Re: more questions about steel plate ballast attachment?
Yes. Sir Humphrey Davey knew, understood and wrote about it -- even
recommending using iron sacrifical anodes on hulls -- by 1824.
Whether it was unknown to NGH, or known and ignored, I don't know.
Howard
recommending using iron sacrifical anodes on hulls -- by 1824.
Whether it was unknown to NGH, or known and ignored, I don't know.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
>I'm not so sure that the galvanic scale was
> as well known then as it is now. It is ignored enough
> now...
Vigilant was a battery destroying itself. As you point
out it only had to sail for a month or two. But, what
a waste. I'm not so sure that the galvanic scale was
as well known then as it is now. It is ignored enough
now...
I believe that bronze is supposed to suppress marine
growth.
--- Howard Stephenson <stephensonhw@...> wrote:
out it only had to sail for a month or two. But, what
a waste. I'm not so sure that the galvanic scale was
as well known then as it is now. It is ignored enough
now...
I believe that bronze is supposed to suppress marine
growth.
--- Howard Stephenson <stephensonhw@...> wrote:
> N.G.Herreshoff's Vigilant defended the America's Cup
> in 1893. This
> 124-ft.-long monster was plated in bronze below the
> waterline and
> steel above it. What an invitation to galvanic
> disaster that
> combination must have been!
>
> To make it worse, I think the frames, floors etc.
> were steel. But
> then I suppose she was built to win just one race
> series. Her draft
> was increased to 24' by a 3-1/2-ton cement-filled
> bronze-plate
> centreboard.
>
> Is bronze resistant to marine growth? I've just read
> an article about
> someone who discovered, after their boat had been
> lying at moorings
> for a year, that the propellor was heavily encrusted
> in barnacles.
> Didn't say whether the prop was bronze or s/s.
>
> Howard
>
>
N.G.Herreshoff's Vigilant defended the America's Cup in 1893. This
124-ft.-long monster was plated in bronze below the waterline and
steel above it. What an invitation to galvanic disaster that
combination must have been!
To make it worse, I think the frames, floors etc. were steel. But
then I suppose she was built to win just one race series. Her draft
was increased to 24' by a 3-1/2-ton cement-filled bronze-plate
centreboard.
Is bronze resistant to marine growth? I've just read an article about
someone who discovered, after their boat had been lying at moorings
for a year, that the propellor was heavily encrusted in barnacles.
Didn't say whether the prop was bronze or s/s.
Howard
124-ft.-long monster was plated in bronze below the waterline and
steel above it. What an invitation to galvanic disaster that
combination must have been!
To make it worse, I think the frames, floors etc. were steel. But
then I suppose she was built to win just one race series. Her draft
was increased to 24' by a 3-1/2-ton cement-filled bronze-plate
centreboard.
Is bronze resistant to marine growth? I've just read an article about
someone who discovered, after their boat had been lying at moorings
for a year, that the propellor was heavily encrusted in barnacles.
Didn't say whether the prop was bronze or s/s.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
> Phil and Susanne pointed out that bronze would be
> better as it is harder. I don't think I can find much
> in the way of flat scrap bronze, though.
I can't tell if my e-mail program burped when I posted
this, so at the risk of the ire of anyone who gets to
read my deathless words twice, here it goes again:
Not to dig up old topics, but...
I have a Martha Jane. I've been thinking about making
all the PB&F changes to her. After viewing the video,
I'm sure that I'd want to make them all, especially
the raised house top, if I decide to keep her.
If you have a Martha Jane and you are making the
modifications, make sure you contact PB&F to get the
revised revisions. They've changed the forward windows
in the raised housetop to improve your forward vision.
The builder built in the tanks for the water ballast
but put limber holes in them. This makes the MJ a
little tender. (Note wry understatement here.)
I talked to Phil and Susanne about putting a metal
shoe on the MJ. They thought that would be good. I'd
been working with them on a larger design that I'd
thought my immanent wealth that didn't matriculate
would allow me to build. I wanted to try out some
ideas on the MJ before I built the big boat.
My not-so-crackpot idea was to use copper plate as
opposed to steel plate on the bottom. As I was hoping
to build a live aboard boat and live aboard her, I
wanted to avoid bottom paint and hauling. I'm well
aware of what Phil had to say about the copper on
Resolution.
Phil and Susanne thought that the copper would work
fine. I figured that I could find 500 pounds of copper
in more or less sheet form at various scap yards and
with more conventional thin copper sheeting thoroughly
copper the MJ's bottom.
I haven't gotten around to this or the modifications
of my MJ, but if I keep her, I think I'll do it. The
additonal 500 pounds will make her harder to tow, but
I don't plan to do that much and I've got a one-ton
GMC pickup that will be up to the task.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that copper is much more
expensive than and softer than steel. I pointed out
that hauling (not a problem on a trailer sailer or at
my marina which has a crane for dry sailing her) and
bottom paint are pretty expensive too. I was quoted $2
a pound for scrap copper a while ago.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that bronze would be
better as it is harder. I don't think I can find much
in the way of flat scrap bronze, though.
Phil Smith
this, so at the risk of the ire of anyone who gets to
read my deathless words twice, here it goes again:
Not to dig up old topics, but...
I have a Martha Jane. I've been thinking about making
all the PB&F changes to her. After viewing the video,
I'm sure that I'd want to make them all, especially
the raised house top, if I decide to keep her.
If you have a Martha Jane and you are making the
modifications, make sure you contact PB&F to get the
revised revisions. They've changed the forward windows
in the raised housetop to improve your forward vision.
The builder built in the tanks for the water ballast
but put limber holes in them. This makes the MJ a
little tender. (Note wry understatement here.)
I talked to Phil and Susanne about putting a metal
shoe on the MJ. They thought that would be good. I'd
been working with them on a larger design that I'd
thought my immanent wealth that didn't matriculate
would allow me to build. I wanted to try out some
ideas on the MJ before I built the big boat.
My not-so-crackpot idea was to use copper plate as
opposed to steel plate on the bottom. As I was hoping
to build a live aboard boat and live aboard her, I
wanted to avoid bottom paint and hauling. I'm well
aware of what Phil had to say about the copper on
Resolution.
Phil and Susanne thought that the copper would work
fine. I figured that I could find 500 pounds of copper
in more or less sheet form at various scap yards and
with more conventional thin copper sheeting thoroughly
copper the MJ's bottom.
I haven't gotten around to this or the modifications
of my MJ, but if I keep her, I think I'll do it. The
additonal 500 pounds will make her harder to tow, but
I don't plan to do that much and I've got a one-ton
GMC pickup that will be up to the task.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that copper is much more
expensive than and softer than steel. I pointed out
that hauling (not a problem on a trailer sailer or at
my marina which has a crane for dry sailing her) and
bottom paint are pretty expensive too. I was quoted $2
a pound for scrap copper a while ago.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that bronze would be
better as it is harder. I don't think I can find much
in the way of flat scrap bronze, though.
Phil Smith
Not to dig up old topics, but...
I have a Martha Jane. I've been thinking about making
all the PB&F changes to her. After viewing the video,
I'm sure that I'd want to make them all, especially
the raised house top, if I decide to keep her.
If you have a Martha Jane and you are making the
modifications, make sure you contact PB&F to get the
revised revisions. They've changed the forward windows
in the raised housetop to improve your forward vision.
The builder built in the tanks for the water ballast
but put limber holes in them. This makes the MJ a
little tender. (Note wry understatement here.)
I talked to Phil and Susanne about putting a metal
shoe on the MJ. They thought that would be good. I'd
been working with them on a larger design that I'd
thought my immanent wealth that didn't matriculate
would allow me to build. I wanted to try out some
ideas on the MJ before I built the big boat.
My not-so-crackpot idea was to use copper plate as
opposed to steel plate on the bottom. As I was hoping
to build a live aboard boat and live aboard her, I
wanted to avoid bottom paint and hauling. I'm well
aware of what Phil had to say about the copper on
Resolution.
Phil and Susanne thought that the copper would work
fine. I figured that I could find 500 pounds of copper
in more or less sheet form at various scap yards and
with more conventional thin copper sheeting thoroughly
copper the MJ's bottom.
I haven't gotten around to this or the modifications
of my MJ, but if I keep her, I think I'll do it. The
additonal 500 pounds will make her harder to tow, but
I don't plan to do that much and I've got a one-ton
GMC pickup that will be up to the task.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that copper is much more
expensive than and softer than steel. I pointed out
that hauling (not a problem on a trailer sailer or at
my marina which has a crane for dry sailing her) and
bottom paint are pretty expensive too. I was quoted $2
a pound for scrap copper a while ago.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that bronze would be
better as it is harder. I don't think I can find much
in the way of flat scrap bronze, though.
Phil Smith
I have a Martha Jane. I've been thinking about making
all the PB&F changes to her. After viewing the video,
I'm sure that I'd want to make them all, especially
the raised house top, if I decide to keep her.
If you have a Martha Jane and you are making the
modifications, make sure you contact PB&F to get the
revised revisions. They've changed the forward windows
in the raised housetop to improve your forward vision.
The builder built in the tanks for the water ballast
but put limber holes in them. This makes the MJ a
little tender. (Note wry understatement here.)
I talked to Phil and Susanne about putting a metal
shoe on the MJ. They thought that would be good. I'd
been working with them on a larger design that I'd
thought my immanent wealth that didn't matriculate
would allow me to build. I wanted to try out some
ideas on the MJ before I built the big boat.
My not-so-crackpot idea was to use copper plate as
opposed to steel plate on the bottom. As I was hoping
to build a live aboard boat and live aboard her, I
wanted to avoid bottom paint and hauling. I'm well
aware of what Phil had to say about the copper on
Resolution.
Phil and Susanne thought that the copper would work
fine. I figured that I could find 500 pounds of copper
in more or less sheet form at various scap yards and
with more conventional thin copper sheeting thoroughly
copper the MJ's bottom.
I haven't gotten around to this or the modifications
of my MJ, but if I keep her, I think I'll do it. The
additonal 500 pounds will make her harder to tow, but
I don't plan to do that much and I've got a one-ton
GMC pickup that will be up to the task.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that copper is much more
expensive than and softer than steel. I pointed out
that hauling (not a problem on a trailer sailer or at
my marina which has a crane for dry sailing her) and
bottom paint are pretty expensive too. I was quoted $2
a pound for scrap copper a while ago.
Phil and Susanne pointed out that bronze would be
better as it is harder. I don't think I can find much
in the way of flat scrap bronze, though.
Phil Smith
Jason,
I think the conclusion of the discussion a few weeks ago was that any
way of doing it was going to be imperfect.
If you don't like the steel plate idea, you could use lead sheet or
lead pigs sitting on the bottom. The sheets could be held there by
screws into the bottom and the pigs held in place somehow from above.
Some of PCB's flat-bottom designs are like this.
The differing rates of thermal expansion or the potential for leaks
may not be such big problems. After all, conventional wooden sailing
yachts usually have a solid iron or lead ballast casting held there
by numerous bolts up through the wooden keel.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
I think the conclusion of the discussion a few weeks ago was that any
way of doing it was going to be imperfect.
If you don't like the steel plate idea, you could use lead sheet or
lead pigs sitting on the bottom. The sheets could be held there by
screws into the bottom and the pigs held in place somehow from above.
Some of PCB's flat-bottom designs are like this.
The differing rates of thermal expansion or the potential for leaks
may not be such big problems. After all, conventional wooden sailing
yachts usually have a solid iron or lead ballast casting held there
by numerous bolts up through the wooden keel.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> Hey-an
> Not that i'm doing anything like this but can't quit thinking
> aboutthe logistics of attaching a sheet of steel to the bottom of
> as-29 or any of bolgers other sharpies. If anyone has plans or isthe
> working on one of these boats can you explain what bolger advises,
> sounds like a scary but effecient method, i just can't visualize
> method of attachment.
Hey-
Not that i'm doing anything like this but can't quit thinking
aboutthe logistics of attaching a sheet of steel to the bottom of an
as-29 or any of bolgers other sharpies. If anyone has plans or is
working on one of these boats can you explain what bolger advises,
sounds like a scary but effecient method, i just can't visualize the
method of attachment.
I assume you skip the glassing on the bottom and just put on lots of
coats of epoxy on?
drill holes right through the bottom? Gasp. do the holes need to be
oversized for the metal plate expansion and contraction?
Would the plate have threaded studs welded to them that go up into
the hull or do the bolt heads protrude through the bottom?......i
guess pan head bolts would have minimal drag. How many how far apart?
All these holes in the hull below water line...gasp. Do you just
fill around them with 5200 and hope it won't leak/sink.
I know i've brought this up before but i'm real curious.
Thanks,
Jason
Not that i'm doing anything like this but can't quit thinking
aboutthe logistics of attaching a sheet of steel to the bottom of an
as-29 or any of bolgers other sharpies. If anyone has plans or is
working on one of these boats can you explain what bolger advises,
sounds like a scary but effecient method, i just can't visualize the
method of attachment.
I assume you skip the glassing on the bottom and just put on lots of
coats of epoxy on?
drill holes right through the bottom? Gasp. do the holes need to be
oversized for the metal plate expansion and contraction?
Would the plate have threaded studs welded to them that go up into
the hull or do the bolt heads protrude through the bottom?......i
guess pan head bolts would have minimal drag. How many how far apart?
All these holes in the hull below water line...gasp. Do you just
fill around them with 5200 and hope it won't leak/sink.
I know i've brought this up before but i'm real curious.
Thanks,
Jason