Re: Chebacco mizzen mast question
The sprit has to land somewhere on the mast to keep both leech and
foot tight -- it acts like a vang when you find the right spot, and
keeps the sail flat and without twist. The Chebacco mizzen isn't
worth reefing, it's already very small, and you might as well just
furl it. Speaking of which, I furl by rolling the sail around the
sprit, which is tied to the sail at the clew (the back corner). I
just hold the sprit vertical and start rolling. A couple of short
ties keeps it against the mast once its rolled up. With a little
practice, I learned to do it without climbing out of the cockpit, but
you have to watch out for the boom!
Jamie Orr
foot tight -- it acts like a vang when you find the right spot, and
keeps the sail flat and without twist. The Chebacco mizzen isn't
worth reefing, it's already very small, and you might as well just
furl it. Speaking of which, I furl by rolling the sail around the
sprit, which is tied to the sail at the clew (the back corner). I
just hold the sprit vertical and start rolling. A couple of short
ties keeps it against the mast once its rolled up. With a little
practice, I learned to do it without climbing out of the cockpit, but
you have to watch out for the boom!
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
> I'll have a similar mizzen on Cormorant, though it'll have a boomkin
> to sheet to. (In BWAOM it looks like there's no boomkin on
Chebacco.)
> The talk of rotating mizzen masts got me wondering if it's possible
to
> somehow mount the snotter lower down, with an attachment to the
> transom rather than on the mast itself? That would enable one to
reef
> by rolling the sail around the mast, assuming you added some chocks
to
> the mast down by the step or at the partner. The sprit would then
have
> a different angle to the sail -- and possibly that would let the
sail
> ride up too much at the clew. Though the sheet would hold it down,
> mostly (moreso with the boomkin down there to provide direct
downhaul)
> . . .
>
> Is this possible?
>
> All best,
> Garth
Hi Roger --
Thanks for that link -- what a great summary of sailing tips. I was
worried about exactly the things the article addresses -- developing
lee helm in heavy weather when using a reefed main and no mizzen, or
having too much weather helm with a full mizzen and reefed main. Seems
like it's not a huge problem.
All best,
Garth
Thanks for that link -- what a great summary of sailing tips. I was
worried about exactly the things the article addresses -- developing
lee helm in heavy weather when using a reefed main and no mizzen, or
having too much weather helm with a full mizzen and reefed main. Seems
like it's not a huge problem.
All best,
Garth
> Reading the article on sailinghttp://www.chebacco.com/under "Chebaccoreefing the
> Sailing 101" (off in the side frame) I get the impression that
> mizzen would be akin to adding gun ports and other such ephemeraltouches.
I would think that the "boom rise" would mostly occur when running with the
sail well out to the side. The sheets won't provide much down force in
those conditions.
Chebacco has no boomkin. There are two sheets, one to each quarter.
Reading the article on sailinghttp://www.chebacco.com/under "Chebacco
Sailing 101" (off in the side frame) I get the impression that reefing the
mizzen would be akin to adding gun ports and other such ephemeral touches.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
sail well out to the side. The sheets won't provide much down force in
those conditions.
Chebacco has no boomkin. There are two sheets, one to each quarter.
Reading the article on sailinghttp://www.chebacco.com/under "Chebacco
Sailing 101" (off in the side frame) I get the impression that reefing the
mizzen would be akin to adding gun ports and other such ephemeral touches.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "GarthAB" <garth@...>
> I'll have a similar mizzen on Cormorant, though it'll have a boomkin
> to sheet to. (In BWAOM it looks like there's no boomkin on Chebacco.)
> The talk of rotating mizzen masts got me wondering if it's possible to
> somehow mount the snotter lower down, with an attachment to the
> transom rather than on the mast itself? That would enable one to reef
> by rolling the sail around the mast, assuming you added some chocks to
> the mast down by the step or at the partner. The sprit would then have
> a different angle to the sail -- and possibly that would let the sail
> ride up too much at the clew. Though the sheet would hold it down,
> mostly (moreso with the boomkin down there to provide direct downhaul)
> . . .
>
> Is this possible?
I'll have a similar mizzen on Cormorant, though it'll have a boomkin
to sheet to. (In BWAOM it looks like there's no boomkin on Chebacco.)
The talk of rotating mizzen masts got me wondering if it's possible to
somehow mount the snotter lower down, with an attachment to the
transom rather than on the mast itself? That would enable one to reef
by rolling the sail around the mast, assuming you added some chocks to
the mast down by the step or at the partner. The sprit would then have
a different angle to the sail -- and possibly that would let the sail
ride up too much at the clew. Though the sheet would hold it down,
mostly (moreso with the boomkin down there to provide direct downhaul)
. . .
Is this possible?
All best,
Garth
to sheet to. (In BWAOM it looks like there's no boomkin on Chebacco.)
The talk of rotating mizzen masts got me wondering if it's possible to
somehow mount the snotter lower down, with an attachment to the
transom rather than on the mast itself? That would enable one to reef
by rolling the sail around the mast, assuming you added some chocks to
the mast down by the step or at the partner. The sprit would then have
a different angle to the sail -- and possibly that would let the sail
ride up too much at the clew. Though the sheet would hold it down,
mostly (moreso with the boomkin down there to provide direct downhaul)
. . .
Is this possible?
All best,
Garth
Many thanks, all for the help.
Per Bill Samson's and Jamie's comments, I'll make both holes round.
It does seem, from some readings done here and there, that the
snotter wants to turn with the sprit otherwise the sprit sort of gets
twisted about the sail: thus sprit-rigged masts turn. So if the
mizzens'l ever wants to twist, then twist it will.
I took a picture of the mast layed up without the epoxy (a dry run).
No doubt I'll take a few more pictures if and when all come out
fine. For the 13.5' mizzen mast, the number of hose clamps used was
12 and it could probably would have been smart to have used a few
more. 15 would be a good number. I have that many but didn't add
them because a) didn't want to overclamp and starve the joints of
epoxy although this relates perhaps more to clamp tightening than to
number of clamps, and b) placing waxpaper as bond-breaker is right up
there with grinding epoxy as a yukkie job.
The mast components went together easily because of using a good
number (maybe 8 or so) of plywood (left over from the temporary hull
moulds) forms, curved, that the mast sections rested in--just like
the WB mag article shows. BTW, the one thing they did in the article
that I didn't do was to set up a jig for running the mast strips
through the tablesaw for tapering. Instead, I drew lings on the
strips, cut them proud on a bandsaw and finished to 1/2 the line
(yeah, sure!) with a handheld power planer. As an aside, I DID make a
jig to cut the 1:12 scarf joints for the strips. I cut them all on
the tablesaw.
Per Bill Samson's and Jamie's comments, I'll make both holes round.
It does seem, from some readings done here and there, that the
snotter wants to turn with the sprit otherwise the sprit sort of gets
twisted about the sail: thus sprit-rigged masts turn. So if the
mizzens'l ever wants to twist, then twist it will.
I took a picture of the mast layed up without the epoxy (a dry run).
No doubt I'll take a few more pictures if and when all come out
fine. For the 13.5' mizzen mast, the number of hose clamps used was
12 and it could probably would have been smart to have used a few
more. 15 would be a good number. I have that many but didn't add
them because a) didn't want to overclamp and starve the joints of
epoxy although this relates perhaps more to clamp tightening than to
number of clamps, and b) placing waxpaper as bond-breaker is right up
there with grinding epoxy as a yukkie job.
The mast components went together easily because of using a good
number (maybe 8 or so) of plywood (left over from the temporary hull
moulds) forms, curved, that the mast sections rested in--just like
the WB mag article shows. BTW, the one thing they did in the article
that I didn't do was to set up a jig for running the mast strips
through the tablesaw for tapering. Instead, I drew lings on the
strips, cut them proud on a bandsaw and finished to 1/2 the line
(yeah, sure!) with a handheld power planer. As an aside, I DID make a
jig to cut the 1:12 scarf joints for the strips. I cut them all on
the tablesaw.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Hi Dick,
>
> I made both holes circular - there's some advantage in a mizzen
mast that rotates. Means the snotter won't bind so much when you go
about.
>
> Mind you, whether it actually DOES rotate all that much is doubtful!
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: seagulloutb
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:21 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Chebacco mizzen mast question
>
>
> The base of the mizzen mast of the Chebacco, per plans, fits into
a
> square opening at the step. The mast then extends up through
> a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
> lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from
square to
> circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with the
sprit?
> Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?
> Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time
to
> write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
> birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
> Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough
to
> set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there are
> waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast
I'll
> be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insert
stiffeners
> at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)
> wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a
radar
> reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'm
still a
> bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward
to
> hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Dick,
I made both holes circular - there's some advantage in a mizzen mast that rotates. Means the snotter won't bind so much when you go about.
Mind you, whether it actually DOES rotate all that much is doubtful!
Bill
I made both holes circular - there's some advantage in a mizzen mast that rotates. Means the snotter won't bind so much when you go about.
Mind you, whether it actually DOES rotate all that much is doubtful!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: seagulloutb
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:21 AM
Subject: [bolger] Chebacco mizzen mast question
The base of the mizzen mast of the Chebacco, per plans, fits into a
square opening at the step. The mast then extends up through
a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from square to
circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with the sprit?
Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?
Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time to
write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough to
set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there are
waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast I'll
be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insert stiffeners
at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)
wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a radar
reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'm still a
bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward to
hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good question. I hope the experts chime in.
I don't see any harm in making both holes round as I did in the model.
Supposedly if the mast can rotate, the trim change resulting from the
tightening of the snotter would be less, and there aren't any other lines to
be affected.
The only place on the plans where I see a square is in the partner, but
maybe I haven't looked closely enough (I just walked out to the barn and
checked each sheet). I guess that if it's free to rotate, then there ought
to be a "wear pad" under the heel or a shoulder somewhere. Unless someone
comes up with a good argument for making it fixed, I'll make mine free to
swivel.
How many hose clamps did you use and did you build the "alignment jig" shown
in the Wooden Boat article?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
I don't see any harm in making both holes round as I did in the model.
Supposedly if the mast can rotate, the trim change resulting from the
tightening of the snotter would be less, and there aren't any other lines to
be affected.
The only place on the plans where I see a square is in the partner, but
maybe I haven't looked closely enough (I just walked out to the barn and
checked each sheet). I guess that if it's free to rotate, then there ought
to be a "wear pad" under the heel or a shoulder somewhere. Unless someone
comes up with a good argument for making it fixed, I'll make mine free to
swivel.
How many hose clamps did you use and did you build the "alignment jig" shown
in the Wooden Boat article?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@...>
> The base of the mizzen mast of the Chebacco, per plans, fits into a
> square opening at the step. The mast then extends up through
> a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
> lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from square to
> circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with the sprit?
> Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?
> Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time to
> write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
> birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
> Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough to
> set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there are
> waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast I'll
> be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insert stiffeners
> at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)
> wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a radar
> reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'm still a
> bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward to
> hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses
My mizzen mast is round at the base. It fits the holes pretty
closely, tends to stay put unless the wind is strong, then it will
rotate a bit. No noticeable difference in performance either way,
it's more of a balance sail than a driver. The only halyard on it
is the flag halyard, and that is cleated on the mast, so it doesn't
matter if it rotates.
Looking forward to the launching pics.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
wrote:
closely, tends to stay put unless the wind is strong, then it will
rotate a bit. No noticeable difference in performance either way,
it's more of a balance sail than a driver. The only halyard on it
is the flag halyard, and that is cleated on the mast, so it doesn't
matter if it rotates.
Looking forward to the launching pics.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
wrote:
> The base of the mizzen mast of the Chebacco, per plans, fits intoa
> square opening at the step. The mast then extends up throughto
> a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
> lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from square
> circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with thesprit?
> Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?to
> Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time to
> write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
> birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
> Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough
> set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there areI'll
> waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast
> be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insertstiffeners
> at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)radar
> wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a
> reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'mstill a
> bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward to
> hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses
Congratulations - Pictures!
For those of us who are Chebacco deprived what at the dimensions and
what does it weigh?
David
seagulloutb wrote:
For those of us who are Chebacco deprived what at the dimensions and
what does it weigh?
David
seagulloutb wrote:
> The base of the mizzen mast of the Chebacco, per plans, fits into a[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> square opening at the step. The mast then extends up through
> a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
> lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from square to
> circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with the sprit?
> Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?
> Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time to
> write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
> birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
> Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough to
> set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there are
> waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast I'll
> be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insert stiffeners
> at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)
> wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a radar
> reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'm still a
> bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward to
> hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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The base of the mizzen mast of the Chebacco, per plans, fits into a
square opening at the step. The mast then extends up through
a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from square to
circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with the sprit?
Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?
Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time to
write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough to
set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there are
waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast I'll
be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insert stiffeners
at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)
wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a radar
reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'm still a
bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward to
hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses
square opening at the step. The mast then extends up through
a 'partner' which is a 2x9 that spans the 'motor well' going from
lazarette to lazarette. I'm confused about the change from square to
circular. Would this mast want to rotate, should it with the sprit?
Or, as a balancing sail is it to stay in basically one position?
Doesn't it seen that both openings should be the same? No time to
write PCB on this as the mast is now together -- made in the
birdsmouth hollow mast fashion, but "just" as of this afternoon.
Tomorrow or the day after, as and if the weather warms up enough to
set the epoxy I'll be able to part the mast in half as there are
waxpaper bond breakers running through. By opening up the mast I'll
be able to a) epoxy the interior, and b) build and insert stiffeners
at stress points, tip. If it were the main mast I'd also add c)
wires for running lights, and d) crumpled aluminum foil for a radar
reflector. BTW, the hollow mast was a piece of cake (but I'm still a
bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't crumble). Looking forward to
hear from you all this. Thanks! Dick Burnham of Stealing Horses