Re: helpful information
Sorry,that last post went without my signature, and few words to the
peson I was responding to, saying that it is a good idea to sign
posts.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
peson I was responding to, saying that it is a good idea to sign
posts.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
> Your use of the word "salary" implies you are looking for a job,
> rather than starting a business.....
Your use of the word "salary" implies you are looking for a job,
rather than starting a business.
The best place to look for work is obviously with boatbuilders in
your area. Just go around knocking on doors; there is very likely a
shortage of people with your skills. Don't forget that larger
fibreglass, or even aluminium or steel, boats, are usually fitted out
with timber furniture.
rather than starting a business.
The best place to look for work is obviously with boatbuilders in
your area. Just go around knocking on doors; there is very likely a
shortage of people with your skills. Don't forget that larger
fibreglass, or even aluminium or steel, boats, are usually fitted out
with timber furniture.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "riverst20" <riverst20@y...> wrote:
> I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living
> through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
> way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
> please enlighten me if thisis a fairly accurate assumption.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Hi Nels,
You're right, he didn't specify being in business for himself.
However, the dynamics of supply and demand remain the same for biz
owner and employee alike. A lot of people (understandably) are
attracted by the romance of it all - thereby driving down profits and
wages paid. Financially, it might be better to be a plumber,
electrician, proctologist, or...? My advice is the same - make it a
hobby. If, on the other hand, you've touched the sawdust tar-baby (as
I have) go ahead and give it a shot. Be aware, though, of the
realities of the industry you're entering. Go into it with eyes open.
And definitely make sure you have an understanding (and hopefully
wealthy) wife.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Arbor Woodworks
"By all means, marry. If you end up with a good wife, you'll become
happy. If you end up with a bad one, you'll become a philosopher" -
Socrates
>*********************
> I didn't see anywhere that he wants to start his own business?
> Sam Devlin seems to be doing Okay, as well as several yacht builders
> that are often written about in WB. In fact there are a whole list of
> builders and restoration comapanies in WB mag.
>
> Cheers, Nels
Hi Nels,
You're right, he didn't specify being in business for himself.
However, the dynamics of supply and demand remain the same for biz
owner and employee alike. A lot of people (understandably) are
attracted by the romance of it all - thereby driving down profits and
wages paid. Financially, it might be better to be a plumber,
electrician, proctologist, or...? My advice is the same - make it a
hobby. If, on the other hand, you've touched the sawdust tar-baby (as
I have) go ahead and give it a shot. Be aware, though, of the
realities of the industry you're entering. Go into it with eyes open.
And definitely make sure you have an understanding (and hopefully
wealthy) wife.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Arbor Woodworks
"By all means, marry. If you end up with a good wife, you'll become
happy. If you end up with a bad one, you'll become a philosopher" -
Socrates
And for the most part we are free to live as we choose! It's the choices we make on the luxuries we think are necessary that enslaves us.
Hummm, where's my power saw, power sander, coffee pot, automobile, ..............
:>)
Jeff
Hummm, where's my power saw, power sander, coffee pot, automobile, ..............
:>)
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: helpful information
Frankly we shouldn't have to make/earn a living...This is slave
mentality. It is our birthright to have a completely FREE life.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:arbordg@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:08 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: helpful information
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "riverst20" <riverst20@y...> wrote:
> I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living
> through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
> way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
> please enlighten me if this is a fairly accurate assumption.
*****************
Hi,
I'm very sorry to have to join in the refrain, but Mr. Fountain has
nailed it. I own a small architectural millwork company, employing
anywhere from 2 to 6 in the shop. Have been a professional woodworker
- with a couple of small detours into the bike industry and a graduate
program in economics - since 1972. When young woodworkers come to me
with the idea of starting their own business, I am not usually able to
be very encouraging. Their is a market for residential cabinetry.
There is a market for commercial casework & millwork. What Bruce
Fountain says about low pay for high skills applies. There are far too
many people (skilled and knowledgable or not) who want to work in the
industry. There is a neverending supply of people starting up in their
garage. They don't have a clue about their actual costs. They underbid
everyone as a necessary means of gaining a foothold into the market.
Having, typically, very little capital or management experience, they
don't figure out till too late that they're undercharging (and thereby
driving down the prices for most everyone else). Soon they're gone -
only to be replaced by the next bloke with a garage and a tablesaw. If
you can last long enough to develop a good reputation, and a steady
clientele, you are at the next level of challenges.
The good thing about owning your own woodworking business is that you
really only have to work Half-days. And you get to pick WHICH 12
hours. If you're very good, at this level you'll earn slightly less
than you would renting the same skills (as an employee) to an
established shop.
The same dynamic (squared) applies to custom furniture. It's a lot of
fun to build. Very satisfying. Nice clients (mostly). We do some, now
and again, for our architect or interior designer clients. Most
woodworks would relish the prospect of doing furniture full-time.
There are some that make a go of it through some combination of good
design, craftsmanship, marketing savvy, and sheer dumb luck. They're
few and far between. One of the best in our area decided, after 20+
years of what passes for success in that arena, to quit doing
furniture commissions and open a school teaching Fine Woodworking
skills. He's apparently doing better financially and enjoying life more.
Now take this description and up the ante again. That would be my
impression of the market viability of a small business building boats.
If you're serious about making a living as a woodworker, I'd recommend
finding a job in a local cabinet shop. A big shop will give you
narrower, more repetitive tasks - perhaps easier to learn. A small
shop will give you a wider variety of tasks, sooner - quicker learning
if you can keep up. Woodworking is a lot of fun. Challenging, and
satisfying in a lot of ways. All in all, however, I usually recommend
it as a hobby. If you insist, know you'll have lower pay for more
skills along with more job volatility than most other trades.
Hope this rant was helpful. Whatever you decide, good luck!
Sincerely,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Never moon a werewolf" - Mike Binder
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <renueden@e...> wrote:
Nels
> Frankly we shouldn't have to make/earn a living...This is slaveWelcome to Canada:-)
> mentality. It is our birthright to have a completely FREE life.
>
> Ken
>
>
Nels
When young woodworkers come to me
What about sub-contracting or building cabinets and sub-contracting
to boat builders too?
Sam Devlin seems to be doing Okay, as well as several yacht builders
that are often written about in WB. In fact there are a whole list of
builders and restoration comapanies in WB mag.
BTW anybody else enjoy the WB article series on building REDWING?
Cheers, Nels
> with the idea of starting their own business, I am not usually ableto
> be very encouraging.I didn't see anywhere that he wants to start his own business?
What about sub-contracting or building cabinets and sub-contracting
to boat builders too?
Sam Devlin seems to be doing Okay, as well as several yacht builders
that are often written about in WB. In fact there are a whole list of
builders and restoration comapanies in WB mag.
BTW anybody else enjoy the WB article series on building REDWING?
Cheers, Nels
Frankly we shouldn't have to make/earn a living...This is slave
mentality. It is our birthright to have a completely FREE life.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:arbordg@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:08 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: helpful information
mentality. It is our birthright to have a completely FREE life.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:arbordg@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:08 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: helpful information
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "riverst20" <riverst20@y...> wrote:
> I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living
> through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
> way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
> please enlighten me if this is a fairly accurate assumption.
*****************
Hi,
I'm very sorry to have to join in the refrain, but Mr. Fountain has
nailed it. I own a small architectural millwork company, employing
anywhere from 2 to 6 in the shop. Have been a professional woodworker
- with a couple of small detours into the bike industry and a graduate
program in economics - since 1972. When young woodworkers come to me
with the idea of starting their own business, I am not usually able to
be very encouraging. Their is a market for residential cabinetry.
There is a market for commercial casework & millwork. What Bruce
Fountain says about low pay for high skills applies. There are far too
many people (skilled and knowledgable or not) who want to work in the
industry. There is a neverending supply of people starting up in their
garage. They don't have a clue about their actual costs. They underbid
everyone as a necessary means of gaining a foothold into the market.
Having, typically, very little capital or management experience, they
don't figure out till too late that they're undercharging (and thereby
driving down the prices for most everyone else). Soon they're gone -
only to be replaced by the next bloke with a garage and a tablesaw. If
you can last long enough to develop a good reputation, and a steady
clientele, you are at the next level of challenges.
The good thing about owning your own woodworking business is that you
really only have to work Half-days. And you get to pick WHICH 12
hours. If you're very good, at this level you'll earn slightly less
than you would renting the same skills (as an employee) to an
established shop.
The same dynamic (squared) applies to custom furniture. It's a lot of
fun to build. Very satisfying. Nice clients (mostly). We do some, now
and again, for our architect or interior designer clients. Most
woodworks would relish the prospect of doing furniture full-time.
There are some that make a go of it through some combination of good
design, craftsmanship, marketing savvy, and sheer dumb luck. They're
few and far between. One of the best in our area decided, after 20+
years of what passes for success in that arena, to quit doing
furniture commissions and open a school teaching Fine Woodworking
skills. He's apparently doing better financially and enjoying life more.
Now take this description and up the ante again. That would be my
impression of the market viability of a small business building boats.
If you're serious about making a living as a woodworker, I'd recommend
finding a job in a local cabinet shop. A big shop will give you
narrower, more repetitive tasks - perhaps easier to learn. A small
shop will give you a wider variety of tasks, sooner - quicker learning
if you can keep up. Woodworking is a lot of fun. Challenging, and
satisfying in a lot of ways. All in all, however, I usually recommend
it as a hobby. If you insist, know you'll have lower pay for more
skills along with more job volatility than most other trades.
Hope this rant was helpful. Whatever you decide, good luck!
Sincerely,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Never moon a werewolf" - Mike Binder
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129b1de7s/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/
D=groups/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1096643378/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*htt
p://companion.yahoo.com> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=group
s/S=:HM/A=2128215/rand=546167890>
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "riverst20" <riverst20@y...> wrote:
Hi,
I'm very sorry to have to join in the refrain, but Mr. Fountain has
nailed it. I own a small architectural millwork company, employing
anywhere from 2 to 6 in the shop. Have been a professional woodworker
- with a couple of small detours into the bike industry and a graduate
program in economics - since 1972. When young woodworkers come to me
with the idea of starting their own business, I am not usually able to
be very encouraging. Their is a market for residential cabinetry.
There is a market for commercial casework & millwork. What Bruce
Fountain says about low pay for high skills applies. There are far too
many people (skilled and knowledgable or not) who want to work in the
industry. There is a neverending supply of people starting up in their
garage. They don't have a clue about their actual costs. They underbid
everyone as a necessary means of gaining a foothold into the market.
Having, typically, very little capital or management experience, they
don't figure out till too late that they're undercharging (and thereby
driving down the prices for most everyone else). Soon they're gone -
only to be replaced by the next bloke with a garage and a tablesaw. If
you can last long enough to develop a good reputation, and a steady
clientele, you are at the next level of challenges.
The good thing about owning your own woodworking business is that you
really only have to work Half-days. And you get to pick WHICH 12
hours. If you're very good, at this level you'll earn slightly less
than you would renting the same skills (as an employee) to an
established shop.
The same dynamic (squared) applies to custom furniture. It's a lot of
fun to build. Very satisfying. Nice clients (mostly). We do some, now
and again, for our architect or interior designer clients. Most
woodworks would relish the prospect of doing furniture full-time.
There are some that make a go of it through some combination of good
design, craftsmanship, marketing savvy, and sheer dumb luck. They're
few and far between. One of the best in our area decided, after 20+
years of what passes for success in that arena, to quit doing
furniture commissions and open a school teaching Fine Woodworking
skills. He's apparently doing better financially and enjoying life more.
Now take this description and up the ante again. That would be my
impression of the market viability of a small business building boats.
If you're serious about making a living as a woodworker, I'd recommend
finding a job in a local cabinet shop. A big shop will give you
narrower, more repetitive tasks - perhaps easier to learn. A small
shop will give you a wider variety of tasks, sooner - quicker learning
if you can keep up. Woodworking is a lot of fun. Challenging, and
satisfying in a lot of ways. All in all, however, I usually recommend
it as a hobby. If you insist, know you'll have lower pay for more
skills along with more job volatility than most other trades.
Hope this rant was helpful. Whatever you decide, good luck!
Sincerely,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Never moon a werewolf" - Mike Binder
> I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living*****************
> through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
> way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
> please enlighten me if this is a fairly accurate assumption.
Hi,
I'm very sorry to have to join in the refrain, but Mr. Fountain has
nailed it. I own a small architectural millwork company, employing
anywhere from 2 to 6 in the shop. Have been a professional woodworker
- with a couple of small detours into the bike industry and a graduate
program in economics - since 1972. When young woodworkers come to me
with the idea of starting their own business, I am not usually able to
be very encouraging. Their is a market for residential cabinetry.
There is a market for commercial casework & millwork. What Bruce
Fountain says about low pay for high skills applies. There are far too
many people (skilled and knowledgable or not) who want to work in the
industry. There is a neverending supply of people starting up in their
garage. They don't have a clue about their actual costs. They underbid
everyone as a necessary means of gaining a foothold into the market.
Having, typically, very little capital or management experience, they
don't figure out till too late that they're undercharging (and thereby
driving down the prices for most everyone else). Soon they're gone -
only to be replaced by the next bloke with a garage and a tablesaw. If
you can last long enough to develop a good reputation, and a steady
clientele, you are at the next level of challenges.
The good thing about owning your own woodworking business is that you
really only have to work Half-days. And you get to pick WHICH 12
hours. If you're very good, at this level you'll earn slightly less
than you would renting the same skills (as an employee) to an
established shop.
The same dynamic (squared) applies to custom furniture. It's a lot of
fun to build. Very satisfying. Nice clients (mostly). We do some, now
and again, for our architect or interior designer clients. Most
woodworks would relish the prospect of doing furniture full-time.
There are some that make a go of it through some combination of good
design, craftsmanship, marketing savvy, and sheer dumb luck. They're
few and far between. One of the best in our area decided, after 20+
years of what passes for success in that arena, to quit doing
furniture commissions and open a school teaching Fine Woodworking
skills. He's apparently doing better financially and enjoying life more.
Now take this description and up the ante again. That would be my
impression of the market viability of a small business building boats.
If you're serious about making a living as a woodworker, I'd recommend
finding a job in a local cabinet shop. A big shop will give you
narrower, more repetitive tasks - perhaps easier to learn. A small
shop will give you a wider variety of tasks, sooner - quicker learning
if you can keep up. Woodworking is a lot of fun. Challenging, and
satisfying in a lot of ways. All in all, however, I usually recommend
it as a hobby. If you insist, know you'll have lower pay for more
skills along with more job volatility than most other trades.
Hope this rant was helpful. Whatever you decide, good luck!
Sincerely,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Never moon a werewolf" - Mike Binder
riverst20 wrote:
a decent cabinet maker (or even a construction carpenter).
As far as I can tell, boatbuilding requires more skills and
returns less money than any other carpentry profession.
Of course, there will be regional differences. Maybe there
is high demand for wooden boat shipwrights in your area
(hey, we can dream can't we?).
Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a livingAll the shipwrights I have ever met make less money than
> through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
> way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
> please enlighten me if thisis a fairly accurate assumption.
a decent cabinet maker (or even a construction carpenter).
As far as I can tell, boatbuilding requires more skills and
returns less money than any other carpentry profession.
Of course, there will be regional differences. Maybe there
is high demand for wooden boat shipwrights in your area
(hey, we can dream can't we?).
Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, if you really want to starve to death, get into the aviation game. If
that's too brutal, boatbuilding might work.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
that's too brutal, boatbuilding might work.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "riverst20" <riverst20@...>
>I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living
> through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
> way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
> please enlighten me if thisis a fairly accurate assumption.
The best way to make a small fortune building boats is to start with a large
one...
Or so they say.
Questions:
- What's going to sell?
- Who's going to buy them?
- How large is your market?
- How will you reach them?
- How much will it sell for?
- What will it cost to make (time, materials, tooling)?
- At the end of the day, will you sell enough units at enough of a profit to
make a go at it?
one...
Or so they say.
Questions:
- What's going to sell?
- Who's going to buy them?
- How large is your market?
- How will you reach them?
- How much will it sell for?
- What will it cost to make (time, materials, tooling)?
- At the end of the day, will you sell enough units at enough of a profit to
make a go at it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "riverst20" <riverst20@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: [bolger] helpful information
| I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living
| through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
| way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
| please enlighten me if thisis a fairly accurate assumption.
|
|
I am a woodworking enthusiast who would like to make a living
through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
please enlighten me if thisis a fairly accurate assumption.
through my craft. I have decided that boatbuilding might be a good
way to do what I love while earning a decent salary. Could someone
please enlighten me if thisis a fairly accurate assumption.