Re: [bolger] Re: Stainless Steel : working with metal
I have used an old blade and a radial arm saw for complex bevels. I
built a whole beater bar and reel system for a herring boat doing this.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
built a whole beater bar and reel system for a herring boat doing this.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>>You bring up a good point here. At some point, we all need to work
>>with metal.
>>David Jost
>>
>>
>
>Not mentioned yet in this discussion is the use of
>6061 grade aluminum. I am not sure yet,
>(but I read) that it is very resistant to corrosion,
>and fully tempered, it has 30 ksi shear strength,
>[versus A36 steel 36 ksi]. Yet, it is soft
>enough to cut with a carbide blade on a
>Skilsaw. [it gums up and ruins hacksaw
>blades in a Sawsall or a Jigsaw.]
>
>I buy scraps of the stuff on EBay for cheap,
>and it is probably good enough for lots of
>backyard boat building purposes.
>
>
>
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> You bring up a good point here. At some point, we all need to workNot mentioned yet in this discussion is the use of
> with metal.
> David Jost
6061 grade aluminum. I am not sure yet,
(but I read) that it is very resistant to corrosion,
and fully tempered, it has 30 ksi shear strength,
[versus A36 steel 36 ksi]. Yet, it is soft
enough to cut with a carbide blade on a
Skilsaw. [it gums up and ruins hacksaw
blades in a Sawsall or a Jigsaw.]
I buy scraps of the stuff on EBay for cheap,
and it is probably good enough for lots of
backyard boat building purposes.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
carbide precipitation - small enough that you can grind it away.
Carbide precipitation is generally not an issue with 316 anyway.
Most plasma torches use compressed air, the principle purpose of which
is to blow the slag away.
Doug
> P.S.is it
> After the plasma cutting torch finishes with the piece of metal,
> still 316 SS?inert gas
>
> For welding they recommend a reducing flame. Maybe the torch is
> shielded????There will be a small region near the cut line that is succeptable to
carbide precipitation - small enough that you can grind it away.
Carbide precipitation is generally not an issue with 316 anyway.
Most plasma torches use compressed air, the principle purpose of which
is to blow the slag away.
Doug
P.S.
After the plasma cutting torch finishes with the piece of metal, is it
still 316 SS?
For welding they recommend a reducing flame. Maybe the torch is inert gas
shielded????
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
After the plasma cutting torch finishes with the piece of metal, is it
still 316 SS?
For welding they recommend a reducing flame. Maybe the torch is inert gas
shielded????
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "doug6949" <prototype@...>
>
>
> > CNC plasma tables are getting so common that you can often get work
> > done at very little expense. Do your drawings and take a dxf file with
> > you when you go shopping.
I guess I didn't describe the problem well. All I was trying to do was lop
off a short length of 1/4" dowel (316 SS dowel) to see what it took to make
a rivet. (small hammer, persistence) I really can't see a DXF file for a 4"
+/- 1" cut, and the machine shop is 20 miles away. Exit two hacksaw blades,
one power and one manual. (SS also takes the carborundum off abrasive
wheels very quickly, but they're cheap compared to bi-metal blades for a
Sawzall.)
Coming soon is the shortening of a couple of mast tangs (1" x 1/16") from
10" to about 6", the boring of holes therein, and the squaring of one or
more holes to capture a carriage bolt head. (My triangular file now isn't
and the Dremel conical grindstone is much smaller in its middle.)
After that, I'll be making seven or so straight cuts on a hunk of 2" square
tubing to create the lower rudder pintle.
The sacrificial plywood blade, non-carbide, sounds like a winner for the
cutting. I knew I saved that rusty old blade for something. I do need to
make some changes to insure I don't set the sawdust bag under my saw on fire
again.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
off a short length of 1/4" dowel (316 SS dowel) to see what it took to make
a rivet. (small hammer, persistence) I really can't see a DXF file for a 4"
+/- 1" cut, and the machine shop is 20 miles away. Exit two hacksaw blades,
one power and one manual. (SS also takes the carborundum off abrasive
wheels very quickly, but they're cheap compared to bi-metal blades for a
Sawzall.)
Coming soon is the shortening of a couple of mast tangs (1" x 1/16") from
10" to about 6", the boring of holes therein, and the squaring of one or
more holes to capture a carriage bolt head. (My triangular file now isn't
and the Dremel conical grindstone is much smaller in its middle.)
After that, I'll be making seven or so straight cuts on a hunk of 2" square
tubing to create the lower rudder pintle.
The sacrificial plywood blade, non-carbide, sounds like a winner for the
cutting. I knew I saved that rusty old blade for something. I do need to
make some changes to insure I don't set the sawdust bag under my saw on fire
again.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "doug6949" <prototype@...>
> CNC plasma tables are getting so common that you can often get work
> done at very little expense. Do your drawings and take a dxf file with
> you when you go shopping.
>
> Many hobby type are even building their own CNC tables. Mine is only
> half complete due to house remodelling priorities. Damned house! My
> CNC mill and lathe haven't run in two years either.
>
> Doug
CNC plasma tables are getting so common that you can often get work
done at very little expense. Do your drawings and take a dxf file with
you when you go shopping.
Many hobby type are even building their own CNC tables. Mine is only
half complete due to house remodelling priorities. Damned house! My
CNC mill and lathe haven't run in two years either.
Doug
done at very little expense. Do your drawings and take a dxf file with
you when you go shopping.
Many hobby type are even building their own CNC tables. Mine is only
half complete due to house remodelling priorities. Damned house! My
CNC mill and lathe haven't run in two years either.
Doug
Senorian, Thierry,
Great help! Thank you.
Any tips on drilling?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Great help! Thank you.
Any tips on drilling?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "southcoveemail" <southcoveemail@...>
> I cut all the chainplates for a 40' wooden mast I built a while ago
> on the plan of Nereia featured in sensible cruising design by Francis
> Herreshof using a 1/16" 316 S/S and a table saw or a portable
> circular saw equipped with an old 7 1/4" plywood blade put the wrong
> way round. I guess 1/8" S/S would be no problem.
> Push hard, wear goggle and ear protection. The table saw had a lot of
> power and cut easy through, the portable one was just a bit weak.
> I had quite a lot of parts to cut and bought a full sheet of the
> material as it was a double spreader design and the S/S is stacked to
> get whatever thickness is desired.
> Thierry
I cut all the chainplates for a 40' wooden mast I built a while ago
on the plan of Nereia featured in sensible cruising design by Francis
Herreshof using a 1/16" 316 S/S and a table saw or a portable
circular saw equipped with an old 7 1/4" plywood blade put the wrong
way round. I guess 1/8" S/S would be no problem.
Push hard, wear goggle and ear protection. The table saw had a lot of
power and cut easy through, the portable one was just a bit weak.
I had quite a lot of parts to cut and bought a full sheet of the
material as it was a double spreader design and the S/S is stacked to
get whatever thickness is desired.
Thierry
on the plan of Nereia featured in sensible cruising design by Francis
Herreshof using a 1/16" 316 S/S and a table saw or a portable
circular saw equipped with an old 7 1/4" plywood blade put the wrong
way round. I guess 1/8" S/S would be no problem.
Push hard, wear goggle and ear protection. The table saw had a lot of
power and cut easy through, the portable one was just a bit weak.
I had quite a lot of parts to cut and bought a full sheet of the
material as it was a double spreader design and the S/S is stacked to
get whatever thickness is desired.
Thierry
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "daveydimwit" <david@c...> wrote:
teeth, NOT carbide)
This cuts by melting the steel (stainless). The individual teeth get
blunted instantly but are cooled by the air and continue to melt the
steel.
Works up to 1/4 inch steel(but is slow at this thickness)
Is very fast with 1/8 inch steel
Wear safety goggles
> I know of a boatbuilder type who has just acquired a CNC plasmacutter
> that can cut 1/8" stainless like butter. You would have to sendhim a
> DXF file of the part you want cut an negotiate a price. I wouldbe
> happy to forward the name.Get a circular saw blade designed for cutting plywood (many small
>
> David
teeth, NOT carbide)
This cuts by melting the steel (stainless). The individual teeth get
blunted instantly but are cooled by the air and continue to melt the
steel.
Works up to 1/4 inch steel(but is slow at this thickness)
Is very fast with 1/8 inch steel
Wear safety goggles
I don't need that kind of fancy, but I would like a supplier of 12 or 14 ga
316 SS strips. Online metals seems to bottom out at 1/8" and the other
stuff is machined and polished and expensive.
I've done the cold chisel bit on 12 ga mild steel while fabricating floor
boards for a 1954 Plymouth (best transportation I ever bought for $75). As
you say, it does get the job done much easier than sawing.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
316 SS strips. Online metals seems to bottom out at 1/8" and the other
stuff is machined and polished and expensive.
I've done the cold chisel bit on 12 ga mild steel while fabricating floor
boards for a 1954 Plymouth (best transportation I ever bought for $75). As
you say, it does get the job done much easier than sawing.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "daveydimwit" <david@...>
> I know of a boatbuilder type who has just acquired a CNC plasma cutter
> that can cut 1/8" stainless like butter. You would have to send him a
> DXF file of the part you want cut an negotiate a price. I would be
> happy to forward the name.
I know of a boatbuilder type who has just acquired a CNC plasma cutter
that can cut 1/8" stainless like butter. You would have to send him a
DXF file of the part you want cut an negotiate a price. I would be
happy to forward the name.
David
that can cut 1/8" stainless like butter. You would have to send him a
DXF file of the part you want cut an negotiate a price. I would be
happy to forward the name.
David
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
You bring up a good point here. At some point, we all need to work
with metal. On my Micro, it involved drilling holes in the lead to
receive the nails (I learned it is done slowly or else the drill bit
melts the lead and gets stuck in it!).
I have fabricated a number of parts out of bronze and ss and the
answer is always the same. Good sharp tools, light cutting oil, and
work slowly. Brazing is done with a low flame or the gas pressure
blows the solder out of the joint. Stuff like that...
Does anyone else have suggestions? Brazing tips? We already
debated the merits of the new wire feed welders vs an oxy acetylene
outfit. I would love to learn how to make a furnace to fabricate my
own bronze parts. Carbon fibre is fun to play with as well.
David Jost
"wrapping up a Pointy Skiff for one of the neighborhood kids"
> I've been whittling out the many pieces of metal associated withthe
> Chebacco rudder and centerboard. Stainless 316.Roger -
You bring up a good point here. At some point, we all need to work
with metal. On my Micro, it involved drilling holes in the lead to
receive the nails (I learned it is done slowly or else the drill bit
melts the lead and gets stuck in it!).
I have fabricated a number of parts out of bronze and ss and the
answer is always the same. Good sharp tools, light cutting oil, and
work slowly. Brazing is done with a low flame or the gas pressure
blows the solder out of the joint. Stuff like that...
Does anyone else have suggestions? Brazing tips? We already
debated the merits of the new wire feed welders vs an oxy acetylene
outfit. I would love to learn how to make a furnace to fabricate my
own bronze parts. Carbon fibre is fun to play with as well.
David Jost
"wrapping up a Pointy Skiff for one of the neighborhood kids"
Years ago I made up some tangs, plates etc. out of 1/8" stainless
steel for a trimaran I was building. After trying a hacksaw, I found
the easiest way of cutting the stainless was to put it in a
metalworking vice and cut it with a cold-chisel and hammer. You'd
think this would be tremendously laborious but, after struggling with
the hacksaw, this technique seemed like cutting butter with a knife.
It was easy to cut a straight line by cutting along the top of the
jaws of the vice. Cutting a curve just meant repeatedly moving the
piece and cutting. I filed the edges and curves smooth and took the
pieces to a friend with a proper drill-press to drill all the holes.
They came up really well.
Howard
steel for a trimaran I was building. After trying a hacksaw, I found
the easiest way of cutting the stainless was to put it in a
metalworking vice and cut it with a cold-chisel and hammer. You'd
think this would be tremendously laborious but, after struggling with
the hacksaw, this technique seemed like cutting butter with a knife.
It was easy to cut a straight line by cutting along the top of the
jaws of the vice. Cutting a curve just meant repeatedly moving the
piece and cutting. I filed the edges and curves smooth and took the
pieces to a friend with a proper drill-press to drill all the holes.
They came up really well.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
> I've been whittling out the many pieces of metal associated with the
> Chebacco rudder and centerboard. Stainless 316.
>
> The four metal plates that spread the load for the CB pivot each
needed a 1"
> hole. My 1/4 hp drill press just wasn't getting the job done, so I
toted
> them to a local machine shop. When I described my attempts to the
> machinist, he just laughed, and clamped them up in a boring machine
that
> weighed several times more than my car. It did a pretty good job.
Slowly.
>
> Today I ripped the teeth off two good hacksaw blades in a matter of
minutes.
> They each made the first cut just fine. For the second, they
wouldn't cut
> no matter how hard I pushed. a leg.
I've been whittling out the many pieces of metal associated with the
Chebacco rudder and centerboard. Stainless 316.
The four metal plates that spread the load for the CB pivot each needed a 1"
hole. My 1/4 hp drill press just wasn't getting the job done, so I toted
them to a local machine shop. When I described my attempts to the
machinist, he just laughed, and clamped them up in a boring machine that
weighed several times more than my car. It did a pretty good job. Slowly.
Today I ripped the teeth off two good hacksaw blades in a matter of minutes.
They each made the first cut just fine. For the second, they wouldn't cut
no matter how hard I pushed. Hmmm.
So I looked up the metal on the internet and found it had "45% of the
machinability of mild steel." I hate to think what a material of really low
machinability would be like. Now I understand why the little bits and
pieces of the stuff cost an arm and a leg.
Next I've got to figure out how to weld (oxy-acetylene) the stuff. One
pound of rods costs more than ten pounds of mild steel rods.
For future use, hot dipped galvanized is looking better all the time. I've
even got a small can of "cold galvanizing" compound with which to treat the
cut edges per MIL-STD-????
The rudder tube will be a hunk of PVC pipe rather than the $100 piece of SS
that PCB specified. If I can wring it with a mere 36" tiller, the rudder's
too deep in the mud.
Do naval architects think about these when they make their notes on the
drawing? (Or am I doing something very wrong?)
Roger (So soon old, so late smart!)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
Chebacco rudder and centerboard. Stainless 316.
The four metal plates that spread the load for the CB pivot each needed a 1"
hole. My 1/4 hp drill press just wasn't getting the job done, so I toted
them to a local machine shop. When I described my attempts to the
machinist, he just laughed, and clamped them up in a boring machine that
weighed several times more than my car. It did a pretty good job. Slowly.
Today I ripped the teeth off two good hacksaw blades in a matter of minutes.
They each made the first cut just fine. For the second, they wouldn't cut
no matter how hard I pushed. Hmmm.
So I looked up the metal on the internet and found it had "45% of the
machinability of mild steel." I hate to think what a material of really low
machinability would be like. Now I understand why the little bits and
pieces of the stuff cost an arm and a leg.
Next I've got to figure out how to weld (oxy-acetylene) the stuff. One
pound of rods costs more than ten pounds of mild steel rods.
For future use, hot dipped galvanized is looking better all the time. I've
even got a small can of "cold galvanizing" compound with which to treat the
cut edges per MIL-STD-????
The rudder tube will be a hunk of PVC pipe rather than the $100 piece of SS
that PCB specified. If I can wring it with a mere 36" tiller, the rudder's
too deep in the mud.
Do naval architects think about these when they make their notes on the
drawing? (Or am I doing something very wrong?)
Roger (So soon old, so late smart!)
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm