Re: Bolger Retriever Lines/Photos and a QUESTION
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:The surface-piercing hull is another option or, to take that idea to
> "I think the only method of avoiding pounding at speed it to have
> your boat hull be long enough to span several crests of the waves.
> Or, by lifting the hull out of the water with foils."
its extreme, a nuclear sumarine that can do 40 kts or so submerged.
Howard
A long time ago, our outfit (GE) did a "flight control" for a Seattle
hydrofoil ferry. We measured the oncoming seas with an airborne sonar and
adjusted the foils to smooth the ride. I guess you could say the sensing
was kind of batty.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
hydrofoil ferry. We measured the oncoming seas with an airborne sonar and
adjusted the foils to smooth the ride. I guess you could say the sensing
was kind of batty.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@...>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> "I think the only method of avoiding pounding at speed it to have
> your boat hull be long enough to span several crests of the waves.
> Or, by lifting the hull out of the water with foils."
>
> I think you're on to something here Bruce H. (the other Bruce H).
>
> As to the foils, yep. A hydrofoil does not pound. But will smash
> it's light weight shell to pieces if it encounters a wave high enough
> and steep enough that it's aircraft type construction hull and
> superstucture hit a gazillion tons of solid mean green at 70 knots.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
"I think the only method of avoiding pounding at speed it to have
your boat hull be long enough to span several crests of the waves.
Or, by lifting the hull out of the water with foils."
I think you're on to something here Bruce H. (the other Bruce H).
Warships such as destroyers and aircraft carriers do not plane at any
speed, even 35 plus knots. (40 mph)
But they can sure pound into a head sea. Bury their massive bows
beneath tons of solid water. Shake everything loose and make you
spill your grog. Make all the little aluminum planes on deck corrode
to the tune of millions of bucks of needed corrosion repair.
We sometimes forget that our little boats are behaving like big boats
would in relative sized seas.
As to the foils, yep. A hydrofoil does not pound. But will smash
it's light weight shell to pieces if it encounters a wave high enough
and steep enough that it's aircraft type construction hull and
superstucture hit a gazillion tons of solid mean green at 70 knots.
Oops.
Bruce H.
Hector that is.
> Does this pounding still occur in other sharpie type hullsDeep-vee hulls will also pound when planing, and
> equipped with the cutwater type of bow, like the latest sneakeasy
> design or the Champlain. Would this cutwater design reduce hull
> pounding at anchor as compared to a standard sharpie hull in boat like
> an Idaho? Or is it Sharpie hull equals hull pounding, period?
> Kevin
are wetter too.
I think the only method of avoiding pounding at
speed it to have your boat hull be long enough to
span several crests of the waves. Or, by lifting the
hull out of the water with foils.
The Champlain does not plane, and would not pound.
Watervan is another planing box boat with cutwater,
and PB&F wrote about the pounding as follows:
"A hull like this is very dry. The
sharp-lined cutwater doesn't make much spray,
and what it does make is trapped under the
flat hull. There are shallow skids along the
outside edges of the bottom to retain some of
the air that would otherwise be forced out at
the sides. The boat rides on a cushion of foam
trapped on each side of the box keel. There is
actually some cushioning effect; in spite of the
large flat areas, these hulls are less noisy and
rough riding than most in choppy water, in-
cluding many deep-vee hulls with big, flat
strakes and spray deflectors. This is not to
claim that they are quiet or smooth! That is
not doable on these proportions at these speeds
on an uneven surface like water, except by
means of foils, which have their own draw-
backs."
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Chrissy" <jager6863@s...>
wrote:
The"knife edge" you refer to occurs is only the vertical axis
and only all the way up front.Hard to get thin air to pound :-) You
are correct,however, in concluding that it is rather from the
flat,horizontal,panels extending outward from the box keel which
will resonate from contact with waves.....pounding being most
evident at speed.
Presently,there is available a fillet piece option available for
the Champlain design and the Retriever.I don't if one is yet
available for the box-keeled Sneakeasy or if one is even necessary
since the Sneakeasy is intended for day trips and at a nice clip....
The box-keel(or box-cutwater) main purpose is to provide greater
bouyance up forward on what would otherwise be a relatively narrow
sharpie hull shape and allows for placing greater weights up forward
then would normally be tollerated in narrow fine nosed hulls.
You may wish to check here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/WINDERMERE/
for a view of how the fillet pieces soften considerably the
otherwise bold angles created with a box-keel on a sharpie hull
platform.Scroll down a bit near the bottom for details of a fillet
piece installation,as per Phil Bolger.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder and still P.O'd at not being able
to make it to the Maryland show and help relieve the local pubs of
their excess litres,despite what I am certain were Le Baron de
Kingstons noble attempts at same.............
wrote:
> I was also really surprised to read about the hull pounding evenwith
> the knife edged "cutwater" type bow of these boats.Kevin,
The"knife edge" you refer to occurs is only the vertical axis
and only all the way up front.Hard to get thin air to pound :-) You
are correct,however, in concluding that it is rather from the
flat,horizontal,panels extending outward from the box keel which
will resonate from contact with waves.....pounding being most
evident at speed.
Presently,there is available a fillet piece option available for
the Champlain design and the Retriever.I don't if one is yet
available for the box-keeled Sneakeasy or if one is even necessary
since the Sneakeasy is intended for day trips and at a nice clip....
The box-keel(or box-cutwater) main purpose is to provide greater
bouyance up forward on what would otherwise be a relatively narrow
sharpie hull shape and allows for placing greater weights up forward
then would normally be tollerated in narrow fine nosed hulls.
You may wish to check here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/WINDERMERE/
for a view of how the fillet pieces soften considerably the
otherwise bold angles created with a box-keel on a sharpie hull
platform.Scroll down a bit near the bottom for details of a fillet
piece installation,as per Phil Bolger.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder and still P.O'd at not being able
to make it to the Maryland show and help relieve the local pubs of
their excess litres,despite what I am certain were Le Baron de
Kingstons noble attempts at same.............
Thanks Rav, the Retriever files were very helpful.
Retriever is a really, really big boat compared to the Microtrawler,
3300 lbs. vs 1100 lbs, WOW. That extra 8 feet of length on the
Retriever (same beam width) really up'd the displacement compared to
the Microtrawler.
I was also really surprised to read about the hull pounding even with
the knife edged "cutwater" type bow of these boats. I imagine the
pounding is caused by the large flat bottom on both sides of the box
keel. Does this pounding still occur in other sharpie type hulls
equipped with the cutwater type of bow, like the latest sneakeasy
design or the Champlain. Would this cutwater design reduce hull
pounding at anchor as compared to a standard sharpie hull in boat like
an Idaho? Or is it Sharpie hull equals hull pounding, period?
Thanks,
Kevin
Retriever is a really, really big boat compared to the Microtrawler,
3300 lbs. vs 1100 lbs, WOW. That extra 8 feet of length on the
Retriever (same beam width) really up'd the displacement compared to
the Microtrawler.
I was also really surprised to read about the hull pounding even with
the knife edged "cutwater" type bow of these boats. I imagine the
pounding is caused by the large flat bottom on both sides of the box
keel. Does this pounding still occur in other sharpie type hulls
equipped with the cutwater type of bow, like the latest sneakeasy
design or the Champlain. Would this cutwater design reduce hull
pounding at anchor as compared to a standard sharpie hull in boat like
an Idaho? Or is it Sharpie hull equals hull pounding, period?
Thanks,
Kevin
> Look in Bolger4> FILES> Retriever>
>
> Rav
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Chrissy" <jager6863@s...>
wrote:
Look in Bolger4> FILES> Retriever>
Rav
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/
wrote:
>Bolger
> Does anyone have the lines drawings or detailed photos of the
> Retriever.Kevin et al,
Look in Bolger4> FILES> Retriever>
Rav
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Chrissy" <jager6863@s...> wrote:
1996 and August 15, 1998 issues. The first shows drawings and gives a
description, while the second describes two being built, along with
pictures. Rettriever is very much a Maxi-Microtrawler. It is laid
out pretty much like Microtrwler put with much more room at 22'6" in
length.
There is a portable head in the bow, followed by a pilothouse with the
helm to starboard and the galley port. Aft of that is a cabin with a
setee/berth on each side.
Ralph
>There are articles on Retriever in "Messing abut in Boats" September
> Does anyone have the lines drawings or detailed photos of the Bolger
> Retriever. I know there is one small photo in the Bolger Microtrawler
> group, but details are impossible to see. I'm very interested in how
> this design compares with the Bolger Microtrawler. Please post any
> information you have on this design, all help is appreciated.
1996 and August 15, 1998 issues. The first shows drawings and gives a
description, while the second describes two being built, along with
pictures. Rettriever is very much a Maxi-Microtrawler. It is laid
out pretty much like Microtrwler put with much more room at 22'6" in
length.
There is a portable head in the bow, followed by a pilothouse with the
helm to starboard and the galley port. Aft of that is a cabin with a
setee/berth on each side.
Ralph
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ravenouspi" <ravenous@g...> wrote:
Topaz being built. Not from Florida, but the author even promises to
email futher information to anyone enquiring.
Howard
> RavPlenty of good pics. athttp://jboats.weblogger.com/mostly of a
> Still waiting patiently for TOPAZ pictures from Florida or anywhere
> else.
Topaz being built. Not from Florida, but the author even promises to
email futher information to anyone enquiring.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ravenouspi" <ravenous@g...> wrote:
Topaz being built. Not from Florida, but the author even promise to
email futher information to anyone enquiring.
Howard
> RavPlenty of good pics. athttp://jboats.weblogger.com/mostly of a
> Still waiting patiently for TOPAZ pictures from Florida or anywhere
> else.
Topaz being built. Not from Florida, but the author even promise to
email futher information to anyone enquiring.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Chrissy" <jager6863@s...>
wrote:
I do. I'll try to scan and post them tomorrow.
Rav
Still waiting patiently for TOPAZ pictures from Florida or anywhere
else.
wrote:
>Bolger
> Does anyone have the lines drawings or detailed photos of the
I do. I'll try to scan and post them tomorrow.
Rav
Still waiting patiently for TOPAZ pictures from Florida or anywhere
else.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Chrissy" <jager6863@s...>
wrote:
by searching on these two words, without inverted commas, in Google
Images.
Howard
-- who has a modified Retriever, but not by Bolger
wrote:
>Those with a sense of humour can see a photo of a "Bolger retriever"
> Does anyone have the lines drawings or detailed photos of the Bolger
> Retriever.
by searching on these two words, without inverted commas, in Google
Images.
Howard
-- who has a modified Retriever, but not by Bolger
Does anyone have the lines drawings or detailed photos of the Bolger
Retriever. I know there is one small photo in the Bolger Microtrawler
group, but details are impossible to see. I'm very interested in how
this design compares with the Bolger Microtrawler. Please post any
information you have on this design, all help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Kevin
Pasadena, California
Retriever. I know there is one small photo in the Bolger Microtrawler
group, but details are impossible to see. I'm very interested in how
this design compares with the Bolger Microtrawler. Please post any
information you have on this design, all help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Kevin
Pasadena, California