Re: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
There is a scene in the video "One the Ways at Wallace and Sons" (or whatever it's called, a great video of guys building a schooner on a budget) Anyway the interviewer asks a question about what do they do when they encounter a problem. The old boy says something to the effect that they just keep abuildin' until they work their way out of the problem..
Go Jason, go! We're all cheering for you...
Rick
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
We all make mistakes. Sometimes we can ignore them, sometimes we can fix them, and sometimes we have to trash our work and start over (which is where small boats are a good thing--the messed up piece is usually small enough to burn easily!). Alas, been there and done all of that.
John T
Go Jason, go! We're all cheering for you...
Rick
"John B. Trussell" <John.Trussell@...> wrote:
We all make mistakes. Sometimes we can ignore them, sometimes we can fix them, and sometimes we have to trash our work and start over (which is where small boats are a good thing--the messed up piece is usually small enough to burn easily!). Alas, been there and done all of that.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Stancil
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:56 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> Jason you definitely take the unofficial Bolger Group
> Builder-Entertainer of the Month Award!
I am to displease :)
Jason
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We all make mistakes. Sometimes we can ignore them, sometimes we can fix them, and sometimes we have to trash our work and start over (which is where small boats are a good thing--the messed up piece is usually small enough to burn easily!). Alas, been there and done all of that.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Stancil
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:56 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> Jason you definitely take the unofficial Bolger Group
> Builder-Entertainer of the Month Award!
I am to displease :)
Jason
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
Jason
> Jason you definitely take the unofficial Bolger GroupI am to displease :)
> Builder-Entertainer of the Month Award!
Jason
Jason you definitely take the unofficial Bolger Group
Builder-Entertainer of the Month Award!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Stancil [mailto:jasonstancil@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 8:20
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
beside it and even a cooler but i don't usually sit there as it's
hard to gain access with my rump on top. Oh yeah and the milk crates
all over, sometime seats sometimes jack stands/safety devices when
i'm under that monster. Seriously, i sit stare aimlessly at it more
than i build.
Jason
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Builder-Entertainer of the Month Award!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Stancil [mailto:jasonstancil@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 8:20
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
> You have heard that all boatbuildersHeh, two in the boat, one overhead on the porch, one on the ground
> need a moaning chair?
beside it and even a cooler but i don't usually sit there as it's
hard to gain access with my rump on top. Oh yeah and the milk crates
all over, sometime seats sometimes jack stands/safety devices when
i'm under that monster. Seriously, i sit stare aimlessly at it more
than i build.
Jason
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Hi Jason,
If you can heat the epoxy lead it will become soft ?
Rob B
Oz
If you can heat the epoxy lead it will become soft ?
Rob B
Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Stancil
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 3:51 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
Oh yeah, First major mistake to date. The keel will not fit the
batten properly. Had 2 folks from next door myself and a girlfriend
winching, prying, cursing, and hammering. We got it up and in place
but the twist is evident and totally unacceptible to me. It won't
straighten out (i think) because the ballast is epoxy lead and won't
bend like a lead pour will. Yet another reason to follow directions,
blah, blah blah!
Scratching my head, going to go boating and think about it.
Jason the lateral resistance challanged
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> You have heard that all boatbuildersHeh, two in the boat, one overhead on the porch, one on the ground
> need a moaning chair?
beside it and even a cooler but i don't usually sit there as it's
hard to gain access with my rump on top. Oh yeah and the milk crates
all over, sometime seats sometimes jack stands/safety devices when
i'm under that monster. Seriously, i sit stare aimlessly at it more
than i build.
Jason
> I feel much betterYou have heard that all boatbuilders
> now. I'll redo it next weekend i guess.
need a moaning chair?
That will be fine Jason.
Really the front 4ft of keel is there to protect the bottom, and
lets you snug up to rocks, shoals and failing trailer rollers.
Good to hear you knocked it on the chin,
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
Really the front 4ft of keel is there to protect the bottom, and
lets you snug up to rocks, shoals and failing trailer rollers.
Good to hear you knocked it on the chin,
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
>foot
> Thanks for everyones thoughts an ideas. I couldn't stand this kink
> in my baby (4.5" off at the bow batten tip). I cut the front 4
> off the keel today in a fit of sadistic rage. I feel much better
> now. I'll redo it next weekend i guess.
He also turns on a dime:}
DonB
DonB
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "scott backen" <440ford@v...> wrote:
> Did you ever see a male killer whale? Check out the dorsal fin ...
a big crooked keel, it looks like it works just fine. And nobody
ever told the killer whale he looked funny! Anyway you cant see the
keel in the water.
>
> Scott Backen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Derby
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 6:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
>
>
> Being a person with little faith when it comes to fluid
dynamics, I sure
> would like to have you sail it before and after the fix.
>
> When the boat heels, it becomes quite asymmetrical. Some boats
can be
> steered by heel and fore-and-aft trim. You might not notice the
difference,
> particularly if your paint scheme made it unobtrusive on the
trailer.
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@s...
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@h...>
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps the simplest fix is to just fair out the
> > crooked spots with epoxy and filler or plywood
> > lamate, ending up with a thicker fin. Some more
> > work, but not a disaster either.
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for everyones thoughts an ideas. I couldn't stand this kink
in my baby (4.5" off at the bow batten tip). I cut the front 4 foot
off the keel today in a fit of sadistic rage. I feel much better
now. I'll redo it next weekend i guess.
in my baby (4.5" off at the bow batten tip). I cut the front 4 foot
off the keel today in a fit of sadistic rage. I feel much better
now. I'll redo it next weekend i guess.
Did you ever see a male killer whale? Check out the dorsal fin ... a big crooked keel, it looks like it works just fine. And nobody ever told the killer whale he looked funny! Anyway you cant see the keel in the water.
Scott Backen
Scott Backen
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Derby
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Doh! Keel!!!!!!
Being a person with little faith when it comes to fluid dynamics, I sure
would like to have you sail it before and after the fix.
When the boat heels, it becomes quite asymmetrical. Some boats can be
steered by heel and fore-and-aft trim. You might not notice the difference,
particularly if your paint scheme made it unobtrusive on the trailer.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
>
> Perhaps the simplest fix is to just fair out the
> crooked spots with epoxy and filler or plywood
> lamate, ending up with a thicker fin. Some more
> work, but not a disaster either.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason,
Don's probably on the right track here, but to clarify are you trying to fit the keel assembly "as is" to the batten or do you want to attached a straightened keel assembly to the hull? Either will work, but require different solutions. No sense offering advice on a direction you don't want to persue...
Also is the keel kinked forward of the lead in one place, or is it a gentle sweep to one side forward of the lead? And how far out of straight is it?
Rick
dbaldnz <oink@...> wrote:
Jason, your first post said the twist was forward of the lead, in
the shallower deadwood area. So your lead must be straight.
(actually, a poured lead keel is probably more likely to 'creep'
than your composite one.)
If it's just the deadwood, can't you pull the screws, and plane and
fill the deadwood? Or cut the front twisted piece off, fix the lead
keel in place, and glue strips of timber in place to make up the
original profile?
DonB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don's probably on the right track here, but to clarify are you trying to fit the keel assembly "as is" to the batten or do you want to attached a straightened keel assembly to the hull? Either will work, but require different solutions. No sense offering advice on a direction you don't want to persue...
Also is the keel kinked forward of the lead in one place, or is it a gentle sweep to one side forward of the lead? And how far out of straight is it?
Rick
dbaldnz <oink@...> wrote:
Jason, your first post said the twist was forward of the lead, in
the shallower deadwood area. So your lead must be straight.
(actually, a poured lead keel is probably more likely to 'creep'
than your composite one.)
If it's just the deadwood, can't you pull the screws, and plane and
fill the deadwood? Or cut the front twisted piece off, fix the lead
keel in place, and glue strips of timber in place to make up the
original profile?
DonB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Being a person with little faith when it comes to fluid dynamics, I sure
would like to have you sail it before and after the fix.
When the boat heels, it becomes quite asymmetrical. Some boats can be
steered by heel and fore-and-aft trim. You might not notice the difference,
particularly if your paint scheme made it unobtrusive on the trailer.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
would like to have you sail it before and after the fix.
When the boat heels, it becomes quite asymmetrical. Some boats can be
steered by heel and fore-and-aft trim. You might not notice the difference,
particularly if your paint scheme made it unobtrusive on the trailer.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
>
> Perhaps the simplest fix is to just fair out the
> crooked spots with epoxy and filler or plywood
> lamate, ending up with a thicker fin. Some more
> work, but not a disaster either.
Perhaps the simplest fix is to just fair out the
crooked spots with epoxy and filler or plywood
lamate, ending up with a thicker fin. Some more
work, but not a disaster either.
crooked spots with epoxy and filler or plywood
lamate, ending up with a thicker fin. Some more
work, but not a disaster either.
If the epoxy/lead part is warped, you can get the epoxy to soften if you
heat it up, probably someplace in the vicinity of 150 to 200 degrees F.
heat it up, probably someplace in the vicinity of 150 to 200 degrees F.
>Jason Stancil wrote:
>
>
>Oh yeah, First major mistake to date. The keel will not fit the
>batten properly. Had 2 folks from next door myself and a girlfriend
>winching, prying, cursing, and hammering. We got it up and in place
>but the twist is evident and totally unacceptible to me. It won't
>straighten out (i think) because the ballast is epoxy lead and won't
>bend like a lead pour will. Yet another reason to follow directions,
>blah, blah blah!
>
>Scratching my head, going to go boating and think about it.
>
>Jason the lateral resistance challanged
>
Jason, your first post said the twist was forward of the lead, in
the shallower deadwood area. So your lead must be straight.
(actually, a poured lead keel is probably more likely to 'creep'
than your composite one.)
If it's just the deadwood, can't you pull the screws, and plane and
fill the deadwood? Or cut the front twisted piece off, fix the lead
keel in place, and glue strips of timber in place to make up the
original profile?
DonB
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
the shallower deadwood area. So your lead must be straight.
(actually, a poured lead keel is probably more likely to 'creep'
than your composite one.)
If it's just the deadwood, can't you pull the screws, and plane and
fill the deadwood? Or cut the front twisted piece off, fix the lead
keel in place, and glue strips of timber in place to make up the
original profile?
DonB
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
>girlfriend
> Oh yeah, First major mistake to date. The keel will not fit the
> batten properly. Had 2 folks from next door myself and a
> winching, prying, cursing, and hammering. We got it up and inplace
> but the twist is evident and totally unacceptible to me. It won'twon't
> straighten out (i think) because the ballast is epoxy lead and
> bend like a lead pour will. Yet another reason to followdirections,
> blah, blah blah!
>
> Scratching my head, going to go boating and think about it.
>
> Jason the lateral resistance challanged
Oh yeah, First major mistake to date. The keel will not fit the
batten properly. Had 2 folks from next door myself and a girlfriend
winching, prying, cursing, and hammering. We got it up and in place
but the twist is evident and totally unacceptible to me. It won't
straighten out (i think) because the ballast is epoxy lead and won't
bend like a lead pour will. Yet another reason to follow directions,
blah, blah blah!
Scratching my head, going to go boating and think about it.
Jason the lateral resistance challanged
batten properly. Had 2 folks from next door myself and a girlfriend
winching, prying, cursing, and hammering. We got it up and in place
but the twist is evident and totally unacceptible to me. It won't
straighten out (i think) because the ballast is epoxy lead and won't
bend like a lead pour will. Yet another reason to follow directions,
blah, blah blah!
Scratching my head, going to go boating and think about it.
Jason the lateral resistance challanged
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
lots of fastners so it would hold nice and tight too eh?
I would go back to plan "A" and force it into place on the keel
batten. The keel is so shallow up that far forward you won't even
notice once you've had a couple cool ones:-)
All the best Jason. Admire your tenacity and determination.
Send pictures once you are finished:-)
Cheers, Nels
wrote:
> To further clarify my stupidity: When i installed the secondtweaked.
> sheathing half to the deadwood i gave the ply a little....ok a
> heafty tug to line up the two halves. At the time no problem. I
> guess my submersible basement acted as a monster steam bender after
> the epoxy cured......it held it's shape for a week before it
>Ahhhhh so you tortured your poor keel as well. And I bet you put in
> Jason
lots of fastners so it would hold nice and tight too eh?
I would go back to plan "A" and force it into place on the keel
batten. The keel is so shallow up that far forward you won't even
notice once you've had a couple cool ones:-)
All the best Jason. Admire your tenacity and determination.
Send pictures once you are finished:-)
Cheers, Nels
>it to co-operate and stop this leeboard nonsense!
> You are just going to have to treat your keel better if you want
********************
Don't tempt me too put a chainsaw to this evil 450lbs monster and
make a leeboard out of it
> First we need more details. What is it that is warped? How wet isthe plywood? Is the lead shot epoxy area warped at all? I am
wondering if you can lay it flat and put weight on the warped area
forcing it to straighten?
**********************
The twist starts forward of the casting and stops where it becomes
all timber towards the forward end. Does that make sense? It's
laying flat now, almost lost my fingers flipping it off the wall.
> what kind of shoe did you install?glass, i never got to the sides so that's how the water soaked in,
it's dry now.
> If it is only a small amount - ignore it. You can tune it out with************************
> the mizzen. Oooops just realized you don't have a mizzen:-(
GRRRRRRRRR ;)
To further clarify my stupidity: When i installed the second
sheathing half to the deadwood i gave the ply a little....ok a
heafty tug to line up the two halves. At the time no problem. I
guess my submersible basement acted as a monster steam bender after
the epoxy cured......it held it's shape for a week before it tweaked.
Jason
I warped a new daggerboard once by leaving it out in the sun before
I'd properly sealed the timber. I fixed it by just flipping it over
and keeping an eye on it. So you might correct the problem by doing
what you did to the other side of the board, including reproducig the
humidity, but not necessarily the hurricane. Get some epoxy, paint or
varnish on it as soon as it's symmetrical again.
Howard
I'd properly sealed the timber. I fixed it by just flipping it over
and keeping an eye on it. So you might correct the problem by doing
what you did to the other side of the board, including reproducig the
humidity, but not necessarily the hurricane. Get some epoxy, paint or
varnish on it as soon as it's symmetrical again.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
> wrote:
> >> Seriously, suggestions would be appreciated as sailing in
circles
> > wasn't what i had in mind when i started this project.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jason
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
You are just going to have to treat your keel better if you want it
to co-operate and stop this leeboard nonsense!
First we need more details. What is it that is warped? How wet is the
plywood? Is the lead shot epoxy area warped at all? I am wondering if
you can lay it flat and put weight on the warped area forcing it to
straighten? Otherwise the forward end of the deadwood will likely
have to be replaced, which means a scarf of some kind. What kind of
shoe did you install? You might have to put another layer of plywood
on and then you will end up with a wider, but stronger keel.
If it is only a small amount - ignore it. You can tune it out with
the mizzen. Oooops just realized you don't have a mizzen:-(
Move over and share the moaning chair and hand me a brew while I
contemplate. Nels
wrote:
>> Seriously, suggestions would be appreciated as sailing in circlesJason,
> wasn't what i had in mind when i started this project.
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
> PS should have stuck some leeboards on her.
You are just going to have to treat your keel better if you want it
to co-operate and stop this leeboard nonsense!
First we need more details. What is it that is warped? How wet is the
plywood? Is the lead shot epoxy area warped at all? I am wondering if
you can lay it flat and put weight on the warped area forcing it to
straighten? Otherwise the forward end of the deadwood will likely
have to be replaced, which means a scarf of some kind. What kind of
shoe did you install? You might have to put another layer of plywood
on and then you will end up with a wider, but stronger keel.
If it is only a small amount - ignore it. You can tune it out with
the mizzen. Oooops just realized you don't have a mizzen:-(
Move over and share the moaning chair and hand me a brew while I
contemplate. Nels
I get home this evening to look at the keel, tom. was/is going to be
the big day. Hurricanes have kept the basement, shall we say moist
and since that monster hunk o' wood and lead was leaning against a
leaky cinderblock wall with all the weight bearing on one side. The
freaking thing has warped. A good bit to. Forward of the casting but
before the deadwood gets solid it twisted off to starboard.
Has anyone else seen this kind of thing before? Think if i beat it
onto the batten it will true up?
Seriously, suggestions would be appreciated as sailing in circles
wasn't what i had in mind when i started this project.
Thanks,
Jason
PS should have stuck some leeboards on her.
the big day. Hurricanes have kept the basement, shall we say moist
and since that monster hunk o' wood and lead was leaning against a
leaky cinderblock wall with all the weight bearing on one side. The
freaking thing has warped. A good bit to. Forward of the casting but
before the deadwood gets solid it twisted off to starboard.
Has anyone else seen this kind of thing before? Think if i beat it
onto the batten it will true up?
Seriously, suggestions would be appreciated as sailing in circles
wasn't what i had in mind when i started this project.
Thanks,
Jason
PS should have stuck some leeboards on her.