beholder. I am sure many other naval architects have
discovered this but are just not courageous enough to let the public
in on it!
Of course FISHERMAN'S LAUNCH is a very beautiful shape with origins
in the Casco Bay workboat that originally was a sail boat. I was
trying to connect to what Romilly reminded me of in a Bolger Boat and
it is FISHERMAN'S LAUNCH.
The Gloucester fishing establishment might want to send a few
observers to Norway to see what they are doing. Seems a big part of
their cod fleet are small (under 30') fiberglass boats derived from
the Colin Archer rescue boat design. They use water ballast and
handline for cod, which is why they still have cod.
One other question for David. You mention that PCB&F are intersted in
metaphysics. Could you be a bit more specific? I'm hoping to visit
them myself, perhaps later this Fall and don't want to blunder into
places I may not be able to graciously recover my composure from. I
am very involved with energy medicine and kinesiology. A lot of that
is considered metaphysics. The term has a very negative connotation
with some people but it actually refers to a branch of philosophy
that dicusses the basics of the universe. Such as the law of
relativity.
I believe he also describes himself as a Libertarian? One who
advocates liberty and free will and self responsibility. Is that what
you may have noticed as well? He certainly reflects that in his
writing.
Thanks, Nels
> I also suspect that the PB&F idea just might beChances are that a very different boat will also mean a somewhat
> a good one, and if so, it will have a chance to
> help a lot of people, including many poor ones.
different fishery, either in location or method. After all, you
can't carry a net that's a mile long in a skiff. Fishermen are very
conservative, as well they ought to be. I would guess that it is the
old fisherman's young grandson that will give the new boat a try.
Peter
> Susan in particular is working hard on promoting a lower-costAnd, or course, all the other beleaguered fishing industries
> commercial fishing design she hopes might provide some relief to the
> beleaguered Gloucester fishing industry.
around the world, I would suppose.
Any business, working on a hair thin profit margin,
will probably come around from 'tradition' and
superstition should they *see* a practical way to
safely make a buck.
I also suspect that the PB&F idea just might be
a good one, and if so, it will have a chance to
help a lot of people, including many poor ones.
> I've been kicking around some ideas for proposed class rules,I propose the following: First person to take a moderator of the
> but since we don't have a finished design yet,
> that's clearly putting the cart before the horse....
Yahoo boatdesign group sailing in an I60 wins.
Peter (moderator, boatdesign group)
David Ryan:
described it as his "toughest technical challenge to date," which says
quite a bit. (Did I send you a copy of that?)
I've been astonished by the bargain that we're getting, too, and I
hope to repay Phil and Suzanne by promoting the hell out of the
resulting racing class so that they can sell more copies of the
design. I've been kicking around some ideas for proposed class rules,
but since we don't have a finished design yet, that's clearly putting
the cart before the horse....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> As I saw the amount of work that's gone into [the I60], I feltIn the note that accompanied my copy of the preliminary sketches, PCB
> a little embarrassed at the price that Sue and I are paying for the
> design.
described it as his "toughest technical challenge to date," which says
quite a bit. (Did I send you a copy of that?)
I've been astonished by the bargain that we're getting, too, and I
hope to repay Phil and Suzanne by promoting the hell out of the
resulting racing class so that they can sell more copies of the
design. I've been kicking around some ideas for proposed class rules,
but since we don't have a finished design yet, that's clearly putting
the cart before the horse....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
Fisherman does not exist. Never saw it up here in Saskatchewan anyway.
So I am wondering if some kind soul could post some details of the
article.
And thanks David, for the report on your visit with the wonderful
people who made it all possible for me to be bugging you.
Reading that warmed my heart. These people are precious treasures and
we should do our best to support their efforts.
Thanks, Nels
> Get a hold of the latest issue of National Fisherman and look atthe
> drawing and you'll have no doubt that the boat in question is everybit
> a Bolger boat that a Black Skimmer is.Unfortunately many of us poor slobs live in places where National
Fisherman does not exist. Never saw it up here in Saskatchewan anyway.
So I am wondering if some kind soul could post some details of the
article.
And thanks David, for the report on your visit with the wonderful
people who made it all possible for me to be bugging you.
Reading that warmed my heart. These people are precious treasures and
we should do our best to support their efforts.
Thanks, Nels
Get a hold of the latest issue of National Fisherman and look at the
drawing and you'll have no doubt that the boat in question is every bit
a Bolger boat that a Black Skimmer is. I think what perhaps belongs
more to Suzanne is the passion for advocacy. You have to remember that
Phil's been fighting these battles over what constitutes a "proper
boat" for some time now. Relatively speaking, Suzanne is a fresh-faced
kid full of youthful idealism.
I also think that Suzanne is passionate about finding opportunities
that showcase or expand some of Phil's innovations to show that they
are not just clever, low-cost curiosities, but genuine contributions to
the art and science of boat design. Certainly the use of high buoyancy
rather than low ballast falls to achieve a seaworthy boat falls into
this category. I think the use of sheet material's inherent
characteristics (simple curves, hard chines) probably belongs there
too. Of course cost is always a factor in good design, but I think
Suzanne invites us to consider the worth of Phil's innovations outside
of their proven capacity to produce the simplest, cheapest boat
sufficient to a given task.
This is not a small thing. Inherent in many of the discussions we have
here is the implication that if we could only afford it we'd have
surely opt for a curvier boat; that our flat panels and hard chines
were justified at the budgetary bottom end; and that they should be the
first thing to go when the money getting spent becomes more serious.
Many of the modern designs from PCB&F suggest that the benefits of a
flat-paneled, hard-chined hull have a place in more "serious" boats
with more serious construction budgets.
YIBB,
David
drawing and you'll have no doubt that the boat in question is every bit
a Bolger boat that a Black Skimmer is. I think what perhaps belongs
more to Suzanne is the passion for advocacy. You have to remember that
Phil's been fighting these battles over what constitutes a "proper
boat" for some time now. Relatively speaking, Suzanne is a fresh-faced
kid full of youthful idealism.
I also think that Suzanne is passionate about finding opportunities
that showcase or expand some of Phil's innovations to show that they
are not just clever, low-cost curiosities, but genuine contributions to
the art and science of boat design. Certainly the use of high buoyancy
rather than low ballast falls to achieve a seaworthy boat falls into
this category. I think the use of sheet material's inherent
characteristics (simple curves, hard chines) probably belongs there
too. Of course cost is always a factor in good design, but I think
Suzanne invites us to consider the worth of Phil's innovations outside
of their proven capacity to produce the simplest, cheapest boat
sufficient to a given task.
This is not a small thing. Inherent in many of the discussions we have
here is the implication that if we could only afford it we'd have
surely opt for a curvier boat; that our flat panels and hard chines
were justified at the budgetary bottom end; and that they should be the
first thing to go when the money getting spent becomes more serious.
Many of the modern designs from PCB&F suggest that the benefits of a
flat-paneled, hard-chined hull have a place in more "serious" boats
with more serious construction budgets.
YIBB,
David
On Thursday, August 26, 2004, at 09:17 PM, Lincoln Ross wrote:
>>
> My s.o. read an article to me about this that was in the Gloucester
> paper. THey kept saying Bolger, but it sure sounded like Altenburger
> (is
> that the spelling, I forget) to me! I kept remembering something PB
> wrote about how he didn't want to do commercial fishing designs much as
> no one wanted to try something very different as the consequences of
> something not working very well were disastrous. We rowed around
> Gloucester harbor a bit and I sure would be reluctant to go very far
> offshore in some of the ratty old wooden boats I saw there, although I
> remember doing something similar a couple of decades ago. Twice! And we
> had Doc Edgerton with us. Horribly irresponsible, but at least I wasn't
> in charge.
>
>> There were some other designs in a similar vein to the Fiji/Tahiti
>> work
>> (to my eye the Alaska river explorer looks like a cousin to those
>> boats
>> as well.) The over-all gist seeming to be akin to Ataraxia, but
>> interpreted in sheet materials like steel or plywood
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> snip
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
see below
paper. THey kept saying Bolger, but it sure sounded like Altenburger (is
that the spelling, I forget) to me! I kept remembering something PB
wrote about how he didn't want to do commercial fishing designs much as
no one wanted to try something very different as the consequences of
something not working very well were disastrous. We rowed around
Gloucester harbor a bit and I sure would be reluctant to go very far
offshore in some of the ratty old wooden boats I saw there, although I
remember doing something similar a couple of decades ago. Twice! And we
had Doc Edgerton with us. Horribly irresponsible, but at least I wasn't
in charge.
>David Ryan wrote:My s.o. read an article to me about this that was in the Gloucester
>snip
>
>Susan in particular is working hard on promoting a lower-cost
>commercial fishing design she hopes might provide some relief to the
>beleaguered Gloucester fishing industry. The idea just got a write-up
>in National Fisherman. Cheap in both first costs and running costs, it
>just might offer a way to make a living from fishing as the resource
>becomes more scarce. Not surprisingly, there is more than a little
>suspicion of such a (relatively) light craft. Even as well
>indoctrinated as I am in sharpies, I still had a hard time substituting
>the design I saw for the traditional boats I see down at our own
>commercial docks. I think the idea is going to be a tough sell and
>folks will have to get pretty desperate to give it a try. Of course
>they're pouring concrete into the bilges of some of these boats to make
>them stay on their feet. I can't really imagine going to the Banks in a
>steel tub filled with concrete either! They hope that some monies might
>be raised to build a prototype to see if it doesn't meet expectations
>for profitability.
>
>
paper. THey kept saying Bolger, but it sure sounded like Altenburger (is
that the spelling, I forget) to me! I kept remembering something PB
wrote about how he didn't want to do commercial fishing designs much as
no one wanted to try something very different as the consequences of
something not working very well were disastrous. We rowed around
Gloucester harbor a bit and I sure would be reluctant to go very far
offshore in some of the ratty old wooden boats I saw there, although I
remember doing something similar a couple of decades ago. Twice! And we
had Doc Edgerton with us. Horribly irresponsible, but at least I wasn't
in charge.
>There were some other designs in a similar vein to the Fiji/Tahiti work
>(to my eye the Alaska river explorer looks like a cousin to those boats
>as well.) The over-all gist seeming to be akin to Ataraxia, but
>interpreted in sheet materials like steel or plywood
>
>
>
>
> snip
On Thursday, August 26, 2004, at 04:22 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
commercial fishing design she hopes might provide some relief to the
beleaguered Gloucester fishing industry. The idea just got a write-up
in National Fisherman. Cheap in both first costs and running costs, it
just might offer a way to make a living from fishing as the resource
becomes more scarce. Not surprisingly, there is more than a little
suspicion of such a (relatively) light craft. Even as well
indoctrinated as I am in sharpies, I still had a hard time substituting
the design I saw for the traditional boats I see down at our own
commercial docks. I think the idea is going to be a tough sell and
folks will have to get pretty desperate to give it a try. Of course
they're pouring concrete into the bilges of some of these boats to make
them stay on their feet. I can't really imagine going to the Banks in a
steel tub filled with concrete either! They hope that some monies might
be raised to build a prototype to see if it doesn't meet expectations
for profitability.
There were some other designs in a similar vein to the Fiji/Tahiti work
(to my eye the Alaska river explorer looks like a cousin to those boats
as well.) The over-all gist seeming to be akin to Ataraxia, but
interpreted in sheet materials like steel or plywood
them, and that a lot of his earlier cruising was done out of a feeling
of obligation, rather than real passion for it. As far as I could tell,
the only boat that was fit to sail at a moments notice was the
motorboat Shivaree. BTW, to say Shivaree is sparsely furnished is a
understatement. She's got a settee/bench forward on either side, a
tripod that supports the steering/throttle, and two folding resin
chairs to sit side by side at the helm. The effect is that despite
being only 16 feet long, she feels enormously huge. Phil commented that
"she feels the weight" by which I take it he meant between just the two
of them, versus the 4 1/2 of us. I'd bet she'd carry 2 more adults and
still get along well enough – there was certainly enough room for 6
1/2 to be comfortable. She takes the same motor as the I60, and I'm
tempted to build one as a place to "store" the outboard until the
bigger boat is done.
The are both intelligent and independent minded people that seem to see
much of the world through the lens of personal responsibility and
independent judgement. That would include acutely, but not mindlessly
critical views of governments, religions, conventional wisdom, and
fashion.
their long to do like (hopefully after completing the I60 plans) are
plans for changes to the superstructure and relaunch.
quite a bit of time discussing them.
YIBB,
David
>Susan in particular is working hard on promoting a lower-cost
>> a visit with Phil and Suzanne at their home
>
> Wow.
>
> Beyond the I60 and the Artic Explorer, what other
> designs were they working on?
commercial fishing design she hopes might provide some relief to the
beleaguered Gloucester fishing industry. The idea just got a write-up
in National Fisherman. Cheap in both first costs and running costs, it
just might offer a way to make a living from fishing as the resource
becomes more scarce. Not surprisingly, there is more than a little
suspicion of such a (relatively) light craft. Even as well
indoctrinated as I am in sharpies, I still had a hard time substituting
the design I saw for the traditional boats I see down at our own
commercial docks. I think the idea is going to be a tough sell and
folks will have to get pretty desperate to give it a try. Of course
they're pouring concrete into the bilges of some of these boats to make
them stay on their feet. I can't really imagine going to the Banks in a
steel tub filled with concrete either! They hope that some monies might
be raised to build a prototype to see if it doesn't meet expectations
for profitability.
There were some other designs in a similar vein to the Fiji/Tahiti work
(to my eye the Alaska river explorer looks like a cousin to those boats
as well.) The over-all gist seeming to be akin to Ataraxia, but
interpreted in sheet materials like steel or plywood
> Did they take a 'boating' vacation this summer?Phil confessed to me that he likes designing boats more than cruising
them, and that a lot of his earlier cruising was done out of a feeling
of obligation, rather than real passion for it. As far as I could tell,
the only boat that was fit to sail at a moments notice was the
motorboat Shivaree. BTW, to say Shivaree is sparsely furnished is a
understatement. She's got a settee/bench forward on either side, a
tripod that supports the steering/throttle, and two folding resin
chairs to sit side by side at the helm. The effect is that despite
being only 16 feet long, she feels enormously huge. Phil commented that
"she feels the weight" by which I take it he meant between just the two
of them, versus the 4 1/2 of us. I'd bet she'd carry 2 more adults and
still get along well enough – there was certainly enough room for 6
1/2 to be comfortable. She takes the same motor as the I60, and I'm
tempted to build one as a place to "store" the outboard until the
bigger boat is done.
> Care to give a cryptic hint of the political tilt?I don't think anything Phil or Suzanne said particularly surprised me.
The are both intelligent and independent minded people that seem to see
much of the world through the lens of personal responsibility and
independent judgement. That would include acutely, but not mindlessly
critical views of governments, religions, conventional wisdom, and
fashion.
> Is Resolution in their backyard, or afloat?In the front yard where it serves as a guest cottage. Somewhere on
their long to do like (hopefully after completing the I60 plans) are
plans for changes to the superstructure and relaunch.
> How many cats?At least two, much to my daughter's delight! She and Suzanne spent
quite a bit of time discussing them.
YIBB,
David
>a visit with Phil and Suzanne at their homeWow.
Beyond the I60 and the Artic Explorer, what other
designs were they working on?
Did they take a 'boating' vacation this summer?
Care to give a cryptic hint of the political tilt?
Is Resolution in their backyard, or afloat?
How many cats?
FBBB,
We just got back from a week's tour of New England, including a visit
with Phil and Suzanne at their home.
Lots of boat talk, lots of politics, even some metaphysics. But the
highlight of the visit was a tour of the area aboard Shivaree, the
shorter version of the Fisherman's Launch shown in BWAOM. We went out
and around the waters near their home, and Phil and Suzanne pointed out
various landmarks or notable boats. The two of them fairly well live
and breathe boats, and it was fascinating to get a glimpse of what the
watery world looks like through their eyes. The area where they live is
extremely picturesque, and seeing it by boat was a treat. Suzanne was
especially hospitable to my wife Amelia and daughter Margaret, going
well out her way to make sure they weren't left out in all the talk
about plywood and epoxy. On our cruise she suddenly threw Shivaree into
a couple of very tight high speed turns (think jetski!) that thrilled
and delighted Margaret. We got back to the dock just in time; the water
was fast disappearing from under us. As we all headed off for a dinner
later the tide had left the boat high and dry.
The most interesting thing wasn't a boat at all, but was Suzanne's
design for their house. A wreck when they bought it, they've rebuilt
the walls to a heavily insulated 12" thickness. There's also a heat
exchanging ventilation system that means the house uses its A/C very
sparingly in the Summer and only takes about $350 to heat in the
Winter. While we were their the heat and humidity were oppressive
outside, but the house was cool and dry, despite having no central A/C
(there's a single window mounted unit somewhere in the house.) Phil
told me that in the Winter most of the time the heat from lights and
computers is more than enough to keep the house comfortable, and they
don't have to turn on the heat till the outside temp reaches zero (I
think he meant Fahrenheit.) They're currently working on an Alaskan
river explorer (soon to be published I hope) that has some pretty nifty
thermal properties as well.
As for the I60, it has turned out to be quite a bit more than they
bargained for. As I saw the amount of work that's gone into it, I felt
a little embarrassed at the price that Sue and I are paying for the
design. Some aspects have become more simple, some more complex; the
sum and total probably meaning fewer dollars paid to outside
contractors, and more money for materials and work for the builder. The
biggest relief to me are the spars and keel, both of which are
substantially less complex in terms of materials and/or manufacture
than I first imagined (and budgeted for!) With a little resourcefulness
I still think this thing can be built and sailed under some second-hand
sails for about the price of a Subaru station wagon. The loft-sewn,
fully battened suit will probably have to wait till we see some rental
money from our house, but man oh man will they be worth the wait!
In all the visit had all the pleasurable aspects of meeting a hero, but
with a conviviality that was utterly unexpected. Phil and Suzanne were
gracious and welcoming hosts. With luck, the next time they see us
we'll be rounding Cape Anne under an impressive spread of canvas!
YIBB,
David
We just got back from a week's tour of New England, including a visit
with Phil and Suzanne at their home.
Lots of boat talk, lots of politics, even some metaphysics. But the
highlight of the visit was a tour of the area aboard Shivaree, the
shorter version of the Fisherman's Launch shown in BWAOM. We went out
and around the waters near their home, and Phil and Suzanne pointed out
various landmarks or notable boats. The two of them fairly well live
and breathe boats, and it was fascinating to get a glimpse of what the
watery world looks like through their eyes. The area where they live is
extremely picturesque, and seeing it by boat was a treat. Suzanne was
especially hospitable to my wife Amelia and daughter Margaret, going
well out her way to make sure they weren't left out in all the talk
about plywood and epoxy. On our cruise she suddenly threw Shivaree into
a couple of very tight high speed turns (think jetski!) that thrilled
and delighted Margaret. We got back to the dock just in time; the water
was fast disappearing from under us. As we all headed off for a dinner
later the tide had left the boat high and dry.
The most interesting thing wasn't a boat at all, but was Suzanne's
design for their house. A wreck when they bought it, they've rebuilt
the walls to a heavily insulated 12" thickness. There's also a heat
exchanging ventilation system that means the house uses its A/C very
sparingly in the Summer and only takes about $350 to heat in the
Winter. While we were their the heat and humidity were oppressive
outside, but the house was cool and dry, despite having no central A/C
(there's a single window mounted unit somewhere in the house.) Phil
told me that in the Winter most of the time the heat from lights and
computers is more than enough to keep the house comfortable, and they
don't have to turn on the heat till the outside temp reaches zero (I
think he meant Fahrenheit.) They're currently working on an Alaskan
river explorer (soon to be published I hope) that has some pretty nifty
thermal properties as well.
As for the I60, it has turned out to be quite a bit more than they
bargained for. As I saw the amount of work that's gone into it, I felt
a little embarrassed at the price that Sue and I are paying for the
design. Some aspects have become more simple, some more complex; the
sum and total probably meaning fewer dollars paid to outside
contractors, and more money for materials and work for the builder. The
biggest relief to me are the spars and keel, both of which are
substantially less complex in terms of materials and/or manufacture
than I first imagined (and budgeted for!) With a little resourcefulness
I still think this thing can be built and sailed under some second-hand
sails for about the price of a Subaru station wagon. The loft-sewn,
fully battened suit will probably have to wait till we see some rental
money from our house, but man oh man will they be worth the wait!
In all the visit had all the pleasurable aspects of meeting a hero, but
with a conviviality that was utterly unexpected. Phil and Suzanne were
gracious and welcoming hosts. With luck, the next time they see us
we'll be rounding Cape Anne under an impressive spread of canvas!
YIBB,
David